Chazwozel said:
Oh shit, I may just have found my sig quote.
Speed Doesn't Kill, Bad Drivers Do
- Thread starter Eriol
- Start date
- Status
Oh shit, I may just have found my sig quote.
In a crash none of those things matter. They may help prior to a crash, but during a crash? No. The nearly instantaneous forces a human undergoes during the actual impact are not significantly affect by how the car is handling during the 800mS of that impact.Chazwozel said:
All I'm doing is questioning your assertion that one car is safer than another at high speeds. I'm not saying that the opposite is true, I'm merely wondering where you're getting your information from. So far you haven't backed it up with anything at all.
Wait, what? Here we are having a nice superfluous discussion and you're giving up?!?Chazwozel said:
I hereby revoke your internet assholery license.
In short:
-Adam
stienman said:Wait, what? Here we are having a nice superfluous discussion and you're giving up?!?
I hereby revoke your internet assholery license.
In short:
-Adam
you know, i don't really usually condone image macros, but HOLY SHIT
I like the car in the electrical wires. The text is extra judgmental. You're not just doing it wrong...you're DOING WRONG! 
M
Mr_Chaz
I find Chaz's entire argument obtuse here. He's arguing that if you're breaking the speed limit then you're safer (note, not safe, just safer) if you're driving a sport car. You know what's even safer than that? Not breaking the speed limit.
Crash at 70 in a sports car or a normal car, crash at 90 in a sports car or a normal car. Which one's safest?
Certainly not either of the ones at 90.
Crash at 70 in a sports car or a normal car, crash at 90 in a sports car or a normal car. Which one's safest?
Certainly not either of the ones at 90.
C
Chazwozel
Which would you rather be in in an emergency evasive maneuver at 90 mph? A Corvette or a Geo Metro. I'm the one being obtuse? You got Steinman telling me to crunch an hours worth of data to prove my point. And then I have you telling me that the lower speed is safer when that's not at all relevant to my point. And then you have douchebags like Raikhan cheerleading on...Mr_Chaz said:
NO SHIT! I believe I said that's "why it pisses me off that consumer reports always ranks sports cars as unsafe due to the fact that accidents involving them are at high speed". They have high fatality rates because people get into high speed accidents with them more often then Volvos. Drive if people drove Volvos around at those same speeds 90+ mph, the fatality of those crashes would overtake those of sports cars. Sports cars ARE safer at higher speeds compared to regular cars because they're fucking made to go fast.
I don't know why I switched my arguement to Corvettes, when I stated Nascar grade racecar at first, but it still makes sense. A Corvette is designed to go fast and be safer at high speeds over a regular sedan.
Here's the original statement:
2. Only if your car isn't made for it. A corvette at 150mph handles far better than a Honda Civic at 90mph. I'm not saying you can't die, but the risk is significantly lower when you drive a car made for speeding over a Ford P.O.S.[/quote:20h9qqoq]
If you've got a Corvette with a 5 point harness and rollbar, you will far better than a Honda Civic, even if it has the same harness and a rollbar. The Vette has better crumple zones, stronger frame, a lower center of gravity, and more airbags.
I never disagreed with his statement, I simply stated that it's less so with cars made to go fast. Of course you run a bigger risk of death in an accident at high speed no matter what you drive, my entire argument still stands that sports cars are better in high speed situations than regular cars are because they're designed to handle those situations! Whether or not the driver is an idiot also factors into the equation.
As for the 'speed limit' is the safe speed argument. I couldn't disagree more. There's nothing wrong with doing 75-85 mph on a 65 mph stretch of highway. You have to drive smart and know how to drive, but it's no more unsafe than chugging along too slow at 55 on that same stretch. Yes, I throttle down when my kids are in the to 5-10 mph over the limit. Steinman is 100% correct that the faster you go the harder the deceleration is on your body. I don't drive my kids around in a Nascar either.
What IS dangerous is people hauling around 25 mph roads at 50-60. I'm fine with speeding, but there is a time and place where it's acceptable. Speed doesn't kill, bad drivers do. OP article is correct-a-mundo. Good drivers know when it's safe to go faster and when it's time to slow it down.
http://www.motorists.org/speedlimits/ho ... CONCLUSION
Gist of the article:
http://www.motorists.org/blog/national- ... el-prices/
Yeah dropping the speed limits from 65 to 55 in the 80's did nothing in terms of safety.
The reason you have a speed limit is so states can collect money off your ass for driving at reasonable high speeds on the highway.
And then you have the best argument for lifting speed limits:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfNATuw1DRs:20h9qqoq][/youtube:20h9qqoq]
Speed limits are like alcohol ban laws. They're for douchebags who can't control themselves and need rules to govern their everyday judgment. I don't need a speed limit to tell me that driving 90 mph through a 25 zone neighborhood is dangerous, but in some instances the post 25mph speed limit is ridiculous.
N
nufan
I have to say this has been an entertaining read so far.
First here is my not so hilarious translation of a few posts.
hi I'm chazwozel, men are better drivers and when I speed in my super jet car I am better at avoiding accidents in the first place so I don't have to worry about speed killing me. I can react better at 90 mph than 50 mph because I'm so focused on my car. I'm like johnny mnemonic jacked into that engine heart loving it better than jesse james.
Hi I'm adam I'm an average driver with an average car, I can drive okay but I'm pretty sure someone out there is going to hit me at somepoint and if they do I hope they aren't going 90mph because my airbags can absorb x-y over 4z6x and if you will look at this chart here...
Hi I'm Shego. :eyeroll: and we're off...
Hi I'm Ed, *spock voice* fascinating.
Hi I'm nufan and I'm stuck taking the goddamn bus.
Somehow I see both Steinman and Chaz's point here though from very different approaches to getting into a vehicle and what they do on the road. I *think* what steinman is trying to relate is that it doesn't matter how GOOD you are someone else will hit you, and Chaz is trying to counter that with good drivers can react at any speed and avoid anything.
It's not how fast you can react, it's how fast the other driver can react. Regardless of speed, car, driver's dna. In a perfect world there are no accidents but if someone hits you going 100mph you really think you are good enough to see it coming? I'm not talking being cut off in traffic, I'm talking about the asshole that runs a stop sign because he's laughing with his dumbass buddies and slams a family SUV killing someones sister.
:aaahhh:
First here is my not so hilarious translation of a few posts.
hi I'm chazwozel, men are better drivers and when I speed in my super jet car I am better at avoiding accidents in the first place so I don't have to worry about speed killing me. I can react better at 90 mph than 50 mph because I'm so focused on my car. I'm like johnny mnemonic jacked into that engine heart loving it better than jesse james.
Hi I'm adam I'm an average driver with an average car, I can drive okay but I'm pretty sure someone out there is going to hit me at somepoint and if they do I hope they aren't going 90mph because my airbags can absorb x-y over 4z6x and if you will look at this chart here...
Hi I'm Shego. :eyeroll: and we're off...
Hi I'm Ed, *spock voice* fascinating.
Hi I'm nufan and I'm stuck taking the goddamn bus.
Somehow I see both Steinman and Chaz's point here though from very different approaches to getting into a vehicle and what they do on the road. I *think* what steinman is trying to relate is that it doesn't matter how GOOD you are someone else will hit you, and Chaz is trying to counter that with good drivers can react at any speed and avoid anything.
It's not how fast you can react, it's how fast the other driver can react. Regardless of speed, car, driver's dna. In a perfect world there are no accidents but if someone hits you going 100mph you really think you are good enough to see it coming? I'm not talking being cut off in traffic, I'm talking about the asshole that runs a stop sign because he's laughing with his dumbass buddies and slams a family SUV killing someones sister.
:aaahhh:
Never has a thread made me go both WHAAA-?? and WHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! so much.
Nufan, that kicked ass.
Nufan, that kicked ass.
Edronspock said:
J
JCM
stienman said:In a crash none of those things matter. They may help prior to a crash, but during a crash? No. The nearly instantaneous forces a human undergoes during the actual impact are not significantly affect by how the car is handling during the 800mS of that impact.Chazwozel said:
All I'm doing is questioning your assertion that one car is safer than another at high speeds. I'm not saying that the opposite is true, I'm merely wondering where you're getting your information from. So far you haven't backed it up with anything at all.
Wait, what? Here we are having a nice superfluous discussion and you're giving up?!?Chazwozel said:
I hereby revoke your internet assholery license.
In short:
-Adam
Damn you for making me snort coffee all over the keyboard!
C
Chazwozel
Kinda, I believe that what makes a driver good is being aware of his surroundings better than your average Joe Blow that doesn't pay attention to the road (sorry but the majority of women fall under the 'don't pay attention category). You're right, I'm not of the camp that "someone else will hit you." If you know how to drive you learn how to prevent that crap, but obviously there are random acts of God, so to speak, where an accident is unavoidable. And, no, people don't have superhuman reaction times when they drive sports cars, but the car handles and brakes better possibly avoiding an accident. My sort of driving is a hybrid awarness/ defensive driving. Steinman is all defensive. That's fine.nufan said:
No, I don't rip through the highway at God knows what speed, but I like to go 85 mph on average on a long stretch of road that I'm familiar with. No, I don't drive a sports car. I drive a Subaru Impreza. Regular ol' car, that I wouldn't top out more than 90 on. When I had a Jeep Wrangler I wouldn't drive it past 70 since it felt unsafe any faster to me.
Moral of my story is, let people drive at the speeds they're comfortable with and if you don't like it, shut the fuck up and stay in the grandpa lane.
As to the are women worse drivers then men arguement:
Are Women Taking More Risks While Driving? A Look at Michigan Drivers
Download this publication for gender-related statistics.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/womens/chap26.pdf
Gender-related differences have also been observed in motor-vehicle
crash involvement rates.
See table 1, page 4
Driver of Striking Vehicle in Rear End Crash by Age and Gender
Michigan 1987 and 1994
See table 2, page 5
Differences in Rate per 1,000 Licensed Drivers in Rear-End Crash
Striking Vehicle by Age and
Gender in Michigan 1987 ? 1994
?If rear-end crashes can be assumed to be a consequence of following
too closely, these findings
support those of the headway study in that younger drivers more than
older drivers and males more than females engage in this particular
risky driving behavior.?
SPEED
?Traveling at excessive speeds can also be considered as a measure of
drivers willingness to expose
themselves to the risk of crash. In 1984, Wasielewski published an
analysis of speeding as a measure
of driver risk.?
(?)
?Wasielewski found a statistically significant decline in travel
speeds with age and noted that women
were less likely than men to be among the drivers at very high or very
low speeds. Analysis of
driving records showed that drivers with the fastest driving speeds
were more likely than others to
have crashes or violations on their driving records.?
See table 3, page 6
?It shows the frequency of occurrence and the incidence rate per 1,000
licensed drivers of these crashes by gender and age. The table shows
clearly that younger drivers were more likely than older drivers to be
speeding before a collision. Overall, men were about twice as likely
as women to be speeding before a collision?.
See table 5, page 7
Percentage Distribution of Self-Reported Speeds on Michigan Rural
Freeways (Speed Limit 65 MPH)
by Gender and Age in 1995
SAFETY BELT USE
Safety belts are designed specifically for reducing death and injuries
from traffic crashes. They are
only effective, however, if they are used. A lack of safety belt use
has been shown to be positively
correlated with high risk driving behavior.
See figure 2, page 8
?It shows the overall safety belt use rates by survey year and gender
across all age groups, as determined by direct-observation.?
?This figure shows clearly that safety belt use among women has been
consistently higher than men in every survey year.?
Download here.
United States Department of Transportation - Federal Highway
Administration http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/womens/chap26.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------
According to a study from Johns Hopkins Schools of Medicine and Public
Health female drivers are involved in slightly more crashes than men.
?Although men are three times more likely than women to be killed in
car crashes, researchers at the Johns Hopkins Schools of Medicine and
Public Health have found that, when the total numbers of crashes are
considered, female drivers are involved in slightly more crashes than
men. Overall, men were involved in 5.1 crashes per million miles
driven compared to 5.7 crashes for women, despite the fact that on
average they drove 74 percent more miles per year than did women.
The investigators, who published their results in the July issue of
Epidemiology, found that although teenage boys started off badly, with
about 20 percent more crashes per mile driven than teenage girls,
males and females between ages 20 and 35 were equally at risk of being
involved in a crash, and after age 35 female drivers were at greater
risk of a crash than their male counterparts.?
http://www.junkscience.com/news2/womendri.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Women behind the wheel: Statistical overview of road crash involvement (1998)
This report forms part of a series published by the Federal Office of
Road Safety (FORS) on women and road safety. It presents national road
crash statistics for women, and in particular, women drivers involved
in fatal crashes and crashes resulting in hospitalization.
For reasons of copyright, I cannot reproduce the material here,
however you can download the complete document here:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/199 ... _Fem_5.pdf
Female Drivers
Women behind the wheel: mid-age drivers
This monograph focuses on mid-age driver behavior.
Download here:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/199 ... _Fem_3.pdf
Women behind the wheel: young drivers
This monograph focuses on young driver behavior.
Download here:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/199 ... _Fem_6.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Women are generally considered better risks on the road than men.
?In 2002, for example, the National Safety Council (NSC) reported 50.1
percent of licensed drivers were males. They also accounted for 62
percent of the actual miles driven. In that same year, male drivers
were involved in 38,900 fatal crashes, while female drivers were
involved in 13,800 fatal crashes. Thus, women are generally considered
better risks on the road than men. It should be said that this gap is
beginning to narrow. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety
reportedly has said that between 1975 and 2002, females deaths in
motor vehicle crashes rose 14 percent while male deaths declined 10
percent.?
Cleveland.com: December 03, 2005
http://www.cleveland.com/autoinsight/pl ... xml&coll=2
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Gender and Auto Insurance
?Males under the age of 30 are charged higher rates than females
because they are involved in more accidents per mile than any other
demographic.?
Source: The Washington State Office of the Attorney General
http://www.atg.wa.gov/teenconsumer/page ... urance.htm
Gender:
?Statistics show that men are more likely to speed and gets into car
accidents are usually charged a higher premium.?
http://www.car-accidents.net/car-accidents-high.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------
?According to annual police reports, men's accident involvement per
100 licensed drivers is about twice women's in each age group.?
Automobile Insurance Pricing: Operating Cost versus Ownership Cost;
the Implications for Women
United States Department of Transportation - Federal Highway Administration
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/womens/chap39.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Who?s a better driver, a man or a woman?
?That question, discussed and argued for many years, was the subject
of a survey conducted by Prince Market Research (PMR) on behalf of
Bridgestone/Firestone, Inc. as part of Firestone?s Centennial
activities.
When asked, who drives more safely, men or women, a little more than
half (56%) of the total survey respondents said women drive more
safely. Further results show each gender believing they drive safer
than the opposite sex. Approximately three-quarters (76%) of the women
interviewed said they are safer drivers, while more than two-thirds
(69%) of the men surveyed believe they are the safer drivers.?
(?)
?53% of the women surveyed said they occasionally exceed the speed
limit, while 60% of the men said that they did.?
Driving Trends: Men And Women Behind The Wheel
Courtesy Of The Car Care Council
http://web.archive.org/web/200202210132 ... k-01.shtml
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Men are more likely to drive while intoxicated, not use a seatbelt,
and exceed the speed limit.
? For example, Fatal Accident Reporting System (FARS) national data
from 1982 to 1995 revealed that male drivers involved in fatal crashes
were almost twice as likely as females to be intoxicated (21.8 percent
compared to 11.2 percent respectively). Use of seatbelts differs in
percent Alabama by sex. According to the Alabama Department of Public
Health?s 1997 Alabama Behavioral Risk Factor Survey data, an estimated
56.3 percent of males compared to 74.7 percent of females reported
that they always used seatbelts. All these behaviors lead to
disproportionate accident rates between men and women.?
Alabama Health Statistics and Surveillanc
http://ph.state.al.us/chs/HealthStatist ... s/mva1.PDF
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Gender Issues
?Gender differences also play an important role in driving practices.
Young males are more likely to overestimate their driving ability
(Gregersen & Bjurulf, 1996), and this overconfidence has been shown to
be correlated with increased risk-taking behavior involvement in
accidents and violations (Elander, West, & French, 1993).?
?In the California Highway Patrol (2000) report, 317 males between the
ages of 16-19 died in car crashes in California as compared to 155
females; 64% of the males were at fault, and 62% of the females. The
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (2001) reported that in the
year 2000 in the United States, two out of every three teenagers
killed in car accidents were male.?
(?)
?Males were more likely to report higher levels of confidence in their
future ability to drive than did females? Significant gender
differences were also found in terms of considering a risky behavior
as dangerous. Out of the six reported dangerous behaviors they were
asked to rate, four of them showed significant gender differences
(speeding, drunk driving, distracted driving, slow driving), with
females rating the behavior as more dangerous in each case.?
Adolescence, Winter, 2004
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_n9487159
Data
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... 87159/pg_4
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From the School of Population Health, Mayne Medical School, University
of Queensland:
Age and gender differences in risk-taking behavior as an explanation
for high incidence of motor vehicle crashes as a driver in young
males.
Read the abstract here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... query_hl=5
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Crash data from two UK resources were examined for differences between
male and female passenger car drivers in collision circumstances and
injury outcomes.
?The proportion of female car license holders is growing, women are
more likely to be the driver in a collision and are more vulnerable to
injury particularly neck strain. Women drive smaller, lighter cars
compared to men and are more often the driver of the smaller vehicle
in a multivehicle collision.?
Vehicle Safety Research Centre, Loughborough University, UK.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract
The advice I used to give to my students...
"Drive like everyone around you is an idiot."
"Drive like everyone around you is an idiot."
C
Chazwozel
Women need to get the fuck off the cell phone and shut their flapping traps for 30 minutes in the car. Sound better?Shegokigo said:
M
Mr_Chaz
Yeah, I see where Chaz is coming from, but I most definitely side with Steinman on it. I always feel that no matter what you do, other people are idiots (this philosophy has done me well so far), so I'll play it safe on their behalf. I'm not saying I never speed, but I certainly never push it more than maybe 10% over the limit. So if it comes to going 70 or 90? 70 every time, because that's much closer to the flow of traffic. If the flow of traffic's pushing 90? Then fuck 'em, they shouldn't be, so I'll do what I'm comfortable with, and (importantly) I'll do my best to keep out of their way.nufan said:
C
Chazwozel
I just listed a buttload of graphs and research that points to women not knowing what to do in an auto emergency.Shegokigo said:
Anyway, sounds like you get into a lot of accidents.
I might have taken you more seriously had you done that in the first place.Chazwozel said:
I know you'll find this hilarious but I've been in one accident in 9 years of driving. (Which was caused by a male driver who side swiped me and ran me into the median) I'm also a "fast driver" usually hitting the 80s or so on the highway and 20-30mph faster than most speedzones ask.Chazwozel said:Anyway, sounds like you get into a lot of accidents.
My brother on the other hand, has been in 4 accidents in the past 2 years.
That is further hilarious. Come to Los Angeles and then make that statement.Chazwozel said:
Your insistence on staying in the "this is what I see so this is the world" club is befuddling to me, but you really seem to like it there, so enjoy.
ElJuski
Staff member
False. They get into more accidents because they are from the FUCKING MOON. They can't drive their space-cars and are forced to (poorly) adapt to our regular people ways.Jake said:
MOONPEOPLE :angry:
-- Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:03 pm --
also Zen, the fuck are you doing typing on internet when Chaz obviously needs a sandwich
YOU GET ME A POT PIE, BITCH.ElJuski said:
That would be good as I am hungry from all the bad driving I did whilst flapping my gums on my cellphone today.
I said GUMS, Shego!
(Oh, I'm going to hell...)
(Oh, I'm going to hell...)
J
JCM
Espy said:
WOMEEEEEN!!!!!
*Post done in satire to the chauvinist tone in this thread, heck I dont even drive well and have never bothered to get a license.
Meh. I'm not a fantastic driver. I tend to drive relatively safely, though. Only place I speed a lot is on a 4-band, dead-straight (one, shallow, curve on over 2 miles of road) piece of road that's zoned 50 kph around here, for no discernible reason whatsoever. I tend to do 120 there. 
Otherwise, when the conditions are sub-optimal, I drive somewhere slightly below the limit to far below the limit (heavy rainfall, dark, snowfall, heavy fog,...can all bring down my speed very fast
). When the conditions are good, though, I do tend to drive over the speed limit.
Also, I've been in 4 accidents, and the only two things they've had in common was that the other driver was female, and that I was driving. Clearly, I'm awesome, so it's the women's fault :-P
Slightly more seriously, though certainly also just anecdotical and not meant as evidence of whatever, since I don't agree with the point this could help defend, in my experience men tend to use handsfree calling ay more often. I hardly ever - if ever- see a man talking on the phone behind the wheel. I've literally never known a woman to use a hands free set while I was in the car (and yes, I do drive with plenty of female drivers and they're not all my mom :-p).
Eh.
Otherwise, when the conditions are sub-optimal, I drive somewhere slightly below the limit to far below the limit (heavy rainfall, dark, snowfall, heavy fog,...can all bring down my speed very fast
). When the conditions are good, though, I do tend to drive over the speed limit.Also, I've been in 4 accidents, and the only two things they've had in common was that the other driver was female, and that I was driving. Clearly, I'm awesome, so it's the women's fault :-P
Slightly more seriously, though certainly also just anecdotical and not meant as evidence of whatever, since I don't agree with the point this could help defend, in my experience men tend to use handsfree calling ay more often. I hardly ever - if ever- see a man talking on the phone behind the wheel. I've literally never known a woman to use a hands free set while I was in the car (and yes, I do drive with plenty of female drivers and they're not all my mom :-p).
Eh.
- Status