Texas Republican Party Seeks Ban on Critical Thinking

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Don't worry GB, while I have thoroughly enjoyed our discussion, I just don't have the time necessary to devote to these incredibly long responses. My final response on the subject will be much, much shorter. In fact, there's only one point that I really feel needs exposition.
Thank you, it has been a pleasure discussing this issue with you as well. If you don't mind, I'll end with clarifying my thoughts on the final point as well.

I think you misunderstood my point. My point is not that American companies are importing labor to fill jobs that actually exist inside the borders of the US. My point is that American companies are closing jobs in the US, and opening them in foreign countries. 150k jobs per month added net (the gross figure would be closer to 520k per month, but we're losing 373k jobs per month average in the same period) would be much, much higher, if Ford weren't building Ford vehicles in Mexico because there's no longer any import tariff preventing them from selling those vehicles for a lower price than vehicles actually built in the US; and it would be higher still if banks and software companies based their US customer service (meaning service aimed at assisting customers inside the US) inside the US, but we don't. We base them in India, the Philippines, or Panama. Those are jobs which our economy will never get back.
I'm sorry if my response was poorly worded or structured, and led to confusion. I did correctly understand your meaning. My point was that, as things currently are, certain sectors of american manufacturing just aren't competitive with the low cost of manufacturing in some other countries, so as you stated a number of jobs in those sectors have been lost permanently and it is quite possible that more jobs in manufacturing industry will be lost in the future. My view is that just about the only practical way this trend could be reversed is to institute protectionist measures, which will very likely cost you and everyone else more than the benefit they bring, so the current situation might be something USA just needs to accept. However, you have a net increase in jobs employing americans even in the current economic situation, which I believe indicates that, after the economy takes a turn for the better and the slowdown is over, things will start looking a lot better as job growth in other sectors will begin to make up for the lost jobs in the manufacturing sector.
 
Factoring in my raise, Kati's extra part-time income, and the ending of one particular debt (yay!), our "useful" (after-tax) household income probably went up about 15% in total. Factor in the fact that we had to replace our car and the fact that we are raising a (cute) kid, and that means our expenses (including usual COL ones like groceries) went up right around ... 12%. So that's a net increase of about 3%...oh, and Kati will be moving in with her father now, so she will have to leave her part time job and find another on the other side of the State, one which has to be kid-raising-friendly, and our house payment is scheduled to go up 2% in Sept.
I can understand your frustration. But if I may ask, and please feel free to ignore this question if it's none of my business, do you think the current situation is due to your employers being soulless bloodsuckers, or is this perhaps more of a temporary money crunch much like those experienced by many other young couples who are hearing the pitter-patter of tiny feet?
No, I don't believe my employers are bloodsuckers, nor have I ever thought so. Lately, in fact, they have been unexpectedly generous. We were upside-down on my mortgage long before Cary came along (a situation which was the direct result of previously having to get an ex-girlfriend's name off the deed), and we (I) knowingly entered into an upside-down auto loan because we absolutely had to acquire more reliable transportation as soon as possible. What I was saying is that our necessary expenses (auto/home/insurance/medical/utilities/food/etc) appear to be increasing at a rate disturbingly close to the amount we have managed to increase our income(s). There is that axiom which states that, "Expenses will rise to meet income," but I believe that was meant to portray the tendency of people to increase their spending as their income grows, and not our current situation, which is that the effects of the costs of inflation/energy/new clothes/moving/unexpected events/depreciation/loans are coincidentally keeping pace every time we manage to increase our earnings.

I've said before that the only way we're going to make a huge leap ahead is if someone dies. Welp, two people just died, but in such a way that things are actually going to get more expensive for the immediate future, not less. Yay.

Soo...yeah. If I track the paperwork very carefully, I can see that we got a raise. I don't really get to direct it or do anything awesome with it, though. This is what makes articles like this one about wage disparity, this one about the 'new' slave labor, and this one about "educating the work force for work" look more and more appealing to someone seeing things from my perspective.
My take on those three articles:

The first one is interesting, though it seems to try and make a strong connection between the high corporate profits and reduction of employees' benefits. I'm not sure if this is entirely accurate. In the current economic situation where a lot of people are out of a job and not a great deal of hiring takes place, it is true that the companies may enjoy some advantage, but I think that's just one reason. There are many other reasons as well for the high profits. Earlier I listed the effects of adjustment measures, and there are others further still.
The first one shows that corporate profits have increased, and it suggests that this has happened due to employing fewer workers AND paying out less in wages. In other words, the article is suggesting that companies are maximizing their profits by returning less and less of what they gain back into the economy. The graph does not account for benefits/bonuses, but I would posit that hourly employees do not normally enjoy benefits/bonuses beyond vac/sick/health. I would also posit that the people who receive the largest percentage of that compensation which is paid in the form of benefits/bonuses/stock options also tend to acquire assets (locking away value) rather than returning it to the economy. Additionally, keep in mind that corporations are immortal, meaning they can keep sitting on their profits theoretically forever, while real persons will eventually die and return their assets to the pool.
The second one strikes me as a piece of rather sensationalist journalism. Drenched in exaggerating language, it claims exploitation, hints at racism, and suggests some kind of a conspiracy between the judiciary, the executive, and the private sector. I'm not saying there are not things that need correcting in prison labor, but I wonder if the situation is truly as dire and the scale of abuses as significant as the article paints it to be. I mean, "prison-industrial complex"? Really?
There are plenty of articles and analyses out there regarding privatization. Plenty of it is biased, and unashamedly so. But as my wife (who is very smart) will point out time and time again, there are plenty of things that you do not want overseen by someone whose primary interest will be in maximizing profit, and that would be (in my estimation) pretty much anything which falls under the category of 'public interest.' Prisons, infrastructure, welfare, and some would even include health care and agriculture. It only stands to reason that any corporate-owned prison system will not sit on its hands, content to merely earn $x per prisoner housed. No, the shareholders will clamor for the board to think up new ways to extract money from their assets. Labor is one obvious answer. I think public outcry would keep down organlegging...at least at first. Some may think I am being sensational, but I honestly am uneasy at how quickly greed can wear down some people's morals.
As to the third one, there are some professional educators on these boards and perhaps they'd be willing to give a more informed opinion than I can on the goals of the educational system. As I've understood, education is in large part meant to teach students the skills with which they can succeed in life. I suppose job skills would rank quite highly in that. So color me unsurprised if that's what they teach.
The focus of the article is not that necessary job skills are/aren't being taught, it is that the curricula are ostensibly being manipulated in order to "order up" a custom-designed workforce, once which merely has all of the minimum skills required rather than allowing each individual to rise to his or her (presumably higher) level of expertise. There is no need to crush anyone's dreams if they are never allowed to develop any in the first place.

For the skeptical and/or horrified reader, let me be clear that I don't think any of these things are as serious as the articles represent. After all, they are all crafted to get attention for their respective causes, and as such they are built to play heavily on emotion, they deliberately ignore data that don't support their conclusions, and there are more than a few tautological constructs at work. Unfortunately, my faith in the ability of legislators to operate with the welfare of The People foremost in their minds has taken quite a hit lately. For instance, I thought the whole company=person and money=speech thing would get laughed out of Congress, but it got passed. This does not fill me with joy and anticipation about my kid's future.

--Patrick[DOUBLEPOST=1341877343][/DOUBLEPOST]
July 9, 2012 - Never Forget
Ooo, thanks. It's my Dad's birthday, and I almost forgot to call him.

--Patrick
 
The first one shows that corporate profits have increased, and it suggests that this has happened due to employing fewer workers AND paying out less in wages. In other words, the article is suggesting that companies are maximizing their profits by returning less and less of what they gain back into the economy. The graph does not account for benefits/bonuses, but I would posit that hourly employees do not normally enjoy benefits/bonuses beyond vac/sick/health (1). I would also posit that the people who receive the largest percentage of that compensation which is paid in the form of benefits/bonuses/stock options also tend to acquire assets (locking away value) rather than returning it to the economy (2). Additionally, keep in mind that corporations are immortal, meaning they can keep sitting on their profits theoretically forever, while real persons will eventually die and return their assets to the pool (3).
(1) You are right, and that is an important distinction to make. In this case I would perhaps propose going with the idea of corporations cutting personnel expenses, as an umbrella term to account for all included.

(2) Agreed, if that compensation is less liquid. But a person buying some fixed assets with their yearly bonus does put the money into circulation. All in all, I think such things are quite the province of the individual person, and I believe everyone should have full rights to determine for themselves what they do with their own possessions.

(3) While companies can theoretically do that, it doesn't strike me as good business. I think shareholders would like to see corporate profits either invested into something that makes them more money, or handed out as dividends. A company which just sits on top of a pile of money is likely to see some of their indicators dropping.

My main contention with the article was the suggestion that the increase in profits was due to cutting personnel expenses, as I believe there also are many other reasons.

There are plenty of articles and analyses out there regarding privatization. Plenty of it is biased, and unashamedly so. But as my wife (who is very smart) will point out time and time again, there are plenty of things that you do not want overseen by someone whose primary interest will be in maximizing profit, and that would be (in my estimation) pretty much anything which falls under the category of 'public interest.' Prisons, infrastructure, welfare, and some would even include health care and agriculture. It only stands to reason that any corporate-owned prison system will not sit on its hands, content to merely earn $x per prisoner housed. No, the shareholders will clamor for the board to think up new ways to extract money from their assets. Labor is one obvious answer. I think public outcry would keep down organlegging...at least at first. Some may think I am being sensational, but I honestly am uneasy at how quickly greed can wear down some people's morals.
There probably are plenty of things a bit off with the privatised prison system. I'm not that familiar with the US implementation myself. I think if laws have been broken, then the suspects are to be brought on trial. But if everything is legal, then the fault may lie in large measure with the state that failed to draw up an outsourcing contract the terms of which guaranteed some morally acceptable minimum levels of treatment for the inmates. If privatised prisons are not a stillborn idea, then it seems that the things that are wrong with it can be fixed through contractual means.

The focus of the article is not that necessary job skills are/aren't being taught, it is that the curricula are ostensibly being manipulated in order to "order up" a custom-designed workforce, once which merely has all of the minimum skills required rather than allowing each individual to rise to his or her (presumably higher) level of expertise. There is no need to crush anyone's dreams if they are never allowed to develop any in the first place.
I'm not sure I got quite the same impression from the article. Yes, it does support the 'custom-designed workforce' concept, but teaching people only the minimum skills required is what I missed. It seems to me that an engineer or a scientist would bring more value to a business than the cleaning lady, if they were properly educated instead of barely competent (possessing minimum skills necessary).

Of course, an interesting thought experiment might be to give US citizens only basic education, eliminate visa requirements for skilled professionals, and then brain-train in the smart guys from India or somewhere. Saves on education costs, and a dumb electorate is easier to manipulate. An intriguing thought.
 
Of course, an interesting thought experiment might be to give US citizens only basic education, eliminate visa requirements for skilled professionals, and then brain-train in the smart guys from India or somewhere. Saves on education costs, and a dumb electorate is easier to manipulate. An intriguing thought.
Except the general opinion is that those degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on. There's a reason that an American College Education is still seen as prestigious and that you don't often hear of American college graduates having to return to college overseas to continue practicing their profession there.
 
That "theocracy" crap that the republicans have been spouting for the better part of 30 years is such a shame too. I want to be a conservative, I really do. I hate entitlement programs, and I think California and Detroit are great examples of what's wrong with liberal politics.

But I will NEVER vote republican as long as they include religion in their platforms the way they do. All the other "Social Conservatism" really. Every bit of it clashes with my views of "small government" to such an extreme that I would rather vote for economic policy I don't agree with than social policy that I think is flat out evil and unamerican.
I think you and I are political soulmates. This is EXACTLY how I feel about politics as well. I fall somewhere in the gray, murky region between Democrat and Libertarian.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Come to the dark side. You know deep in your heart you are Libertarian.

(Cause, really, most of the country is, they just either don't know about libertarianism, or are too scared/hopeless to buck the 2-party duopoly).
 
Come to the dark side. You know deep in your heart you are Libertarian.

(Cause, really, most of the country is, they just either don't know about libertarianism, or are too scared/hopeless to buck the 2-party duopoly).
I'm not THAT fiscally conservative :p I'm all about downsizing the government and entitlement reform, but I don't necessarily believe in the whole "the free market is the answer to everything! Libraries are a scourge! Any sort of taxation is theft! Let's privatize ALL THE INSTITUTIONS -- there's no way anyone will abuse the shit out of that" philosophy espoused by most libertarians. I consider myself a social liberal and an right-leaning economic moderate.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Liberals/Conservatives: When all you have is a hammer all you see is nails

Libertarians: When all you have is nothing you never see any problems.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I'm not THAT fiscally conservative :p I'm all about downsizing the government and entitlement reform, but I don't necessarily believe in the whole "the free market is the answer to everything! Libraries are a scourge! Any sort of taxation is theft! Let's privatize ALL THE INSTITUTIONS -- there's no way anyone will abuse the shit out of that" philosophy espoused by most libertarians. I consider myself a social liberal and an right-leaning economic moderate.
That's still closer to libertarianism than the two "mainstream" parties. It all boils down to whether you believe the government should get bigger or smaller, be more dictatorial or less. If you said smaller and less, there is only one ideological option, because the others all want to be invasively despotic, either in your wallet or your bedroom.

Plus, electing Libertarians doesn't mean it has to be forever. Maybe after the government has shrunk back a bit, we can go back to being a political deadlock.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Yeah but libertarians believe in cutting parts of the government that I personally find to be invaluable (and probably Droll since we are apparently political soul mates but I won't speak for her.) Like the concept of Environmentalism through Free Market. That's completely absurd and anyone in west Virginia will tell you how well that works. Same goes with the abolishment of the income tax or the IRS. Ok it sounds cool, but it's completely unrealistic, and anyone who argues for something like that is far more concerned with ideology than reality. Or privatising education.

I mean, the list goes on (these are from the party platform.)
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Yeah but libertarians believe in cutting parts of the government that I personally find to be invaluable (and probably Droll since we are apparently political soul mates but I won't speak for her.) Like the concept of Environmentalism through Free Market. That's completely absurd and anyone in west Virginia will tell you how well that works. Same goes with the abolishment of the income tax or the IRS. Ok it sounds cool, but it's completely unrealistic, and anyone who argues for something like that is far more concerned with ideology than reality. Or privatising education.

I mean, the list goes on (these are from the party platform.)
Do you disagree with those concepts worse than you disagree with the federal government telling you what you can and can't do with your reproductive system, or forcing you to bankroll an ever-growing system of crony economics and bread and circuses for the masses while the national debt increases geometrically?

Furthermore, do you believe the election of a Libertarian, or even a majority of libertarians, will instantly mean the abolition of the federal government? That's demonstrably not the case - the democrats had two years where they had filibuster-proof majorities in both the house and the senate as well as the presidency - and still managed to get in their own way enough to get surprisingly little done (thank goodness).

Nobody's saying that we need a libertarian despotism. But the fact of the matter is that those who favor true liberty, economic and social, are so underrepresented as to be nonexistent. The nation would be in a better place if there was a third party that was diametrically opposed to the practices of the other two.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Do you disagree with those concepts worse than you disagree with the federal government telling you what you can and can't do with your reproductive system, or forcing you to bankroll an ever-growing system of crony economics and bread and circuses for the masses while the national debt increases geometrically?
Actually yes. I think that any of the three issues I mentioned (eliminating environmental restrictions, removing the IRS, or privatizing education) would cripple this country in ways that would take decades to reverse. The other issues may be like a cancer slowly killing us. These things would be cutting out your heart to spite your brain.

Furthermore, do you believe the election of a Libertarian, or even a majority of libertarians, will instantly mean the abolition of the federal government? That's demonstrably not the case - the democrats had two years where they had filibuster-proof majorities in both the house and the senate as well as the presidency - and still managed to get in their own way enough to get surprisingly little done (thank goodness).
So I shouldn't be that concerned about their platform because they only talk the big game to get into office. When they get there who knows what will happen. I vote for a man (or party) based on the things that they say they want to do. What other choice do I have? I take them at their word, more or less.

Nobody's saying that we need a libertarian despotism. But the fact of the matter is that those who favor true liberty, economic and social, are so underrepresented as to be nonexistent. The nation would be in a better place if there was a third party that was diametrically opposed to the practices of the other two.
The country would be a better place if the Republican party came back.

Edit: I should add though that while I don't think that the libertarians should really be in office, they do apply good pressure towards the republicans in maintaining some of their ideals. Many libertarians are disenfranchised republicans, and still vote republican.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Actually yes. I think that any of the three issues I mentioned (eliminating environmental restrictions, removing the IRS, or privatizing education) would cripple this country in ways that would take decades to reverse. The other issues may be like a cancer slowly killing us. These things would be cutting out your heart to spite your brain.
I think you overstate. Nobody wants dirty water and toxic air, not even libertarians. They do, however, want an easing of restrictions that are keeping a boot on the throat of american industry, particularly in quasitheological witch-hunt areas such as CO2. The IRS is a relatively recent addition to the government. Privatizing education has been shown to work rather well in other countries. And all these things can be done by degrees, not instantly. Furthermore, that metaphorical cancer has moved into the area where only heroic surgery has any hope. We can not continue in this manner. Can not.


So I shouldn't be that concerned about their platform because they only talk the big game to get into office. When they get there who knows what will happen. I vote for a man (or party) based on the things that they say they want to do. What other choice do I have? I take them at their word, more or less.
Why? Why is it that when it's a democrat or a republican "talking a big game" or otherwise practicing politics, the answer from the masses is "oh, that's just what he HAS to say." Why do you think Libertarians are special, incorruptible ideologues who furthermore cannot be resisted by any other opposing forces?



The country would be a better place if the Republican party came back.

Edit: I should add though that while I don't think that the libertarians should really be in office, they do apply good pressure towards the republicans in maintaining some of their ideals. Many libertarians are disenfranchised republicans, and still vote republican.
The republican party is too far gone. They have more in common with democrats than libertarians. I don't think they'll "come back," it's more likely they'll collapse. And the best we can hope for is that the less idiotic of them find their way to the Libertarian party.
 

Necronic

Staff member
I think you overstate. Nobody wants dirty water and toxic air, not even libertarians. They do, however, want an easing of restrictions that are keeping a boot on the throat of american industry, particularly in quasitheological witch-hunt areas such as CO2.
My take on the system is that it needs to be streamlined and clarified. But the concept of a so-called witch hunt bothers me. In some cases it's true that people demonize industry that create jobs and wealth and do their best to limit pollution. But in other cases it's clear that current regulatory structures are insufficient and companies involved deserve to be demonized for their own willingness to lie, cheat, and steal at the cost of their own workers lives.

And when you have such an intense conflict of interest that things like the Marsallis bring you need some kind of impartial outside eye to make sure that people are doing things the right way. Environmentalism is a place that i feel that the free market fails completely due to the Tragedy of the Commons that exists with Air and Water as well as the opaqueness of the energy market itself (like, could I even determine if Massey energy coal was used to power my house?)

The IRS is a relatively recent addition to the government.
Well, ok ignore the IRS, I was mainly talking about income tax stuff. Eliminating income taxes is absurd.

Privatizing education has been shown to work rather well in other countries.
Where? (not baiting, I'm honestly curious)

And all these things can be done by degrees, not instantly. Furthermore, that metaphorical cancer has moved into the area where only heroic surgery has any hope. We can not continue in this manner. Can not.
I don't think that the cancer is that bad, yet, but it is getting there. But I do agree that things can be done in degrees and that we can not continue in the manner we have been.

Why? Why is it that when it's a democrat or a republican "talking a big game" or otherwise practicing politics, the answer from the masses is "oh, that's just what he HAS to say." Why do you think Libertarians are special, incorruptible ideologues who furthermore cannot be resisted by any other opposing forces?
Two reasons. One is that they are more or less an unknown in office. With democrats and republicans we know, more or less, that there is what they say and what they do. With libertarians we don't. Which brings me to number two. Look at the Tea Party. They HAVE actually been trying to do what they said they did, in part because they have so much to prove now that they have power. And it has been very destructive. They are the first significant 3rd party (if you want to call them that) in a looooonnnnggggg time. Libertarians may have the same need to prove themselves.

I'm not forgiving the sins of the Dems and Reps either. I mean, look at the title of this thread. I do judge them based on what they say as well. And I do appreciate that my attitude is pretty negative/cynical, basically arguing for maintaining a status quo, but when it comes to outlier parties I do feel like I have to take them at their word more than the mainstream duders.

The republican party is too far gone. They have more in common with democrats than libertarians. I don't think they'll "come back," it's more likely they'll collapse. And the best we can hope for is that the less idiotic of them find their way to the Libertarian party.
It's the million dollar question, that's for sure. But I don't know if I'm so cynical. Look at who they brought forward to go after Obama. Not Rick Santorum, the religious right's golden boy. Not Rick Perry, the hardcore texas republican (ok he may have had a chance if he wasn't just so dumb). Not even Newt Gingrich, the 90s era dogmatic neo-con. They chose a Mormon who's own health care policy was used by a democratic presidency as a model for his own. They ignored both the Religious Right and the Neocons on this one. The only thing strikingly conservative about Romney (in the modern sense) is that he is very pro business, and that he has a really clean haircut.

He's no Goldwater. But he's a very interesting change of pace from Bush or Palin (although we have yet to see his runnning mate.)
 
You have a point about Romney but the man himself has been pushing further and further right in the hopes of getting elected. If they running him as he was when he was governor of Massachusetts, I might damned well vote for him. But they're not.
 
That's basically my problem with the Republican candidates of late. For instance, if John McCain had remained the man he was before he tried to become president (and not picked Sarah Palin for VP), I would have actually considered voting for him. But instead of pursuing the traits that made him attractive to me as a candidate, he pandered to the Far Right.

It's really their own fault for pushing me back to the Democrats every election.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Romney is no different. He's a political animal, a moderate windsock who changes his tune according to the prevailing winds. He only looks "pro business" because he's rich. Not to belittle that, it'd be much preferable to have someone in the white house who has actual, real world, commercial experience rather than someone who made a very short career of political agitation. But his past actions speak louder to me than his current rhetoric, just like McCain's did. The only hope Romney has is to make this election all about getting rid of Obama, because nobody really is enthusiastic about Romney. He just happened to be the last man standing in a field populated mostly by flawed candidates. People wouldn't be voting for Romney so much as against Obama. That's how Kerry almost won in 2004.

How I wish Herman Cain hadn't dropped out. THAT would have been an interesting election.
 

Necronic

Staff member
That's also quite possibly the case. He does kind of remind me of McCain, and he is definitely a windsock (which is a problem to say the least). He almost reminds me more of Kerry.

But one thing that still sticks in my gut (in a positive way) is the guys he beat. Every other option represented a pretty specific and "New Republican" position. They were all eschewed in favor of this guy. It could mean that the party is, as you said, incredibly fractured, and the only guy who can get through a primary that devisive is this faceless blob of a candidate. Or it could mean that the mainstream party is getting sick of the influence of it's extremist factions, and chose someone who didn't really belong to one and was more of a traditional republican.

The former is probably true, but the latter is way less depressing.
 
Yeah but libertarians believe in cutting parts of the government that I personally find to be invaluable (and probably Droll since we are apparently political soul mates but I won't speak for her.) Like the concept of Environmentalism through Free Market. That's completely absurd and anyone in west Virginia will tell you how well that works. Same goes with the abolishment of the income tax or the IRS. Ok it sounds cool, but it's completely unrealistic, and anyone who argues for something like that is far more concerned with ideology than reality. Or privatising education.

I mean, the list goes on (these are from the party platform.)
If the Free Market ruled the day, WV would soon become a state of dead men. "Move coal" was the order of the day. If safety or environmental regulations kept you from moving enough coal to suit the boss, you were replaced with someone who would move enough coal.

Oh, and did I mention that black lung disease has made a comeback? A disease that forced WV miners to defy their own union and walk out in 1969 before the union would admit existed?

The Free Market doesn't want immigration reform, either. Without all these imported Mexicans, who is going to work all these gas well, construction, and mine jobs?
 
If the Free Market ruled the day, WV would soon become a state of dead men. "Move coal" was the order of the day. If safety or environmental regulations kept you from moving enough coal to suit the boss, you were replaced with someone who would move enough coal.

Oh, and did I mention that black lung disease has made a comeback? A disease that forced WV miners to defy their own union and walk out in 1969 before the union would admit existed?

The Free Market doesn't want immigration reform, either. Without all these imported Mexicans, who is going to work all these gas well, construction, and mine jobs?
It's not even Coal we need for our energy needs ether. Most of it we sell to China at a grossly inflated fee to fuel THEIR economy.
 
There's a reason WV is considered one of the dumbest states in the Union. The mine owners need to keep it that way. Who else is going to believe all the "Friends of Coal" bullshit they keep spewing about "the guv'mint wants to shut us down and take all yer jerbs!"
 
(2) Agreed, if that compensation is less liquid. But a person buying some fixed assets with their yearly bonus does put the money into circulation. All in all, I think such things are quite the province of the individual person, and I believe everyone should have full rights to determine for themselves what they do with their own possessions.
Technically, you are correct. A millionaire buying a million-dollar toy at the million-dollar store will indeed return a million dollars back into circulation. Unfortunately, that million dollars is very unlikely to trickle down to people who live below the million-dollar mark. A retailer like Audi, or Tiffany's, or Bose tends not to make products in the price range of plebeian folk, so the only way they participate in the economy in a way that benefits the 99% would be by paying wages, and we already discussed that.

To use a weather analogy, the tendency would be for water which evaporates into the atmosphere to remain trapped up there, out of reach, unless some other force acts on it to cause it to condense and fall back to ground level. The more of it that gets trapped, the more heat gets held in, accelerating the evaporation process until the atmosphere has all the moisture and the ground has none.

You can see a similar dynamic in the second view in this video:


...so long as there is still momentum, there is plenty of fluidity and exchange, and there are bubbles of all sizes. But once the bubbling slows down, all you're left with is a few huge bubbles and a few thousand tiny ones, and that's how it stays without the action of any outside force.

Connections and allegory are my thing. I know these are all unrelated events, but I see such similarities in each.

--Patrick
 

GasBandit

Staff member
You want to know what Democrats are? This is what Democrats are:
Massachusetts - the legislature passes a bill that makes it no longer legal to use food stamps to buy tattoos, guns, manicures, porn, jewelry, and body piercings, or to post bail. And the Democrat governor vetoes it.
 
This part confused me
The Massachusetts governor based his decision on the independent
EBT Card Commission

’s ruling that banning specific items was, among other reasons, difficult to enforce, according to The Herald. He did however, veto bans on the use of EBT in places like nail salons and jewelry stores.
I know that when I was at Walmart people weren't allowed to buy anything but food with their EBTs. If you had an order with food and other stuff, the cards would only pay for the food. I don't see how it would be difficult to enforce other than by stores lying about what people purchased.

Edit: never mind. I just remembered people did have some "cash" on their cards that they could use on other stuff. I guess thats what this is for.
 

Necronic

Staff member
It's just a very strange piece of legislation, since it's so completely terrible. It's hard to take at face value since it's so stupid you know?
 
I don't think they do the "food stamps" here in Ohio anymore. Everyone's on those cards now and I can confirm that the stores train their check-out folks to know what does and doesn't count for their purchases... mainly because they've changed how they sell stuff to make it easier for poor slobs to buy the pre-made stuff. To get around the "no hot food" clause that they put in to stop them from buying fast food with the cards, Krogers and Meijer now sell cold versions of all their hot stuff.

I really don't see why you'd even try to use your EBT to try and buy non-food stuff. You only get so much a month and your funds don't carry over. You'd never get enough to buy a gun.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Ehhh.....I dunno.....

I mean, yeah, they vote. But so do a lot of people like me, who, on seeing this news, would quite likely never vote for that politician again.

Anyways. Turns out the reason that he did this was because that method was difficult to enforce due to excessive granularity, and is pushing legislation that focuses on banning EBT purchases at specific stores instead. His reasoning and alternative are backed by the commission that led to all of this in the first place.

As far as I can tell jewlry stores and nail salons still seem to be on the list of approved locations, which doesn't make sense, but there isn't a lot of good coverage on this issue so I don't know for sure what the full package he is recommending includes.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/po...format=&page=1&listingType=MA2004#articleFull

So, you know....much more to the story than the sound bite. Not surprising.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I really don't see why you'd even try to use your EBT to try and buy non-food stuff. You only get so much a month and your funds don't carry over. You'd never get enough to buy a gun.
Depends on how much you get a month, I suppose. I've seen servicable shotguns and low quality pistols on sale for $120.
 
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