Export thread

I'm sure the title is amusing but first, a disclaimer:
This is not a thread in which I am boasting or bragging. Any responses of such will be completely ignored. Our lifestyle has many many hardships and pitfalls, by no means 100% glorious. Please understand that before you reply.

So without going into alot of unnecessary detail: My wife and I have a sexually open relationship. We both have sexual relationships with other women. Sometimes between the two of us, sometimes separately. We've had it this way for 7 of our 11yrs together. It works for us. It's had its positives and negatives but in the end we feel the pros outweigh the cons.

However there is now a situation in which I am unable to explain to her, in a way that conveys the right message: An attractive, young, single neighbor has moved in next door and she's begun making plans on hitting on/attracting her and I'm unable to convince her it's a bad idea.

I am 100% against this for many many reasons but I can't seem to bring it up to her in a way that doesn't come off, suffice to say, badly. I've tried explaining that if things go wrong, living next to this person would be hellish. To which she replies -It won't end badly, look at the past"- and for the most part she's right. We've never really had problems with -exes-. Secondly our rule has always been that we don't have sexual encounters close to the home to avoid having anyone know where we live. We have 3 teenage children that don't need to be involved in that aspect of our life. To which she replies, -It won't matter because the neighbor would have as much to lose as us to have it go badly-

So I know this thread will probably go off the rails pretty quickly or may just get ignored entirely due to the content but the neighbor is almost finished moving in and has already said she's going to invite us over for dinner sometime soon and I'd really like to have this taken care of before then. Are there any angles I could attack this from or some view that I'm not conveying to her correctly?

100 mile rule... Or something more manageable.

As the expression goes, you don't shit where you eat..... when there's potential for fallout so close to home, it's definitely something to be considered, especially since you say you don't want your kids knowing about that part of y'alls lives.... work the kid angle, I think. Might be best.

Huh... That's rough. If she doesn't listen and it *does* end badly, at least maybe you could use that as an opportunity to bring up some new parameters.

Also, good luck!

I feel like the answer to this should be pretty simple. "We have a loving relationship, and do things with other people because we are comfortable with each other and the thought of doing so. But I am not comfortable with this."

And that should be it. Open relationships can work, there's nothing at all wrong with them, but there have to be clear rules that the others respect. If one party is uncomfortable, it doesn't happen. Full stop. And it works both ways.

Officer_Charon said:

As the expression goes, you don't shit where you eat.....

Click to expand...

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Your explanations to her come off bad because this is a bad idea. Sure, things have been fine in the past, but why play with fire?

sixpackshaker said:

100 mile rule... Or something more manageable.

Click to expand...

Officer_Charon said:

As the expression goes, you don't shit where you eat..... when there's potential for fallout so close to home, it's definitely something to be considered, especially since you say you don't want your kids knowing about that part of y'alls lives.... work the kid angle, I think. Might be best.

Click to expand...

Well since it's always been more of a 5 mile rule, and we already do have a distance rule because of the kids, and I already brought that point up, I'm not sure where to take it from there.

Cajungal said:

Huh... That's rough. If she doesn't listen and it *does* end badly, at least maybe you could use that as an opportunity to bring up some new parameters.

Click to expand...

See normally I'd be ok with that being the result if it was anything but the literal person next door. (Ex: We never bring anyone over to the house, even when the kids are gone for the summer etc). I mean this girl literally just bought the house a month ago, she's not going to leave anytime soon and we sure aren't so that means a very long term -lesson-.

Ravenpoe said:

I feel like the answer to this should be pretty simple. "We have a loving relationship, and do things with other people because we are comfortable with each other and the thought of doing so. But I am not comfortable with this."

And that should be it. Open relationships can work, there's nothing at all wrong with them, but there have to be clear rules that the others respect. If one party is uncomfortable, it doesn't happen. Full stop. And it works both ways.

Click to expand...

This is a very good point. We've always done the -instant stop- if there was any level of uncomfortable-ness. I've done it, and she's done it so we both know how important that is. The only issue is I've pretty much brought up the points I'd use when I tell her I'm uncomfortable with it. However I do see this as being a real solution.

@Charlie Don't Surf - That was the biggest compliment ever. Seriously. Thanks.

Gilgamesh said:

-It won't matter because the neighbor would have as much to lose as us to have it go badly-

Click to expand...

That's false. If she doesn't have children, or she doesn't mind them knowing about her relationships, then she can certainly hold you guys hostage by telling you that she'll make sure your children learn of your lifestyle, or worse. There are lots of places to hide video cameras.

But the bottom line is:

Gilgamesh said:

My wife and I have a sexually open relationship.

Click to expand...

This is a decisions that's already been made. If she persists in engaging in such a relationship, well, that's the deal you two already have. You can tell her you don't want to participate, and it'd have to be her thing, and she'd have to work out any conflicts. Even if you have informal rules about what is and isn't ok, she's obviously disagreed with them in practice, so you don't have any sort of foothold here.

You have to accept her decision and hope she's right about it not blowing up.

A possible problem I see with you putting your foot down, though, is that she may resent it, and you have the same problem - you have to live next door to someone she wants and can't have for years, or feels like she'd have to hide it from you.

From the tiny bit of information you provide, I have to wonder if she agrees with your objections, and is actually teasing you.
Either way, it seems the best solution is to share any new concerns you have with her, tell her you aren't interested in going down that path, and then drop it and let the chips fall where they may. If she's teasing you she won't have any more ammunition. If she's serious, then continuing to push her with the same arguments she's already defended is only going to irritate the situation, and possibly make her more determined to pursue it.

Keep in mind that you don't have to have a sexually open relationship, so you certainly have more options than the above.

Gilgamesh said:

Secondly our rule has always been that we don't have sexual encounters close to the home to avoid having anyone know where we live.

Click to expand...

That would be my sticking point in the argument. This is a rule you both, presumably, agreed to as condition of your open relationship. If she does not follow the rules, she is not respecting you or your agreement. That, to me, is more of a problem than the possibility of things getting ugly between you two & your new neighbor if her plan doesn't work out.

I'd be less concerned about it ending badly and be more concerned with it starting badly. What if this girl is totally freaked out/disgusted by the idea. Then you have to live next door to someone who may be openly aggressive towards you.

stienman said:

But the bottom line is:



This is a decisions that's already been made. If she persists in engaging in such a relationship, well, that's the deal you two already have. You can tell her you don't want to participate, and it'd have to be her thing, and she'd have to work out any conflicts. Even if you have informal rules about what is and isn't ok, she's obviously disagreed with them in practice, so you don't have any sort of foothold here.

Click to expand...

Untrue. Just because a relationship is unorthodox doesn't mean the dynamics of a relationship go out the window. All relationships, mundane or otherwise, are built on trust and understanding. Even if you have an agreement to bring in other people, or see other people, or tie each other up, or paint yourselves blue and re-enact Avatar (No, not the James Cameron movie, an all-smurfs rendition of The Last Airbender... don't judge me) you still have the right to hit the stop button if you start to feel uncomfortable. Whether or not the other person is willing to listen to and understand that feeling is going to differ from relationship to relationship, of course.

I was about to say the same thing as Bowielee. As others have mentioned, because you are trying to keep your kids unaware of your arrangement, you guys have far more to lose in this.

Hopefully, like Stienman said, she could just be pulling your chain. But if she's serious, then what your saying is that your wife talking about putting her desires before the needs of your family. In that case, you may have to put some serious thought and discussion into reevaluating your arrangement.

Bowielee said:

I'd be less concerned about it ending badly and be more concerned with it starting badly. What if this girl is totally freaked out/disgusted by the idea. Then you have to live next door to someone who may be openly aggressive towards you.

Click to expand...

Excellent point.

Gilgamesh said:

@Charlie Don't Surf - That was the biggest compliment ever. Seriously. Thanks.

Click to expand...

I see no Charlie. Are you seeing Charlies where there are none?

Gilgamesh said:

I've tried explaining that if things go wrong, living next to this person would be hellish. To which she replies -It won't end badly, look at the past"- and for the most part she's right.

Click to expand...

But the point of avoiding a risk is to avoid that first time when something does go wrong... I would insist on this, together with the '5 mile rule' because it seems to be the strongest point you have.

If you don't mind me asking, when you have 'insta-stopped' in the past was it because either of you felt uncomfortable (i.e. 'emotional' objections) or were there situations like this in which you had practical (So to speak) objections? If the nature of the objections is very different, is it possible that it may not work so well in this case? In any case, I would try to get her to understand your reasons as much as you can.[DOUBLEPOST=1395790139,1395790101][/DOUBLEPOST]

Zero Esc said:

Excellent point.



I see no Charlie. Are you seeing Charlies where there are none?

Click to expand...

Funny rating

I have absolutely zero experience in this situation and can be of no assistance. However, if I remember correctly, I seem to recall that Tinwhistler might have a similar spousal arrangement, and maybe he has advice.

Zero Esc said:

Excellent point.

I see no Charlie. Are you seeing Charlies where there are none?

Click to expand...

Check who tagged a Funny on the original post.

stienman said:

That's false. If she doesn't have children, or she doesn't mind them knowing about her relationships, then she can certainly hold you guys hostage by telling you that she'll make sure your children learn of your lifestyle, or worse. There are lots of places to hide video cameras.

Click to expand...

To that extent, I would agree with you. I'm pretty sure what my wife meant about -things to lose- was more in the sense of bad blood between neighbors.

A possible problem I see with you putting your foot down, though, is that she may resent it, and you have the same problem - you have to live next door to someone she wants and can't have for years, or feels like she'd have to hide it from you.

Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons why I'm not able to fully push this as a closed subject. I'd hate for something like that to grow with time. Even if she agreed not to do it, there'd still be constant contact with the neighbor and I know that there'd be something there (on my wife's side) that's just growing/wanting.

From the tiny bit of information you provide, I have to wonder if she agrees with your objections, and is actually teasing you.

Click to expand...

Considering we've always had an instant -drop situation- rule in the past that's worked out fine, I'm willing to bet if I really did push the idea that it's not what I'd want it'd be dropped. So I think she's just poking the edges of the agreement to see if I'll let this one slide.

Keep in mind that you don't have to have a sexually open relationship, so you certainly have more options than the above.

Click to expand...

Yep, we took a 1yr break from it when we both were having issues with it, came back to it later and it's been better than before. I don't think it'll get there this time but yes, it's always an option to take a break.

WasabiPoptart said:

That would be my sticking point in the argument. This is a rule you both, presumably, agreed to as condition of your open relationship. If she does not follow the rules, she is not respecting your or your agreement. That, to me, is more of a problem than the possibility of things getting ugly between you two & your new neighbor if her plan doesn't work out.

Click to expand...

Well like I said in my response to Stienman, I think it's more of a -prodding the edges- of the agreement than a flat out disrespecting of our rules.

Bowielee said:

I'd be less concerned about it ending badly and be more concerned with it starting badly. What if this girl is totally freaked out/disgusted by the idea. Then you have to live next door to someone who may be openly aggressive towards you.

Click to expand...

I'll have to give my wife some serious credit here. She can start and end these types of situations more smoothly than I could ever hope to. Some of our best friends are either off/on partners or exes.

tegid said:

I would try to get her to understand your reasons as much as you can.

Click to expand...

Consider, instead, trying to understand her reasons as much as you can. Perhaps you've never had to justify an outside relationship before, but since it obviously violates a few unwritten rules, then surely there's a reason she's pursuing this so enthusiastically, in the face of reasonable objections.

Ravenpoe said:

you still have the right to hit the stop button if you start to feel uncomfortable.

Click to expand...

This is true if they are trying to involve you in something you don't want to do, but in this case she's an adult and isn't trying to involve her husband. They've already chosen an open relationship. There may be rules, and the rules may be strong or weak, but the starting foundation is sexual permissiveness. While I didn't list assumptions or disclaimers, I could have been more explicit:

stienman said:

You have to accept her decision and hope she's right about it not blowing up...

Click to expand...

...unless you are willing to re-negotiate your relationship with your wife. The sexually open relationship is a very, very fundamental change to the basic marriage arrangement, and while you're right that it takes two to tango, and both people have to be on the same page, the door itself is wide open. Gilgamesh assumed the "rules" were understood and accepted between the two, but in this new situation is discovering that either 1) they aren't accepted or 2) she doesn't want to follow them in this particular instance.

It would probably be worthwhile for him to figure out whether he simply misunderstood the arrangement they have, or if there's something unique about this instance that has altered the conditions she wants to work under. This isn't explained in the OP.

The overall tone of the OP isn't one of contention - Gilgamesh is legitimately worried about a new relationship, has discussed it with his wife on a foundation he thought was shared, found that she didn't agree with his concerns, and now he's wondering if there's another approach that would work.

I simply suspect that there really isn't. It's not an issue of love or trust - it's an issue of whether his concerns are valid. It isn't relationship ending - they just have to understand one another and come to an agreement on what to do about this disagreement.

Obviously he could put his foot down, so to speak, and say "no" but while she may acquiesce, it might actually not be the best choice in the long run.

Better to figure out why there was a disagreement in the first place, find common ground, and work from there to make sure that in the future both people are on the same page.

It might be too late this time, but that doesn't mean this can't be used to strengthen the relationship and resolve future issues by setting common expectations.

Gilgamesh said:

So I think she's just poking the edges of the agreement to see if I'll let this one slide.

Click to expand...

It kinda seems like that. There is a great deal of safety in anonymity - not just physical or emotional safety, but "I can drop something and never have to deal with it again" safety. No matter how it goes, good, bad, short, long, you're going to be neighbors for a long time. Even if it's not a bad outcome, it's likely to color all your future interactions with your neighbor, and it's not a small thing.

It may be that it's not a big deal to your wife because she has that silver tongue of hers, and she simply wouldn't be affected by it:

Gilgamesh said:

I'll have to give my wife some serious credit here. She can start and end these types of situations more smoothly than I could ever hope to. Some of our best friends are either off/on partners or exes.

Click to expand...

You've laid out your objections, but I bet the end result is that you'll be extending that line of credit and placing your trust in her.

It does seem like she's seeing how close she can get to the edge of the cliff without falling off, though. It's a bumpy ride down if things go poorly.

As someone who can personally relate (Without going into too many details): Just because nothing has gone wrong in the past doesn't mean nothing will in the future.

One of these days, I'll tell you about the time a girl showed up on my back porch carrying a cheesecake.

If you're trying to keep distance to keep your kids out of it, I'd stay away from the neighbor. People gossip, and though this kind of arrangement is often couched in secrecy, I'd give better odds on all the neighbors eventually finding out about it. And then your kids getting teased at school because of it. And other wives giving your wife the stink eye, because she's a potential man-stealer (regardless of if your arrangement only includes women or not). But that's my personal opinion, naturally.

Tinwhistler said:

One of these days, I'll tell you about the time a girl showed up on my back porch carrying a cheesecake.

Click to expand...

I have this mental image of a girl, standing on your back porch completely naked, and holding up a cheesecake with a delighted smile on her face.

bhamv3 said:

I have this mental image of a girl, standing on your back porch completely naked, and holding up a cheesecake with a delighted smile on her face.

Click to expand...

Less this:


And more this:

Who's to say the neighbour would even be interested? That's possible, too.

Tinwhistler said:

Less this:

And more this:

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd prefer John Cusack to a broken image.

Be happy that people actually want anything to do with you sexually. Some people would kill to feel that way once in a while.

Zero Esc said:

Yeah, I'd prefer John Cusack to a broken image.

Click to expand...

Bleh...anti-hotlinking.
Fixed

Ravenpoe said:

Untrue. Just because a relationship is unorthodox doesn't mean the dynamics of a relationship go out the window. All relationships, mundane or otherwise, are built on trust and understanding.

Click to expand...

I could argue that a sexually open relationship requires even more trust and understanding than the average couple.

Even if you have an agreement to bring in other people, or see other people, or tie each other up, or paint yourselves blue and re-enact Avatar (No, not the James Cameron movie, an all-smurfs rendition of The Last Airbender... don't judge me) you still have the right to hit the stop button if you start to feel uncomfortable. Whether or not the other person is willing to listen to and understand that feeling is going to differ from relationship to relationship, of course.

Click to expand...

This is the reason alot of open relationships fail. Either lack of communicating their feelings in fear they'll upset the other or doing it for all the wrong reasons.

Celt Z said:

Hopefully, like Stienman said, she could just be pulling your chain. But if she's serious, then what your saying is that your wife talking about putting her desires before the needs of your family. In that case, you may have to put some serious thought and discussion into reevaluating your arrangement.

Click to expand...

I honestly don't think she would ever pick anyone over the kids, even me, so thankfully this isn't an issue. I think, if she's being serious, she honestly believes in her head that it wouldn't have a negative impact on any of us. Is she wrong? Possibly, but her intentions are not negative.

tegid said:

If you don't mind me asking, when you have 'insta-stopped' in the past was it because either of you felt uncomfortable (i.e. 'emotional' objections) or were there situations like this in which you had practical (So to speak) objections?

Click to expand...

The time I said -stop- was because the girl at the time was getting way too attached to my wife. She was calling her daily, asking her to webcam with her all the time (before SKYPE, I dread to think what would happen these days with that girl) and showing up at places my wife said she was going to be (I'm going to Dillards to shop in a few hours, then she'd show up there). My wife thought it was harmless because she said that she could end it any time, I felt it was escalating.

The time she said -stop- was because it was a girl I was getting, in her eyes, too close to outside of sexual situations. I was beginning to hang out with the girl as a friend as well as a FB and my wife felt threatened. I never saw this girl as a potential love interest but as a fun friend who was fun sexually as well. Either way, I ended it full stop when my wife brought it up. (funny side note, they became very good friends after that and ended up being one of my wife's maid of honor at our wedding).

Gilgamesh said:

This is the reason alot of open relationships fail. Either lack of communicating their feelings in fear they'll upset the other

Click to expand...

Made it more general because it's true.

I feel like a lot of people learn how to do relationships from stupid sitcoms where the problems would be resolved in two minutes if the couple would communicate.

Zero Esc said:

Made it more general because it's true.

I feel like a lot of people learn how to do relationships from stupid sitcoms where the problems would be resolved in two minutes if the couple would communicate.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but remind me what I'm supposed to do when Mr. Firley gets here?

GasBandit said:

Yeah, but remind me what I'm supposed to do when Mr. Firley gets here?

Click to expand...

You always let Mr. Roper do his thing.

I always loved how Mr. Roper would break the 4th wall and mug for the camera when he had just delivered a particularly sassy punchline.

GasBandit said:

I always loved how Mr. Roper would break the 4th wall and mug for the camera when he had just delivered a particularly sassy punchline.

Click to expand...

Haha, usually about Jack's sexuality.


Here's what we're talking about folks:

"I've been thinking about getting a job again."

"What? What do you know about holding down a job?"

"I used to work for the post office!"

"Yeah, but times have changed since the pony express!" (mugging intensifies)

Boy did the actors who played the Ropers get screwed by the network's attempt at a spin off. Three's Company is a show with a fascinating behind the scenes history.

And man did we ever derail this thread.

Just from the title of this thread alone? I'd say it went in a natural direction.

(Although I realize it's probably not very helpful. Sorry, Gilgamesh!)

Mathias said:

Click to expand...

I'm just so glad you're back sometimes.[DOUBLEPOST=1395944320,1395944096][/DOUBLEPOST]

Gilgamesh said:

-

Click to expand...

Honestly, it seems like you just have to mention that while yes, you're uncomfortable with it, she shouldn't engage in anything because of the kids. The last thing you two want to put them through is having to hear neighborhood gossip about their parents.

GasBandit said:

And man did we ever derail this thread.

Click to expand...

Are you saying it turned into a clusterfuck?

Officer_Charon said:

Are you saying it turned into a clusterfuck?

Click to expand...

PHRASING!

I thought we weren't doing "phrasing" anymore....

Said Ripely to.... nah, it just doesn't work.

From another thread:

Gilgamesh said:

Confirmation:
@Shegokigo arrives on Monday! She just barely made it in under the March deadline she set.

Side note: Kind of funny she'll be here on April Fools. Preemptive information right now, this is not a joke/prank. She really will be here all week.

Click to expand...

Are you going to have to tell her not to have sex with your neighbor, either?

figmentPez said:

From another thread:

Are you going to have to tell her not to have sex with your neighbor, either?

Click to expand...

Shegokigo can't be tamed.

The Buscemi Eyes are just too sexy!

That would just motivate her to get more creative.

Oh, believe me, I chose that pic on purpose.

She actually owns a Hanibal mask. Show of hands, who's surprised?

Side (funny) note: The neighbor is a young 20s Asian girl (omg it's Naiwen!)

Side side note: I don't think I ever saw my sister date/bring home an Asian girl so that'd be interesting.

Side side side note: Due to my sister's current situation, I don't think the neighbor has anything to worry about from her.

Gilgamesh said:

Side side side note: Due to my sister's current situation, I don't think the neighbor has anything to worry about from her.

Click to expand...

From what I can recall, the only way this is true is if Shego's not breathing.

And even then, sleep with one eye open.

Gilgamesh said:

Side side note: I don't think I ever saw my sister date/bring home an Asian girl so that'd be interesting.

Click to expand...

Naiwen should make a topic about it.

Zero Esc said:

Naiwen should make five topics about it.

Click to expand...

Fixed that for you.

Gilgamesh said:

Side (funny) note: The neighbor is a young 20s Asian girl (omg it's Naiwen!)

Click to expand...

Well then you don't have to be concerned with your wife trying to initiate a tryst with her since Naiwen thinks sex is vomit-inducingly repulsive.

Gilgamesh said:

Side (funny) note: The neighbor is a young 20s Asian girl (omg it's Naiwen!)

Click to expand...

Ahem.

There wouldn't, you know, I'm just wondering, but there wouldn't, by any chance, be any photographs of this girl available? I'm just wondering, I'm not really asking for them or anything, I just have a slight—very slight!—feeling of curiosity about this young twenty-something Asian neighbor of yours. It'd be cool, you know, if you have a picture of her. I'm just wondering.

That's not creepy is it?

Is it?

Crap.

bhamv3 said:

Ahem.

There wouldn't, you know, I'm just wondering, but there wouldn't, by any chance, be any photographs of this girl available? I'm just wondering, I'm not really asking for them or anything, I just have a slight—very slight!—feeling of curiosity about this young twenty-something Asian neighbor of yours. It'd be cool, you know, if you have a picture of her. I'm just wondering.

That's not creepy is it?

Is it?

Crap.

Click to expand...

Ｉdunno, I'm kinda interested myself now.

If they share, you may recognise her on TV from the missing person's report, so that'll be a no, I guess