[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.

Celt Z

Celt Z

filmfanatic said:
...And now there's a better picture of Joaquin Phoenix as Joker.

Click to expand...
That honestly looks better to me. Even still, DC doesn't have a great track record lately, and I'm still skeptical when they're going back to the Batman well again. It's Bat-fatigue rearing it's head again for me. I'll wait until I see more, but I don't have high hopes.
Post automatically merged:

You know what? On second thought, I think what also bugs me about this is that it's too close to Heath Ledger's Joker. And don't get me wrong, it was genius, but it just seems like if you're going to repeat the style so closely, it's going to pale in comparison.

What I want to know is, what is with the trend of sloppy Jokers lately? Besides trying to piggyback on Ledger, it just feels so weird. The Joker, for as long as I can remember, was the opposite of sloppy. Look at Romeo, Nicholson, Hamill, the comics; Joker was always pristine (unless he was losing). He was all about the details, even in his personal appearance. To me, part of what made the Joker so terrifying was that you never knew when the crazy and the chaos would begin, aside from being a clown. Now it always seems like he can barely be bothered with smearing his grease paint on. Hell, I think he has his own face stapled on now in the comics (Still?). I feel like the subtly and menace has been lost and he needs to be CRAZY JOKER! DIALED UP TO 11! ALL THE TIME! OTHERWISE HOW WILL WE KNOW CRAZY?!
 
Last edited:
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I think that'll depend on the plot they go with. Since this is out of continuity with anything else, here the Joker may precede Batman. This could take place while Bruce Wayne is abroad.
 
Null

Null

There were two reasons the Nolan/Ledger Joker had sloppy paint - one, their Joker was supposed to be more elemental, more a being of raw chaos, than prior versions. It seemed like he had a dozen different schemes up in the air and just used whatever was handy or he felt like at a given moment. Secondly, the creative team had attended a street festival in Chicago during the summer while scouting locations, and one of the street performer clowns was sweating through his makeup, giving it that clotted and peeling appearance. The team agreed it was one of the creepiest things they'd ever seen, so that heavily influenced the look of the Nolan/Ledger Joker.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Hailey Zero Mission said:
I think that'll depend on the plot they go with. Since this is out of continuity with anything else, here the Joker may precede Batman. This could take place while Bruce Wayne is abroad.
Click to expand...
To me a Joker that pre-dates Batman is like having traffic lights that pre-date cars and trains... No, that's not quite right. Uh... Like having a Bizarro that pre-dates Superman?...

Let me think about this.

It's like having lock picks that pre-date keys. Sure, you can have scraps of metal before someone makes the first lock and key, but even if they could function as lockpicks in the future, they're not lockpicks before there's even a lock to pick.

The Joker is an obsessive response to Batman. He has no definitive backstory, but his origin is being a counter to Batman. A criminal clown that exists before Batman isn't THE Joker; he's just a clown that steals stuff and kills people. (Not that most movie Jokers have really bothered with the clown thing. They're insane killers that wear face paint, but they're not really all that funny or clownish.)
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

figmentPez said:
To me a Joker that pre-dates Batman is like having traffic lights that pre-date cars and trains... No, that's not quite right. Uh... Like having a Bizarro that pre-dates Superman?...

Let me think about this.

It's like having lock picks that pre-date keys. Sure, you can have scraps of metal before someone makes the first lock and key, but even if they could function as lockpicks in the future, they're not lockpicks before there's even a lock to pick.

The Joker is an obsessive response to Batman. He has no definitive backstory, but his origin is being a counter to Batman. A criminal clown that exists before Batman isn't THE Joker; he's just a clown that steals stuff and kills people. (Not that most movie Jokers have really bothered with the clown thing. They're insane killers that wear face paint, but they're not really all that funny or clownish.)
Click to expand...

Nolan's joker doesn't really start as an anti-Batman force, either.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

My idea on how to do a Joker movie? Do it as an anthology: take a page from Batman: The Animated Series and have a bunch of Batman's rogues just playing cards together or something and then somebody brings up the Joker... and then each of them tell the story THEY heard about how he became the Joker and have a different director shoot each segment in their style. Then it's not clear which story is true and we get to keep the Joker mystique.

Alternatively, call it JOKERS and have each Joker reenact one of the origin stories and act independently, with a finale where all of them are acting in the same location and it looks like all but one of them died... but we can't tell which one survived.
 
chris

chris

Good idea for a direct to dvd animated movie but Warner/ DC whould never do something like this for a big release. Great for people who read comics and are fans but too artsy and confusing for the big mass.
 
Null

Null

AshburnerX said:
My idea on how to do a Joker movie? Do it as an anthology: take a page from Batman: The Animated Series and have a bunch of Batman's rogues just playing cards together or something and then somebody brings up the Joker... and then each of them tell the story THEY heard about how he became the Joker and have a different director shoot each segment in their style. Then it's not clear which story is true and we get to keep the Joker mystique.

Alternatively, call it JOKERS and have each Joker reenact one of the origin stories and act independently, with a finale where all of them are acting in the same location and it looks like all but one of them died... but we can't tell which one survived.
Click to expand...
Oh man, "Almost Got 'Em" was a fucking fantastic episode.

Killer Croc: "I heard Batman coming up behind me, so I hid, and when he came around the corner... I THREW A ROCK AT HIM!"
Everyone else: ... *creaking of light fixture*
Killer Croc: "...It was a *big* rock..."
 
filmfanatic

filmfanatic

AshburnerX said:
My idea on how to do a Joker movie? Do it as an anthology: take a page from Batman: The Animated Series and have a bunch of Batman's rogues just playing cards together or something and then somebody brings up the Joker... and then each of them tell the story THEY heard about how he became the Joker and have a different director shoot each segment in their style. Then it's not clear which story is true and we get to keep the Joker mystique.

Alternatively, call it JOKERS and have each Joker reenact one of the origin stories and act independently, with a finale where all of them are acting in the same location and it looks like all but one of them died... but we can't tell which one survived.
Click to expand...
I could see something done in the style of Citizen Kane's basic plot. Have someone trying to research into what made the Joker, meeting with different people who claim to know him before he made his big splash and giving their side of the story (with the exact nature of this pre-Joker figure appearing different in these perhaps, some more sympathetic and others more crazy).
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Null said:
Oh man, "Almost Got 'Em" was a fucking fantastic episode.

Killer Croc: "I heard Batman coming up behind me, so I hid, and when he came around the corner... I THREW A ROCK AT HIM!"
Everyone else: ... *creaking of light fixture*
Killer Croc: "...It was a *big* rock..."
Click to expand...
You left out: "So, about that birdhouse..."

That's one of the best episodes.
filmfanatic said:
I could see something done in the style of Citizen Kane's basic plot. Have someone trying to research into what made the Joker, meeting with different people who claim to know him before he made his big splash and giving their side of the story (with the exact nature of this pre-Joker figure appearing different in these perhaps, some more sympathetic and others more crazy).
Click to expand...
Or something similar to the way the Samurai Jack episode "The Princess and the Bounty Hunters" plays with animation styles during the different stories, which would be a way to show the different Jokers.

--Patrick
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

AshburnerX said:
My idea on how to do a Joker movie? Do it as an anthology: take a page from Batman: The Animated Series and have a bunch of Batman's rogues just playing cards together or something and then somebody brings up the Joker... and then each of them tell the story THEY heard about how he became the Joker and have a different director shoot each segment in their style. Then it's not clear which story is true and we get to keep the Joker mystique.

Alternatively, call it JOKERS and have each Joker reenact one of the origin stories and act independently, with a finale where all of them are acting in the same location and it looks like all but one of them died... but we can't tell which one survived.
Click to expand...
This reminds me of that quote from the comics, "When villains want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories."
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
I'm talking with Kags about this, and we've got some pretty differing opinions, but I've come up with a good analogy for what I feel movie Jokers have been like:



Only the Joker, as a character concept, is chili cheese fries, not a bowl of chili. The movie versions are usually a whole bunch of murderous criminal, with a tiny bit of humorous clown; when he should be an amazing mix of: stand-up comic, creepy uncle who puns about everything, frat boy who takes every joke too far, coroner who makes gallows humor jokes, sadist, selfish child, murderer, embezzling CEO, charming bank robber... all topped off with a cheesy dose of birthday party clown.

Chili isn't bad, in fact it's really damn good, but it's not chili cheese fries. Actually, now that I think about it, aside from the lack of Batman, nothing we've seen so far about the Joaquin Phoenix Joker rules out it being actual chili cheese fries.

But really, haven't we had enough chili yet? Can we get a proper Scarecrow? Or maybe let Poison Ivy have another shot?

List of villains I want to see more than The Joker (in no particular order):
1. Poison Ivy
2. Scarecrow
3. Clayface
4. Baby-Doll (no, wait, Hollywood would sexualize the whole thing)
5. The Royal Flush Gang
6. The Ventriloquist and Scarface
 
Last edited:
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

We also don't need to be double and triple stacking villains. Batman has the greatest rogues gallery in comics. Most of the notable ones can carry a story.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

The real reason they're making a Joker movie without Batman, and why no further Batman movies have been announced, is because of Ben Affleck. He technically jumped off the DC ship over a year ago, but he did so by going to rehab for his alcoholism, where he still is, and Warner Bros can't actually sever his contract until he finishes it.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

jwhouk said:
...That's kinda a crappy reason to make a movie like this.
Click to expand...
Not really? They have two choices: ether nix the movie completely and risk...

- Angering the stars who put time aside for this movie, who now have a big hole in their schedule and no income during that period.
- Angering the unions, whose members would be out of work for awhile.
- Angering the caterers, who now have to fill their schedules.
- They've probably already sunk hundreds of thousands into costumes, set design, and more.
- They'd essentially be telling everyone who works in Hollywood that they should avoid working on a DC project for the time being.

... or they can do a low budget release and hope to break even. There IS a point where it costs more to stop making a movie than it does to keep making it and they are way, way past it. They don't even need to release this thing if it's a pile shit, they can just sit on it and write it off like the guys who made that bad 90's Fantastic Four movie did. It's not like they need to worry about losing the rights.
 
Fun Size

Fun Size

I will watch this movie on one condition: it end with the reveal that it was ridiculous Suicide Squad Joker telling Dr. Quinzel the the whole thing, and her calling bullshit.

And even then I'm waiting for the home release.
 
checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Fun Size said:
I will watch this movie on one condition: it end with the reveal that it was ridiculous Suicide Squad Joker telling Dr. Quinzel the the whole thing, and her calling bullshit.

And even then I'm waiting for the home release.
Click to expand...
I will watch it on one condition also:

It is available on a plane during a long flight and I'm just not that interested in the other entertainment available.
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

Hmm, interesting. Black Canary's always been a blonde bombshell in my mind, but a brunette bombshell is fine too I suppose.
 
filmfanatic

filmfanatic

Superman isn't the only DC movie coming back to theaters in November. On November 12th, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm will be back for one night only.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Titans news: it's been revealed that in this universe too, Batman is a murderer. That's why Dick leaves him, and his anger we see in the trailer is because Batman trained him like an attack dog and he's trying to break free of that training.


...
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Hailey Zero Mission said:
Titans news: it's been revealed that in this universe too, Batman is a murderer. That's why Dick leaves him, and his anger we see in the trailer is because Batman trained him like an attack dog and he's trying to break free of that training.


...
Click to expand...
So this is All-Star Batman and Robin, as written by Frank Miller? Does Robin eat rats in this one?
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Hailey Zero Mission said:
Titans news: it's been revealed that in this universe too, Batman is a murderer. That's why Dick leaves him, and his anger we see in the trailer is because Batman trained him like an attack dog and he's trying to break free of that training.
Click to expand...
"We're secretly replacing comics fans' highly principled Batman with Deathstroke instant murder. Can these people tell the difference?"
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

It's revealed in the pilot that Batman screams, "MARTHA!!!" and just starts snapping necks left and right.

Then he checks into rehab.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Spoiler free review from my friend CautiousAmber. She and I have been chatting on Tumblr for years, and she's a bonafide DC super-fangirl. She's obsessed with all things Dick Grayson, and is super protective of the character. She keeps up with the latest comics, cosplays as him, and it's just generally a joy to hear her passion about DC comics. She loves all the BatFam, plus Superman, Teen Titans, Young Justice, etc. She got to see episodes of Titans at NYCC, and she went from "I'm going to enjoy this show ironically, screw the haters!" to well, I'll let her speak for herself, which she does really well:

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top