So I'm trying to rid myself of my 4e books...

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fade

fade

Staff member
The tags bring up another thing that bugs me, too. Someone tagged it "I'm lvl 1 and I hate dnd4". I heard this crap about WoW, too. Why shouldn't I? If it can't capture me at level one, why should I put in what amounts to work just to get to the "better" parts? Doesn't that take the game out of the game?

---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 PM ----------
Reverent-one;309760][quote=fade said:
Well it might if the 4e people didn't come out guns blazing with snippy language. It's like the people who didn't like 4e are somehow insulting the people who do personally just because they discovered they didn't like it.
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No, it's insulting when people say that 4e is just a board game, or that you can't RP (or RP well), or that all the classes are exactly the same. If you don't like 4e, that's fine, but don't go making objective statements like that (note: the "you" here is a hypothetical you, not you, fade).[/QUOTE]

Why is it insulting? We can disagree without being insulted. It seems like a lot of 4 ed fans are getting their feelings hurt about a difference in opinion regarding a game. If you like it, go for it, but don't expect everyone's opinion to be the same.
 
K

Kitty Sinatra

Crap. There's a tag that says my opinion is wrong but I haven't even posted it yet. Damn, are these tags psychic or something?
 
Reverent-one

Reverent-one

fade;310045][quote=Reverent-one;309760][quote=fade said:
Well it might if the 4e people didn't come out guns blazing with snippy language. It's like the people who didn't like 4e are somehow insulting the people who do personally just because they discovered they didn't like it.
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No, it's insulting when people say that 4e is just a board game, or that you can't RP (or RP well), or that all the classes are exactly the same. If you don't like 4e, that's fine, but don't go making objective statements like that (note: the "you" here is a hypothetical you, not you, fade).[/QUOTE]

Why is it insulting? We can disagree without being insulted. It seems like a lot of 4 ed fans are getting their feelings hurt about a difference in opinion regarding a game. If you like it, go for it, but don't expect everyone's opinion to be the same.[/QUOTE]

Where did I say the simple fact that you disagree is insulting? In fact, I said "If you don't like 4e, that's fine". The complaint I have is not when people say it's simply not for them, that the fact that 4e doesn't try to be simulationist to the extent that 3.5 did makes it harder for them to stay IC, or something like that. It's when a someone anti-4e says objectively "it's not an RPG/D&D at all, just a board game" and "you can't RP in it", which means anyone who disagrees must be flat out wrong. It when someone who dislikes 4e marginalizes those of us who do, like when Wana10 trolled (humorously, I assume) and said people playing 4e need to get a real game.
 
R

RealBigNuke

Reverent-one said:
which means anyone who disagrees must be flat out wrong.
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It mostly means anyone who disagrees must disagree. Under these rules anyone who has an opinion automatically insults everyone who has a different opinion.
 
R

RealBigNuke

Reverent-one;310172][quote=RealBigNuke;310171][quote=Reverent-one said:
which means anyone who disagrees must be flat out wrong.
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It mostly means anyone who disagrees must disagree. Under these rules anyone who has an opinion automatically insults everyone who has a different opinion.[/QUOTE]

Except such statements are not made as opinions, hence my issue with them.[/QUOTE]

It is your opinion that such statements of opinion are not opinions. At least that's my opinion. You're statement considering our opinions runs against my opinion, which would make it an insult.

It is my opinion that this system's apt to lead to hard feelings.
 
K

Kitty Sinatra

Or to state it more clearly: Everything said on the internet is just someone's opinion, even if they word it as a fact. And being on the internet, that opinion is wrong.

New England Patriots suck.
Toronto Maple Leafs are the team to beat this year.
 
Reverent-one

Reverent-one

RealBigNuke;310182][quote=Reverent-one;310172][quote=RealBigNuke;310171][quote=Reverent-one said:
which means anyone who disagrees must be flat out wrong.
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It mostly means anyone who disagrees must disagree. Under these rules anyone who has an opinion automatically insults everyone who has a different opinion.[/QUOTE]

Except such statements are not made as opinions, hence my issue with them.[/QUOTE]

It is your opinion that such statements of opinion are not opinions. At least that's my opinion. You're statement considering our opinions runs against my opinion, which would make it an insult.

It is my opinion that this system's apt to lead to hard feelings.[/QUOTE]

Gruebeard said:
Or to state it more clearly: Everything said on the internet is just someone's opinion, even if they word it as a fact. And being on the internet, that opinion is wrong.

New England Patriots suck.
Toronto Maple Leafs are the team to beat this year.
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Yes, how dare I understand someone's words to mean what the words mean, and not some other, entirely different, meaning.

This also misses the point of my first reply to fade, which is not that people that dislike 4e are just saying "I'm not really a big 4e fan" and those that disagree are then going off the handle at that.
 
Krisken

Krisken

Reverent-one said:
This also misses the point of my first reply to fade, which is not that people that dislike 4e are just saying "I'm not really a big 4e fan" and those that disagree are then going off the handle at that.
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I think you somehow missed the first post to start degrading the other viewpoint without adding anything to the conversation-

SeriousJay said:
Holy shit, people don't like 4e? Sucks to not be able to create demi-gods and not be all about the me, me, meeeeeeeeeeee!
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Go back to the first page and see why this became a stupid us-V-them argument. It certainly isn't because the people who don't care for the system said you were dumb for liking it.


I wish people would get their panties in a bunch like this over net neutrality. :mad:
 
R

RealBigNuke

Reverent-one said:
Yes, how dare I understand someone's words to mean what the words mean, and not some other, entirely different, meaning.
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God, I hope that was said ironically.

A statement concerning one's appraisal of the abstract or subjective values of something is an opinion. By definition. Here, let me support that: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

You are taking offense to people opinions on things that do not relate to you as a matter of English grammatical fact. Unless you developed the Fourth Edition system, or something, I suppose.
 
Jay

Jay

fade said:
The tags bring up another thing that bugs me, too. Someone tagged it "I'm lvl 1 and I hate dnd4". I heard this crap about WoW, too. Why shouldn't I? If it can't capture me at level one, why should I put in what amounts to work just to get to the "better" parts? Doesn't that take the game out of the game?
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I'm sure LVL 1 Wizards in 3.5 concur.
 
K

Kitty Sinatra

Allen, you have to understand that the only reason I could even begin to bring myself to type that with a straight face is the tag down there that frees me up to post the most inane, obviously idiotic statements.



Also, seriously: I agree with Jay ;)
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

SeriousJay;310231][quote=fade said:
The tags bring up another thing that bugs me, too. Someone tagged it "I'm lvl 1 and I hate dnd4". I heard this crap about WoW, too. Why shouldn't I? If it can't capture me at level one, why should I put in what amounts to work just to get to the "better" parts? Doesn't that take the game out of the game?
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I'm sure LVL 1 Wizards in 3.5 concur.[/QUOTE]

They knew what they were getting into.
 
K

Kitty Sinatra

I'm totally disappointed in you for laughing at my trolling.

Wait . . . you're laughing at me! :(
 
D

Deschain

Oh yea, the answer in 4e is you don't.

So a superior in the Church asks me to infiltrate a rebel group and figure out what their plan is. To observe them, I make a ghillie suit out of trash to hide in an alleyway. Our party manages to infiltrate them but the only way they'll trust us is by kidnapping someone for them. It turns out the kidnappings are to lure a group of high level paladin agents to an ambush, upon which their armor will be forcibly taken and used as a disguise to gain access to some corrupt clerics who are trying to install an illegitimate heir (so basically the rebels were the good guys). As a paladin of the Church, kidnapping a merchant was something I could not do. I did not believe in committing evil to stop evil. There was only one thing left for me to do.

I had to become my alter ego, a Lucha Libre wrestler named EL PALADINO NEGRO, whose only purpose in life was to best opponents in the ring of combat. Along with an enterprising bard, we delivered the merchant as a prisoner to the group. The Church paladins show up later and are ambushed by the rebels. Despite being a member of the Church, the alter ego EL PALADINO NEGRO has no complications with grappling in the ring with the paladins. We successfully subdue then and suddenly my party starts attacking the rebels as well. I'm pretty confused right now but EL PALADINO NEGRO has no such qualms and asks the nearest mage if he was a Luchador. The confused mage replies no and EL PALADINO responds, "You are now." and begins grapplin' and stabbing. The party basically finishes off the entire room and now we have two sides worth of dead/unconscious combatants. Somehow the bard gets us out of trouble and we get a reward. I turn back into a normal paladin and act like nothing happened. And since the description of 'a wrestler with a luchador mask and black scale mail calling him EL PALADIN NEGRO' and 'a paladin with a warhammer, glaive, and shining plate armor' are quite different, the Church was none the wiser.

Grappling kind of sucks in 4e though. Couldn't do any of the cool things like pinning or hitting them with their own fists.
 
D

Deschain

tl;dr DM tries to come up with a moral dilemma for the paladin, whether to go against members of the Church to do the right thing or obey superiors without question. Paladin decides to become a luchador wrestler and grapple everyone into submission instead.

Also this is the battle music:

Funny story, this took place in a room where there was a central part and then the rest of it was upraised. So I made that my ring of honor and would throw people into it. For my entrance, I fired twin crossbows and then jumped down while drawing my dagger.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Deschain said:
Oh yea, the answer in 4e is you don't.

So a superior in the Church asks me to infiltrate a rebel group and figure out what their plan is. To observe them, I make a ghillie suit out of trash to hide in an alleyway. Our party manages to infiltrate them but the only way they'll trust us is by kidnapping someone for them. It turns out the kidnappings are to lure a group of high level paladin agents to an ambush, upon which their armor will be forcibly taken and used as a disguise to gain access to some corrupt clerics who are trying to install an illegitimate heir (so basically the rebels were the good guys). As a paladin of the Church, kidnapping a merchant was something I could not do. I did not believe in committing evil to stop evil. There was only one thing left for me to do.

I had to become my alter ego, a Lucha Libre wrestler named EL PALADINO NEGRO, whose only purpose in life was to best opponents in the ring of combat. Along with an enterprising bard, we delivered the merchant as a prisoner to the group. The Church paladins show up later and are ambushed by the rebels. Despite being a member of the Church, the alter ego EL PALADINO NEGRO has no complications with grappling in the ring with the paladins. We successfully subdue then and suddenly my party starts attacking the rebels as well. I'm pretty confused right now but EL PALADINO NEGRO has no such qualms and asks the nearest mage if he was a Luchador. The confused mage replies no and EL PALADINO responds, "You are now." and begins grapplin' and stabbing. The party basically finishes off the entire room and now we have two sides worth of dead/unconscious combatants. Somehow the bard gets us out of trouble and we get a reward. I turn back into a normal paladin and act like nothing happened. And since the description of 'a wrestler with a luchador mask and black scale mail calling him EL PALADIN NEGRO' and 'a paladin with a warhammer, glaive, and shining plate armor' are quite different, the Church was none the wiser.

Grappling kind of sucks in 4e though. Couldn't do any of the cool things like pinning or hitting them with their own fists.
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I'm suddenly reminded of my Luchadore I made for a Deadlands campaign. He was basically a Martial Artist (so he had crazy powers) but instead of taking an Eastern Martial Art, he had Luchalibra as his fighting style. His greatest moment? Using Monkey Goes Up the Mountain (Basically Super jumping) to jump to the top of a telegraph pole, then back flipping off the top of it and body slamming into a gunmen.

It ether that or using Jade King's Stance (you assume a "threatening" position and get a bonus to Overawe, which lets you intimidate people) to scare a bunch of bankrobbers. Said position? Basically every Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage pose EVER.
 
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