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http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/27/...ents-shooting-victim-on-his-motorc/#continued

Just wow. :wtf:

I've also seen a sports fan in their own recliner surrounded by their team logo junk. I'll see if I can find a better pic, it's from 2005.

How's this any different from any other funeral ritual? The guy obviously loved to ride his bike. Really no different than sticking things in the casket. It helps the family to mourn seeing their loved ones doing the things they enjoyed.

We are not that messed up...most of the time....maybe part of the time.........hhmmmm....maybe a little more the usual....

That clip gave me idea....I want them put my body up as a zombie. And they have to put me by a window.....next to a school.

That would rock, Ravage! And don't tell anyone you are doing it so one morning they wake up and THERE YOU ARE!!

Not really messed up, IMO. If I was inclined towards being buried, I'd see about being buried in a decommissioned Crown Vic. It would make the burial process easier.... just roll me in. *grins*

That's not how he was being buried though, that's how he was being SHOWN to his family and friends at the funeral.

I agree with Chaz on this one, pretty much the same as looking at a corspe in a box except the only thing that seems odd is it is a bit more inventive then the traditional pose that people are accustomed.

I gotta disagree. It's pretty selfish and I can't imagine it being seen as much else than a disgrace to put the body there in a way the family can't properly grieve and move on.

(This is an opinion, I'm not saying anyone is wrong, just simply how I view the situation at hand)

Odds are this person made his wishes known to his family before hand, and this is how he wanted his body displayed.

Again, seems selfish.

I don't understand how this is selfish. A lot of people request weird things for their families to do when they die or leave instructions. In my case of strange, my parents got "We Had Fun" engraved on their headstone so people would think of how much they enjoyed their lives instead of focusing on the fact that they're dead. Personally I think it's tacky, but hey, not my headstone. If the family didn't want the guy on the motorcycle, they could have expressed that to the funeral director. I'm sure the funeral home would listen to them if they didn't want their loved one shown this way.

SELFISH!!!!!!1111


Mainly fish.

Again, a headstone is a bit different than going to a wake and seeing the body propped up like that when the family is still recently trying to accept that the other has passed on...

Those crazy Puerto Ricans. Fast forward this clip to 3:09.

Cobra Star said:

Again, seems selfish.

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I really don't see how it's selfish for a family to pose their relative in a way that honors what that person loved during their lifetime...

---------- Post added at 07:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 AM ----------

Cobra Star said:

Again, a headstone is a bit different than going to a wake and seeing the body propped up like that when the family is still recently trying to accept that the other has passed on...

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I'm pretty sure the guy on the bike had nothing to do with the final arrangements of being propped on a motorcycle. He's dead!

How about these things to do in Asia when you're dead.

The family is the one who has a say in doing this as executors of the will.

The family is the group who could be offended by doing this.

The family does this.

Not seeing the logic cohesion. Unless sanctity of caskets is going to become a new flag for people to wave, like sanctity of marriage BS.

If the family made the choice. Fine, their choice and if they grieve properly in spite of it. More power to them.

If it was his "last will and testament" and the family did it to honor his wishes. Then yeah, I don't agree on it.

It's their choice either way. You don't have to do what the will says. That's why you trust someone to be the executor of your will--you're trusting them to honor your last wishes. The family didn't have to though.

They can do it, and still not like it.

Still their choice. If it offended them so badly, no one was making them. People shouldn't request things for fear of someone going along with that request, except doing it begrudgingly? I see that in marriages a lot, but when one party is dead, they're not really going to hold you accountable one way or the other.

Pretty much, yeah. "I can make them do it, cause I won't have to hear them complain about it" seems about as selfish as a sentence can be.

He can't make them. He's DEAD.

You also put out a disturbing notion that people shouldn't ask for something out of fear of offending. "Well, I'd like this to be how my body is displayed at my wake, but the family might be offended, so I won't put it in the will." Hiding what you want lets no one know your desires, and just makes everyone miserable.

Here's how it should go down:
"I'd like my body displayed this way."
"No, we're not comfortable with that." Which does not mean "But we'll do it anyway." That passive, begrudging submission is the worst way to go through life. Again, just makes everyone miserable. Notice there's no response from dead guy--because he's dead. He can't argue his point.

One should still make the request, because the alternative can be:
"I'd like my body displayed this way."
"Sure, we'll do that."

Damn, I'd hate to be someone going through life telling no one what I wanted, and then when they tell me what they want, having a "fine, I'll do it, but I'm not gonna like it and you're selfish" attitude. Seems like a good way to be unhappy and make others unhappy through your joyless demeanor. People need to be a little selfish, at least enough to request the things they want. They also need to be gracious to accept when those requests are shot down. Except this guy doesn't--because he's dead. He wasn't going to be there to beg or guilt or anything.

So if they didn't want to do it, they didn't have to. On some level, they desired to go along with this. If it offended them so badly, they could've stuck him in a casket for the wake and been done with it.

That's all for arguing through the logic of what you're saying. On-topic, this guy was 22. He probably didn't even have a will. And the article itself says:

upon Mr. Colón's untimely demise, family members delivered the bike to the funeral home specifically for this unusual wake.

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Ever heard of doing something out of guilt? (Guilt of not following through the wishes of the deceased, even though you feel it's wrong)

So which selfishness is more troublesome?
A. requesting of someone something they don't have to do
B. doing something so you don't have the guilt but get to bitch about it
C. turning down a request because it offends you

The selfishness where you put your own wants (which you can't even reap because you're dead) over the wellbeing and proper grieving of your family.

Again, if it was what his family wanted, then I have no issue here. My issue is if it was not.

Which is pretty clearly what happened.

Nonetheless, they could put their own grieving first even if he asked for it and they weren't comfortable. I think it's ridiculous to believe that someone's will request alleviates their family of any free will, that all requested actions are the responsibility of the dead person. I'm of a mind that when you died, you don't suddenly grasp your family's minds like puppet strings, but everyone has their own afterlife beliefs. I think what you're arguing is actually a huge problem in how people relate today, that because someone is subjected to passive aggression or guilt, that suddenly they're obligated to do what the passive-aggressor/guilter wants. They're not. Each person is responsible for their own actions. No one can make you do something; you make choices and they have various consequences. In this case, had it not been what the family desired, they could have made the choice to go against his wishes and faced the consequence of guilt, or gone along with his wishes and faced the consequence of some discomfort at the wake.

Either way, it's a person's own choice what they do, no one else's around them. Particularly not dead people.

who says guilt even has to come into it?

If my little bro died, for instance, and wanted to be represented at his viewing in a white robe and thorny crown up on a cross, I could say "hah! that'd be hilarious and just like him!" and do it. Or I could say "meh, that's freaking ridiculous, no way." and not do it..either way, I wouldn't have any guilt at all. Seriously, what's he gonna do? Jump up out of the casket and bitch at me for not putting him up on a cross?

I think the position Cobra is railing about is pretty far fetched: That somehow the bike rider was a real selfish asshole who wanted to be displayed in a certain way, even though he knew it'd make his family uncomfortable, and yet, somehow they acceded to his wishes and then regretted it the entire time. More likely, they saw his request and went "fuckin a..that sounds cool. It's just what he'd want" and did it. If indeed it was even the deceased idea...for all we know, it was the family's idea, because it was a way to remember him in a positive way.

Far fetched or not, that was simply the point I was making. I wasn't aruging the other points.

Tinwhistler said:

I think the position Cobra is railing about is pretty far fetched: That somehow the bike rider was a real selfish asshole who wanted to be displayed in a certain way, even though he knew it'd make his family uncomfortable, and yet, somehow they acceded to his wishes and then regretted it the entire time.

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Yeah, and in which case, it'd be entirely their own fault for acceding.

They're going to feel bad in either choice of that situation:

They go through with it, they do not grieve correctly.
They don't, they feel guilty for not following the wishes.

It's lose/lose.

.

Cobra Star said:

They're going to feel bad in either choice of that situation:

They go through with it, they do not grieve correctly.
They don't, they feel guilty for not following the wishes.

It's lose/lose.

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http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html

Logical fallacy. You completely ignore the fact that there's a third (and possibly more) options. Notably:
c) The family thought it was great, and had good closure because of it.

Not everyone has to have a wailing, teeth-gnashing, hair-rending grief-stricken viewing to send someone off to the great beyond in order to have closure. Ever hear of an Irish wake? Not everyone has to have your ideology in order to 'greive properly.'

Cobra Star said:

They go through with it, they do not grieve correctly.
.

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Really?

What exactly is "grieving correctly"?

My point is suddenly invalidated due to bad spelling at a terrible early hour post.

I never said there wasn't more options Tin. I'm simply stating the situations I would feel would be wrong. I'm not even talking about the OP anymore.

Cobra Star said:

My point is suddenly invalidated due to bad spelling at a terrible early hour post.

I never said there wasn't more options Tin. I'm simply stating the situations I would feel would be wrong. I'm not even talking about the OP anymore.

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I don't think the dead person has any sway on having their last wishes followed through on, so no there really are no situations were a family can't grieve the way they want to. The only thing I can think of would be despute amongst living relatives as to what that person would want if it wasn't expressed during their lifetime, which invalidates that whole "selfish" request nonsense.

Cobra Star said:

My point is suddenly invalidated due to bad spelling at a terrible early hour post.

I never said there wasn't more options Tin. I'm simply stating the situations I would feel would be wrong. I'm not even talking about the OP anymore.

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I don't think it's a matter of spelling...

Cobra Star said:

I never said there wasn't more options Tin.

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Actually, that's pretty much exactly what you said.

There obviously has been alot lost in the multiple responses to all sides I'll clear it up:

If the family wanted this. Great. (Yes we've established the family didn't mind, it's become hypothetical now)
If the family didn't mind this. Great.
If he wanted it done and they didn't do it. Selfish as they would feel guilty.
If he wanted it done and they did it, though they didn't want to out of guilt. Selfish as they would suffer.

That's it. That's the only points I was making. How it got this far with words being put in my mouth, I have no idea.

Cobra Star said:

There obviously has been alot lost in the multiple responses to all sides I'll clear it up:

If the family wanted this. Great. (Yes we've established the family didn't mind, it's become hypothetical now)
If the family didn't mind this. Great.
If he wanted it done and they didn't do it. Selfish as they would feel guilty.
If he wanted it done and they did it, though they didn't want to out of guilt. Selfish as they would suffer.

That's it. That's the only points I was making. How it got this far with words being put in my mouth, I have no idea.

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And we've been trying to tell you that a dead person has no say in the matter and that 100% of the time families mourn the best way they're able to as much as possible.

I'll get personal here. When my grandfather died, he wanted to be buried in Poland. We couldn't afford that sort of trip so it was compromised to a Polish cemetery in the U.S. It was not a selfish request for him to ask this, nor did anyone in my family feel guilty about the conclusion that was decided upon. The only thing people felt bad about was that he was gone. People don't feel bad about final wishes not being resolved because the person who's dead isn't there to complain about it.

Your last two points aren't valid points because it just doesn't happen. The only gray area is when family members disagree among themselves how things should be handled. The dead person has no sway whatsoever over the guilt and arrangement of their funeral.

Well, I'm sure some people will feel bad for not honoring final wishes.

Who are you to judge what is the correct way to grieve? Everyone handles it differently.

tegid said:

Well, I'm sure some people will feel bad for not honoring final wishes.

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It's hardly a selfish thing to request final wishes though.

When I go, I want to be propped up at a party... Like Errol Flynn

Then cremated, and stuffed into a used computer case...

I'll add more later.

This argument is hilarious. Now, we need the thread to turn into something completely different, and then locked and it'll have the official HF Stamp.

I want to be stuffed and put next to my wife's bed. When you pull my finger a pre-recorded fart plays.

I think it's awesome and now wish to be displayed doing what I love in a similar manner.

Where the family comes up with three Real Dolls, a monkey and case of Cool Whip should not be something I have to concern myself with, and I don't see where that makes me selfish at all.

When I die, I want to be have animatronics put in my body, LEDs inserted in place of my eyeballs, and a motion sensor in my head so I can be like one of those life-sized Halloween witches.

But guys! if your family doesn't grieve correctly, your spirit won't find it's way to the afterlife! You'll be doomed to wander the earth for all eternity!

:aaahhh:

Seriously Soliloquy? That was necessary?

I've seen jerk posts here for years, but that's down right directly jackassry.

Cobra Star said:

Seriously Soliloquy? That was necessary?

I've seen jerk posts here for years, but that's down right directly jackassry.

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Methinks someone has thin skin. Didn't really mean offense by it.

Besides, we'll just end up in an alternate reality until we realize that we all know eachother and my dead father shows up to tell me that it's all good.

Please, please let this not be the reality where Gusto and I have a kid. That...that's just awkward.

Better than the reality with the polar bear smoke monster and mysteriously immortal russians.

man... it's bugging me now. Maybe I was being out of line and didn't realize it.

Was I being out of line, guys? I kind of feel like a jerk now.

Eh, doesn't show up as particularly snarky on my radar.

I'm pretty thick skinned, but I was being relatively serious in this thread. Then it got berating for no reason. I know HF loves to take things off topic, but to be directly negative like that is something new or reserved for Neon Grew or Mav. Guess I know what "club" I'm in.

You're right, I *was* thinking about it in terms of what I'm familiar with. That what I was basing my response and opinion on.

Cobra Star said:

You're right, I *was* thinking about it in terms of what I'm familiar with. That what I was basing my response and opinion on.

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See, guys? His argument isn't hollow logic or even him being damn stupid. He's just ethnocentric.

BTW, there's no "club". Mav doesn't get berated because people want someone to pick on. Mav gets berated because he says dumb, dumb things. You're saying dumb things, so you're being berated.

And I can't help but wonder if Soliloquy's joke was so far from the truth.

Soliloquy said:

Was I being out of line, guys?

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I don't see it.

When you start telling people that are experiencing one of the most personal, individual things they can go through, that they're doing it wrong, it means that you're being an utter pillock. What next, walking into a maternity ward and telling the laboring moms-to-be that they're not giving birth correctly?

Fun Size said:

Please, please let this not be the reality where Gusto and I have a kid. That...that's just awkward.

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Why am I gay in every hypothetically-proposed alternate reality!?

Maybe this is just the only specific universe in which I am straight.

Now let's see dem juggs.

escushion;389238][QUOTE=Cobra Star said:

You're right, I *was* thinking about it in terms of what I'm familiar with. That what I was basing my response and opinion on.

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See, guys? His argument isn't hollow logic or even him being damn stupid. He's just ethnocentric.

BTW, there's no "club". Mav doesn't get berated because people want someone to pick on. Mav gets berated because he says dumb, dumb things. You're saying dumb things, so you're being berated.

And I can't help but wonder if Soliloquy's joke was so far from the truth.[/QUOTE]

Except I wasn't saying "dumb things". People were putting words and meanings in my mouth that I was not expressing, which were dumb.

I simply stated that if that was done against the wishes of the family, it's messed up and selfish.

I can't believe it got so far away from that by other people.

Cobra Star;389272][QUOTE=escushion;389238][QUOTE=Cobra Star said:

You're right, I *was* thinking about it in terms of what I'm familiar with. That what I was basing my response and opinion on.

Click to expand...

See, guys? His argument isn't hollow logic or even him being damn stupid. He's just ethnocentric.

BTW, there's no "club". Mav doesn't get berated because people want someone to pick on. Mav gets berated because he says dumb, dumb things. You're saying dumb things, so you're being berated.

And I can't help but wonder if Soliloquy's joke was so far from the truth.[/QUOTE]

Except I wasn't saying "dumb things". People were putting words and meanings in my mouth that I was not expressing, which were dumb.

I simply stated that if that was done against the wishes of the family, it's messed up and selfish.

I can't believe it got so far away from that by other people.[/QUOTE]

That may be what you meant, but what you said was something about "grieving correctly", which implies that the family in question wasn't. Everyone grieves differently, so there is no "correct" grieving. I'm guessing it's not the way you'd show grief, but you are not the universal standard of loss.

I've been around the forums plenty long enough to know that calling someone out on "stupid shit" and being overall jackass about the response are two different things. Reserved usually for people like JCM/Chaz etc.

Not the regular populace. Surprise surprise though.

Look, I get what you are saying, but besides some assholeness what you are getting is mostly 'calling out'. It seems to you that people are being douchebags because you don't agree with them or feel they don't want to understand you. That's all.

Cobra Star said:

I've been around the forums plenty long enough to know that calling someone out on "stupid shit" and being overall jackass about the response are two different things. Reserved usually for people like JCM/Chaz etc.

Not the regular populace. Surprise surprise though.

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No. I jump on people for being stupid or when they decide to bring my name up like you just did, but I'll admit it when I'm wrong. End of story. Welcome to the forums douchebag. All you have to do is admit you were wrong and said something stupid and everyone will back off. Defending an empty position makes you look dumb.

You know, I only just watched the video in the OP. I don't actually find that too creepy. He looks kinda like a wax figure in a museum. I mean, if he was a 100 years old when he died, it'd have looked a lot nastier, but as it is, that's kinda ... well, cool.

- Philosopher B., who doesn't like to see corpses at funerals in general no matter where they're positioned

(Grumpy admin alert!)

My entry to the thread before I *voom* away and start throwing things.

I've told my wife several times the following things I want done on my death.

1. I want my body donated to a body farm for forensic students. I've been told it doesn't matter what I wanted this wasn't happening.
2. I am registered as an organ & tissue donor. My wife is not comfortable with that. So it may or may not happen.
3. I want the funeral procession to go through a fast food drive through. First, it's probably what killed me. Second, I would be laughing from Beyond at the faces of the drivethrough window workers as the hearse came through. in addition, I'd love to see how many people followed it through.

What would I not want? being freezedried like a taxidermied pet. But that's just me. I see every point everyone is trying to make. Some think that people should make every effort to fulfill the last wishes of the deceased and not doing so is disrespectful. I can see that. Others think that the living should do what they can but should grieve in their own way. i get that, too. I mean, what if some poor shlub's last wishes are to have his remains shot into the heart of the Sun? Probably isn't going to happen. So the dying have to have a little reality check. I want to be sprinkled on the chest of Brooke Burke. I don't see her as letting that happen, even if my wife allowed it.

So all of this that's gone on in the thread? Speculation, opinion and the occasional idiocy. Please stop the latter before I lock the fuck out of the former.

I want my body chopped up and have parts of it hidden in the houses of everyone I know. Then someone will send an anonymous tip to the cops that they know who killed me.

personally, I think the guy and his family should be given mad props for doing this, if it helped them find closure for his murder(as we see he was shot to death) this is the greatest thing that could happen, also props to the people who did an amazing job of cleaning him up and getting him into position. if any good can come of his murder, than I have no qualms about it.

Cobra Star said:

I've been around the forums plenty long enough to know that calling someone out on "stupid shit" and being overall jackass about the response are two different things. Reserved usually for people like JCM/Chaz etc.

Not the regular populace. Surprise surprise though.

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You seem to have segmented the forum into cliques that don't exist outside of your opinion, and now you're acting all surprised when people aren't living up to your meaningless categories.

And Mr. Thehun is right.