Rise of Skywalker with Spoilers

figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
netsirk said:
Apparently it's cheaper to drive a planet around than an entire fleet of starships? Why bring out the ExtraSuperMassive weapon if the SuperMassive weapon will do to quash the rebel resistance scum? Or possibly the legion of Sith Minions (who may or may not have been spirits of sith past or current living groupies) were still installing the cupholders and air fresheners in the Fleet o' Doom during TFA so they couldn't deploy yet? And per TRoS, Snoke was a (potentially literal) puppet with the Emperor pulling the strings, so it wasn't particularly his call to make to deploy the huge fleet.

(All that being said, I enjoyed TFA and TRoS...)
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Each ship in the fleet is capable of destroying a planet on it's own. Why build Starkiller base at all?

And, yes, Snoke was just Palpatine's puppet. Palpatine knew he had the tech to put a superweapon on a Star Destroyer. Why build Starkiller base if he already miniaturized the tech?

And before you say "well, maybe the tech wasn't ready yet", one of the points of Star Was canon was supposed to be that tech was relatively stagnant and that the galaxy has been at roughly the same level of tech for thousands of years. Knights of the Old Republic takes place nearly 4,000 years before the current trilogy, and has pretty much the same level of tech.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

figmentPez said:
Each ship in the fleet is capable of destroying a planet on it's own. Why build Starkiller base at all?

And, yes, Snoke was just Palpatine's puppet. Palpatine knew he had the tech to put a superweapon on a Star Destroyer. Why build Starkiller base if he already miniaturized the tech?

And before you say "well, maybe the tech wasn't ready yet", one of the points of Star Was canon was supposed to be that tech was relatively stagnant and that the galaxy has been at roughly the same level of tech for thousands of years. Knights of the Old Republic takes place nearly 4,000 years before the current trilogy, and has pretty much the same level of tech.
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Starkiller Base is revealed in Fallen Order to be a project started right with the original rise of the empire, and is in fact Ilum, the Jedi planet where Jedi would pilgrimage to get they kyber crystals.


So the first order didn't really build starkiller Base so much as they just finished it.


As for palatine's killer fleet, my question is who is crewing all of those? He just rose them up fully crewed?
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

I'd like to add, all of this is pretty common solutions for the Empire; when the Rebellion blew up the Death Star, what do they do? Build the same thing again! What could go wrong?!
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Ravenpoe said:
As for palatine's killer fleet, my question is who is crewing all of those?
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At the risk of getting this whole thread moved to the politcal sub-forum: The space-midwest built them. He promised them factory jobs and they came flocking. The crew have been told they'll get their college educations paid for. Which makes the Knights of Ren a cross between fratboys and Masons.
 
netsirk

netsirk

figmentPez said:
Each ship in the fleet is capable of destroying a planet on its own. Why build Starkiller base at all?

And, yes, Snoke was just Palpatine's puppet. Palpatine knew he had the tech to put a superweapon on a Star Destroyer. Why build Starkiller base if he already miniaturized the tech?
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I mean, the *real* reason is just story writing 101 - Word of God says you always have to come up with a bigger menace than in the previous installment, or otherwise it's anticlimactic (story/canon justification be damned). But that's less fun than coming up with goofy theories as to why highly illogical things happen in the plot. (And wasn't there a throwaway line from Poe or someone basically saying that Palpatine had scuttled off with his crew immediately after being chucked down the vent shaft to start rebuilding, implying that Palps didn't just magic up the fleet out of thin air, but had his minions in the salt mines actually building things in secret away from the less-crazy eyes of the First Order starting around 4-5ABY or so?)

PatrThom said:
Nah. We know Jedi are the real Space Wizards.--Patrick
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So evil space wizards, then. :)
 
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Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

netsirk said:
I mean, the *real* reason is just story writing 101 - Word of God says you always have to come up with a bigger menace than in the previous installment, or otherwise it's anticlimactic (story/canon justification be damned). But that's less fun than coming up with goofy theories as to why highly illogical things happen in the plot. (And wasn't there a throwaway line from Poe or someone basically saying that Palpatine had scuttled off with his crew immediately after being chucked down the vent shaft to start rebuilding, implying that Palps didn't just magic up the fleet out of thin air, but had his minions in the salt mines actually building things in secret away from the less-crazy eyes of the First Order starting around 4-5ABY or so?)



So evil space wizards, then. :)
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Who knows what Poe said, the entire movie played at like 3x speed
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

While I haven't watched the movie yet...the Emperor does have a history with both druids and clones, so either could work for equipping a fleet.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

As someone who adores The Force Awakens and thinks highly of The Last Jedi:

This was a mess. It was like rather than complete the narrative, character, emotional, and thematic arcs of those movies, JJ decided to try to please the complaints lobbied at each of those movies (which each have had distinct complaints sent their way).

I'm sick of Colin Trevorrow, too.

This was not worth Julie spraining her ankle trying to see.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Hailey Knight said:
As someone who adores The Force Awakens and thinks highly of The Last Jedi:

This was a mess. It was like rather than complete the narrative, character, emotional, and thematic arcs of those movies, JJ decided to try to please the complaints lobbied at each of those movies (which each have had distinct complaints sent their way).

I'm sick of Colin Trevorrow, too.

This was not worth Julie spraining her ankle trying to see.
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I feel like I can't even blame Abrams here because I knew exactly the kind of movie he was going to make, he already made it in the force awakens. He was brought in to start the trilogy because he's a discount Spielberg who loves nostalgia and they wanted the first movie to be as safe as possible. The plan then was to have new directors take the next two movies. But when people complained about TLJ being too different they went into full panic because this isn't a film franchise, it's a product.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Ravenpoe said:
I feel like I can't even blame Abrams here because I knew exactly the kind of movie he was going to make, he already made it in the force awakens. He was brought in to start the trilogy because he's a discount Spielberg who loves nostalgia and they wanted the first movie to be as safe as possible. The plan then was to have new directors take the next two movies. But when people complained about TLJ being too different they went into full panic because this isn't a film franchise, it's a product.
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I got an especially Spider-Man 3 vibe from TRoS.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I guess I'm not done.

I love Star Wars for the emotional stuff, and that's the big reason I dislike the prequels (among other reasons) and like the OT, TFA, and TLJ. But Rise of Skywalker gives SO LITTLE of that for the actors to even work with.

.Finn talking about the Force (solid character moment)
.Chewie's reaction to Leia's death (that broke me)
.I'm a sucker for the "putting out the word for help with little hope and then everyone shows up at the key dramatic moment" scene, so I'll give that to the movie. It probably didn't earn it, but I can't tell because I'm biased.

But I feel TRoS failed the new characters. Rose is shoved aside, Finn is given little to do, Poe probably has the best of it since he's given leadership late in the movie, and Rey, who wanted companionship and family, is last seen on another desert planet alone, looking to the horizon; one of Luke's flaws is turned into the end of her journey. The first two movies had me love these new characters and then just shit.

I could've forgiven all the sloppy pacing, redundant plot points, mcguffin hunt, pointless extra bits ... I can forgive a lot of a Star Wars movie and even come to enjoy if the emotional beats are engaging and satisfying, worth talking about with Julie after the movie.

John Williams was on his A-game as usual. There were some solid renditions of different Star Wars themes.

Edit: okay, STILL not done

The characters keep saying "If we lose, it was all for nothing" except that's what it feels like at the end anyway if Rey is just alone. It's a fucking desert. Palpatine wasn't going to be oppressing the Hutt crime families all that much.

I really want my brain to move onto the not caring stage so I can stop feeling bummed about this. I would've rather the story ended in horrible tragedy, something with a heartbeat, than this gray lump. That's why it feels like the prequels to me.

I need to find an engaging movie to watch tonight.
 
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Frank

Frank

Ugh, Greg Fucking Grunberg and Dominic Monaghan both have more lines and screen time than Kelly Marie Tran did.

Fuck off JJ Abbrams.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

I feel like the argument was pretty weak too. They said it's because all the scenes they filmed, they wanted Rose leading the resistance base alongside Carrie by having them interact with older footage from before Carrie's death. It was all cut though, when they felt the older scenes "wouldn't digitally fit" in post production.

Remember, this is the same studio that brought Peter Cushing back from the dead for Rogue One, but couldn't digitally make old footage of Carrie work with Kelly Marie Tran. I don't buy it.

This isn't even going into the fact she seemed to have a scene interacting with Rey that was also cut, only seen in promotional material. Did that one just not work in digital editing either? I really think it was all just pandering to the asshats.
 
netsirk

netsirk

ScytheRexx said:
Remember, this is the same studio that brought Peter Cushing back from the dead for Rogue One, but couldn't digitally make old footage of Carrie work with Kelly Marie Tran. I don't buy it.
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Though Peter Cushing looked pretty awful in RO when you could actually see his features. From afar, he was great. Up close? Not so much. Glad they didn't do that with Carrie (the digital version of her younger self was bad enough).

(Would I have liked more KMT in TRoS? Absolutely! Though perhaps they'd have to run the movie at 4x speed to fit her in too...)
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Last weekend I read a list on Rotten Tomatoes of the 110 best scifi movies. Last Jedi made the list, not only that but was the highest rated Star Wars movie. Beating out the original and Empire. I really don't see how.
 
Dei

Dei

I'm not really surprised. Every Star Wars movie has some weird pacing issue (and the original has a lot of controversy due to Lucas edits), but Last Jedi had a lot of great character building moments. Regardless of the vocal minority screaming about Luke being ruined, most people love a flawed hero.
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

sixpackshaker said:
Last weekend I read a list on Rotten Tomatoes of the 110 best scifi movies. Last Jedi made the list, not only that but was the highest rated Star Wars movie. Beating out the original and Empire. I really don't see how.
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I stil kinda like TLJ and thought its...heavy borrowing from ANH was an over-correction from the prequels, but it was much more SW than APM and it showed potential (that hasn't quite been realized, apparently). I can see why it would make the list, maybe. How it can score higher than ESB or ANH...I guess youngsters these days really just need a good whack on the side of the head?
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Bubble181 said:
I stil kinda like TLJ and thought its...heavy borrowing from ANH was an over-correction from the prequels, but it was much more SW than APM and it showed potential (that hasn't quite been realized, apparently). I can see why it would make the list, maybe. How it can score higher than ESB or ANH...I guess youngsters these days really just need a good whack on the side of the head?
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Are you confusing the last Jedi for the force awakens?

Also, TLJ is my favorite Star Wars movie. Fight me.
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Ravenpoe said:
Are you confusing the last Jedi for the force awakens?

Also, TLJ is my favorite Star Wars movie. Fight me.
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Yes, I was.
I've only seen TLJ once and didn't dislike it as much as many others, but I sure wouldn't give it to #1 spot on any star wars movie list.
 
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