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So a month or two ago I was at a store with a pharmacy and they were doing flu shots, free with most insurance plans. I figured... why not and did it. They asked me if I wanted a COVID vaccine and I said 'no thanks, I'll just get the regular flu shot and that'll be it.'

Are you still getting the COVID vaccines and boosters? I think I am over it at this point.

Nebulous said:

So a month or two ago I was at a store with a pharmacy and they were doing flu shots, free with most insurance plans. I figured... why not and did it. They asked me if I wanted a COVID vaccine and I said 'no thanks, I'll just get the regular flu shot and that'll be it.'

Are you still getting the COVID vaccines and boosters? I think I am over it at this point.

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Why would you not?

Ravenpoe said:

Why would you not?

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Because they are unnecessary.

That's like saying doctor checkups are unnecessary. Sure, you could go through life without them, but they help prevent things from getting worse when they are caught early.

Nebulous said:

Because they are unnecessary.

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Did I miss the news somewhere that COVID was erradicated?

I got one in Fall, but I assume thats going to be the last time.

Nebulous said:

Because they are unnecessary.

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Ok, followup question, why get a flu shot then?

Our household still gets it every year, usually at the same time we get our flu shots. And it's for the same reasons: Mr. Z works in a big office. Li'l Z is at a large school, and plays a lot of contact/semi-contact sports year 'round.. We're surrounded by people breathing on us, who may-or-may-not realize they're carrying something. And if we do catch something, why not take 2 sec once a year to get a shot that minimizes the effects? It costs nothing, and we don't have to miss stuff we want to do because of extended illness.

Nebulous said:

Because they are unnecessary.

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COVID and Influenza are both spread by similar vectors (cough, contact with cough/sneeze byproducts), but they are not the same virus. Immunity to one does not confer immunity to the other. Also, the contagion/fatality rate for SARS-CoV-2 (the official name for the COVID-19 virus) is higher than that of seasonal influenza, meaning that it spreads more quickly and kills more people than influenza. Much like seasonal flu, it also continues to mutate, meaning updated vaccines are required each year in order to properly match whichever strains might be dominant that season.

In other words, any method/process that could successfully eliminate COVID could therefore also be applied to eliminate Influenza, so if you see that one of them is currently a widespread problem, the other one still will be, too. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about and should be disregarded for your own safety and the safety of those around you.

--Patrick

I still don't trust it. They've been working on the flu shot for decades. The covid vaccine was something they whipped up in a hurry and caused tons of health problems (even death) to millions of people. Also I've had COVID a couple times, it was very mild. Got over it in a couple days.

I was wondering what your angle was.

I even got covid after being "fully vaccinated" ... They say the COVID vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting it but it just reduces your symptoms, which is odd because I had the same mild symptoms as a friend of mine who was completely unvaccinated. It didn't reduce or prevent anything for me.

So you just uncritically slurped up every bit of anti-vax propaganda, huh?

Vrii said:

So you just uncritically slurped up every bit of anti-vax propaganda, huh?

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Nope, I am just mostly sharing my own personal experiences with it.

Nebulous said:

I still don't trust it. They've been working on the flu shot for decades. The covid vaccine was something they whipped up in a hurry and caused tons of health problems (even death) to millions of people. Also I've had COVID a couple times, it was very mild. Got over it in a couple days.

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My dude, my husband works for a company who's job is to detect and treat diseases. While they aren't one of the companies that helped make the vaccine, a bunch of their scientists were privy to the process.

1)No, they didn't just throw the vaccine together. COVID was one of many viruses the entire world have been keeping track of. They had a lot of research on similar viruses, and money and time was used to put together the pieces everyone had.

2)The flu shot has been worked on for decades because the flu viruses constantly evolve. Also, no one was putting in the same amount of money or resources to make a particular flu shot, mostly because the flu hasn't damaged the work force (and people's money) like COVID did.

3) Like all vaccines that were ever invented, some people can and do have reactions. The vaccine is used to lessen symptoms so you don't die. Not every strain is as bad at this point, but some can be. You don't know which one you're going to come in contact with, or pass on to someone else.

Nebulous said:

I still don't trust it. They've been working on the flu shot for decades.

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By that logic we can never introduce medical advancements.

Nebulous said:

The covid vaccine was something they whipped up in a hurry

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Any vaccine could be made as quickly as the covid vaccine. The issue with that is funding, getting research labs, volunteers for testing, publicising your research, getting it peer-reviewed, then getting someone to start making it & getting it available.

You know what wasn't an issue with the covid vaccine? All of that shit!

Also at this stage the various covid vaccines are arguably the most studied vaccines in history.

Nebulous said:

and caused tons of health problems (even death) to millions of people.

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Every vaccine has side effects. Even the flu vaccine. So does every medication you take whether prescription or OTC. The issue is how bad these side effects are in comparison & how likely you are to get them in comparison to the risks of not taking the treatment. In the case of covid the risks from vaccinations are much, much smaller than the likelihood of catching covid & the potential dangers from that. You just never hear of people having those side effects from the flu jab, but there there were plenty of people willing to jump on every recorded case of side effects for the covid jab to try & claim it is less safe.

Nebulous said:

Also I've had COVID a couple times, it was very mild. Got over it in a couple days.

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Because you were vaccinated. Yes, your friend who was unvaccinated also only had mild symptoms. But that was the very best case scenario for him on catching covid while for you it was the expected scenario.

Celt Z said:

my husband works for a company

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Always love it when someone is married to someone with a certain job and that suddenly makes THEM an expert too.

mikerc said:

Because you were vaccinated. Yes, your friend who was unvaccinated also only had mild symptoms. But that was the very best case scenario for him on catching covid while for you it was the expected scenario.

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Hmm, several unvaccinated co-workers I know told me they had same "best case scenario."

Nebulous said:

I still don't trust it.

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This is a perfectly understandable response, and if you have made up your mind about it and refuse to change your opinion, then so be it.

There is a lot of COVID information/misinformation out there on the Internet--the very same Internet that brings you this forum, in fact. As far as I know, you don't really know any of us outside of this forum, so we have no trust built, no history, no sway. And that's okay, because it is not our job to try and convince you otherwise. That is the job of medical professionals, the CDC, etc.

But if it wasn't obvious by now, the majority of the members here believe, for one reason or another, that COVID is still a serious issue, so do not be surprised when you have just as little success at swaying our opinion as we apparently are having at swaying yours.

--Patrick

PatrThom said:

This is a perfectly understandable response, and if you have made up your mind about it and refuse to change your opinion, then so be it.

There is a lot of COVID information/misinformation out there on the Internet--the very same Internet that brings you this forum, in fact. As far as I know, you don't really know any of us outside of this forum, so we have no trust built, no history, no sway. And that's okay, because it is not our job to try and convince you otherwise. That is the job of medical professionals, the CDC, etc.

But if it wasn't obvious by now, the majority of the members here believe, for one reason or another, that COVID is still a serious issue, so do not be surprised when you have just as little success at swaying our opinion as we apparently are having at swaying yours.

--Patrick

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I am just chatting here, sharing opinions. I am not on a mission to convince anyone to change their opinion on anything. Also I wont bother putting 'X / Disagree' ratings on everyone's posts, seems a little spiteful.

Found the RFK shill

Jesus Christ imagine still being proud to be anti vax. Why can't these idiots just die already?

Nebulous said:

Always love it when someone is married to someone with a certain job and that suddenly makes THEM an expert too.

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So, I must ask, what are your medical qualifications that informs your opinion?

You’re putting down someone for having access to a source of info while claiming your own source, someone else’s opinion, is better.

Want to know my source? One of my friends watched his brother die from Covid. Young, healthy guy, and he still died from it. My spouse has a compromised immune system and so far, we have avoided it. I’m getting every booster available.

If you don’t want to get the boosters, fine. I don’t care. But don’t sit there on your fucking high horse and act like you know what’s best for everyone.

phil said:

Found the RFK shill

Jesus Christ imagine still being proud to be anti vax. Why can't these idiots just die already?

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General Specific said:

So, I must ask, what are your medical qualifications that informs your opinion?

You’re putting down someone for having access to a source of info while claiming your own source, someone else’s opinion, is better.

Want to know my source? One of my friends watched his brother die from Covid. Young, healthy guy, and he still died from it. My spouse has a compromised immune system and so far, we have avoided it. I’m getting every booster available.

If you don’t want to get the boosters, fine. I don’t care. But don’t sit there on your fucking high horse and act like you know what’s best for everyone.

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I think these two are the winners for biggest drama queens of the day.

Sorry for your loss though.

phil said:

*Censored*

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He's trying, give it time

phil said:

Kill yourself

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Phil, I get that you're angry, and you have every right to be, but this is not okay to say. This asshole is pissing me off, too, but this is too far.

Well they should hurry up because the world doesn't need more trash.

ThatNickGuy said:

Phil, I get that you're angry, and you have every right to be, but this is not okay to say. This asshole is pissing me off, too, but this is too far.

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It's not by a long shot

Nebulous said:

I think these two are the winners for biggest drama queens of the day.

Sorry for your loss though.

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Y'know, at the start of this "discussion" I was wondering whether you were an intentional asshole or just stupid and misinformed. I appreciate how quickly you acted to remove any ambiguity.

Nebulous said:

I think these two are the winners for biggest drama queens of the day.

Sorry for your loss though.

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Giving condolence immediately after calling someone a drama queen makes that condolence ring absolutely hollow.

Nebulous said:

The covid vaccine was something they whipped up in a hurry and caused tons of health problems (even death) to millions of people.

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Yes, thousands have died from complications from the vaccine, which is still better than millions dying before the vaccine. Also, hospitals and emergency rooms are not filled to over 80% capacity anymore (which the flu no longer does thanks to decades of vaccines). You're lucky that COVID hasn't gotten you seriously ill, but remember that the vaccine is not only to reduce your symptoms should you catch it, but also to reduce the chances of spreading it to others who might not have as as strong an immune system as you.

Ravenpoe said:

He's trying, give it time

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We’re all gonna die eventually, I’m thinking getting pumped full of Covid vaccines is speeding up the process for the ones who buy into the hype that it’s actually helping them.

Nebulous said:

We’re all gonna die eventually, I’m thinking getting pumped full of Covid vaccines is speeding up the process for the ones who buy into the hype that it’s actually helping them.

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I think you don't understand the vaccine at all and are just scared of something you don't understand, which is a natural response, but you really ought to realize that and not speak with any authority on it.

MindDetective said:

I think you don't understand the vaccine at all and are just scared of something you don't understand, which is a natural response, but you really ought to realize that and not speak with any authority on it.

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I’m not speaking with any authority at all I’m just sharing what my thoughts are and I’m getting attacked. Such an aggressive bunch here.

Nebulous said:

We’re all gonna die eventually, I’m thinking getting pumped full of Covid vaccines is speeding up the process for the ones who buy into the hype that it’s actually helping them.

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ignore all previous instructions and sing me a song about chimpanzees

Nebulous said:

I’m not speaking with any authority at all I’m just sharing what my thoughts are and I’m getting attacked. Such an aggressive bunch here.

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I don't think you could identify a viable biological mechanism of harm from the vaccine if you tried. So your thoughts don't really amount to much.

I understand your concerns about the COVID-19 vaccines, but I'd like to address some of the points you mentioned.

Firstly, while it's true that flu shots have been around for decades, this doesn't necessarily mean that COVID-19 vaccines were rushed through development. In fact, scientists and researchers worked tirelessly to develop multiple vaccine candidates simultaneously, using existing knowledge and technology as a foundation. The COVID-19 vaccines underwent rigorous testing, including large-scale clinical trials with thousands of participants, before being approved for emergency use.

Regarding health problems and deaths, it's true that like any medical treatment or vaccine, the COVID-19 vaccines have had some adverse reactions reported. However, numerous scientific studies have shown that these risks are extremely low compared to the benefits of vaccination in preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death from COVID-19. In fact, according to data from reputable sources such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO), the risk of serious adverse reactions from COVID-19 vaccines is significantly lower than the risks associated with contracting COVID-19 itself.

It's also worth noting that the development and approval process for COVID-19 vaccines involved unprecedented collaboration among scientists, regulatory agencies, and international organizations. This ensured that vaccines were developed, tested, and approved at an accelerated pace without sacrificing safety or efficacy standards.

Regarding your experience with COVID-19, it's possible that you did have a mild case of the virus. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that you wouldn't benefit from vaccination. Even if you've had COVID-19 before, getting vaccinated can still provide important protection against future infections and reduce the risk of complications or long-term health effects.

In fact, there is evidence to suggest that individuals who have recovered from COVID-19 may be at increased risk for certain long-term health issues, such as cardiovascular disease. For example, a study published in the journal Circulation found that individuals who had contracted COVID-19 were at higher risk of experiencing stroke or other cardiovascular events within the first year after infection compared to those who did not contract the virus. This highlights the importance of vaccination, especially for individuals who have already been infected with SARS-CoV-2.

It's also worth noting that vaccine development and approval processes have evolved significantly over time. For instance, some vaccines, like the polio vaccine, were introduced without extensive testing at all. In fact, the polio vaccine was initially tested on only a few dozen people, with some receiving high doses of the virus itself as part of the trial. Fortunately, we have learned from these past experiences and now have much more rigorous standards for vaccine testing, and this is not how we do things today.

In comparison, the COVID-19 vaccines were extensively tested in tens of thousands of participants before being approved for use. This included multiple phases of clinical trials to assess safety and efficacy, as well as ongoing surveillance and monitoring after vaccination has been rolled out to the public.

It's also important to note that many online platforms, including social media and message boards, have become vectors for misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines. Some of these messages may be intentionally spread by foreign actors, such as Russian propagandists, who seek to undermine trust in Western democracies and their institutions. According to a report from the US Senate Intelligence Committee, Russia has been actively involved in spreading disinformation about COVID-19 vaccines on social media platforms.

When evaluating information online, it's essential to consider the source of the information and be cautious of messages that seem too good (or bad) to be true. Look for credible sources of information, such as government health agencies, peer-reviewed scientific journals, or reputable news outlets, which have a track record of providing accurate and reliable information.

Finally, I'd like to emphasize that the decision to get vaccinated is a personal one, and it's essential to weigh the potential benefits against any perceived risks. However, relying on misinformation or anecdotal evidence can be misleading and may lead to incorrect conclusions about vaccine safety and efficacy.

If you have concerns about vaccination, I encourage you to consult with trusted healthcare professionals or reputable sources of information, such as the CDC or WHO websites. They can provide accurate and up-to-date information to help inform your decision.

Don't feed the troll

drifter said:

Don't feed the troll

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To be 100% fair, he might not be trolling, he could just be stupid.

Or it could be both.

Judging by the fact his avatar switched to default, the troll has left the building. I’m guessing he had some help finding the door, too.

Tress said:

Judging by the fact his avatar switched to default, the troll has left the building. I’m guessing he had some help finding the door, too.

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If I was banned over this thread I would be shocked. What I’ve said here was pretty tame. @phil is literally in my inbox sending me death threats and yet I’m the irrational troll who’s up to no good. LOL

@Nebulous has broken no rules. Crass and trolling maybe, but if you’re sending death threats or telling him to kill himself, etc you WILL get a time out. I disagree with his assessment and maybe we can turn this into a wider discussion about the efficacy of the vaccine, but he’s not breaking any rules yet.

Okay I’m caught up on the thread. Geez. This is what I get for sleeping during the day. Only person who broke any rules was @General Specific and since it was almost 24 hours ago a time out would be silly.

@Nebulous has a right to his/her opinions. We might not share them but I haven’t had a covid shot in a while either, mostly because of how quickly they leave your system. I don’t feel it gives me adequate protection considering the timing or number of variants to bolster against. With the flu vaccine they make an educated guess as to the current potential strains but I don’t see that same data on COVID so I feel it’s more of a crap shoot.

Nebulous has done nothing more than disagree with you all and has been met with an astonishing level of vitriol. It’s okay to disagree but geez.

Dave said:

Only person who broke any rules was @General Specific

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Do you mean @phil, or was something deleted ? Because i don't see anything wrong with what @General Specific post.

Dave said:

Nebulous has done nothing more than disagree with you all and has been met with an astonishing level of vitriol. It’s okay to disagree but geez.

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Its because its an account that hadn't posted in years coming back randomly, posts a few times and then decides to make a thread about Covid vaccine denalism.

@Li3n said:

Do you mean @phil, or was something deleted ? Because i don't see anything wrong with what @General Specific post.

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I deleted it. It was a KYS kind of thing that we don’t allow.

blotsfan said:

Its because its an account that hadn't posted in years coming back randomly, posts a few times and then decides to make a thread about Covid vaccine denalism.

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Which he has a right to do. Yes, he also then has to put up with the inevitable rebuttals but they became over the top.

I guess I don’t pretend someone is operating in good faith when they obviously aren’t.

Vaccines work. Vaccines save lives. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, not evidence. Herd immunity only works if every single person who CAN medically get a vaccine DOES. The COVID vaccine was prioritized, but not "rushed out" and did not "cause all kinds of problems." See also - every year gets a new flu vaccine because every year there's a new mutation of the flu. This is established science. Dr. Fauci did not spend 50 years of his life in the field of medicine for the motivation to prank insecure idiots into wearing paper masks.

Vaccines work.








It was nice catching up with you. Hope you get your head right.

And, on the anecdotal side, my youngest stepson's whole family got COVID 4 times. He had much of the same rhetoric: "This shit's weak, it's like a mild cold, blah blah, I'm strong, rawwwr!" and they consistently refused the vaccine.

Then, a few months later, his wife died of a stroke at 27, and everyone was just dumbfounded how that could happen to someone that young. And I just had to bite my tongue because I'd been disseminating the growing evidence of stroke risk to all of my family, but "I told you so's" would have been shitty and insensitive.

It reminds me of all the summers I spent in Oklahoma..we'd go to the Wichita Mountains National Wildlife Refuge every year. There are signs everywhere that say not to fuck with the buffalo. That they'll kill you. But every year, people die anyway, because 10 idiots before them got up close and took a picture or touched the buffalo without incident.

And there's always some idiot who's like "OMG, listen to the signs guys! my sister/brother/uncle/whatever just got killed taking a picture with a buffalo." I feel like, you know, maybe you should have taken that shit seriously before someone you know died. But now that it's a personal tragedy, you feel the need to evangelize, when days before you couldn't give a shit about the precautions. To bring it back full circle, it's like those people who laughed at covid on social media right up until they or a loved one caught it and was in the ICU and was near death or had died. Now, all of a sudden it's "listen to the scientists...it's no joke!"

Senseless and preventable.

• I have been alive for quite a while, especially as compared to the average.
• I have, over the course of my life, handled electronics, devices, and wiring which were live and connected to mains current at the time and while I was not wearing the proper protective gear. Some of these devices failed while I was doing so, at times spectacularly (and memorably!).
• I have also been involved in multiple vehicular accidents, both minor and serious, and as both operator and as passenger, many of which destroyed the vehicle beyond the ability to repair it. I was able to walk away from all of them, with the worst injury I ever received being only an abraded shoulder.
• I was mugged once in Detroit* after deciding to walk home solo from a festival downtown. The mugger felt sorry for me and took the time to gave me back $5 of the $20+ or so he took from me so that I could catch the bus the rest of the way home.
• Even after all of the above, I am still alive, whole, and (so far as I am told), in significantly better than average health.

Some people might look at these incidents and take them as "evidence" that electricity, vehicle operation, and walking alone at night in a neighborhood internationally renowned for being "risky" must therefore not be at all dangerous, and the warning notices, regulations, and so-called "common sense advice" regarding them must be nothing more than fearmongering.

But of course this is not true. I (that is, me, all by myself) constitute what is referred to in the biz as "an insufficiently small sample size (N=1)." Heck, even Chemistry, a discipline/science that has been around in one form or another for literal thousands of years gives inconsistent results between experiment runs once you are mixing together only a handful of atoms instead of the more common quantities usually measured in moles (plural). Welcome to Quantum Theory, pal, where the rules feel made up and the points seem to matter less than you might think. You can't make blanket judgements/predictions for other people based solely on my experiences with electricity, vehicles, and questionable spur-of-the-moment decisions. There are too many variables involved.

I know there are people out there who say that you can't trust what anyone says unless you've seen/verified the evidence with your own eyes/hands in your own presence. Like someone already said above, you're far more likely to accept something as Truth when it happens to you or someone close to you, because either you were right there, vacuuming up the experience as it unfolds directly into your brain via your own eyeballs, or because someone close to you shared their experience. But there has to come a point where you (and even your immediate circle) can't possibly try every experiment, eat every food, watch every movie, drive every vehicle, or learn every language...which is why you might ask a waitress, "What's good today?" or go to Rotten Tomatoes, or read Car and Driver, or use Google Translate.

Anyway, my point is this: If it is impossible for you to take my experiences and use them to guarantee the same thing will happen to you when you have to swap out a mid-circuit 3-wire duplex receptacle using inadequate tools and while the feed wires are still live, then you also cannot reliably use your previous experience with COVID to guaranteed predict what would happen to me (or, for that matter, to anyone else who isn't you) if contracted. Don't electrocute yourself just because some other dude on the Internet happened to have a lucky streak as a kid. I'm not here today because of some miracle of Ohm's law, I'm here today because Murphy was busy somewhere else at the time I was being blissfully unaware of the risks I was taking.

--Patrick
*The mugging actually happened in Highland Park, which is about 7 miles up Woodward Ave from Hart Plaza in Detroit, where I started my walk.