Speed Doesn't Kill, Bad Drivers Do

[Eriol]

Found this editorial in my local paper, and I thought it really hit the nail on the head:

Speed doesn't kill, bad drivers do

By KERRY DIOTTE

Last Updated: 30th July 2009, 1:39am

We need a whole new approach in the fight to make roads safer in Alberta.

That's glaringly obvious in the wake of just-released Alberta motor vehicle crash statistics.

You know how we're constantly lectured that \"speed kills?\"

Well, the latest stats show speed is not the demon it's cracked up to be when it comes to crashes.

The provincial stats revealed the true villain casing the majority of crashes is none other than driver error. That was listed as a \"contributing factor\" in 90% of all of the 158,055 Alberta crashes in 2008.

And what about that demon, speed? According to the new annual study of traffic stats, it was only a \"contributing factor\" in 26% of the accidents.

There's an obvious question that should be raised in light of that.

Why then do we as a society see so much of our traffic safety enforcement resources put toward catching speeders?

Given driver error was a contributing factor in 90% of the collisions, wouldn't it be better to toughen up driver testing or see more cops patrolling streets looking for driving infractions than manning speed traps?

The head of the U.S.-based National Motorist Association (NMA) -- that has 6,000 members including some in every Canadian province -- figures police should put the bulk of their traffic cops into patrolling streets watching for bad drivers and officials should quit trying to brainwash the public that drunk driving and speeding are the two biggest enemies of traffic safety. (Not that we should ever stop the war against drunk drivers or those seriously exceeding speed limits.)

\"If they were honest they would point out that neither speeding nor driving under the influence have a whole lot to do with the majority of traffic accidents that occur,\" NMA president Jim Baxter told me.

\"It has much more to do with drivers who are distracted by cellphones or kids in their car and so on.

\"If people would pay more attention to what they're doing when they drive, it would result in a major decrease in accidents,\" said Baxter.

\"It's not a question of someone going 10 or 15 kmh over the speed limit. And if you could get (officials) in a private room they'd probably admit that.

\"Law enforcement in traffic control areas spends the bulk of its resources in speed enforcement.

And how can you justify that? By making speed the most evil thing that's out there.\"

His organization quotes U.S. studies showing speeding is the direct cause of only 4% of all accidents and, despite publicity over drunk driving, that unacceptable behaviour directly sparks only 7% of crashes.

The latest Alberta stats say drunk drivers were a contributing factor in less than 3% of all injury accidents and 13.7% of all fatal accidents in 2008.

\"If speed causes 3% to 4% of crashes, somebody might ask why there's all the emphasis on speed enforcement,\" he said.

\"Could it be because you want to generate revenue?\"

Baxter correctly points out statistics can often be misleading or taken out of context by some people when it comes to the issues of speeding and drunk driving.

That's not to say we shouldn't continue to make drunk driving socially unacceptable. If only one person is killed annually by a drunk, that's one person too many.

But if we truly want to make roads safer let's target the biggest problem -- distracted drivers and plain bad drivers.

After all, driver error is listed as a contributing factor in 90% of all crashes in Alberta -- and that's a stat we can't ignore.

KERRY.DIOTTE@SUNMEDIA.CA

I agree with this guy. The people who are all going 10kph over the limit are NOT a problem, it's the people going BELOW the limit, or blindly changing lanes, or going 50% more than the limit that are the problems, not the people obeying the maxim of "pass in the left lane, and if you're in the left lane and getting gained on, you change lanes to let them go by no matter WHAT speed you or they are going."

Other opinions?

 

[Shegokigo]

You think police are heavily into Speed Traps because it's for the safety of the citizens? :blue:

 

[ElJuski]

Popo gotta get funded yo :angry:

 

[Shegokigo]

Popo gotta get funded yo :angry:

Government sure as hell not gonna pay them what they deserve.

 

[Lally]

My dream world is where cops go after dickheads. (yes, I dream big) I don't care if someone is speeding (although I drive the speed limit or just above because I honestly believe going any faster than that would inhibit my ability to stop quickly if I needed to), but when people drive like sociopaths and cut people off, swerve across all lanes of traffic, don't bother using their turn signals and just bully their way in, speed their way up lanes that are ending/merging just to get ahead, and god knows what else, just to get a little bit farther ahead in traffic... let's just say I have a bit of road rage. In my experience, the people who speed more than 10 or 20 over ARE the people that do all these things.

So, I'm not okay with the way things are now, but that's not because cops pull over for speeding. It's because cops don't pull over ENOUGH for speeding. There have been way too many times I've seen cops going 20 over themselves, ignoring people that are going 20-30 over all around them. That brings out my road rage too.

 

[Singularity.EXE]

I completely agree with the article and bitch about it often. I have been driving for five years thus far, often exceeding the speed limit by 15-20 MPH and have never, ever come close to getting in a car accident. (And no, I don't believe in jynxes so shut up.)

I've thought about a tiered driver's license, where someone people would be liscensed to drive at higher speeds based off driving ability, but that would never, ever work.

 

[Jay]

The best way people can be caught doing illegal things is through the means of an undercover cop car. Most people can see a cop car from far away and "behave accordingly" or when they others slowing down, odds are, they gave you a head's up that there's a cop car. Many times, people heading in the opposite direction flash their beams to give the upcoming drive a head's up that a cop is around the corner with a speed gun.

As a normal citizen who drives, let me tell you the worst of drivers are :

1. Women : Despite lower insurance, most women are overly careful drivers and they cause other drivers to be agitated.
2. People talking on cells : People forget they are driving and drive with one hand and occasionally displaying hand gestures to themselves as the person who's talking to them can't see their retardation.
3. SUV drivers : I drive an SUV and I hate other SUV drivers, they are arrogant and bold on the road.

My worst nightmare when I drive?

They need more undercover cop cars and they will hand out more tickets that way and people will learn to drive properly, at all times because the car beside them might pull them over with a ticket. They should make it so that you have to retake your driving exam every 7 years.

 

[Chazwozel]

You think police are heavily into Speed Traps because it's for the safety of the citizens? :blue:

Almost said the same thing. The whole idea behind a speed limit, isn't safety in the least bit. It's to fucking cash off people for the state.

 

[Shegokigo]

1. Women : Despite lower insurance, most women are overly careful drivers and they cause other drivers to be agitated.

I half expected you to say "Asians" after that number.

 

[ElJuski]

Yeah, how about fuck undercover cop cars. I don't need Big Brother snoping around in hiding waiting to drop a fat bill on my ass because the state is perpetually in debt.

1. Women : Despite lower insurance, most women are overly careful drivers and they cause other drivers to be agitated.

I half expected you to say "Asians" after that number.

Haha, THIS

 

[Jay]

I won't go into races, nothing productive will ever come out of that... unless you're Chris Rock.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

As a normal citizen who drives, let me go ahead and make a lot of moronic generalizations......

 

[Chazwozel]

Women drivers; no survivors.

You know I drive the highway everyday for 40 minutes. I refuse to answer my phone and if I do it's only quick 'hi, bye' conversations. If I do I'll pull into the slow lane too and kick down to the speed limit. (I usually haul ass at 90 mph).

I've seen women of all ages hold full ass conversations for those 40 minutes of travel at full speed, not paying attention to the road what so ever. I have yet to see a guy doing that.

 

[Piotyr]

And here I was under the impression that cops pulled people over for speeding because that's the easiest thing to catch.

Of course driver error accounts for most, if not all, collisions. The only thing speed does is give less time to avoid or correct the errors.

 

[Chazwozel]

And here I was under the impression that cops pulled people over for speeding because that's the easiest thing to catch.

Of course driver error accounts for most, if not all, collisions. The only thing speed does is give less time to avoid or correct the errors.

Only if you don't know what the hell you're doing in a high speed crash. Granted, there's a chance you can die, but knowing how to handle a tire blow out at 85 mph does help. For starters, KEEP BOTH GODDAMN HANDS ON THE STEERING WHEEL AT HIGH SPEEDS! No professional driver EVER drives one handed. That's something to take to the bank.

I agree with this article 100%

At high speeds common sense needs to be at an all time high. Don't duck in and out of traffic. Watch the right lane cars and ahead of the road, so the slow right lane car doesn't jump out in front of you. Mind the asshole behind you who wants to go faster than 90 mph. Let his ass pass you and back off for a while. It's all about recognizing your surroundings and avoiding potential disasters. Always look ahead at the road instead of the bumper of the car ahead of you.

I don't speed aggressively, I speed passively. If someone from the right lane gets over to the left to pass, I don't get up on their ass, I let them pass and then speed back up.

 

[Shegokigo]

I won't go into races, nothing productive will ever come out of that... unless you're Chris Rock.

Might as well have with your first comment. :eyeroll:

Juski: You wouldn't have to worry about big brother if you'd keep it under 100mph chief. :slywink:

 

[Piotyr]

And here I was under the impression that cops pulled people over for speeding because that's the easiest thing to catch.

Of course driver error accounts for most, if not all, collisions. The only thing speed does is give less time to avoid or correct the errors.

Only if you don't know what the * you're doing in a high speed crash. Granted, there's a chance you can die, but knowing how to handle a tire blow out at 85 mph does help. For starters, KEEP BOTH GODDAMN HANDS ON THE STEERING WHEEL AT HIGH SPEEDS! No professional driver EVER drives one handed. That's something to take to the bank.

Absolutely, but something like that is tough to enforce barring stricter driving tests. People are fucking idiots, and nobody can really be counted on to keep their shit together while driving, so the only alternative is to keep speed limits artificially low for the current quality of vehicle out there, and enforce something that's actually possible to enforce from the side of the road.

 

I think teenagers are the worst, but for various reasons. The Asians/Hispanics/African American bitch is always because they drive slowly. Not because they are doing anything wrong, just not getting the hell out of the way of your impatient ass.

Teenagers are the worst because the boys are trying to impress their friends and the girls are distracted by socialization. Maybe that's a generalization, but I've certainly seen it more often than not and it's a big factor in why I'm paying out the ass for insurance.

My kids both know that if they are ever in an accident it's fine. As long as everyone is okay I'm not going to be upset - with one caveat. If they were talkingon the cell phone or texting they will lose all driving privleges until they buy their own car & insurance. They will be dropped immediately from mine and not allowed to drive again. Same with drinking. If they have been drinking - which I have no issues with - and need a ride they can call at ANY HOUR and not get into trouble. But the minute they try and drive they lose the car. I am immovable on these.

But to say "women"? Jay, Jay, Jay.

 

[Piotyr]

The worst kind of drivers are:

1) People who are not of my gender
2) People who are not of my race
3) People younger than me
4) People older than me

 

The worst kind of drivers are:

1) People who are not of my gender
2) People who are not of my race
3) People younger than me
4) People older than me

FUCKIN' A!

 

[Chazwozel]

I think teenagers are the worst, but for various reasons. The Asians/Hispanics/African American * is always because they drive slowly. Not because they are doing anything wrong, just not getting the * out of the way of your impatient a**.

Teenagers are the worst because the boys are trying to impress their friends and the girls are distracted by socialization. Maybe that's a generalization, but I've certainly seen it more often than not and it's a big factor in why I'm paying out the a** for insurance.

My kids both know that if they are ever in an accident it's fine. As long as everyone is okay I'm not going to be upset - with one caveat. If they were talkingon the cell phone or texting they will lose all driving privleges until they buy their own car & insurance. They will be dropped immediately from mine and not allowed to drive again. Same with drinking. If they have been drinking - which I have no issues with - and need a ride they can call at ANY HOUR and not get into trouble. But the minute they try and drive they lose the car. I am immovable on these.

But to say "women"? Jay, Jay, Jay.

My sister-in-law has a Jeep Liberty, and only a few weeks ago figured out that she needs to pull the fly-lever to activate her 4 wheel drive. Women drivers suck! There are few and far between that can actually handle a car the way it's meant to be handled.

 

[Shegokigo]

I've seen black men of all ages hold full ass watermelons in their hands and eat them for those 40 minutes of travel at full speed, not paying attention to the road what so ever. I have yet to see a white guy doing that.

 

Bullshit, Chaz.

You know why insurance is cheaper for women? Because they have fewer accidents/tickets per capita! If they didn't their insurance rates would be greater. I'll go and try to find stats to back that up but come on, man!

 

[Chazwozel]

I've seen black men of all ages hold full a** watermelons in their hands and eat them for those 40 minutes of travel at full speed, not paying attention to the road what so ever. I have yet to see a white guy doing that.

I see where you're trying to take this, and I wish I was exaggerating...

 

[strawman]

Speeding Kills.

The following two items are fact (due to physics):

1. Higher speeds leave less room for driver error (ie, time to react to changing road conditions and other drivers)

2. Higher speeds result in greater injury and death when an accident does occur, regardless of driver error - further this is exponential, not linear.

The difference between hitting a solid wall at 30mph vs 40mph is nearly 2x the force applied to the human body in the deceleration. Hitting a pedestrian at 35 vs 25 in a neighborhood is, generally, the difference between life and death (yes, 25mph is somewhat a nice round number, but it's also very close to the speed at which you can accelerate a human head against a deformable car hood and still have a reasonable chance of living. Not against the bumper, though, which is quite unfortunately for toddlers.)

So while the article is correct in that speed is not the major CAUSE of accidents, it should be kept in mind that it is the major FACTOR in the severity of the crash - the other minor factors being axis of the force, frame and body crumple and deformation, safety and protective gear and equipment, etc.

Speed tops the list in determining just how bad an accident is, and does increase the likelihood of an accident.

-Adam

 

[Chazwozel]

Bullshit, Chaz.

You know why insurance is cheaper for women? Because they have fewer accidents/tickets per capita! If they didn't their insurance rates would be greater. I'll go and try to find stats to back that up but come on, man!

Don't get me wrong

It's cheaper for women up to a certain age, then shit levels out.

Teenage boys >>>>>>>>> Middle age women

But 40 year old soccer mom is fucked in a 70 mph tire blow out.

 

Interesting. From a John Hopkins report:

Overall, men were involved in 5.1 crashes per million miles driven compared to 5.7 crashes for women, despite the fact that on average they drove 74 percent more miles per year than did women.

The investigators determined that about half of the 3.1-fold difference between the sexes’ fatal crash involvement rates was due to the fact that males’ crashes were more severe. Another 40 percent was due to the fact that men, who on average drove many more miles than women, thus had a greater opportunity of being in a crash; and 8 percent because of gender differences in “crash incidence density,” the number of crashes per million person-miles.

Looking for more to back up my assertion of bullshit...but not finding any.

 

[Jay]

Sorry man, but it's true and I'm sticking to my guns.

I've been in 3 accidents in my life. Two times I was completely stopped for well over 10 seconds at a red light and rear-ended from women SUV drivers who failed to slow down. The other time my fiancee and I slowly started to stop at a railroad track with the train already passing and when we completely stopped we got rear-ended from a non-SUV woman driver. She was still talking on her cellphone when she came out of her car and was "bothered" by the situation but didn't want to finish her call. I called the police and informed them on the situation, another car behind her stayed behind to confirm she was on the phone and she was.... "more bothered" by the huge ticket she got and probabaly dealing with insurance.

 

[Shegokigo]

I've seen black men of all ages hold full a** watermelons in their hands and eat them for those 40 minutes of travel at full speed, not paying attention to the road what so ever. I have yet to see a white guy doing that.

I see where you're trying to take this, and I wish I was exaggerating...

This is the WoW argument all over again Chaz. Just because you've personally witnessed it more often than others, does not make your opinion fact. rly:

 

Even further, women have more accidents than men but men die more often because they tend to drive faster and more aggresively.

Looking at these statistics is very interesting.

 

[Jay]

My sister-in-law has a Jeep Liberty, and only a few weeks ago figured out that she needs to pull the fly-lever to activate her 4 wheel drive

I wish this was a joke but it's...so sad.

 

[Chazwozel]

Speeding Kills.

The following two items are fact (due to physics):

1. Higher speeds leave less room for driver error (ie, time to react to changing road conditions and other drivers)

2. Higher speeds result in greater injury and death when an accident does occur, regardless of driver error - further this is exponential, not linear.

The difference between hitting a solid wall at 30mph vs 40mph is nearly 2x the force applied to the human body in the deceleration. Hitting a pedestrian at 35 vs 25 in a neighborhood is, generally, the difference between life and death (yes, 25mph is somewhat a nice round number, but it's also very close to the speed at which you can accelerate a human head against a deformable car hood and still have a reasonable chance of living. Not against the bumper, though, which is quite unfortunately for toddlers.)

So while the article is correct in that speed is not the major CAUSE of accidents, it should be kept in mind that it is the major FACTOR in the severity of the crash - the other minor factors being axis of the force, frame and body crumple and deformation, safety and protective gear and equipment, etc.

Speed tops the list in determining just how bad an accident is, and does increase the likelihood of an accident.

-Adam

1. Only if you don't know how to drive at high speed. If you can't, don't do it. Again not claiming 100% deathproof, but if you know how to handle a high speed situation, you're better off. Most people don't.

2. Only if your car isn't made for it. A corvette at 150mph handles far better than a Honda Civic at 90mph. I'm not saying you can't die, but the risk is significantly lower when you drive a car made for speeding over a Ford P.O.S.

-- Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:44 am --

Interesting. From a John Hopkins report:

Overall, men were involved in 5.1 crashes per million miles driven compared to 5.7 crashes for women, despite the fact that on average they drove 74 percent more miles per year than did women.

The investigators determined that about half of the 3.1-fold difference between the sexes’ fatal crash involvement rates was due to the fact that males’ crashes were more severe. Another 40 percent was due to the fact that men, who on average drove many more miles than women, thus had a greater opportunity of being in a crash; and 8 percent because of gender differences in “crash incidence density,” the number of crashes per million person-miles.

Looking for more to back up my assertion of bullshit...but not finding any.

This is pretty much saying that men die more often due to driving under risky conditions. Which I agree. You're not going to survive many 100 mph crashes. And that women generally don't know what the fuck to do during an emergency.

 

[Shegokigo]

Interesting. From a John Hopkins report:

Overall, men were involved in 5.1 crashes per million miles driven compared to 5.7 crashes for women, despite the fact that on average they drove 74 percent more miles per year than did women.

The investigators determined that about half of the 3.1-fold difference between the sexes’ fatal crash involvement rates was due to the fact that males’ crashes were more severe. Another 40 percent was due to the fact that men, who on average drove many more miles than women, thus had a greater opportunity of being in a crash; and 8 percent because of gender differences in “crash incidence density,” the number of crashes per million person-miles.

Looking for more to back up my assertion of bullshit...but not finding any.

This is pretty much saying that men die more often due to driving under risky conditions. Which I agree. You're not going to survive many 100 mph crashes. And that women generally don't know what the fuck to do during an emergency.

Hit the Chaz man with facts and he still goes:

 

No, what it's saying is that men drive faster and more aggresively and women tend to drive more slowly and less aggresively. While women are in more accidents per million miles driven, men's accidents are more dangerous and are far more often fatal.

Here's another great site:

http://reportingstatistics.blogspot.com ... s-and.html

I know it's a blog, but their links are wonderful.

 

[Gurpel]

wow this is a can of worms.

first of all, usually when people say "x minority (racial) can't drive" they mean "immigrants can't drive"

which is true. take it from someone who sees fresh off the boat asian drivers all the time. if you learned another driving system before the western one, or are learning the western driving system at an older age (30-50) you wont be as good at driving in a western system

the same basic thing can be said of women drivers. until recently, most women drivers didn't start driving until after marriage - again, 30-50 range - and it led to a similar level of incompetence. once the stereotype is established it doesnt matter if it still holds true - people will cite run of the mill terrible women drivers ("run of the mill terrible drivers" exist across the board.) and hold that up as evidence that women can't drive.

For example - my grandfather didn't learn to drive until he was 40 (before then he worked in the yukon driving horses, not many roads up there). he is an abjectly terrible driver. On the other hand, my grandma(his wife) has been driving since she was 12, and is vastly better at driving. hell, she can drive a stick shift, smoke, and drink coffee at the same time with one arm. i can say this with certainty because

-i have seen her do it
-she was born with one arm.

anyway.... as to the original article, i have a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_effect

this effect represents the propensity of bad drivers to think that they are good drivers. this article isn't helping anything - a bad driver will read it and go "yeah, i hate those terrible drivers! and jeez, i guess this means that because i'm such a good driver, i can go faster than regular people."

EDIT: i forgot half a sentence :bush: