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something something Godwin's Law

Feb 4, 2022#1

Tinwhistler

I know that Godwin's Law is invoked to showcase when heated debate gets too hyperbolic because people start throwing around the Nazi comparison.

But you know, sometimes people make it so hard.

Do These Pics Show Book Burnings in 1933 and 2022?

The photo comparison made it to the top of the front page of Reddit on Feb. 4, 2022.

www.snopes.com

Feb 4, 2022#2

PatrThom

Oh, I saw it.
And that suggests we're 5 years or less to WW3.

--Patrick

Feb 4, 2022#3

Tinwhistler

PatrThom said:
Oh, I saw it.
And that suggests we're 5 years or less to WW3.

--Patrick

I'm a lot less disbelieving of that thought than I might have been a few short years ago.

Feb 4, 2022#4

GasBandit

It's only godwin's law if one of the things being compared aren't literal Nazis.

Jul 9, 2022#5

figmentPez

Comments about the Holocaust from representative sponsoring 'divisive concepts' bill raise concerns

"You should talk about these atrocities that have happened in history, but you also do have an obligation to point out the value that each individual brings to the table,"
...
"Maybe you're listening to it from the perspective of a Jewish person that has gone through the tragedies that took place, and maybe you listen to it from the perspective of a German soldier."

The Ohio legislator who said this, Sarah Fowler Arthur, was homeschooled and never went to college. Someone without a college education is trying to decide how an entire state teaches history, and thinks it's important to see the point of view of a German soldier helping to commit genocide.

"Fowler Arthur's team refused to do a follow-up interview to allow her to clarify her comments and help the News 5 viewers understand how HB 327 could impact the teaching of subjects like the Holocaust."

Jul 9, 2022#6

PatrThom

FWIW, I believe people should be taught the point of view of that German soldier, to better understand his motivation.
And they should also be taught that that view is wrong.

--Patrick

Jul 9, 2022#7

figmentPez

PatrThom said:
FWIW, I believe people should be taught the point of view of that German soldier, to better understand his motivation.
And they should also be taught that that view is wrong.

--Patrick

Unfortunately, right and wrong are divisive concepts, and someone with German ancestors might feel bad if they're told that Germany did something bad.

Jul 9, 2022#8

Terrik

figmentPez said:
Unfortunately, right and wrong are divisive concepts, and someone with German ancestors might feel bad if they're told that Germany did something bad.

A surprisingly common world view. Pretty much the route every single Asian country's history textbooks take (democracy or not) when discussing "sensitive historical matters."

Jul 9, 2022#9

Ravenpoe

figmentPez said:
The Ohio legislator who said this, Sarah Fowler Arthur, was homeschooled and never went to college.

This is code for grew up as a christofascist.

Jul 10, 2022#10

figmentPez

"Anne Frank had white privilege"

Okay, I've had enough internet for today. No more for me, thanks.

Jul 10, 2022#11

Just Me

figmentPez said:
Unfortunately, right and wrong are divisive concepts, and someone with German ancestors might feel bad if they're told that Germany did something bad.

Oh no, won't somebody think of the children? /s
It's been a few (well, lots) years sinde I graduated but the Holocuast and who did it was hammered home well in german schools, also how history and society got to that point.
Of course that's at an age where one usually isn't interested in those things and you never know how teenagers learn from it or if they are simply bored after some point (my interest for history came much later, didn't care much for those lessons at school).

Jul 10, 2022#12

PatrThom

Just Me said:
you never know how teenagers learn from it or if they are simply bored after some point

I got the impression while I was there that some teens took the Holocaust lessons as an example of "badass counterculture," the same way Americans might think of biker gangs or drug dealers.

--Patrick

Jul 10, 2022#13

blotsfan

figmentPez said:
"Anne Frank had white privilege"

Okay, I've had enough internet for today. No more for me, thanks.

As far as I can tell it was just one rando who said that and then just the internet dunking on them.

Jul 11, 2022#14

evilmike

Jul 11, 2022#15

GasBandit

It's getting extremely Huxley out there.

Jul 11, 2022#16

Terrik

GasBandit said:
It's getting extremely Huxley out there.

Such a brave thing to post.

Jul 11, 2022#17

chris

OK, I already know about the one about Anne Frank but what about Frida Kahlo and Jojo Rabbit?

Jul 11, 2022#18

Tress

chris said:
OK, I already know about the one about Anne Frank but what about Frida Kahlo and Jojo Rabbit?

Buckle up, because this is a whole lotta dumb:

1) Frida Kahlo’s maternal heritage is from Mexico, but her father immigrated to Mexico from Germany when he was 19. This means she wasn’t *really* Mexican since only one half of her heritage has been in Mexico for generations. Since she had lighter colored skin, she doesn’t *deserve* to call herself Latina (or Latinx, if you prefer). Furthermore, her mother’s ancestry was from the area around Mexico City but her colorful dresses were from a culture traditionally around Oaxaca, about 280 miles southwest of Mexico City. Therefore she doesn’t have the *right* to wear the outfits.

2) Some Marvel fans didn’t like Thor: Love & Thunder. This started an ignorant complaint that he “ruins” every “serious” movie he writes or directs. That then lead to the notion that, because he played Hitler, he was an apologist for Nazis. Also, the idea that JoJo Rabbit had any comedy at all somehow means that the movie was sympathetic to Nazis (and anyone with half a brain who has seen it can attest how wrong that is).

Jul 11, 2022#19

chris

Tress said:
Buckle up, because this is a whole lotta dumb:

1) Frida Kahlo’s maternal heritage is from Mexico, but her father immigrated to Mexico from Germany when he was 19. This means she wasn’t *really* Mexican since only one half of her heritage has been in Mexico for generations. Since she had lighter colored skin, she doesn’t *deserve* to call herself Latina (or Latinx, if you’re an idiot). Furthermore, her mother’s ancestry was from the area around Mexico City but her colorful dresses were from a culture traditionally around Oaxaca, about 280 miles southwest of Mexico City. Therefore she doesn’t have the *right* to wear the outfits.

2) Some Marvel fans didn’t like Thor: Love & Thunder. This started an ignorant complaint that he “ruins” every “serious” movie he writes or directs. That then lead to the notion that, because he played Hitler, he was an apologist for Nazis. Also, the idea that JoJo Rabbit had any comedy at all somehow means that the movie was sympathetic to Nazis (and anyone with half a brain who has seen it can attest how wrong that is).

You are right. This is dumb.

1) I bet none of them are Mexican themselves.

2) They should tell that Mel Brooks.

Jul 11, 2022#20

Tress

chris said:
2) They should tell that Mel Brooks.

They would. A few people mentioned The Producers as failed satire that makes light of Nazism. Because, again, these idiots do not understand humor and have zero tolerance for anything they dislike even being acknowledged in any form. But thankfully they are a tiny minority (for now).

Jul 11, 2022#21

blotsfan

Lindsay Ellis did a video about The Producers and mocking the Nazis, and the conclusion at the end is basically “American History X and The Producers are both clearly anti-Nazi, but actual Nazis love American History X and hate the Producers.”

Jul 11, 2022#22

PatrThom

Every time I hear someone refer to “Jojo Rabbit,” my brain automatically wants to fill in, “…Your Life Is Calling.”

—Patrick

Jul 11, 2022#23

Cat

PatrThom said:
I got the impression while I was there that some teens took the Holocaust lessons as an example of "badass counterculture," the same way Americans might think of biker gangs or drug dealers.

--Patrick

At least drug dealers provide a service

Jul 11, 2022#24

PatrThom

Cat said:
At least drug dealers provide a service

Job creation?

—Patrick

Jul 11, 2022#25

Cat

PatrThom said:
Job creation?

—Patrick

I don't know any that are hiring

Jul 12, 2022#26

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
It's only godwin's law if one of the things being compared aren't literal Nazis.

The law, as originally stated, make no mention of the validity of teh comparison.

It simply stated that, as a convo on the net goes on, the comparison to nazis will eventually come up.

So it doesn't apply when the subject is a comparison to nazis from the get go.

Jul 12, 2022#27

@Li3n

figmentPez said:
"Anne Frank had white privilege"

Okay, I've had enough internet for today. No more for me, thanks.

Well, while she herself didn't actually benefit from any sort of privilege, there's a reason why you've heard of her story, but not that of any gypsy that also went through the Holocaust.

But i'm guessing that's not the argument being put forth, is it.

Jul 12, 2022#28

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
The law, as originally stated, make no mention of the validity of teh comparison.

It simply stated that, as a convo on the net goes on, the comparison to nazis will eventually come up.

So it doesn't apply when the subject is a comparison to nazis from the get go.

The law as evolved is "as soon as someone compares someone to a nazi, the other side has basically won the discussion."

So if the conversation is already about nazis, the concept of "Godwinning" a discussion is moot.

Jul 12, 2022#29

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
The law as evolved is "as soon as someone compares someone to a nazi, the other side has basically won the discussion."

Hence my use of the word "originally"

GasBandit said:
So if the conversation is already about nazis, the concept of "Godwinning" a discussion is moot.

As i already said above...

Jul 12, 2022#30

blotsfan

Halforums law: any conversation will eventually degrade into arguing over incredibly obscure nerd shit.

Jul 12, 2022#31

Bubble181

blotsfan said:
Halforums law: any conversation will eventually degrade into arguing over incredibly obscure nerd shit.

Or steak. Steak isn't nerdy.

Jul 12, 2022#32

Frank

blotsfan said:
Halforums law: any conversation will eventually degrade into pedantry

Jul 12, 2022#33

MindDetective

The irony of this quote-edit is marvelous.

Jul 12, 2022#34

Frank

I had only posted a normal response but then it tickled me pink to remember just how much Blotsfan likes it when people do that.

Jul 12, 2022#35

Krisken

Lol, I'm not sure who hates that more, him or me.

Jul 12, 2022#36

Cat

Bubble181 said:
Or steak. Steak isn't nerdy.

In can be when you're telling people they're doing it wrong

Jul 13, 2022#37

blotsfan

Frank said:
I had only posted a normal response but then it tickled me pink to remember just how much Blotsfan likes it when people do that.

I think I only dislike it when I was making a specific point and it was “corrected” to be more generic and also the opposite of what I was saying.

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