London Riots

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Krisken

Krisken

Those extended clips aren't mods, Ash. They are manufacturers who make them that way. The big deal is that an enthusiast really has no problem reloading at the firing range, so what is the point of 30+ bullets in a magazine other than 'kill as much as possible before reloading'?

As I said, I'm not anti-gun. I just find very few people responsible enough to carry the things in public settings.
 
strawman

strawman

I don't mean to be insulting, it's just a perspective I cannot grasp. Guns are not inherently dangerous. It's not like saying, "Unstable dynamite is terrifying and I wish fewer people carried it" - in which case I'd agree with you.

Cars are similar to guns in terms of deadliness, but I don't expect you to say the same thing about cars.

What your statement tells me is, "Humans are terrifying and I would be more comfortable if as few of them were around me as possible."

But I am not you. While I don't own any guns, they are merely tools. The difference between a gun an my pocket knife is that while I can use my pocket knive for a variety of tasks during the day, the only task a gun is good for is killing another human being, or threatening to do so.

If you hang out with humans that are likely to want to threaten to kill you, or kill you, then yes - restricting guns makes sense. I don't run across those sort of humans often, though, so I can't quite grasp the significance of your statement.

I have been robbed at gunpoint before, but the funny thing is that it was two guys, and they were both larger than me - they didn't need the gun at all. So restricting gun access in that situation wouldn't have helped (notably, even if I had a gun I couldn't have reacted with it in a meaningful way either, so having access to guns wouldn't necessarily have made the situation better).

But then I'm a tool guy. Everything is a tool, and guns are no different. In the wrong hands a lot of mundane tools you might not be afraid of are just as deadly, and possibly more, than a handgun.
 
Krisken

Krisken

I don't think I can be more succinct in my view without repeating myself, so I'm not sure what to say beyond what I already have. I'm certainly not of Charlie's position, but I find the NRA carry guns in public to be more than a little stupid. History shows us why guns became restricted in dense public settings- people were dying and law enforcement was unable to curb it without it.

Last thing I want is The Wild West, Wisconsin edition.

" Cars are similar to guns in terms of deadliness, but I don't expect you to say the same thing about cars."

That is a false equivalency, stienman. A car is designed for transportation. A gun is designed for... what?
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
Those extended clips aren't mods, Ash. They are manufacturers who make them that way. The big deal is that an enthusiast really has no problem reloading at the firing range, so what is the point of 30+ bullets in a magazine other than 'kill as much as possible before reloading'?
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Actually, they ARE mods. Your adding non-standard equipment to your weapon, so it's a mod by definition. It's really no different than attaching a laser sight or a scope, except that you need to be able to remove a magazine quickly. Also, some weapons can't accept expanded magazines right out of the box... sometimes you need to change other parts to make them fit correctly.

As for why they have them... the thrill of being able to fire a lot of bullets in a short amount of time? Seriously, 90% of people who have these things are just hobbyists that are out for a good time. It's actually pretty rare for these things to be used outside of the range, mainly because they cost so god damn much. Most of the ones that do end up on the streets are stolen or bought by drug cartels outside the country.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
Tell it to
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And here we get to the heart of the matter: Your uncomfortable with one person misusing a firearm, despite the hundreds of thousands of responsible users and sellers who use their firearms every day, sometimes in defense of themselves and others. You never hear about those people because only blood gets headlines.

You and I are already in agreement that people like this shouldn't have access to weapons to begin with, that there should be more through screening and that the gun show loopholes should be closed. But by bringing up a high profile event, you've basically proven my point for me: That its exceedingly rare for such modified weapons to be used criminally... because if they weren't, you'd hear about it all the time. It would be on the news every night.
 
Krisken

Krisken

I don't think we're getting anywhere. Y'all can have your guns whenever. I give up.
Added at: 21:51
Shut up, Charlie. Stop trolling already.
 
CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

I'm not sure if you think the "wild west" is a good or a bad thing if you think it's bad the argument doesn't hold much water as in the wild west the gun death rate was something like 5 people a year. And having a handgun in public is already legal in Wisconsin the only thing they are changing is now you can carry concealed with a license (or unconcealed without a license) so it doesn't change much of anything
 
Krisken

Krisken

I already gave up. No one read what I wrote to begin with, so what is the point?

Here, let me make it exceedingly simple.

1. I support gun rights. Guns have their place in society.
2. I support responsible gun ownership. Most people follow this too. They have gun locks, keep their guns in cabinets, and don't feel the need to wave their gun around 'just because they can' (this is something important to me. If you have to carry a gun 'because you can', you're a fucking idiot).
3. Some restrictions are fine. Semi and fully automatic weapons being used outside of gun ranges makes no sense.
4. You don't need a hand gun clip that holds 31+ bullets. No, 'getting a thrill out of shooting 30+ bullets' is not an acceptable reason to have it. Reload more you lazy fuck.
5. Conceal and Carry in WI is very reasonable. The requirements mean you are serious about gun safety and will take the necessary steps to not be an idiot.

That's pretty much it. Did I miss anything?
 
CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

Just nitpicking here krisken but if you don't want people to have semi or full auto weapons off of a gun range what kind do you think should be allowed off? :)
 
Krisken

Krisken

CrimsonSoul said:
Just nitpicking here krisken but if you don't want people to have semi or full auto weapons off of a gun range what kind do you think should be allowed off? :)
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I believe hand guns are better at home defense than the weapons you listed, which are exceedingly dangerous in those situations. Obviously shotguns and rifles are hunting firearms.

I guess I'd ask, what situation do you feel semi-automatic and automatic weapons would warrant besides a gun range?
 
Bones

Bones

I tend to believe restrictive gun laws are only effective after the fact. but I don't know. it seems criminals will get a hold of guns in any case.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Gun laws don't stop criminals from getting weapons. It stops people who are emotionally charged from being able to grab a gun during their "moment" and do something they wouldn't do after having time to think it through.

As Bones said, it's not stopping Gun criminals.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
I believe hand guns are better at home defense than the weapons you listed, which are exceedingly dangerous in those situations. Obviously shotguns and rifles are hunting firearms.
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Actually, you'd want to use a shotgun for home defense. Buckshot gets terrible penetration, so your less likely to shoot through the wall and hit someone you didn't intend. Plus the pumping sound is a great psychological deterrent.

As they say, the best weapon is one you never have to use.
 
Krisken

Krisken

Shegokigo said:
Gun laws don't stop criminals from getting weapons. It stops people who are emotionally charged from being able to grab a gun during their "moment" and do something they wouldn't do after having time to think it through.

As Bones said, it's not stopping Gun criminals.
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And that is perfectly reasonable. I am totally for giving people a cool off time to think things through.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I gotta agree. If your still mad enough to kill someone after the waiting period, then you were probably going to do it regardless.
 
Bones

Bones

Shegokigo said:
Gun laws don't stop criminals from getting weapons. It stops people who are emotionally charged from being able to grab a gun during their "moment" and do something they wouldn't do after having time to think it through.

As Bones said, it's not stopping Gun criminals.
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yeah I didn't mean the waiting period, I meant exotic mods and powerful anti-personal weapon stuff.
 
Mathias

Mathias

A parent taking their kid to a camping/hunting trip. Parental bonding. Positive thing #2
Added at: 00:19
Sport shooting, clay shooting. Fun hobby for an overstressed workaholic. Positive thing #3.
Added at: 00:20
Using a handgun to open your beer can. +1 Positive.

I'm all for handgun and rifle ownership. It's assault weapons that I start to get a little sketchy on. As far as protection goes, I don't believe you can get anything more out of a handgun than the growl and bark of a German Shepherd, Rottweiler, or Doberman would do for you.
 
M

makare

You can bow hunt. And it would be pretty badass to have a bow for home protection.
 
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