"Around the survivors, a perimeter create." Wow... just... amazing.
The Star Wars Prequels are good movies. (spin-off from: A Thread For Bold Claims)
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Staff member
Well, I for one never said that's all it was. That being said, I can't say I disagree with you about the prequels. But again, I can't say I agree with you about the originals. I think the actors, particularly Fisher, Jones, and Ford made the characters more than anything the movie makers wrote or directed.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
But I don't think your argument really refutes romanticizing, either. You can find or not find those elements where you want them, and if you want them in the originals, they're there.
North_Ranger
Staff member
In my humble personal opinion, Phantom Menace suffered from being a bit too... candy-flavoured. It felt like watching a movie for small children, only with good CGI instead of guys wearing plastic 'armor' and masks. The feeling of a grand saga, a story of a young man growing up from a farm boy to a hero, was completely missing - and that void was filled by Jar Jar Binks.
As for Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, I believe they would have fared better if they had picked a better actor for Anakin. To me, the prequels were about Darth Vader, the story of a young Jedi's descent into the Dark Side. It could have been epic, a story of conflicting love and duty... and instead we got some kid throwing hissy fits about sand in his mangina. The only time when I really felt we saw Anakin as Darth Vader was when he led the assault on the Jedi Temple in Revenge. Otherwise he was just a whiny little brat who misses his mommy.
As for Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, I believe they would have fared better if they had picked a better actor for Anakin. To me, the prequels were about Darth Vader, the story of a young Jedi's descent into the Dark Side. It could have been epic, a story of conflicting love and duty... and instead we got some kid throwing hissy fits about sand in his mangina. The only time when I really felt we saw Anakin as Darth Vader was when he led the assault on the Jedi Temple in Revenge. Otherwise he was just a whiny little brat who misses his mommy.
But then again, being a whinny little brat, that fell in love with his mommy replacement, is the reason that he flipped to the darkside.
whinny brats = evil...
whinny brats = evil...
North_Ranger
Staff member
Unfortunately,
whiny brats =/= real drama.
Instead,
whiny brats = "drama", as in 'llama face'.
whiny brats =/= real drama.
Instead,
whiny brats = "drama", as in 'llama face'.
It wasn't the actor playing Anakin that failed Episode II--he needed better material and a better director. He's been in other movies and done a good job. Lucas sucks as a director. When you can't get a good performance out of Samuel L. Jackson, you're a shitty director.
Episode II also suffers from being a complete waste of time. It's all build up for the Clone Wars cartoons, so that very little actually happens during the movie.
---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------
Episode II also suffers from being a complete waste of time. It's all build up for the Clone Wars cartoons, so that very little actually happens during the movie.
---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------
Unfortunately, I must spread more rep around before giving more positive rep to Chaz, but posting these is good karma. I'm eager for him to get around to Episode III even though I actually like that one.
Episodes 4 and 5 would have been bad if Lucas had the technology to do what his vision was. In the documentary of Star Wars Lucas wanted Han Solo to be an alien (think Jar Jar here) but couldn't complete his vision. He would have gone over the top with the special effects as well (look at the rerelease). I left 6 out on purpose. Read this article: Did 'Star Wars' become a toy story? Producer Gary Kurtz looks back [Updated] | Hero Complex | Los Angeles Times The original idea for Return of the Jedi had Solo being killed, Rebel forces in tatters, Luke walking off into the sunset while Leia struggled with her position as queen. But that was scrapped for a more family friendly movie.
Episodes 1-3 were poorly written and poorly acted. Lucas was the first to step up and say 'These movies are for kids' which I can accept but if you are making a movie for kids, George, why pepper half the series with a political battle that no kid would ever care about? Episodes 4-6 were fun movies with a simple story of good versus evil. 1-3 not so much fun with a convoluted story going in so many directions you needed a map to find your way out.
Episodes 1-3 were poorly written and poorly acted. Lucas was the first to step up and say 'These movies are for kids' which I can accept but if you are making a movie for kids, George, why pepper half the series with a political battle that no kid would ever care about? Episodes 4-6 were fun movies with a simple story of good versus evil. 1-3 not so much fun with a convoluted story going in so many directions you needed a map to find your way out.
To whomever gave me a negative rep because I dared to say I liked the lightsaber fights in the prequels: You need to lighten up. If you it bothers you THAT much that someone took a little joy from the movies that were admittedly bad in my opinion, you have some serious issues. Also, grow a spine if you're going to be so nasty and sign your comment.
I think it's fine when people use it correctly. Before this I had gotten neg rep, and while I don't care a whole lot about my "reputation" under my name, I thought they were fair comments. Usually I did do something stupid, and it was worthy of an admonishment (or joking admonishment). This struck a nerve, though, because it was a nasty little comment filled with obscenities simply because I said I liked a part of a movie. I have to wonder what mental defect makes a person so certain that their opinion is law that they would send nasty little comments to other people, but so cowardly that they do it anonymously. If you're going to be an asshole, at least have the sack to sign your name to it.
Spoken like someone with a low rep
I wouldn't really say that calling the lightsaber battles "overchoreographed bullshit" is a comment "filled with obscenities".[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, I just read it once and was already primed to go off. It's still annoying, though.
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Element 117
Star wars neg rep= serious bznz
Right he is to worry. Bias runs strong throughtout this thread, yes. Bias leads to hate, hate leads to neg repping, neg repping leads to outlash and outlash leads to hate. hmMMMMmmmm. Circular this prcoess is.
While I enjoyed the Prequels myself, Charlie and the multi part review videos are correct that the prequels were not that great. Not that the original trilogy was a grand apex of cinema but it seemed alot more structured even if not super complex.
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Philosopher B.
When I was a little kid, I fuckin' loved Yoda. He just had this fantastic puppety quirkiness. Aside from his hip-hoppity battles in the prequels, they pretty much ruined his ass. I mean, I guess you could say hanging around in the swamp made him go spotty, but the spotty dude is the dude I wanna watch. The guy who sat around with Samuel L. Jackson while they got their serious-faces on bore little resemblance to the crazy little dude who beat on R2-D2 with a stick over a tiny flashlight.
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Philosopher B.
And that's another of the big problems, I think. I don't wanna see Darth Vader as a kid, just like I don't wanna see Yoda before he started laughing like a hyena and stealing people's food.
And yet, there was STILL potential. How cool would it have been to see Darth Vader actually hunt down the Jedi one by one, rather than them being blown away in two seconds by clone troopers?
Look at the potential for the character arc of such an awesome and classic villain, and what'd we get?
Angels and sand, man. Angels and sand.
And yet, there was STILL potential. How cool would it have been to see Darth Vader actually hunt down the Jedi one by one, rather than them being blown away in two seconds by clone troopers?
Look at the potential for the character arc of such an awesome and classic villain, and what'd we get?
Angels and sand, man. Angels and sand.
I wouldn't really say that calling the lightsaber battles "overchoreographed bullshit" is a comment "filled with obscenities".[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, I just read it once and was already primed to go off. It's still annoying, though.[/QUOTE]
So then, you don't deserve negative rep for the light saber battles, but you DO deserve neg rep for the previous post getting pissed about someone neg-repping you about liking the light saber battles.
I pos and neg rep people all the time and I never sign either; the mystery is half the fun. Though if someone asks me "is this yours?" I won't lie. I'm just not gonna sign them because Juski/Troll/etc call it passive aggressive and want to know who's neg-repping them. If it really doesn't matter to you, then don't cry about it when it's anonymous. I posted one that irritated me in the thread for it because it was a dumb and incorrect comment, but I never asked who did it, called it passive aggressive, or demanded they sign it, and I won't.
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Reboneer
Haha, if you're getting butthurt over rep, you're the one who needs to lighten up. It's a little number under your name, it's not meant to be taken seriously. I'll even sign it next time if it makes you happy.
Next time Halforums goes down, we'll know why.
Damn you Chaz!!! For posting those reviews... I spent the whole night watching those....
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Philosopher B.
RedLetterMedia is a genius!Damn you Chaz!!! For posting those reviews... I spent the whole night watching those....
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Element 117
A creepy genius, no less
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Reboneer
This is true. When a feature-length review of your movie is more entertaining than the movie itself, you know you've completely failed as a filmmaker.
C
Chazwozel
Gotta love Mr. Plinkette
"Get the hell out of my popcorn bucket!"
He performs a more convincing psychotic killer than most actors in movies.
He performs a more convincing psychotic killer than most actors in movies.
Really, when I first saw the prequels my biggest issue was just Jar Jar Binks, however, watching it again recently I have a lot more issues this time around.
The characterization is just screwed up. In Episode 1, Anakin is basically what amounts to a little angel of a kid. He does nothing bad and does not even raise an angry voice at anyone. This is before he goes into Jedi Training, which is supposed to make you even more controlled over your darker emotions, and yet the minute we see him already as a Jedi he is being a whiny bitch complaining about everyone. You also have Obi-Wan, who in Episode 5 even says to Yoda he was once "reckless" turned out to be a regular straight arrow, let's do everything by the book type of Jedi, even when he was just Qui-Gon's little bitch. Yoda has already been mentioned, as instead of a quirky little runt who only spoke weird sometimes, he was a stoic badass whose voice seemed to be a joke about the one thing people remember about his speech patterns.
To many characters were shoe-horned into the story to try and make it connect with the old movies. R2-D2 being one of Naboos droids? C3PO being built by Anakin? Chewbacca getting a 10 second cameo? Boba Fett's father who, what do you know, looks just like Boba Fett because Boba is a CLONE!? See we got Boba Fett in this movie!
Even the villians were forgettable. The Trade Federation? Droids? Are we really going to be fighting a giant group of aliens that basically are a bitch slap at Chinese trader? The fact every movie for some reason had to have a new sith lord in it? Oh look, DARTH MAUL! He is evil and... oh he died... well now we have COUNT DOOKU! Ohhhh and look he SURVIVED Episode 2 so obviously he will be a big threat in the third... oh wait he is dead now... Well GENERAL GRIEVOUS will... oh, dead already. The only reoccurring evil guy was obviously Palpatine, and they made him WAY to obvious.
Really, I can't say what could have made it better, other then what I think made it better in my head. Personally, I would have liked them to drop Anakin as the main character and instead focus on Obi-Wan. Make Obi-Wan into a reckless, hotheaded Jedi who has become a handful for Qui-Gon rather then his loyal pet. Later on in the first movie they find a young boy, angry and alone on Courasant (I know you wanted him to be Luke 0.5 but come on, at least put him on a different planet), but they see deep down he has a good heart.
When Qui-Gon is killed, Obi-Wan decides to take him under his wing not for Qui-Gon, but because he sees a bit of himself in the boy. Movie two, get rid of the Trade Federation, and instead make it so Palpatine is a shadowy figure like the first movie (aka we never see him), that is secretly building his clone army to take down the Republic (not from within, but from outside). Make the main villian under Palpatine be a reoccurring Sith apprentice, not unlike Vadar. The movie will concentrate on Obi-Wan and Anakin becoming close friends, rather then Anakin and Padme having akward dates, at some point in THIS movie Anakin meets Padme and they hit it off, but not with an akward "I love you, but I don't, but I do" crap, they just start dating, maybe near the end. The third movie will be the clones finally attack, and the war occurs causing the Republic forces versus a nearly neverending army of clones. Padme and Anakin already had two children between the movies, Luke and Leia, but with worry of the war spilling to Courasant, Anakin starts doing more and more desperate and questionable things to protect his family.
It all comes to a head when the sith apprentice kills Padme. Anakin hunts him down to the headquarters of Palpatine, where he kills the apprentice only to let his hate consume him, and he blames his friends for letting her die, joining with Palpatine as his new apprentice (making it much more like Luke when he first met the emperor on the second death star, only Anakin lost the mind games). He becomes Darth Vadar, Obi-Wan is pissed, fight occurs, blah blah blah, Obi-Wan runs away with the kids because Palpatine and his army have won and destroyed the senate. He takes one to Aldaraan to stay safe with his old friend Senator Organa and takes the boy with him, giving him to a loving family, but staying close as to watch over him, queue new movies, blah blah blah.
Sorry, rant over.
The characterization is just screwed up. In Episode 1, Anakin is basically what amounts to a little angel of a kid. He does nothing bad and does not even raise an angry voice at anyone. This is before he goes into Jedi Training, which is supposed to make you even more controlled over your darker emotions, and yet the minute we see him already as a Jedi he is being a whiny bitch complaining about everyone. You also have Obi-Wan, who in Episode 5 even says to Yoda he was once "reckless" turned out to be a regular straight arrow, let's do everything by the book type of Jedi, even when he was just Qui-Gon's little bitch. Yoda has already been mentioned, as instead of a quirky little runt who only spoke weird sometimes, he was a stoic badass whose voice seemed to be a joke about the one thing people remember about his speech patterns.
To many characters were shoe-horned into the story to try and make it connect with the old movies. R2-D2 being one of Naboos droids? C3PO being built by Anakin? Chewbacca getting a 10 second cameo? Boba Fett's father who, what do you know, looks just like Boba Fett because Boba is a CLONE!? See we got Boba Fett in this movie!
Even the villians were forgettable. The Trade Federation? Droids? Are we really going to be fighting a giant group of aliens that basically are a bitch slap at Chinese trader? The fact every movie for some reason had to have a new sith lord in it? Oh look, DARTH MAUL! He is evil and... oh he died... well now we have COUNT DOOKU! Ohhhh and look he SURVIVED Episode 2 so obviously he will be a big threat in the third... oh wait he is dead now... Well GENERAL GRIEVOUS will... oh, dead already. The only reoccurring evil guy was obviously Palpatine, and they made him WAY to obvious.
Really, I can't say what could have made it better, other then what I think made it better in my head. Personally, I would have liked them to drop Anakin as the main character and instead focus on Obi-Wan. Make Obi-Wan into a reckless, hotheaded Jedi who has become a handful for Qui-Gon rather then his loyal pet. Later on in the first movie they find a young boy, angry and alone on Courasant (I know you wanted him to be Luke 0.5 but come on, at least put him on a different planet), but they see deep down he has a good heart.
When Qui-Gon is killed, Obi-Wan decides to take him under his wing not for Qui-Gon, but because he sees a bit of himself in the boy. Movie two, get rid of the Trade Federation, and instead make it so Palpatine is a shadowy figure like the first movie (aka we never see him), that is secretly building his clone army to take down the Republic (not from within, but from outside). Make the main villian under Palpatine be a reoccurring Sith apprentice, not unlike Vadar. The movie will concentrate on Obi-Wan and Anakin becoming close friends, rather then Anakin and Padme having akward dates, at some point in THIS movie Anakin meets Padme and they hit it off, but not with an akward "I love you, but I don't, but I do" crap, they just start dating, maybe near the end. The third movie will be the clones finally attack, and the war occurs causing the Republic forces versus a nearly neverending army of clones. Padme and Anakin already had two children between the movies, Luke and Leia, but with worry of the war spilling to Courasant, Anakin starts doing more and more desperate and questionable things to protect his family.
It all comes to a head when the sith apprentice kills Padme. Anakin hunts him down to the headquarters of Palpatine, where he kills the apprentice only to let his hate consume him, and he blames his friends for letting her die, joining with Palpatine as his new apprentice (making it much more like Luke when he first met the emperor on the second death star, only Anakin lost the mind games). He becomes Darth Vadar, Obi-Wan is pissed, fight occurs, blah blah blah, Obi-Wan runs away with the kids because Palpatine and his army have won and destroyed the senate. He takes one to Aldaraan to stay safe with his old friend Senator Organa and takes the boy with him, giving him to a loving family, but staying close as to watch over him, queue new movies, blah blah blah.
Sorry, rant over.
I mostly agree with Scythe above, except that the one thing I DID like about episode 2 was the way Darth Sidious (you might even describe it as... an insidious way...) manipulated the republic against itself. It's made even better in the Episode III novelization (In general I don't care much for Star Wars books, but Matthew Stover takes what might have been an average story and injects it with way more depth than I'd have felt possible), with the description of how the Clone Wars were the ultimate Jedi trap.
Ryan vs Dorkman
--Patrick[/QUOTE]
There are good and bad things with that.
Bad: Way too much twirling when momentum does nothing for an energy weapon (as opposed to a real sword). Some is forgivable for certain manuevers, but like the prequels, it happens way too much. The throwing the light saber up in the air before leaping to his feet. Also the ending...
Good: Kill attempts. One of the dumb things of the many dumb things in the prequel light saber duels (especially Yoda's) is that they seem more interested in hitting each other's light sabers than each other. In this video, you see attempts at going for the kill--the guy in black even swings up to slice between the other guy's legs at one point. There's also the use of physical force when merited. The actual kill was clever too.
The actual kill shows exactly why how Yoda would behave in a lightsaber duel. He simply disarms his opponent with the force, not by jumping around and swinging for the fences. In Yoda vs Dooku, you get the feeling that Yoda is just humouring Dooku during the show of force skills when in reality he could just hoist him up in the air and flop him around like chicken.
I know we seem to be talking about the prequels as a standalone trilogy, but I want to take a second here to address the biggest issues I have with how they connect to the original trilogy.
1) Leia said she remembered their mother, yet she died during childbirth.
2) Obi Wan said Anakin was a fighter pilot when they met, but he was an eight year old.
3) IN ORDER TO HIDE ANAKIN'S CHILDREN FROM HIM, THEY HIDE ONE ON HIS HOME PLANET, WITH HIS UNCLE, AND A JEDI WHOM ANAKIN IS HUNTING DOWN, AND THE OTHER WITH ONE OF THE MOST PROMINENT FIGURES IN THE NEW REBELLION, WHOM ANAKIN IS HUNTING DOWN.
My parents hid easter eggs better than that, fergodssake.
It's like they didn't even go back to watch the original trilogy before writing the new one.
1) Leia said she remembered their mother, yet she died during childbirth.
2) Obi Wan said Anakin was a fighter pilot when they met, but he was an eight year old.
3) IN ORDER TO HIDE ANAKIN'S CHILDREN FROM HIM, THEY HIDE ONE ON HIS HOME PLANET, WITH HIS UNCLE, AND A JEDI WHOM ANAKIN IS HUNTING DOWN, AND THE OTHER WITH ONE OF THE MOST PROMINENT FIGURES IN THE NEW REBELLION, WHOM ANAKIN IS HUNTING DOWN.
My parents hid easter eggs better than that, fergodssake.
It's like they didn't even go back to watch the original trilogy before writing the new one.
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