Space Engineers

GasBandit

Staff member
Yeah, Decoys are nasty if deployed right. A nasty tactic for multi ship fights is to have someone bring in a fat, slow ship full of decoys and heavy armor and then just have them soak up shots while your boys go to work.

It's also worth mentioning that remote control and remote cameras aren't working in multi, last I heard.
They are working. I saved my own ass once when my cockpit was destroyed by jerry-rigging a passenger seat to the outside of my fighter and remote controlling it via the antenna.

I understand about the video thing. The text dump was great as it was. Thanks!

How's glass btw? Better than light armour, or worse? I would HOPE it's worse than heavy armour.


Also, is there any good primer on remote control, and what you can do with that? What antennaes are useful for is still a bit... huh? I guess I could mess around, but this is easier. ;)
Ok, now that I am safely ensconced once again at my desk, I can continue.


"Built" weapons (AKA torpedoes/shells)

A torpedo is simply a (usually) unguided ship with a thruster or grav drive on override. A shell is just a torpedo which doesn't have its own locomotion but instead is "fired" (usually by having an artificial mass block affected by the shooter's grav gens).

While it is possible to make these in small size, small torps/shells are almost entirely ineffective vs large ships/stations, especially if the targets are heavily armed and armored.

Pros:
Highest damage potential in the game
Extremely configurable to the situation - very adaptable
In multiplayer, huge psychological effect on enemies (OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT) making them less effective in combat/less likely to piss you off
Potentially unlimited range (my faction leader claims to have hit a beaconed enemy from 50km with a torpedo once)

Cons:
Most expensive weapon in the game - you're basically building a throwaway ship
Extremely slow - subject to being intercepted/shot down
In multiplayer, lag/sync issues dictate you MUST be motionless to fire.
Aiming required dead reckoning skill - no auto tracking, no red laser dot

Parts:
Small Reactor - every torpedo or shell requires power, and won't move without it.
Locomotion - either a thruster or Artificial Mass with a grav generator - Grav gens are generally faster but also subject to being deflected by enemy's gravity fields.
Stabilization gyro (optional) - prevents torp from changing heading due to being bumped, adds a lot of mass (which is a good thing usually)

Warheads:

Standard explosive warhead:
Pros: Wide area splash damage, optional timed detonation
Cons: attracts turret fire, not as good vs heavy armor as it used to be, expensive (uses lots of magnesium and uranium)

Kinetic warhead:
Pros: Cheap - usually can be made with iron alone (and possibly even a single steel plate), does not attract/is largely unaffected by turret fire, devastating vs stations
Cons: damage is localized, possible to deflect if hit at an oblique angle, less effective vs ships with dampeners off (nudges them away instead of penetrates).
More info:


which brings me to-

Refinery warhead:
Pros: Largest damage of any kinetic warhead, some explosion damage
Cons: can attract turrets, expensive if built all the way, large in size so your torpedo bay needs to be large to handle it, requires more thrust to get moving.

Decoy warhead:
Pros: useful for attracting turret fire away from your actual ships on an assault
Cons: generally doesn't do damage

Rock Payload (cargo bay filled with 3 stacks of unprocessed, mined stone)
Pros: comparatively inexpensive, extremely devastating
Cons: Pain in the ass to build, hassle to keep stone from being automatically turned into gravel by refineries, rock usually has to be put in 1 armload at a time which takes forever.
More info:

(note the multiple stacks of rock turn into multiple boulders, which the physics engine then tries to shove away from each other, causing more damage)[DOUBLEPOST=1420564994,1420564621][/DOUBLEPOST]
Glass is worthless right now except against small arms.
It's still better than being exposed to space, if you need to see in first person to fire something (torpedoes), though. It WILL stop gatling projectiles for a few seconds.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Info on armor, etc:

Bulletproof Glass/Catwalk: largely impervious to 5.56mm ammo (assault rifles and interior turrets), will only stand up to scattered/short bursts of 25x184mm (gatling) ammo, devastated by explosive/kinetic damage

Interior wall: As above, slightly more resilient to gatling ammo, but not explosive/kinetic. Waste of a block if you ask me. High amounts of polygons can hurt performance. Supposedly has the "pro" of built-in light source, but interior light block only costs 1 construction component so no real benefit IMO.

Light Armor: As above, plus can withstand sustained burst of gatling ammo, but not for more than a few seconds of concentrated fire (especially vs multiple turrets, which happens often). Cheap as heck to build, and light, so good for utility vessels and better than nothing for light fighters.

Heavy Armor: Can take extreme amounts of punishment from all damage sources save kinetic. Many times heavier than light armor in mass - prolific use of heavy armor has a very noticeable effect on maneuverability. Takes much more iron to construct (but still, it's just iron/steel plates, no shortage of that).

Blast Door: 90% of the HP of heavy armor with none of the deformation on damage. Only attaches at a max of 4 points, however. "Blows up" on destruction, kinda. Good for ramming, torpedo kinetic warheads, and more resilient to ramming than heavy armor. However, dangerous to your own ship if it "gets loose" and floats around.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
On antennas vs beacons and remote control -

Beacons merely broadcast a location signal - If it is on, and you are in its broadcast range, you see where it is and what it is named.

Antennas are 2-way.

Antennas will receive beacon data and other antenna data, and retransmit it to any friendly antenna within its broadcast radius. Thus, you can create a chain or network of antenna buoys that will let you see transmissions from farther away than the maximum broadcast range (50km currently).

Antennas will also allow remote user access to control panels of the entity to which it is attached - provided it is within the broadcast range of the controller as well (the spacesuit has a broadcast radius of 200m, so even if the antenna is set to broadcast 50km, you must be within 200m to access systems or remote control if you are not in a ship). To use this function, access your own suit's inventory/control panel with I or K, then pulldown the menu in the top left, and select what you want to control from the available choices (names will be based on the names entered on the info panel of the entity in question).

An entity can be remote controlled if it has both an antenna and a remote control module. This can be accomplished by accessing the system via the antenna as described above, going to the control panel, selecting the remote control module and hitting the "control" button. The screen will change back to your player's perspective, but your movement keys and mouse will affect the entity being controlled instead of yourself, and a new hotkey bar (empty usually to start) will be on your screen. Your G menu will be as if you were in the cockpit of what you are controlling, so you can add weapons/tools/etc.

To get a first person perspective aboard the ship you are controlling, you will need to install a camera from the vantage you wish to view, then add its "view" function to the hotbar while remote controlling it. The camera view will be grainy and have no crosshairs.

Simply hit "T" to return to controlling yourself.
 
I believe interior walls are much lighter than light armor blocks, which is useful to keep weight down if you need to partition rooms... but you know what is even lighter? Bullet proof glass and catwalks, which can be used to make rooms if placed creatively. They offer NO protection, but are still useful if you want separate compartments.
 
Good description of remotes and remote control. That'd be something to have a tutorial video on, as the basics of that (and what all can be remote-controlled) is probably not going to radically change.

For the antennae thing, I remember reading something about factions? How do you control what that broadcasts? And for beacons as well? I remember that was one weird thing from your "intro to PvP" video, about how people NEEDED to have beacons, or it'd be deleted. I was thinking that didn't that just break hiding bases? Or what?

Thanks for being so complete. Good info today.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
On Ramming -

Ramming is, obviously, causing damage by colliding with another entity. The simplest form of ramming is just to build up speed and then strike your target with whichever part of your ship is most heavily armored.

But here are some tips for better ramming.

1) Make a ramming mast/bill.
A long 1x1 heavy armor ramming mast does much better to reach delicate internals than a broad flat surface does. It has to chew through less armor, and if it is destroyed or breaks off, the collateral loss to your own ship is minimized, and the remnant of the mast will continue to float inside the target, doing further collision damage as it drifts/rattles around.

2) Tip your ramming mast/bill with a blast door edge
Blast door blocks have 90% of the HP of heavy armor, but have an important advantage here -they do not deform on damage. They retain their shape until completely destroyed. Thus, they cut through even heavy armor like play-dough, and usually survive the encounter!

3) Ram slowly.
The faster you travel in Space Engineers, the more "wonky" things get, especially in regards to physics. While the affects all aspects of gameplay, the part that matters to ramming is what's called "phasing." If you ram at maximum speed (104.7 m/s), chances are a good amount of your ramming mast (or even your ship itself) will "phase" into the other ship because it's travelling so fast that the position changes further in 1 processing tick than where a collision would have taken place. This can cause unpredictable effects and massive damage both to the rammer and the rammed. Generally, I find the best ramming speed to be between 20-50 m/s. The blast door edge tip of the ramming mast will still part heavy armor like the folds of a willing woman, and the heavy armor mast will suffer less damage on both the insertion thrust and the backstroke.

Well, that went to an interesting place, didn't it.

Anyway...

4) Aim for the refinery or the reactor.
Refineries blow up REAL good, and people have a bad habit of using them as structure as well. Poking the refinery of a respawn ship at 20m/s generally reduces it to confetti. Reactors are also juicy targets - true, a ship can have more than 1 reactor, so poking one won't guarantee a disabling blow, but it's rare that people build more reactor power into a ship than is absolutely needed for its most heavy maneuvers... so taking out even one or two reactors (especially if that one reactor is a large reactor) can seriously impede or cripple an enemy vessel, which will give you more ramming opportunities

5) Armor your soft bits
While ramming, chances are your target will have turrets that shoot back. Turrets like to prioritize the closest component with computers in it (or a decoy if you have one). cover everything you can in heavy armor, and maybe tack on a decoy wrapped in armor off to the side if you don't already have one, to keep your ship in fighting shape for the longer fights. Otherwise you might lose all your turrets while you ram, if you bother building any on a ship built for ramming.

6) Try to touch up your ramming mast between fights.
This should be self evident... you want the ram to have max HP when combat begins

7) If you get attacked by guys in suits and have no turrets, spin.
Funniest kill I ever got was when I whacked an assailant in a suit who was trying to grind me with my ram mast like a baseball bat... sent his corpse flying out into the void. Home run![DOUBLEPOST=1420569245,1420568943][/DOUBLEPOST]
For the antennae thing, I remember reading something about factions? How do you control what that broadcasts? And for beacons as well? I remember that was one weird thing from your "intro to PvP" video, about how people NEEDED to have beacons, or it'd be deleted. I was thinking that didn't that just break hiding bases? Or what?

Thanks for being so complete. Good info today.
The faction stuff only comes into play on relaying data antenna to antenna. A hostile player cannot "access" your controls via your antenna, and your antennas will not relay data they receive to players outside your faction. However, beacons and antennas themselves are still visible to all players regardless of faction that are within the broadcast radius. So, if you build a chain of antennas, a player in your faction will see the broadcasts of all your antennas (and any broadcasts they pick up) just by being in range of any 1 antenna... however, a player not in your faction will only see the one antenna of which he is in the broadcast range.

The PVP beacon thing is, most servers do garbage cleanup by deleting floating debris during server reboot once (or twice) a day. How it determines what is debris is mostly based on whether or not it has a beacon on it. However, the beacon doesn't have to be powered, turned on, or even finished - you can place the frame of a beacon with just 1 steel plate, and it counts for "don't delete this" purposes.
 
My advice on ramming: if you have a tendency to dig too deeply when you ram (i.e. you almost go the entire length of the ram), you can build a cross guard on the ram (like on a sword) to act as an emergency bumper. This is sort of like training wheels for ramming.
 
3) Ram slowly.
The faster you travel in Space Engineers, the more "wonky" things get, especially in regards to physics. While the affects all aspects of gameplay, the part that matters to ramming is what's called "phasing." If you ram at maximum speed (104.7 m/s), chances are a good amount of your ramming mast (or even your ship itself) will "phase" into the other ship because it's travelling so fast that the position changes further in 1 processing tick than where a collision would have taken place. This can cause unpredictable effects and massive damage both to the rammer and the rammed. Generally, I find the best ramming speed to be between 20-50 m/s. The blast door edge tip of the ramming mast will still part heavy armor like the folds of a willing woman, and the heavy armor mast will suffer less damage on both the insertion thrust and the backstroke.

Well, that went to an interesting place, didn't it.
Playing too much Academy maybe? ;)

Thanks for the advice. From what I'm getting about antennae, they always broadcast location? No "stealth" antennae just for your faction? Good to know if I ever decide to pvp.

I'm going to mess around with remote controls and such. For single-player, seems like a smart thing to put on ALL ships just so that you can find it if you die, but the ship isn't a total loss. Or something. Either way, thanks.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Also, some people try to incorporate an explosive warhead behind the tip of the ram, with the idea to push the bomb into the internals past the armor, then set it off inside. IMO this never works out as intended, the warhead usually goes off prematurely, especially if the enemy has turrets. Even an assault rifle shot will set off a warhead.[DOUBLEPOST=1420570099,1420569722][/DOUBLEPOST]
Playing too much Academy maybe? ;)
Or maybe not enough! It's been weeks, practically!

Thanks for the advice. From what I'm getting about antennae, they always broadcast location? No "stealth" antennae just for your faction? Good to know if I ever decide to pvp.
That's correct. No stealth, just data encryption... and no matter how encrypted the signal, the bearing and range of the signal is always detectable, so long as you're within the broadcast radius.

I'm going to mess around with remote controls and such. For single-player, seems like a smart thing to put on ALL ships just so that you can find it if you die, but the ship isn't a total loss. Or something. Either way, thanks.
It was more important before there was an "inertial dampeners" checkbox on the control panel for every control chair/cockpit. In multiplayer, for a while, if you got knocked out of your ship and it was adrift, the only way you could get it to stop again was via remote control. But now you can just check the "inertial dampeners" box on any cockpit, flight seat, control station or remote control module.

Drones are the flavor of the month. Lots of guys seem to like the idea of sitting comfy in a seat and remote controlling things like welder, grinder, or combat drones - you could even turn a full mining ship into a drone, I suppose. And though it has been buggy in the past, the theory is that you can remote-control ships even through a daisy chain of antenna buoys. So if you have good antenna network coverage throughout your area, you can pilot any ship you want so long as it stays in its broadcast range of an antenna in that relay network.

Bear in mind maximum broadcast range for ships varies by size... 50km for large antennas, 5km for small.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Here's a visual representation of the antenna detection methods -


Assuming both YOU and ENEMY have Antennas broadcasting at max range (an entity is invisible to antennas if it doesn't broadcast an antenna or beacon signal), basically it works like this.

You, sitting back at base, see all your antennas (green dots) and the neutral beacon. If the enemy bright red dot is broadcasting, you see him too. If he is not broadcasting, or has no antenna/beacon, you do not see him. He does not see you under any circumstances - in fact, he only sees the green dot closest to him, the neutral beacon, and his own antennas behind him in red dots. You, however, do not see his antennas because they are not within broadcast range of your antennas.
 
Here's a visual representation of the antenna detection methods -


Assuming both YOU and ENEMY have Antennas broadcasting at max range (an entity is invisible to antennas if it doesn't broadcast an antenna or beacon signal), basically it works like this.

You, sitting back at base, see all your antennas (green dots) and the neutral beacon. If the enemy bright red dot is broadcasting, you see him too. If he is not broadcasting, or has no antenna/beacon, you do not see him. He does not see you under any circumstances - in fact, he only sees the green dot closest to him, the neutral beacon, and his own antennas behind him in red dots. You, however, do not see his antennas because they are not within broadcast range of your antennas.
Shouldn't the enemy be able to see one of your green antennae (as red though of course)? The closest one to him?
 

GasBandit

Staff member
He does not see you under any circumstances - in fact, he only sees the green dot closest to him, the neutral beacon, and his own antennas behind him in red dots. You, however, do not see his antennas because they are not within broadcast range of your antennas.
Sorry if that was worded ambiguously. Yes, he sees the closest "green" antenna's broadcast, though it will show up in red to him (as hostile)
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Some badly needed fixes today in 1.064 - people were cheatin' it up with the programmable blocks, spawning instant items in survival with no assembler needed, and making viral payloads that could disable an enemy's defenses/power/doors/turrets/etc without respect to ownership. Also IFF for sensors is nice. We'll have to see how modding maximum speed goes... last I heard, there was a reason ships were limited to 104.

Summary
Sensors can now detect ownership and distinguish friends from enemies. Also, we added the option to set the view distance in the worlds - this will help players to improve the game’s performance. Additionally, the max speed of ships can also be modified. Lastly, we have made some improvements for the Programmable block; from now on, it respects ownership settings and requires electricity in order to function.



Features
- sensor ownership recognition (distinguishes friends from enemies)
- new world setting: view distance (this will help players to improve the game’s performance)
- added splash screen which indicates that the game is starting
- moddable max speed for ships

Modding guide for ship speed: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=371554858

Fixes
- fixed issues with asteroid mining creating tiny pieces of asteroids near surface
- fixed amount of uranium in default respawn ships so that they are able to work in infinite worlds
- fixed drilling memory leaks
- fixed blueprints menu issues
- fixed issue with clients not able to see the changes in the script
- fixed particle effect for meteors
- fixed advanced world settings menu layout for supported resolutions
- fixed handler executes even after the script has already ended
- fixed ore detector detecting ores better
- fixed asteroids getting smaller in distance

Programmable block changes
- added Projector to guide
- removed actions from ingame scripting
- removed adding, and deleting items in inventories, only transferTo and transferFrom is possible
- transferTo and TransferFrom respects conveyor system
- programmable block can access only shared blocks
- when ownership is changed, program needs to be recompiled
- programmable block needs power
- updated emissivity for programmable block
- added icon for run action
- removed system.Timer
- fixed issue with get block with name
- fixed crash with structs
- fixed crash with static methods and variables
- fixed critical component set wrongly for programmable block
 
Some badly needed fixes today in 1.064 - people were cheatin' it up with the programmable blocks, spawning instant items in survival with no assembler needed, and making viral payloads that could disable an enemy's defenses/power/doors/turrets/etc without respect to ownership. Also IFF for sensors is nice. We'll have to see how modding maximum speed goes... last I heard, there was a reason ships were limited to 104.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Yeah, reports are already coming in on the subreddit that boosting the max speed to 5 or even 300 m/s is causing objects to phase into each other like crazy on collision.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
If you play on a dedicated server, be sure to turn your projectors off when you're not using them. Projections have been spontaneously materializing to solid at random. If it happens within a ship that is already built, the result is... bad.

 

GasBandit

Staff member
Ugh. I was afraid they'd be announcing a new game today. Hopefully this isn't the beginning of the end for Space Engineers, but it very well might be.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
What I posted in the reddit thread -

This announcement fills me with dread. They've already put SE on 50% sales and free weekends, the optics were a dev house with an alpha product running out of money. Now we learn they've been diverting resources all along to develop a new IP. Meanwhile, SE's multiplayer is still a laggy, desynced parade of bugs.

To anyone who's got the bright light of optimistic fanboyism in their eyes still, about how KSW "won't do that to us," bear in mind they've already done it once. Go read the steam reviews for Miner Wars 2081. It was their previous game, also early-access released, that one day they simply abandoned and called it released - and copy-pasted a lot of the game assets over to their next project, space engineers.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Well, guess I'm done with this dev.
Grim as it looks, I'm holding out a sliver of hope they won't chuck SE on the fire, at least until they iron out some more bugs (especially the ammo bug) and finish the UI (Seriously, STILL can't scroll back chat text after all this time?). But I definitely won't be buying Medieval Engineers unless they really do right by Space Engineers beforehand.

Because if they drop the ball on SE like they did on Miner Wars, you have to ask, at what stage will they drop the ball on MedEngi?
 
Grim as it looks, I'm holding out a sliver of hope they won't chuck SE on the fire, at least until they iron out some more bugs (especially the ammo bug) and finish the UI (Seriously, STILL can't scroll back chat text after all this time?). But I definitely won't be buying Medieval Engineers unless they really do right by Space Engineers beforehand.

Because if they drop the ball on SE like they did on Miner Wars, you have to ask, at what stage will they drop the ball on MedEngi?
Oh yeah, I'll definitely keep playing Space Engineers - you know, when I have time to play anything - because they already have my money on that one. What's not playing going to do, aside from deny me the fun of using a product I already own? I just won't be buying anything else they put out.
 
Unless you can do something other than just build stuff, it's just a different looking Minecraft.
Exactly. You want to let me build crazy, rolling siege machines in which to attack enemy fortresses? I'd be down for THAT. But if all you are going to give me is a basic treb to fight with, why bother?

The entire strength of Space Enginners is it lets me build whatever I want, be it a base or a vehicle or whatever. This doesn't have that.
 
Well, we'll get to hear Jay weigh in on it now that they've entered his territory.

--Patrick
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Oh well..

How excited am I?

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3 concerns

- Dev is still working on Space Engineers or not? What's their project plan?
- Dev has a shit record on Q/A for Space Engineers
- As much as I like medieval stuff, I'll be honest, I need more info.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Update 1.065 Summary
Communication has been added. More specifically, it is player-to-player and faction-to-faction chat with history. The player should be within the antenna’s range in order to successfully broadcast/receive the messages. Offline mode is also available - send a message to players who are out of range; in this case the message will be marked as 'not delivered' and will stay “pending” until the player gets into range.
When sending messages to faction, it's enough to deliver the message to one member who will automatically forward it to the others. There's also broadcast which will immediately send a message to everybody within the antenna’s range.
Additionally, the in-game programming has been improved. It's now possible to set block properties, such as light color, rotor velocity, limits, etc. Basically anything what is slider in terminal can be set by a script directly as value (list of available properties will be published soon). Also '.bat' file for creating new script mod has been added. This '.bat' file creates new Visual Studio project with references and example script in local mod folder (AppData\SpaceEngineers\Mods\).



Features
- communication – chat between players and factions
- in-game programming improvements
- script mod templates
- world view distance in join screen

Script modding guide: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=375363611
Programmable block guide: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=360966557

Fixes
- fixed 1x1 suspension wheels on large grid
- fixed meteor wave timer values in GlobalEvents.sbc still not being read
- fixed blast door not showing in "small blocks" section
- fixed ShipMaxSpeed mods possible collision with some skybox mods
- fixed crash due to drifting ship in save file
- fixed particle effects are displaced


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The comms thing is neat. Wonder if it supplants the existing chat interface. I kinda hope it does.
 
Fix ammo consumption on dedicated servers? Or is that old news? I've read about it, but not played around with and/or tried to make it happen.
 
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