TF2 Revenge of the Fallen(thread): Bay doing coke off dead h

[Cog]

It's just over two hours long? I mean, I guess it felt longer since there weren't too many flashing lights and loud noises to distract you.

And again.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

SeriousJay - I'm not talking about everyone that likes Transformers here. I'm just talking about you. You have a pretty definitive track record of hating "smart" films and liking "dumb" films. No one's gonna argue that Michael Bay has ever made an intelligent movie. Everyone that likes a Michael Bay movie isn't an idiot. I love The Rock and Bad Boys.

 

[Bowielee]

I'm going to lay this out as simply as possible. I'm all for you guys having a negative opinion of the movie. That's certainly your right.

What is aggrivating a large majority of us is the air of superiority with which you are stating your case.

That, and, as I said before, calling those of us who enjoyed the movie morons.

 

[Krisken]

Ok, Charlie, went through your links.

Link 1- Roger Ebert- This has been established and has no bearing on our discussion. He's a critic and doesn't count as someone who went to see it because he wanted to see it, but it's his job to see it.

Link 2- IchigoX- Said it wasn't worth seeing in theater, but if you want explosions to rent it when it comes out on DVD

Link 3- No idea. It's Espy quoting a critic. If it's meant to show Espy not liking it after seeing it, I'll take it.

Link 4- Another one by Espy quoting something. Nothing new.

Link 5- Another review quote

Link 6- Juski quoting Gusto

Link 7- Kissinger quoting Ebert

Link 8- Shannow- This one is valid.

Link 9- Far- This one is also valid.

So of 9 links, you have three that went to see the movie and didn't enjoy their time despite the many flaws.

Three still does not equal most.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

I don't THINK I called anyone a moron, but I do think that this divide between critical response and box office success (a phenomenon of which Transformers 2 represents the most significant example) is indicative of anti-intellectualism, a trend that has been evident in both the political and cultural aspects of society.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I'm saying his taste skews towards movies that wouldn't be confused with intelligent movies. That isn't the same thing as saying he is not intelligent at all. Last time I checked, buying 2001 A Space Odyssey doesn't come with a MENSA card.

 

[Espy]

What is aggrivating a large majority of us is the air of superiority with which you are stating your case.

Seriously? People are whining about it out of one side of their mouth and doing it out of the other side at the same time.

I don't care if who likes it and doesn't, but if you come in here and start slinging mud then get pissed when someone slings back grow up. I'm saying that as a mod, I don't want anymore reports about people being mean in here.

 

[Jay]

Let's be honest, there's a few of you that hold your opinion so highly above others, that you'll freely berate people choice of taste simply because it doesn't match your own. You know who you are. We have seen this in multiple threads, not only the Transformers thread. Remember the Boondock Saints thread? There have been others. It may be intended or completely accidental but you'll consistently place little comments here and there to berate others. Instead of being civil and being able to constructively criticize you'll find ways to insult people. You can pretend all you want that you don't intend it to be that way but when you're going out of your way stating, "let me know if I'm out of line", odds are, you're going to go out of line, again and again and again. Most of the mods here are too chicken shit to put people in check, so this problem will always persist in every movie discussion.

Darn shame though, movies are a huge passion of mine and I can't discuss it here without feeling a huge amount of resentment to an alarming amount of people.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

Roger Ebert- This has been established and has no bearing on our discussion. He's a critic and doesn't count as someone who went to see it because he wanted to see it, but it's his job to see it.

What?

Are you serious?

His point of view doesn't apply because it's his chosen profession to review movies?

When was this established, anyway?

 

[Espy]

Krisken, I made several posts after I saw the movie detailing my views of the movie. Here's my main one:

Just got back from it.

Quite possibly the worst over 20 million dollar budget movie I have ever seen.

I wasn't expecting high-film. I expected some sort of continuity. I expected a basic amount of plot. I expected no mixture of day/evening shots in the same scene.
No one cared who made this movie.
No one gave a damn.
It was made for the lowest common denominator. It was made for people who seriously just want to laugh at robots who acted "black" and dogs who had humped.
Honestly, I expected it to be bad. I did. It was beyond bad. It made Wolverine look like Shakespeare.
I am concerned that so many kids sat in the audience, learned that it's cool to call others "pussies", and "bitches", but I was even more dismayed that no one was bothered by it. That is was just all "good family fun". That bothers me more than the sloppy, careless filmmaking.
Personally, I think it just represented what our society wants. Which, in my humble opinion, is a constant stream of poop that allows for the least amount of brain activity.

For the record, I know many of you won't agree, and I know there is a raging battle between groups here. I don't think you are stupid if you liked it, I don't think you are an idiot. I think you are just a regular person. Most people will like this film.
So, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
We can just agree to disagree an move on.

 

[Bowielee]

I
What is aggrivating a large majority of us is the air of superiority with which you are stating your case.

Seriously? People are whining about it out of one side of their mouth and doing it out of the other side at the same time.

I don't care if who likes it and doesn't, but if you come in here and start slinging mud then get * when someone slings back grow up. I'm saying that as a mod, I don't want anymore reports about people being mean in here.

I haven't reported jack shit.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

So of 9 links, you have three that went to see the movie and didn't enjoy their time despite the many flaws.

Critics absolutely count? They're people that SAW the movie and didn't like it. They don't get paid to hate movies, they get paid to review them honestly, and for the most part they do.

And the Juski one counts double, since he's echoing what Gusto said after seeing the movie.

 

[Krisken]

Krisken, I made several posts after I saw the movie detailing my views of the movie. Here's my main one:

Just got back from it.

Quite possibly the worst over 20 million dollar budget movie I have ever seen.

I wasn't expecting high-film. I expected some sort of continuity. I expected a basic amount of plot. I expected no mixture of day/evening shots in the same scene.
No one cared who made this movie.
No one gave a damn.
It was made for the lowest common denominator. It was made for people who seriously just want to laugh at robots who acted "black" and dogs who had humped.
Honestly, I expected it to be bad. I did. It was beyond bad. It made Wolverine look like Shakespeare.
I am concerned that so many kids sat in the audience, learned that it's cool to call others "pussies", and "bitches", but I was even more dismayed that no one was bothered by it. That is was just all "good family fun". That bothers me more than the sloppy, careless filmmaking.
Personally, I think it just represented what our society wants. Which, in my humble opinion, is a constant stream of poop that allows for the least amount of brain activity.

For the record, I know many of you won't agree, and I know there is a raging battle between groups here. I don't think you are stupid if you liked it, I don't think you are an idiot. I think you are just a regular person. Most people will like this film.
So, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
We can just agree to disagree an move on.

That's why I said three and not 2. IchigoX didn't see it, her husband did.

 

[Espy]

I
What is aggrivating a large majority of us is the air of superiority with which you are stating your case.

Seriously? People are whining about it out of one side of their mouth and doing it out of the other side at the same time.

I don't care if who likes it and doesn't, but if you come in here and start slinging mud then get * when someone slings back grow up. I'm saying that as a mod, I don't want anymore reports about people being mean in here.

I haven't reported jack poop.

I know you haven't. Notice the "general" tone of my post. It's for everyone. You just gave me the jumping off point.

 

[Bumble the Boy Wonder]

Am I just not reading enough Halforum, or does it seem like there was some sort of weird partnership that started when RotF came out? :bush:

 

[Jay]

SeriousJay - I'm not talking about everyone that likes Transformers here. I'm just talking about you. You have a pretty definitive track record of hating "smart" films and liking "dumb" films. No one's gonna argue that Michael Bay has ever made an intelligent movie. Everyone that likes a Michael Bay movie isn't an idiot. I love The Rock and Bad Boys.

And again.

I like many times of movies and always go out of my way to watch different genres, I feel that I'm a movie connoisseur but I dislike boring movies that drag too long.

My top 5 movies of all time are :

- Gladiator
- The Last Samurai
- A Beautiful Mind
- Cinderella Man
- The Princess Bride

 

[MindDetective]

Darn shame though, movies are a huge passion of mine and I can't discuss it here without feeling a huge amount of resentment to an alarming amount of people.

To be honest, I get the impression that watching movies is a big passion of yours but that discussing them is not.

 

[Calleja]

Krisken, SeriousJay.. these guys are bored cause they didn't get paid to go see a movie. They want another 20+ page thread to canoodle in. Let them, it's not as if it's worse than a "Say Something About the Poster Above You" thread. There's no point trying to get them to admit they're holier-than-thou intellectual wannabes, they never will. To them their taste is superior, their opinion more valid and if you disagree you need to be shown exactly how much more BETTER than you they are. It's running around in circles.

Of course, if people stop trying to drag Charlie and Kissinger off their high horse they're gonna get bored again. So.. thank you for keeping them in here, I guess.

 

[Frank]

Am I just not reading enough Halforum, or does it seem like there was some sort of weird partnership that started when RotF came out? :bush:

From what I gather reading shit here, they know each other.

 

[Krisken]

So of 9 links, you have three that went to see the movie and didn't enjoy their time despite the many flaws.

Critics absolutely count? They're people that SAW the movie and didn't like it. They don't get paid to hate movies, they get paid to review them honestly, and for the most part they do.

And the Juski one counts double, since he's echoing what Gusto said after seeing the movie.

I'll give you Gusto. Did Juski see it?

 

[Denbrought]

Why haven't be elevated Bumble to the official pantheon under the spheres of fun and awesome, again?

 

[Espy]

Of course, if people stop trying to drag Charlie and Kissinger off their high horse they're gonna get bored again. So.. thank you for keeping them in here, I guess.

Well, the horse they keep beating keeps getting up and biting back every 30 seconds so... Seriously, if you want them to "stop" stop discussing it. Otherwise you are just pressing the gas on the thread of doom. :uhhuh:

 

[Jay]

Krisken, SeriousJay.. these guys are bored cause they didn't get paid to go see a movie. They want another 20+ page thread to canoodle in. Let them, it's not as if it's worse than a "Say Something About the Poster Above You" thread. There's no point trying to get them to admit they're holier-than-thou intellectual wannabes, they never will. To them their taste is superior, their opinion more valid and if you disagree you need to be shown exactly how much more BETTER than you they are. It's running around in circles.

Of course, if people stop trying to drag Charlie and Kissinger off their high horse they're gonna get bored again. So.. thank you for keeping them in here, I guess.

I appreciate your post.

Darn shame though, movies are a huge passion of mine and I can't discuss it here without feeling a huge amount of resentment to an alarming amount of people.

To be honest, I get the impression that watching movies is a big passion of yours but that discussing them is not.

Elaborate?

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Did Juski see it?

Yeah, I have an AIM log chock full of anguish too.

Also, Kissinger and I are roommates. I didn't say anything about it way early on since ya'll would(rightfully so) assume we were the same person.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Here is the crux. Ebert is a smart person, I would never take that away from him. I have been at odds with his opinions on more then one occasion, like his insistence that a video game will never rise to the podium of artform like movies have (Braid would like to have a word with you, Mr. Ebert).

The issue here is that he is a "critic", his entire basis for watching movies is to break them down with a critical eye while giving his own opinion on the content. He has perfected this to a razors edge, but as a human he can never stay impartial. He is never going to be more then just another guy that saw and liked, or disliked, a movie, for reasons that are pretty much his own. I respect his opinion, but I don't take his opinion of the movie as gospel truth, more so since I have seen it. I have disagreed many time with him on various movies that I loved, but he hated.

Also, Kissinger, I tried to refrain mentioning this, but I am a huge fan of movies. I went to film school and got a degree, worked as a gaffer in LA for a short time, and still animate even after moving to Texas. I love older movies made by Orson Welles, or Alfred Hitchcock, even some of the stuff done by Victor Fleming.

I still enjoyed Transformers 2, because I don't watch movies as a critic, I go in and put myself in the mindset of the audience. I think that in the end might be the reason I like it more then most here, I went in to be a person just there to enjoy a movie, and I did. When I want to watch something more high on the narrative scale, I normally rent it for the more personal home experience. That is just my way.

 

[Jay]

That makes sense now.

 

[Krisken]

Did Juski see it?

Yeah, I have an AIM log chock full of anguish too.

Also, Kissinger and I are roommates. I didn't say anything about it way early on since ya'll would(rightfully so) assume we were the same person.

Or were backing each other because you didn't want to break up over it.

Edit to add: That's meant as a comedic jab, not a serious cut down.

 

[Cajungal]

I just wanna say that I find that most people hold at least one thing in their lives up to extremely high almost obnoxious standards. We just happen to be discussing film and not something else, so the two people who are highly interested in what makes a film technically good--and what professional/people who know movies are saying about film--are coming off as snobs.

 

[Espy]

I just wanna say that I find that most people hold at least one thing in their lives up to extremely high almost obnoxious standards. We just happen to be discussing film and not something else, so the two people who are highly interested in what makes a film technically good--and what professional/people who know movies are saying about film--are coming off as snobs.

Great post. You win something.

 

[Calleja]

Of course, if people stop trying to drag Charlie and Kissinger off their high horse they're gonna get bored again. So.. thank you for keeping them in here, I guess.

Well, the horse they keep beating keeps getting up and biting back every 30 seconds so... Seriously, if you want them to "stop" stop discussing it. Otherwise you are just pressing the gas on the thread of doom. :uhhuh:

Oh, I don't plan in talking about the movie itself whatsoever with these guys. I'm not gonna fuel THAT fire. I was just trying to get Krisken and SeriousJay to stop getting offended or worked up about Charlie and Kissinger calling them morons. It's what they do, they're not gonna stop doing it, better to just roll your eyes and keep posting pictures of Bruce.

Unless you're keeping them distracted from the rest of the forum, like these two threads have done to some extent. In that case, I salute you, you awesome martyr!

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

Here is the crux. Ebert is a smart person, I would never take that away from him. I have been at odds with his opinions on more then one occasion, like his insistence that a video game will never rise to the podium of artform like movies have (Braid would like to have a word with you, Mr. Ebert).

The issue here is that he is a "critic", his entire basis for watching movies is to break them down with a critical eye while giving his own opinion on the content. He has perfected this to a razors edge, but as a human he can never stay impartial. He is never going to be more then just another guy that saw and liked, or disliked, a movie, for reasons that are pretty much his own. I respect his opinion, but I don't take his opinion of the movie as gospel truth, more so since I have seen it. I have disagreed many time with him on various movies that I loved, but he hated.

Also, Kissinger, I tried to refrain mentioning this, but I am a huge fan of movies. I went to film school and got a degree, worked as a gaffer in LA for a short time, and still animate even after moving to Texas. I love older movies made by Orson Welles, or Alfred Hitchcock, even some of the stuff done by Victor Fleming.

I still enjoyed Transformers 2, because I don't watch movies as a critic, I go in and put myself in the mindset of the audience. I think that in the end might be the reason I like it more then most here, I went in to be a person just there to enjoy a movie, and I did. When I want to watch something more high on the narrative scale, I normally rent it for the more personal home experience. That is just my way.

Just posting this as a reminder to myself to respond to this post later. I want to respond to it, but don't have the time to write a decent response right now. Everyone else can ignore this post. Pretend that it isn't here. I'll delete it when I have the time to write up a full response to you, ScytheRexx.

-- Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:55 pm --

Oh, I don't plan in talking about the movie itself whatsoever with these guys. I'm not gonna fuel THAT fire. I was just trying to get Krisken and SeriousJay to stop getting offended or worked up about Charlie and Kissinger calling them morons. It's what they do, they're not gonna stop doing it, better to just roll your eyes and keep posting pictures of Bruce.

Unless you're keeping them distracted from the rest of the forum, like these two threads have done to some extent. In that case, I salute you, you awesome martyr!

I don't think I was calling anyone a moron, FWIW

 

[Krisken]

I just wanna say that I find that most people hold at least one thing in their lives up to extremely high almost obnoxious standards. We just happen to be discussing film and not something else, so the two people who are highly interested in what makes a film technically good--and what professional/people who know movies are saying about film--are coming off as snobs.

Which is great. I have high standards in what I like for music. When I was younger, friends called me a music Nazi (crap, Godwin the thread why don't 'cha). Sometimes though we need to realize that while we have different opinions, and that's ok.

Not really offended Calleja. If it bothered me that much, I'd put them on ignore. I'm not really worked up, though it may seem like it.

Charlie- Continuously saying "Intelligent people say it's dumb" comes across as saying "so you are dumb for liking it". I have a feeling you know that though.

 

[MindDetective]

Elaborate?

On what? Watching movies is a passive experience of the art form. Discussing them involves highlighting aspects of the art form that were done well or poorly, such as characterization, the caliber of acting, direction and cinematography, and special effects. This is different from quoting lines from the movie to laugh at again or pointing out which part of the movie was sad or exciting. You can enjoy movies for the experience or you can enjoy them for the artistic merits but rarely both at the same time.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I admit I indirectly called SeriousJay a moron, and I apologize for that.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

You can enjoy movies for the experience or you can enjoy them for the artistic merits but rarely both at the same time.

I would like to respectfully disagree with this particular point, although I mostly agree with the rest of your post.