The American way is dead? Buy a truck and get a gun!!
- Thread starter Thread Necromancer
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Yay stereotypes!
If it gets people to buy their cars, more power to them.
If it gets people to buy their cars, more power to them.
Here's the CNN Video of it, it's hilarious how he flusters the reporter. I'm personally all for this promotion 2A FTW!
CNN video gives a bit more. Plus it's not fox news, I would much rather watch that one.
However it also gave me this little gem as a side note: http://forum.halforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6181
However it also gave me this little gem as a side note: http://forum.halforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6181
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Le Quack
That's something almost all southerners can agree on.
Go guns.
Go guns.
I don't really have a problem with people owning a handgun or a rifle but... I am uneased by the idea of handing out assault rifles. I mean, for fuck's sake.
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Le Quack
Automatic Assault rifles are illegal. The AKs are semi, I believe.
LeQuack is correct a fully automatic rifle is illegal in the US so the AK's are semi-auto. With engineering though you can put a selecter switch in to make it full auto but then it's illegal. I also believe though, with a proper FFL you can own a full auto, and I know for a fact if you fill out the correct forms you can own silencers for your weapons.
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crono1224
Guns and religion 
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I seriously don't see the appeal of guns, even for hunting, I can't imagine with all the possible technology its even fair to the animals. Even with how bows are now, I am pretty sure a person with parkinson's can kill a bunny.
That may have been very insensitive and very inaccurate just a thought though.
.I seriously don't see the appeal of guns, even for hunting, I can't imagine with all the possible technology its even fair to the animals. Even with how bows are now, I am pretty sure a person with parkinson's can kill a bunny.
That may have been very insensitive and very inaccurate just a thought though.
Crono, from a self-defense standpoint nobody ever needs a gun. Except when they do need one, then they really need it.crono1224 said:Guns and religion
I seriously don't see the appeal of guns, even for hunting, I can't imagine with all the possible technology its even fair to the animals. Even with how bows are now, I am pretty sure a person with parkinson's can kill a bunny.
That may have been very insensitive and very inaccurate just a thought though.
I personally carry a Taurus 24/7 pro .40 cal when not at the house, a S&W Sigma 9mm with a tac light for home defense and the wife has a Walther p22 target pistol for the shooting range (Which I haven't talked her into doing yet, she says next weekend for sure lol)
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crono1224
CrimsonSoul said:Crono, from a self-defense standpoint nobody ever needs a gun. Except when they do need one, then they really need it.crono1224 said:Guns and religion
I seriously don't see the appeal of guns, even for hunting, I can't imagine with all the possible technology its even fair to the animals. Even with how bows are now, I am pretty sure a person with parkinson's can kill a bunny.
That may have been very insensitive and very inaccurate just a thought though.
I personally carry a Taurus 24/7 pro .40 cal when not at the house, a S&W Sigma 9mm with a tac light for home defense and the wife has a Walther p22 target pistol for the shooting range (Which I haven't talked her into doing yet, she says next weekend for sure lol)
And how many times have you had to use it?
For that fact, whats even the ratio of gun ownership to it being used for self-defense, then factor in where the situation was escalated because the guy on defense had a gun and felt ballsy, rather than trying to diffuse the situation or try and get out of it.
I am willing to be that the number of times it has come in handy is such a lower number both in terms of total time of owning a gun to times it was used for defense, and number of people that own/need to use it.
Thankfully I've never had to use it. And as a CHL holder I try to de-escilate every situation as if it isn't absolutely necessary to use a firearm I could go to jail for using it.crono1224 said:CrimsonSoul said:Crono, from a self-defense standpoint nobody ever needs a gun. Except when they do need one, then they really need it.crono1224 said:Guns and religion
I seriously don't see the appeal of guns, even for hunting, I can't imagine with all the possible technology its even fair to the animals. Even with how bows are now, I am pretty sure a person with parkinson's can kill a bunny.
That may have been very insensitive and very inaccurate just a thought though.
I personally carry a Taurus 24/7 pro .40 cal when not at the house, a S&W Sigma 9mm with a tac light for home defense and the wife has a Walther p22 target pistol for the shooting range (Which I haven't talked her into doing yet, she says next weekend for sure lol)
And how many times have you had to use it?
For that fact, whats even the ratio of gun ownership to it being used for self-defense, then factor in where the situation was escalated because the guy on defense had a gun and felt ballsy, rather than trying to diffuse the situation or try and get out of it.
I am willing to be that the number of times it has come in handy is such a lower number both in terms of total time of owning a gun to times it was used for defense, and number of people that own/need to use it.
Ah conviction rates of CHL holders to non-CHL holders why I have that information right here from 2007. which is 61,260 total convictions and of that 160 of those convictions were from CHL holders. man I bet the victims of the other 61,100 people wish they had a weapon to protect themselves or their families.
Edit: If it's possible to leave the area safely, say I'm driving in a car and someone tries to run me off the road I can call 911 while I drive, and I choose to use my handgun anyway, I'm in trouble
Edit 2: an armed society is a polite society, let's look at the "Wild West" compared to today:
In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.
Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east:
DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)
-- Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:12 pm --
And for the record I would love to never have to carry a gun but I choose to because a cop is to heavy for me to carry, and when seconds count the cops are only minutes away!
There's also all these examples of using a handgun in self-defense, how dare those people defend themselves with a handgun instead of possibly giving up their lives to the bad guy! That's just so disgusting of the victim to attempt to defend themselves! :humph:
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Le Quack
To be honest, we can't say that those statistics are actually proof that guns dont increase murder rates. There are a whole wide variety of criminological theories that explain murder, with statistics to back them up.
There is also the statistics from the Texas Department of Public Saftey that shows conviction rates from non-chl holders compared to chl holders up there in that first link, the 61,260 people one 
-- Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:22 pm --
Let me get the information off the DPS website, in Texas for all crimes that have the word "murder" in them there were 466 total crimes, of that 4 of those 466 had a concealed handgun license. So I suppose that CHL's increase murder by 4 every year, I'm not sure how many they stop though
-- Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:28 pm --
Here are four possible murders stopped by someone with a handgun (there are more) so I guess it more than evens out in the end This guy should have waited on 911 Oh wait, they didn't answer. Well there's this Woman who should have just locked the door good thing they guy didn't want to rape or kill her! Good thing this store owner had a gun otherwise the two armed men that came in may not have let him live. For the record, robbing a pawn shop full of guns in a stupid idea.
-- Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:22 pm --
Let me get the information off the DPS website, in Texas for all crimes that have the word "murder" in them there were 466 total crimes, of that 4 of those 466 had a concealed handgun license. So I suppose that CHL's increase murder by 4 every year, I'm not sure how many they stop though
-- Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:28 pm --
Here are four possible murders stopped by someone with a handgun (there are more) so I guess it more than evens out in the end This guy should have waited on 911 Oh wait, they didn't answer. Well there's this Woman who should have just locked the door good thing they guy didn't want to rape or kill her! Good thing this store owner had a gun otherwise the two armed men that came in may not have let him live. For the record, robbing a pawn shop full of guns in a stupid idea.
Arguing against someone owning a gun by asking them how many times they have had to use it is rather missing the point. No one WANTS to use a gun, hopefully they never have to. We don't own one, mainly because I don't have the time to learn to shoot and if I'm gonna own one I want to be responsible with it.
And another thing: That CNN reporter needs a good kick in the face. What a condescending bitch.
And another thing: That CNN reporter needs a good kick in the face. What a condescending bitch.
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Le Quack
You know, I might be buying a new car soon, and that place isn't too far away.
I might have to check into this.
I might have to check into this.
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crono1224
I'm not sure how murder statistics stack up vs each other, I feel that there are a multitude of reasons for homicide, and less people = less homicide not just by per capita, but the more people you have in an area the more conflicts on every level that will eventually arise.
Secondly, I don't know if there is a direct corrilation between owning a gun and being any safer. While I subscribe to the idea, if someone got in your face and you pulled out a gun it would scare them away, the next question is are you willing to use it, are you willing to kill a person, maybe they are just a bit crazier and hopped up than you now you are in a sticky situation. Maybe before you could have just lost your wallet and maybe your cell phone, but now you are in a gun to gun, or gun on knife situation.
I don't mean to bemoan the ownership of gun, just to me I find it unlikely to be used in many circumstances if ever.
Secondly, I don't know if there is a direct corrilation between owning a gun and being any safer. While I subscribe to the idea, if someone got in your face and you pulled out a gun it would scare them away, the next question is are you willing to use it, are you willing to kill a person, maybe they are just a bit crazier and hopped up than you now you are in a sticky situation. Maybe before you could have just lost your wallet and maybe your cell phone, but now you are in a gun to gun, or gun on knife situation.
This confuses me, are you going to shoot at someone while driving on the road, it seems highly dangerous unless you are the only two people on the road, god forbid you miss and hit a random person.
I don't mean to bemoan the ownership of gun, just to me I find it unlikely to be used in many circumstances if ever.
I subscribe to the idea that if I feel so endangered that I really need to pull a gun then it is only going to be one tenth of a second later that I am pulling the trigger.
Crono by my statement I mean what if you're driving on a two lane road, at say midnight, some guy passes you, slams on the breaks pulling and blocks both lanes of traffic then gets out of the car and starts walking towards you with a weapon because he's some road rage ass hole. What would you do? That's what I'm talking about, not like rolling road battles or anything of the like, sorry if I wasn't clear on how I wrote that.
And I agree with Necro on that last post
And I agree with Necro on that last post
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Le Quack
I like guns. What if arguments don't really hold well.CrimsonSoul said:
To answer your question: Drive off road.
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Twitch
I've held a man at gunpoint in my home, lucky for him he was far enough away that I gave him a chance. Had he been clearly armed with something more than a crowbar and was ten feet closer...
Anecdotes? Those were actual events that happened to those to peopleBowielee said:
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crono1224
They are 2 events in how many years of guns and cars, and people, etc etc.
I get your feeling you are walking a night in a city and someone follows you and you end up in a dead end alley and have no where to go, that's fine.
Guns at home isn't the same as carrying weapons with you where ever you go.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure most homicides happen by someone you know, so that just kinda makes the whole thing even more strange, and most break-ins occur during the day when no one is home (probably for a reason).
I get your feeling you are walking a night in a city and someone follows you and you end up in a dead end alley and have no where to go, that's fine.
Guns at home isn't the same as carrying weapons with you where ever you go.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure most homicides happen by someone you know, so that just kinda makes the whole thing even more strange, and most break-ins occur during the day when no one is home (probably for a reason).
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crono1224
Sadly i was hoping it wouldn't go into it I mean can't high energizing statements be made without the need for rebuttal
Ok I could do that and I agree that most murders are from people that you know. But how many bank robberies, hold-ups, car jackings, rapes, convient store robberies/shootings, university slayings could be prevented if one of those people had a license to carry a handgun and was able to fend off the attacker?
All 50 states have some sort of handgun carry laws but many people choose not to excercise that right. In Texas concealed carry is legal with a permit, in Wisconsin open carry (wearing a firearm displayed, non-concealed) is legal without any type of permit or background, as well as a few other states. It's not something I agree with though, but it's the way those states interpret the constitution so there's nothing I can do about it.
-- Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:12 am --
This is the event that brought concealed handgun rights back into Texas after they were outlawed since I believe 1895 through the Texas constitution. Random person drives into a luby's (yes, drives into) then starts shooting folks because he could.
I didn't post that to prove that it's an everyday event because it's not but when some people snap they really snap and go out in a big fashion. It's not the good guys that have CHL's that are the problem it's the ones that have guns illegaly be them stolen or possessed by a convicted felon and don't havevalid CHL's that are the ones robbing the stores that we need to protect ourselves from
All 50 states have some sort of handgun carry laws but many people choose not to excercise that right. In Texas concealed carry is legal with a permit, in Wisconsin open carry (wearing a firearm displayed, non-concealed) is legal without any type of permit or background, as well as a few other states. It's not something I agree with though, but it's the way those states interpret the constitution so there's nothing I can do about it.
-- Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:12 am --
This is the event that brought concealed handgun rights back into Texas after they were outlawed since I believe 1895 through the Texas constitution. Random person drives into a luby's (yes, drives into) then starts shooting folks because he could.
I didn't post that to prove that it's an everyday event because it's not but when some people snap they really snap and go out in a big fashion. It's not the good guys that have CHL's that are the problem it's the ones that have guns illegaly be them stolen or possessed by a convicted felon and don't havevalid CHL's that are the ones robbing the stores that we need to protect ourselves from
That story doesn't fit your description at all. The assailant wasn't armed, and they both pulled over. I get your point, but this wasn't a situation where someone blocked the road and wouldn't allow the woman to pass, the woman pulled over voluntarily. What happened to her COULD have been safely resolved without the use of firearms.CrimsonSoul said:
I can really understand the side of the argument saying that people feel safer keeping firearms, like some sort of security blanket, and in some parts of the country, you probably ARE safer carrying a gun. I can't subscribe to the belief, however, that an armed america is a safer america.
Also, no one needs a semi automatic assault rifle except John Mcclane.
Ban all guns (taking it to that extreme, even though you may not be trying to take it to that extreme) for example, that isn't going to stop the bad guys from obtaining them, the black market is a son of a bitch and if someone wants to get a gun they can for whatever reason they have.
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Le Quack
It would certainly make it easier to point out the badguys if no innocents carried guns.
Not that I support gun control.
I think we'd be safer without guns, but I don't think its the governments right to take them away from us.
Not that I support gun control.
I think we'd be safer without guns, but I don't think its the governments right to take them away from us.
No, I'm not taking it to that extreme, however, I can't think of a sane and logical reason that anyone would need a semi automatic rifle. That sort of firearm is only good for active combat, not home protection. A semi-automatic pistol, maybe, but not an assault rifle. THAT isn't about protecting anyone, it's about having an extention of your penis.CrimsonSoul said:
First LeQuack: You can't be a good witness if you're dead
Second Bowielee: Yes and no I still prescribe to the statement that you never need that one weapon until you need it, then you really need it. While at the same time I don't advocate walking down mainstreet with an AR-15 (civilian M16) or AK on your shoulder just because you can (and that is legal (at least in Texas)) or because that is your self defense weapon. But if that person decides to do it legally then that is their right, but I may be watching them closely or choose a different route for me and my family if I'm nearby.
Also, something that you may find outdated, it is our job to overthrow the government if they become too corrupt by whatever means possible. And yes, I find it outdated, but it is still our responsibility. In the grand scheme of things they have their place personally I believe that place is at the shooting range, a gun safe, or traveling in between the two places but I'm not going to try and stop their sell to legally authorized citizens because that doesn't stop bad guys from obtaining them ilegally.
Second Bowielee: Yes and no I still prescribe to the statement that you never need that one weapon until you need it, then you really need it. While at the same time I don't advocate walking down mainstreet with an AR-15 (civilian M16) or AK on your shoulder just because you can (and that is legal (at least in Texas)) or because that is your self defense weapon. But if that person decides to do it legally then that is their right, but I may be watching them closely or choose a different route for me and my family if I'm nearby.
Also, something that you may find outdated, it is our job to overthrow the government if they become too corrupt by whatever means possible. And yes, I find it outdated, but it is still our responsibility. In the grand scheme of things they have their place personally I believe that place is at the shooting range, a gun safe, or traveling in between the two places but I'm not going to try and stop their sell to legally authorized citizens because that doesn't stop bad guys from obtaining them ilegally.
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