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State of the Union 2012

Jan 24, 2012#1

Shegokigo

Thoughts?

Jan 24, 2012#2

strawman

I assumed it was going to be a stump speech, and can read the transcript later faster anyway. I'm guessing he talked about clean energy, taxing the rich at a higher rate, and that we need more "political unity" and a pledge to work together with those willing to work to make things... uh, work.

Am I far wrong?

Jan 24, 2012#3

strawman

Oh, I forgot about the obligatory "I'm awesome" portion. Here's my (~~probably~~ definitely very biased) summary of the transcript:

- I ended the Iraq war and brought our troops home
- I got Bin Laden and many of his lietenants
- We need to work together for
- jobs
- high tech
- energy security
- prosperity
- stable economy (interestingly he used the phrase "hard work pays off, and responsibility is rewarded.")
- We are faced with challenges similar to what we saw after WWII, and the solution is similar
- My grandparents served in the war as soldier and factory worker (I'm american, dangit!)
- We are part of something larger, and we need to share
- If you work hard, you should be able to support your family, own your home, send your kids to college, and retire comfortably
- We should not settle for rich-get-richer, poor-get-poorer - everyone should "play by the same rules"
- The reason we are in this spot is due in part to the global market, and partly because banks and regulators failed us
- We stopped the job loss hemorrhaging
- We've fixed financial regulations so it doesn't happen again
- I'll work with those who will work with me, and fight those who oppose me
- We need to renew our manufacturing sector
- I fixed the auto industry (HAHAHAHA! It's sad that people will believe him.)
- We can fix other industries in the same way (

)
- We're going to tax businesses that send jobs overseas (I like how he pretends it's reversing a tax break)
- We're going to tax non-US based businesses
- We're going to give a tax break to businesses who make their products here (how?)
- We're going to increase our exports (this whole package is going to make the WTO non-happy, free trade for everyone, some more than others)
- We're looking at you, China
- I expect businesses to pay for worker training - work with your colleges and design programs that will give you the workers you need
- We need to give schools the resources to pay for good teachers, and reward the best teachers
- I want states to require graduation, or schooling until 18
- We can't keep subsidizing tuition
- Schools that continue to raise tuition should expect less federal aid
- We need to give citizenship to those who come to the US for education
- I reaffirm my commitment to prevent illegal immigration
- But we need to come up with a plan that allows productive illegal immigrants to stay (yay doublespeak!)
- Let me take a moment to name drop Steve Jobs
- I call on congress to come up with a plan to encourage entrepreneurship
- We need to increase energy innovation
- I'm opening 75% of our potential offshore oil and gas resources
- Natural gas is an energy winner for the US - Drill, baby, drill! Oh, it'll also increase jobs.
- Clean energy is another big winner for the US. It's not working yet, but it will if we keep working at it! I promise!
- I don't think congress can come up with a good climate bill - but I think we can all agree on clean energy, so get going already!
- Let's encourage energy usage reduction via tax incentives
- Let's do more public works to rebuild crumbling infrastructure and create jobs
- We don't have money for it, but let's pretend that ending the iraq war freed up money, and you can use that pretend money to do this
- I want congress to enact a plan that will allow people to refinance their mortgages, and we're going to tax banks in order to pay for this plan
- Without endangering our public safety, we need to remove or modify regulations that place arduous burdens on small businesses where they don't make sense
- We need to regulate banks more heavily. Bad banks! Bad! Bad! We're not going to bail you out again. (unless we need to...)

Wow this is a long talk. I'll try to cut back to one line per every two or three paragraphs...

- We need to increase taxes on the wealthiest to cover the deficit
- We need to rein in medicare, medicaid, and social security, without hurting our seniors
- If we allow the rich to be taxed at a lower rate, it hurts everyone. Seniors are starving
- We need to reform DC, lobbyists, etc, etc, etc
- Duplicrats and replicons need to work together
- Smarter, more efficient, more effective gov't
- I ended the Iraq war, and we remain commited to peace in the middle east. Iran is dumb
- We are still a major power in the world
- I renew our commitments to our vets

Jan 24, 2012#4

Krisken

Ugh, banks. It's easy, really. Put back the restriction on banks on either being investment banks OR savings institutions. Not both.

I don't think you'll find anyone outside of Washington who disagrees about campaign finance and lobbyist reforms. I don't care how many times people say it, corporations are NOT people.

Jan 25, 2012#5

AshburnerX

I'm gonna give him a pass on the US Auto Industry thing, if only because it's too fucking complex to argue about. GM's back in #1 and that's really all he needs to point to at this point.

Jan 25, 2012#6

Tress

I particularly enjoyed the call for a requirement on up and down votes within 90 days for appointments. That would sidestep the partisan horse shit pretty well.

Jan 25, 2012#7

Covar

AshburnerX said:
I'm gonna give him a pass on the US Auto Industry thing, if only because it's too fucking complex to argue about. GM's back in #1 and that's really all he needs to point to at this point.

I still can't help but laugh every time GM is brought up because I keep thinking about their "electric" Chevy Volt.

Jan 25, 2012#8

BananaHands

I think it's going to put fire under the Republican Party's ass.

They've been running against each other while portraying Obama as this weird, evil caricature. He's not perfect, but if last night is any indication they're going to be knocked on their asses when running against the actual Obama.
Added at: 14:34
And yeah, 3/4s of that speech could have been summed up with him pointing off camera and stating "Scoreboard."

Jan 25, 2012#9

Dave

I never watch these things any longer. It's nothing more than empty platitudes while their side stands while the other sits on their hands.

Jan 25, 2012#10

Charlie Don't Surf

Man, that speech could have been given by President McCain. Congratulations on moving the goalposts

Jan 25, 2012#11

Shegokigo

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Man, that speech could have been given by President McCain. Congratulations on moving the goalposts

Except the whole, let's lower Military funding and help the Middle Class and cut tax breaks for the rich and the other half of the entire speech.

Otherwise, yeah totally McCain-ish.

Jan 25, 2012#12

GasBandit

Didn't watch it. Was playing supreme commander: forged alliance with the little woman.

Jan 25, 2012#13

Dave

The biggest problem is, he can't do ANY of this stuff without Congress. And we all know how well Congress likes to work with the President. If Obama cured cancer and saved a baby from choking to death, the Republicans would find a way to say it was a bad thing. Probably because it put oncologists out of work (All those jobs LOST! Thanks, you Muslim!) and that the baby should have been allowed to die (Survival of the fittest!).

Michelle Obama came out against childhood obesity and the Republicans went nuts. Damn her for wanting to get our kids healthier!!

Jan 25, 2012#14

strawman

The democrats owned congress and the white house for two full sessions of congress and Obama had just as much trouble with congress as he has now.

Feel free to blame the opposing party, but I'm just going to laugh about it.

Jan 25, 2012#15

MindDetective

Obama is clearly a moderate. Why are liberal democrats still shocked when he doesn't act like a raving partisan liberal?

Jan 25, 2012#16

BananaHands

stienman said:
The democrats owned congress and the white house for two full sessions of congress and Obama had just as much trouble with congress as he has now.

Feel free to blame the opposing party, but I'm just going to laugh about it.

I'm sure the constant use of a filibuster that the Republican party pulled didn't help.
Added at: 18:16

MindDetective said:
Obama is clearly a moderate. Why are liberal democrats still shocked when he doesn't act like a raving partisan liberal?

"Moderates!? In OUR government!? The media won't allow it!"

Jan 25, 2012#17

Tress

MindDetective said:
Obama is clearly a moderate. Why are liberal democrats still shocked when he doesn't act like a raving partisan liberal?

Because for no logical reason they imagined he would be a raving partisan liberal when they voted for him, and now they blame him for their wholly undeserved disappointment.

Jan 25, 2012#18

Covar

Tress said:
Because for no logical reason they imagined he would be a raving partisan liberal when they voted for him, and now they blame him for their wholly undeserved disappointment.

It's Bush's fault really.

Jan 25, 2012#19

Charlie Don't Surf

I never thought Obama was "the answer" nor did I vote for him.

Jan 25, 2012#20

Shegokigo

You didn't vote at all so it doesn't matter what you think about the situation. Does it?

Jan 25, 2012#21

Dave

stienman said:
The democrats owned congress and the white house for two full sessions of congress and Obama had just as much trouble with congress as he has now.

Feel free to blame the opposing party, but I'm just going to laugh about it.

As BananaHands said....

Jan 25, 2012#22

Tress

Shegokigo said:
You didn't vote at all so it doesn't matter what you think about the situation. Does it?

Holy shit, he didn't even vote? My god Charlie, just shut the fuck up about politics from here on out.
Added at: 10:34

Dave said:
As BananaHands said....

I would completely support the removal of the filibuster entirely. I don't care who is in power, it's a stupid tactic.

Jan 25, 2012#23

Dave

At one time the filibuster was a force for good and put to good use. But that was before our politicians went nuclear with the partisanship. I mean, it's rather telling when nearly every bill presented is split right down party lines and even a few defectors make such a large difference. Their allegiance is no longer to we the people but to their party - and they are run by the mega-corporations and super rich.

Jan 25, 2012#24

Tress

There was a great story that took place in the 70's. A newly-elected Democrat arrived in the House and started talking to minority leader. After a while he asked "So where are the Republicans? I want to meet the enemy." The minority leader responded by saying "Republicans aren't the enemy; they're the opposition. The Senate is the enemy."

It goes to show how much that perception has changed in this country over the last few decades.

Jan 25, 2012#25

Dave

As to Charlie's non-voting status, I disagree that you can't have an opinion if you didn't vote. I have opinions on other country's leaders and I sure as hell didn't vote there.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if it agrees with Gas and is clearly incorrect.

Jan 25, 2012#26

Tress

Dave said:
As to Charlie's non-voting status, I disagree that you can't have an opinion if you didn't vote. I have opinions on other country's leaders and I sure as hell didn't vote there.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if it agrees with Gas and is clearly incorrect.

If you're passing on an opportunity to participate, you don't get to whine later. Think about how that plays in a workplace. If you're in a meeting and the group is making a decision, you should give your input. This is even more important if you disagree with what the group is doing. You definitely can't be quiet, then trash the group's decision later. I view voting the same way.

Jan 25, 2012#27

Shegokigo

Tress pretty much nailed it.

Even if your candidate didn't win, at least you can say "Well if we had won, then etc etc etc". Otherwise you pretty much come off as a Hipster. Thinks the world is unfair, wants change, does nothing to make it happen.

Jan 25, 2012#28

BananaHands

Dave said:
As to Charlie's non-voting status, I disagree that you can't have an opinion if you didn't vote. I have opinions on other country's leaders and I sure as hell didn't vote there.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if it agrees with Gas and is clearly incorrect.

I don't care if you vote for "Mickey Mouse", but you should at least pay enough attention to your government to get involved in an election. You lose all credibility if you're going to whine and complain and not do anything about it.
Added at: 18:54

Shegokigo said:
Tress pretty much nailed it.

Even if your candidate didn't win, at least you can say "Well if we had won, then etc etc etc". Otherwise you pretty much come off as a Hipster. Thinks the world is unfair, wants change, does nothing to make it happen.

Exactly. I hate it on both ends. Fuckin' Hipster Liberals complaining about how everything should change, having no solid idea or belief on the subject and looking down on everyone else.
Added at: 18:55

Jan 25, 2012#29

Charlie Don't Surf

Huh. I voted in 2008 and 2010, I dunno where you got the idea I didn't.

Jan 25, 2012#30

Shegokigo

So you either voted McCain or threw away your vote. Which was it?

Jan 25, 2012#31

MindDetective

Shegokigo said:
threw away your vote.

ugh

Jan 25, 2012#32

BananaHands

Jan 25, 2012#33

GasBandit

Tress said:
Holy shit, he didn't even vote? My god Charlie, just shut the fuck up about politics from here on out.

Heh, so is "STFU Charlie" officially a forum meme yet?

I would completely support the removal of the filibuster entirely. I don't care who is in power, it's a stupid tactic.

I don't think that's a good idea. There might be a time in the near future when a democrat filibuster might be all that stands between the nation and a national gay marriage ban.

I would, however, support the removal of the filibuster from the judicial nominee confimation process.

BananaHands said:
I'm sure the constant use of a filibuster that the Republican party pulled didn't help.

Democrats had near 60% in both houses. With jellyspined RINOs still in like Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and more, the Democrats could have broken just about any filibuster they wanted to, if they moved in lockstep. But they didn't. Once they gained control in 06, the Democrat party started turning on itself. There were just as many Democrats against just about any given issue as there were for it, even on signature Obama issues. Really, between 06 and 10, the republicans were pretty much a non-factor.
Added at: 13:14

Shegokigo said:
So you either voted McCain or threw away your vote. Which was it?

I'll have you know voting Libertarian is a perfectly cromulent option.

Jan 25, 2012#34

Charlie Don't Surf

I voted third party, take your mouth off the two party system's fat cock

Jan 25, 2012#35

BananaHands

Jan 25, 2012#36

Shegokigo

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I voted third party, take your mouth off the two party system's fat cock

So like I said: threw your vote away.

Side note, I'm pretty sure you've sucked more dick than I have, but that's a compliment cause it takes alot of balls to suck a dick according to Louie.

Jan 25, 2012#37

Charlie Don't Surf

it was a dumb metaphor, but yeah I threw my vote away instead of compromising myself

Jan 25, 2012#38

Krisken

GasBandit said:
Democrats had near 60% in both houses. With jellyspined RINOs still in like Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and more, the Democrats could have broken just about any filibuster they wanted to, if they moved in lockstep. But they didn't. Once they gained control in 06, the Democrat party started turning on itself. There were just as many Democrats against just about any given issue as there were for it, even on signature Obama issues. Really, between 06 and 10, the republicans were pretty much a non-factor.
Added at: 13:14

I'll have you know voting Libertarian is a perfectly cromulent option.

So not being a right wing fanatic makes you jelly spined? Christ, you're as bad as the liberals who think Obama ran as a super lefty and were disappointed?

Jan 25, 2012#39

Shegokigo

@Charlie - Honestly, you get some respect back from me for at least trying to vote and I take back my comment about you not being able to have an opinion.

You're still wrong though.

Jan 25, 2012#40

Charlie Don't Surf

I missed voting in 2004 by one week, but in retrospect, I'm glad I did, since I would have voted for Bush D:
Added at: 13:30
also it doesn't really matter, but I've never had a homosexual experience

Jan 25, 2012#41

Shegokigo

It's cool, I've never really had a hetero one. I'm sure neither of us will feel like we missed much.

Oh yeah, POLITICS etc etc

Jan 25, 2012#42

Charlie Don't Surf

That was a poor choice of words though, and I'm sorry

Jan 25, 2012#43

GasBandit

Krisken said:
So not being a right wing fanatic makes you jelly spined? Christ, you're as bad as the liberals who think Obama ran as a super lefty and were disappointed?

It's pretty much taken for granted that on any high-controversy issue, the RINOs can be counted on to vote with the democrats. They did it over stimulus, they did it over the "public option," hell, the only reason they don't kick Snowe out of the republican party is because the R next to her name goes toward deciding which party gets to be committee chairs.

Jan 25, 2012#44

Krisken

GasBandit said:
It's pretty much taken for granted that on any high-controversy issue, the RINOs can be counted on to vote with the democrats. They did it over stimulus, they did it over the "public option," hell, the only reason they don't kick Snowe out of the republican party is because the R next to her name goes toward deciding which party gets to be committee chairs.

And the Democrats had Lieberman and Ben Nelson. Whoop de doo. Still a load of nonsense.

Jan 25, 2012#45

GasBandit

Krisken said:
And the Democrats had Lieberman and Ben Nelson. Whoop de doo. Still a load of nonsense.

Lieberman went (I) cause the democrats tried to replace him, but he still caucuses with them. Remind me what's wrong with Ben Nelson?

Jan 25, 2012#46

Tress

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Huh. I voted in 2008 and 2010, I dunno where you got the idea I didn't.

Whoops. I retract my previous statement. I apologize, and you should feel free to complain as much as you want.

Jan 25, 2012#47

Krisken

GasBandit said:
Lieberman went (I) cause the democrats tried to replace him, but he still caucuses with them. Remind me what's wrong with Ben Nelson?

"Cornhusker Kickback".

Jan 25, 2012#48

GasBandit

Krisken said:
"Cornhusker Kickback".

Hey, he still voted for cloture, didn't he?

Jan 25, 2012#49

Krisken

GasBandit said:
Hey, he still voted for cloture, didn't he?

Doesn't really matter. The whole thing literally left the White House without any power for 2 years. Not exactly a team player there.

Jan 25, 2012#50

GasBandit

Krisken said:
Doesn't really matter. The whole thing literally left the White House without any power for 2 years. Not exactly a team player there.

My point was, between the 58 democrats and the 2 independents that caucused with them, they had 60 votes. That's the magic number to stop a filibuster. Then you figure in RINOs as a comfort buffer. The reason the democrats "didn't get anything done" (thank god they didn't get more done than they did) was not because of anything the republicans did.. it was all because of democrats who wouldn't stick together. I think that's kind of where you were going too, wasn't it?

Jan 25, 2012#51

Krisken

Comfort buffer?

You have this magical idea that the Democrats always vote Democrat and the Republicans have a huge bunch who always break away from their party. That's a crock and just doesn't happen.

Jan 26, 2012#52

GasBandit

Krisken said:
You have this magical idea that the Democrats always vote Democrat and the Republicans have a huge bunch who always break away from their party. That's a crock and just doesn't happen.

Funny, I've heard of a good number of judicial appointments last decade who say otherwise.

Jan 26, 2012#53

Krisken

GasBandit said:
Funny, I've heard of a good number of judicial appointments last decade who say otherwise.

Here I thought we were talking about bills. Are we changing the discussion now?

Jan 26, 2012#54

GasBandit

Krisken said:
Here I thought we were talking about bills. Are we changing the discussion now?

I thought we were talking about filibusters.

Jan 26, 2012#55

Krisken

Oof, I see my disconnect. Having multiple discussions with you threw me for a loop there.

Yes, in filibusters it has taken party line votes to get cloture and take to a vote. Which is funny since half the time if they make it past the filibuster they get voted in with a rather large majority.

Most of the time nominees (not necessarily judicial) are denied simply to prevent things from working. Which is sad.

Jan 26, 2012#56

drawn_inward

I didn't vote for Pres in '08. I voted for everything else on the ballot though. We didn't have a third party option or I would have voted for someone else. I am sending a message to both stupid parties that I am not picking the lesser of two evils. I'll do it again this year if it's Obama vs Newt or Romney. I'm not lazy and not voting. I am choosing not to choose.

Jan 26, 2012#57

Covar

drawn_inward said:
I didn't vote for Pres in '08. I voted for everything else on the ballot though. We didn't have a third party option or I would have voted for someone else. I am sending a message to both stupid parties that I am not picking the lesser of two evils. I'll do it again this year if it's Obama vs Newt or Romney. I'm not lazy and not voting. I am choosing not to choose.

No you're clearly being lazy and/or throwing your vote away. Despite the fact that you made a conscious decision and choice not to vote for either candidate you're apathy means that you can have no say or room to complain about anything that goes on in politics. Even if the Senate proposed a bill that forced anyone going by the online alias "drawn_inward" or similar variations to grab their ankles and take a pinapple up their ass.

Jan 26, 2012#58

GasBandit

drawn_inward said:
I didn't vote for Pres in '08. I voted for everything else on the ballot though. We didn't have a third party option or I would have voted for someone else. I am sending a message to both stupid parties that I am not picking the lesser of two evils. I'll do it again this year if it's Obama vs Newt or Romney. I'm not lazy and not voting. I am choosing not to choose.

Bob Barr wasn't on your state's ballot?

Jan 26, 2012#59

Charlie Don't Surf

For the record - casting an empty ballot is voting.

Jan 26, 2012#60

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
For the record - casting an empty ballot is voting.

I'll buy that when it's actually possible to leave an office unoccupied if the greatest plurality of voters vote "none" for that entry. But at least you can say you got off your ass and went to the polling station.

Jan 27, 2012#61

jwhouk

That actually makes me wonder now - has any political race ever had "none of the above" win the most votes? (Right out of Brewster's Millions, I guess...)

Jan 28, 2012#62

Rovewin

jwhouk said:
That actually makes me wonder now - has any political race ever had "none of the above" win the most votes? (Right out of Brewster's Millions, I guess...)

I remember that a city position in my town had none of the above win but because it was not above 60% or some arbitrary percentage the man who had the most votes took the office. I remember alot of people were upset over it since most believed neither of the two candidates were fit for the office.

Jan 28, 2012#63

Hailey Knight

Rovewin said:
I remember that a city position in my town had none of the above win but because it was not above 60% or some arbitrary percentage the man who had the most votes took the office. I remember alot of people were upset over it since most believed neither of the two candidates were fit for the office.

Sounds like "We're going to invent a new rule because we have no idea what to do in this situation."

Jan 28, 2012#64

jwhouk

Heck, there's been times where a tiebreaker for some local elections were things like "flip a coin" or "play one hand of poker".

Jan 30, 2012#65

GasBandit

jwhouk said:
Heck, there's been times where a tiebreaker for some local elections were things like "flip a coin" or "play one hand of poker".

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