With Disney at the helm, it's gotten better. I really liked Rogue One and I want to see where they'll go with this.
[Movies] Star Wars Ep. VIII has a name...
- Thread starter blotsfan
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I know, eh? After JJ Abrams put so much Star Wars into his Star Trek, he just had to put all of the Star Wars into his Star Wars.
Just to note, if Star Wars isn't a big deal for someone, that's cool.
Guy on a forum I used to visit hated Pixar movies except the first Toy Story. Why? He said they were all the same. He described A Bug's Life as Toy Story with bugs, Monsters Inc as Toy Story with monsters, The Incredibles as Toy Story with superheroes, and so on. That's how the Marvel and Star Wars "same" crowd come across.
Didn't see any of his Star Trek movies, little interest in Star Trek.
Guy on a forum I used to visit hated Pixar movies except the first Toy Story. Why? He said they were all the same. He described A Bug's Life as Toy Story with bugs, Monsters Inc as Toy Story with monsters, The Incredibles as Toy Story with superheroes, and so on. That's how the Marvel and Star Wars "same" crowd come across.
I camped out for a week for Episode 1. I don't really hate it with the complete vehemence other people do, maybe because I have good memories surrounding it's release. I hate Episode 2 and 3 far more, mostly because of the terrible dialogue from Anakin. Ewan McGregor was the only thing that saved the movies for me in any way.
I think samey is a very valid criticism for something that is a common feeling but sometimes people can't quite put their finger on it. I love the new star wars movies, and the marvel movies, but there is a certain glossiness to them that makes them feel just a little too perfect. They are carefully engineered to make us like them, which isn't a bad thing, but when you become over saturated with it you start to taste the artificial sweetener a little more than you used to.
I think this hit me most when I saw Logan. Logan is a fantastic film with a surprising amount of heart underneath all the violence, and it carried with it a sort of authenticity that isn't as apparent in the Disney movies. I know they are vastly different types of film and that makes them difficult to compare, and I don't want marvel movies to go for the kind of grit Logan had, but I can totally see someone getting burnt out on all that shine.
I don't think it's very valid criticism. I think it's a shallow approach to what is a genuine criticism that you've elaborated on. Maybe that could be taken as semantics, but I think boiling down what you've said to "they're the same" is not just an oversimplification; it's inaccurate.
Now what you're pointing out is the real meat of the issue. Most certainly to an extant these movies have gone through rigorous formula study, which makes it strange when one of them comes out weak. It's not to say these movies don't have heart or personality, but it's not the kind you get from a passion project.
Why? Because these Disney movies rely on the heart/personality of the characters. A passion project or movie where the director can get their hands into it, that has the storyteller's heart and personality. I haven't seen Logan, but I'm sure it's that way. I'm also certain Ant-Man would've been that way had it remained Edgar Wright's project.
That's where the DCEU issues come in. If you see Doctor Strange, you're seeing a Marvel/Disney movie. If you see Batman vs Superman, you're seeing a Zack Snyder movie. That's without getting into which movie is good and which movie isn't; on a matter of personalization, Disney largely isn't interested. Some directors find ways to work within that--I'd say Guardians is undoubtedly a James Gunn movie.
But it's not the same as calling all of it the same. That's just a buzzword passing over a genuine issue. If people are just saying "same" because they can't put their finger on the stuff you brought up, maybe they should wait and give it some real thought first isn't of grasping for what Youtubers toss out.
Why? I understand you don't like the criticism, but the question should be why not? Typically the way the conversation goes is someone says they don't like x, and since you do like x, you ask why. And they don't have a detailed answer because maybe they aren't that invested, or maybe they simply don't have the time, but you asked so they give their best approximation, they're kinda samey. Now you are upset with the answer that you asked them to give.
I have zero problems with people disliking the movies. What annoys me are people who like them (or say so) but apply the "same" argument as their critique to them. That's why I don't harp on the DCEU fans for having issues with Marvel movies even though the DCEU movies suck so far.
It's not like I like each Marvel movie. Thor 2, Iron Man 2, no thanks. But they're not the same movie.
This would be part of what was revealed with the Pearls before breakfast social experiment. When interviewing the passers-by, the ones who were most captivated were the ones who had had the most musical training, and therefore the ones most able to recognize the nuance.
--Patrick
And kids.
Around the X-Mas holidays, I re-watched at 7 movies along with Rogue One. Episode 1 was baaaaad but Episode 2 was a special kind of painful. Truly, a horrible movie!
3 was a better overall, Ewan did the best he can with what he was given and the better part started once Anakin turned.... but..... Haydenson was such. a. shit. actor.
It also didn't help he had the worst lines ever written. I mean comon, there are so many ways they could have worked this and the awful heavy CGI makes this unwatchable (soundtrack is amazing though).
Everyone watch this video, it's barely 6 seconds of your time, so cringeworthy.
The fucking worst.
Yeah, let's be fair. Even Sam Jackson didn't come out of that smoothly.
I'm wondering if there's a case for Hayden in his acting. Like when I went and watched the opening sequence of a new hope it kinda dawned on me that Darth Vader, without the effects and James Earl Jones behind him, would sound flat and uninteresting. Like if a normal dude read Darth Vader's lines, in the style of JEJ but without the depth of his voice and no alterations it might sound like Hayden did in episodes 2 and 3. I need to compare them more to be sure though.
I half-expected a joke video where he'd sound like Judge Doom from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
Shattered Glass is the one people recommend me. The poor guy got a big role in a shitty movie and that's unfortunately what he'll always be known for. I doubt he'll get another chance to be in something big until another 15 years from now when it becomes cool to like his awful performance in the prequels.
figmentPez
Staff member
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I posted this on FB, but it sure feels like my long standing headcanon/fan theory is coming "true". Luke is the one who brings balance to the Force because he embraces his emotions. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan start things with their flaunting of the Order rules. Obi-Wan even tells Luke his emotions do him credit, and Luke's love for his father defeats the Emperor, not cold asceticism. Even ESB Yoda seems to be jocular and no longer withdrawn, and he's been in communication with Qui-Gon while in exile on Dagobah. Seems like the teaser might be hinting at something like this.
I'm not an EU expert, but I'm pretty sure the new jedi order trained in both the dark and the light, even if it was understood that too much use of the dark was a bad thing.
figmentPez
Staff member
Well, if the games are accurate, they didn't shun using what where considered dark side powers by classic Jedi... because Luke correctly assumed that it wasn't using your emotions that made you fall to the dark side, but getting dominated by them, so it's better to learn to deal with them then suppress them... you know, like when Vader took control of his feelings and ended up a good force ghost.
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Reminds me of the jedi academy in SWTOR. They get, like, clerical jobs after being trained in the force. They don't actually seem to disable the force usage, though. It seems a little like giving someone a nuke, training them on how to use it, then dismissing them for disciplinary reasons without actually taking the nuke back. Magically lobotomizing the failed mages in Dragon Age seems cruel, but at least they won't blow up a bus full of nuns.
It's more like the Order offers people who...
- would never survive a life of fighting...
- can't follow the rules...
- can't control their emotions...
- don't want to become knights...
... the option to have a more normalish life than they would by simply going back to their old lives. They don't FORCE you into this, you can just leave the Jedi Order if you want (like Dooku did) but then you have to deal with the possibility of ether the Jedi deciding you're misusing what they taught you and coming for you or the Sith coming for you to bring you into the fold. That said, there are more than a few Force Sensatives doing thug work for the Cartels or with the Mandolorians... they just don't run around with god damn robes and lightsabers like idiots.
fade
Staff member
I'd say more like being born with a chunk of iron ore you occasionally hit someone with, and having it forged into a sword.
I get that no one is forcing them to stay. dooku is well trained. But the guys I'm specifically talking about failed their training but got enough to be more dangerous. That's why I compared it to dragon age.
