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The Ultimate Nerd Debate: Solved. Superman vs Goku, the definitive battle to the death

#1

Calleja

Calleja

So, yeah.

http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/death-battle/death-battle-goku-vs-superman

Not much more anyone can add after something so thorough, huh?

It's a 30 minute long video (which is hilarious and incredibly nerdy, but fucking thorough) so be warned. They both have A LOT of powers to go through.

Any objections to the result?


#2

Frank

Frank

The best part is the hurt anime nerds in the comments.


#3

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

It's about what I expected.

At the end of the day, when both guys can easily destroy a planet without even really trying, the guy who can breath in space wins.


#4

Terrik

Terrik

I personally thought Goku would have won.


#5

Calleja

Calleja

No, Supes is really fucking overpowered even after the silver age. I never understood why this was a debate, actually.


#6

tegid

tegid

Can Superman effortlessly destroy a planet? It's a honest question, his powers do not seem to go that way. I'd actually say when comparing them, Superman excels more in invulnerability and speed whereas Goku excels in firepower.
(Haven't watched the video yet)


#7

Bubble181

Bubble181

tegid said:
Can Superman effortlessly destroy a planet? It's a honest question, his powers do not seem to go that way. I'd actually say when comparing them, Superman excels more in invulnerability and speed whereas Goku excels in firepower.
(Haven't watched the video yet)
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Faster than light speed movement in space means you can just drill through the planet in half a dozen places and watch it implode. Or he could blow off the entire atmosphere. Depending on generation Supe's reaaaaallly overpowered.


#8

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/death-battle/death-battle-goku-vs-superman

There, we can finally put this argument to rest. Though I don't think anyone on here has ever actually had this argument.


#9

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

https://www.halforums.com/threads/t...itive-battle-to-the-death.28794/#post-1017330

:)


#10

Gusto

Gusto

Threads merged, moved to Media Madness.


#11

Terrik

Terrik

My problem is that as it has been mentioned, Superman is so inconsistent in his power levels. So he can take "15 novas to the face" but gets beat into a pulp by Doomsday, and yet earth, and hell, even the city around him still stands. It just seems some days Supes is a planet-cracking beast, and other days, powerless Batman can take him out because he's "prepared".

*shrug*


#12

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

I think there would be no winner.

Goku will just take Snake Way over and over/be resummoned back to life by the Dragonballs to be resurrected.
Superman still hasn't truly died, even Doomsday just put him in a -deep coma-.

Stalemate.


#13

figmentPez

figmentPez

Gilgamesh said:
Superman still hasn't truly died, even Doomsday just put him in a -deep coma-.
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The super-coma was the explanation was in the novelization of the storyline, I don't know if it ever was stated that way in the comics. However there is a comic where someone, I think Waverider, tells Superman that he really did die and that it was a one-time thing. That could have just been hand waving to try and make the odds more serious and pretend that major heroes can actually die.


#14

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

figmentPez said:
The super-coma was the explanation was in the novelization of the storyline, I don't know if it ever was stated that way in the comics. However there is a comic where someone, I think Waverider, tells Superman that he really did die and that it was a one-time thing. That could have just been hand waving to try and make the odds more serious and pretend that major heroes can actually die.
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Well major heroes DO die all the time, they just find ways back through super-natural entities. Much like Goku.

I think that if we examine the weaknesses, both of them are too goody-two shoes to really go at it full blast. Goku would win if he would blow up the Planet because that's Supes weakness, his love for the people, but Goku wouldn't kill an innocent soul if he could help it. I think if they had a -fight- it would be over who could SAVE the most people :rofl:


#15

figmentPez

figmentPez

Terrik said:
but gets beat into a pulp by Doomsday,
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Speaking of Doomsday, I think he would be a more fitting match with Goku. They both get stronger every time they get beat to death.


#16

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

I haven't watched the video, but assuming morals are being put aside, couldn't Goku blow up the sun, the source of Supe's power?


#17

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Ravenpoe said:
I haven't watched the video, but assuming morals are being put aside, couldn't Goku blow up the sun, the source of Supe's power?
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He could, but you kind of have to take into account morals when the two characters are both defined by their mercy. Goku wouldn't cheat to win and nether would Superman (who could, conceivably, just melt a hole in Goku's head like he did to Doomsday in the DCAU).


#18

Bubble181

Bubble181

Ravenpoe said:
I haven't watched the video, but assuming morals are being put aside, couldn't Goku blow up the sun, the source of Supe's power?
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Any yellow star gives Supes his powers, he doesn't lose his powers instantly, and he can travel back in time because he's so fast. He could fly to another yellow sun, regenerate some powers, fly back in time, and stop Goku. Admittedly, a bit of a stretch, and you make a good point - against some variations of Supe, Goku ought to win.


#19

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Terrik said:
other days, powerless Batman can take him out because he's "prepared".
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This is the real answer. Batman wins.


#20

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

But could supes best Vegeto? (not Vageta)


#21

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Goku. Since Kame Kame Ha sounds more like a spell than an innate power. Supes can't handle magic.


#22

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

sixpackshaker said:
Goku. Since Kame Kame Ha sounds more like a spell than an innate power. Supes can't handle magic.
Click to expand...
It's officially an innate power, that is effected by your physical strength. Even if it wasn't officially stated, magic and ki are handled very differently in Dragon Ball Z and do wildly different things.

Seriously guys, they spend 15 minutes explaining what their powers are, how their powers work, and what they are good against. Then they spend another few minutes after the fight explaining the math of everything. Just watch the video.


#23

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Sorry, I don't really want to watch a 20 minute video about whether or not Supes can beat Mighty Mouse.


#24

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

*Looks through the Screw Attack video list*

Dammit Calleja, I have work to do today! :mad:


#25

Necronic

Necronic

The real loser of this fight is the viewer, because we have to accept how god awful both of those characters are.


#26

Calleja

Calleja

Superman rocks, I have no idea what you're talking about.

And yeah, every DEATH BATTLE! I've seen has the guy I'm rooting for kick ass. Spidey vs Batman was particularly satisfying. Fuck that disturbed traumatized batweirdo.

And yeah, I'm sorry, if you haven't seen the video why are you even arguing on this? They seriously could not have been more thorough.


#27

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Calleja said:
They seriously could not have been more thorough.
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Isn't that a little bit like explaining the joke. Dissecting something shallow and fun into something serious and debatable, kinda ruins it.


#28

Calleja

Calleja

If you haven't watched the damn thing you have no right to call it boring. You really are an incredibly illogical being.


#29

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Damn, sixpackshaker and Calleja are the new Chaz and makare!


#30

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Calleja said:
If you haven't watched the damn thing you have no right to call it boring. You really are an incredibly illogical being.
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Your reading comprehension is terrible.


#31

Calleja

Calleja

Fine. If you haven't watched the damn thing you have no right to call it "serious".

Sorry for going for "boring" when you used "ruins joke", "debatable" and "serious", I thought that was actually pretty good reading comprehension.[DOUBLEPOST=1357929317][/DOUBLEPOST]*rubs his body with the disagrees* Oh, yes, yes, so comfy, your butthurt is DELICIOUS


#32

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Really? damn you are a douche. I'm butthurt, but you are the one flailing about because I don't want to watch 20 minutes of math and science review of a fight between two fictional beings from different universes.


#33

Calleja

Calleja

hahaha, I got an alert barrage of disagrees, if that's not the definition of butthurt i dunno what is. Just move on and stop trying to piss on every post I make before the mods get all colored font on us. I'm a douche, fine, move on dude.


#34

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Just returning the same favor.


#35

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

This is my new favorite thread.


#36

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Necronic said:
The real loser of this fight is the viewer, because we have to accept how god awful both of those characters are.
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If they were such god awful characters, they wouldn't be remembered and loved by millions of people, recreated in various media, or even have this very video.


#37

Calleja

Calleja

tegid said:
Can Superman effortlessly destroy a planet? It's a honest question, his powers do not seem to go that way. I'd actually say when comparing them, Superman excels more in invulnerability and speed whereas Goku excels in firepower.
(Haven't watched the video yet)
Click to expand...
He has a relativistic punch thing that's like 200 plus 7 zeroes the force needed, in megatons, to destoy Earth. And that's AFTER the reboot where he could do stuff like:



#38

phil

phil

Necronic said:
The real loser of this fight is the viewer, because we have to accept how god awful both of those characters are.
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The real loser of the fight would, somehow, be krillin


#39

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Calleja said:
He has a relativistic punch thing that's like 200 plus 7 zeroes the force needed, in megatons, to destoy Earth. And that's AFTER the reboot where he could do stuff like:

Click to expand...
You know, if his sneeze has enough power to destroy a solar system, it is probably traveling at such high speed that it traveled back in time and started that space plague.

Superman is a monster.


#40

Calleja

Calleja

What we also need to realize is that that panel, more than showing off the incredible power of his sneeze AND speed to get to a distant solar system in instants, is showing us how Superman is fucking omniscient. Not only did he know instantly WHERE to find a "dead solar system" he KNEW it was dead and WHY. He's supposed to be in his 30s!!


#41

Dave

Dave

My take:

They ain't real. This is all hypothetical crap and who wins totally depends on who the authors are. I say the same thing about ESPN when they do the "Which historical NFL team is better?" debates. It's just...a case of utter futility.

And I think Superman is a terrible character as well, not because he's a bad guy or the his powers are so overpowered, but because the storytelling is always disjointed and uneven because he IS so powerful they continually have to shoehorn in ways to make the threat seems even remotely threatening.

It's like the Hulk, but the Hulk works because he's persecuted and gets screwed over all the time and gets into fight reluctantly.


#42

Calleja

Calleja

Dave said:
My take:

They ain't real. This is all hypothetical crap and who wins totally depends on who the authors are. I say the same thing about ESPN when they do the "Which historical NFL team is better?" debates. It's just...a case of utter futility.

And I think Superman is a terrible character as well, not because he's a bad guy or the his powers are so overpowered, but because the storytelling is always disjointed and uneven because he IS so powerful they continually have to shoehorn in ways to make the threat seems even remotely threatening.

It's like the Hulk, but the Hulk works because he's persecuted and gets screwed over all the time and gets into fight reluctantly.
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I think it's unfair to call Superman terrible character because most writers don't get how to write for overpowered gods. Read All Star Superman or Superman For All Seasons and tell me that's the character's fault.

And yeah, the point of DEATH BATTLE! is to solve these nerd debates in a fun, funny way.. while still scouring thoroughly over the character's history and writing. There are rules, no preparation, removing of morality objections on killing (but not other character traits) etc. It's just a fun video. (that ultimately proves Superman would kick Goku's ass, period, cough)

Maybe some of you guys would me more inclined to watch the long-ass thing if you knew one of the "hosts" and creators is It'sJustSomeRandomGuy, from "Hi I'm a Marvel.. and I'm a DC" YouTube fame.


#43

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I really wish people would lay off calling Superman a bad character or that he sucks, yadda yadda yadda. You don't see me going on and on about one of your favourite characters and saying how much they suck, do you? In fact, I will rarely - if ever - say that any particular character sucks. The character doesn't suck. The writer presenting the character may not be good at it.

Just because YOU don't like them doesn't mean they suck.


#44

Calleja

Calleja

ThatNickGuy said:
I really wish people would lay off calling Superman a bad character or that he sucks, yadda yadda yadda. You don't see me going on and on about one of your favourite characters and saying how much they suck, do you? In fact, I will rarely - if ever - say that any particular character sucks. The character doesn't suck. The writer presenting the character may not be good at it.

Just because YOU don't like them doesn't mean they suck.
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I get where you're coming from, dude, but I don't think you should take it personally either. If people can debate things like Jesus' existence respectfully why would you get your feathers ruffled about someone not liking your favorite character?


#45

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
I really wish people would lay off calling Superman a bad character or that he sucks, yadda yadda yadda. You don't see me going on and on about one of your favourite characters and saying how much they suck, do you? Just because YOU don't like them doesn't mean they suck.
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He's fallen victim to bad writing, just like every character has. Buy he has the misfortune of being THE super hero, the big one, numero uno, and for that he gets much more exposure, making the cases of bad writing more obvious and easy to criticize. He is the United States* of comics, of course some people are going to hate him.

*except with less waterboarding


#46

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Because they're just throwing out statements like "he sucks" or "he's too powerful."

I could, for example, say I don't like Batman because all he sucks or because he's "perfect" because he's prepared for anything. I could also say I don't like the character because really, he's just a scared little boy lashing out at the world with his toys.

FYI: I do actually like Batman. I own many of his comics. But I'll take the Boy Scout from Krypton over the psychologically damaged nut in the bat suit any day.


#47

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Calleja said:
Maybe some of you guys would me more inclined to watch the long-ass thing if you knew one of the "hosts" and creators is It'sJustSomeRandomGuy, from "Hi I'm a Marvel.. and I'm a DC" YouTube fame.
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It also has MasakoX from Dragonball Z Abridged, who voices Goku (among others). They also got the a few of the others from that series.


#48

Calleja

Calleja

ThatNickGuy said:
Because they're just throwing out statements like "he sucks" or "he's too powerful."

I could, for example, say I don't like Batman because all he sucks or because he's "perfect" because he's prepared for anything. I could also say I don't like the character because really, he's just a scared little boy lashing out at the world with his toys.
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Yes, you certainly can, and I wouldn't see why even the most devoted Batman fan would get offended cause YOU don't like him. Why is it so personal for you? Dude, it's not your dad we're dissing. The character is important to you for very valid personal reasons, no one can touch those.

You think Supes would mind? He'd LAUGH at their faces. Do so too. :)


#49

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Calleja said:
Why is it so personal for you? Dude, it's not your dad we're dissing.
Click to expand...
... Or is it?


#50

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Oh, I'm not really taking it personally. It just bugs me that whenever the topic of Supes comes up that all some can say is that he sucks or he's too powerful or unrelatable when that can't be any further from the truth. Anyone who thinks Superman's even all about the powers doesn't get the character.


#51

phil

phil

ThatNickGuy said:
Because they're just throwing out statements like "he sucks" or "he's too powerful."

I could, for example, say I don't like Batman because all he sucks or because he's "perfect" because he's prepared for anything. I could also say I don't like the character because really, he's just a scared little boy lashing out at the world with his toys.

FYI: I do actually like Batman. I own many of his comics. But I'll take the Boy Scout from Krypton over the psychologically damaged nut in the bat suit any day.
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Well, he does kinda. He has whatever bat gadget he needs, he could do more good for Gotham with his money than his fist, and he puts children in harms way by dressing them up and having them fight the joker.


#52

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Ravenpoe said:
... Or is it?
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[DOUBLEPOST=1357934154][/DOUBLEPOST]
phil said:
Well, he does kinda. He has whatever bat gadget he needs, he could do more good for Gotham with his money than his fist, and he puts children in harms way by dressing them up and having them fight the joker.
Click to expand...
OH SHIT, WHAT DID YOU DO!? WHY WOULD SAY THAT?!



#53

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Well, this certainly went to a weird place in the course of two pages. I'll have to watch the video later, but I do remember Wizard Magazine had this What If a looooooooong time ago. Found a scan of it.



#54

Calleja

Calleja

Can we all just agree the dudes from DEATH BATTLE! did an incredible job with this video? Look at the all the other DEATH BATTLES!, they're 8min long and use 2-D graphics for the fight. You can tell the production value and time devoted for this was increased exponentially, they were thorough as hell.

They even had that magic stick think Goku uses hurt Superman cause it's magic. I HAD'NT EVEN THOUGHT OF THAT. I was truly impressed, and as far as I'm concerned the debate has been completely and utterly put to rest.


#55

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Oh yeah, getting back on topic, the video itself was really cool. I kinda wish they skipped the first 15 minutes or so, going through each of the character's stats. Those are already available to view separately and were released a week or so ago.

Also, while the fight itself was fun and inventive, it wasn't really well written. I say this mostly because there was nothing really organic to the fight, but more like a shopping list someone was checking off as they went along. "Magic? Check. Kryptonite? Check. Super Saiyan forms 1-4? Check."


#56

Calleja

Calleja

ThatNickGuy said:
Oh yeah, getting back on topic, the video itself was really cool. I kinda wish they skipped the first 15 minutes or so, going through each of the character's stats. Those are already available to view separately and were released a week or so ago.

Also, while the fight itself was fun and inventive, it wasn't really well written. I say this mostly because there was nothing really organic to the fight, but more like a shopping list someone was checking off as they went along. "Magic? Check. Kryptonite? Check. Super Saiyan forms 1-4? Check."
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I hadn't seen any of it, so I think those 15 minutes were crucial.. but I also loved the battle, I think they made a great job of showing each characters' traits (besides the not killing, of course), and they would have NOT been able to get away without that checklist, cause you KNOW nerds would jump on ANY thing they missed and point out what's why their favorite character lost. They had to show everything.

Besides, the fight is really just for fun, the battle's result is decided before.


#57

phil

phil

Plus Goku wouldn't have attacked in a city. He would have taken to where no people would get hurt first.


#58

Calleja

Calleja

phil said:
Plus Goku wouldn't have attacked in a city. He would have taken to where no people would get hurt first.
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One of the rules of DEATH BATTLE! is they remove any moral objections to killing.. then it wouldn't be DEATH BATTLE! Besides, the battle's conclusion is irrelevant to the setting, they did go off after a while to uninhabited places.

(can you tell I love to write the name like that? DEATH BATTLE!)


#59

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

I appreciated that this was like a video game nerd's approach to deadliest warrior.


#60

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

OK, you guys convinced me to watch the video. Utter Bull Shit, this is no death match Goku refused to kill Supes when he had the chance. If the gloves were supposed to be off, then leave the Kryptonite out of the fight.


#61

Calleja

Calleja

sixpackshaker said:
OK, you guys convinced me to watch the video. Utter Bull Shit, this is no death match Goku refused to kill Supes when he had the chance. If the gloves were supposed to be off, then leave the Kryptonite out of the fight.
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Did you watch the long explanation on how Goku has a big weakness in WANTING to have his rival be at his strongest, always? They...addressed that directly. If he'd known Superman's powers were INCREASED by a blue sun, he'd taken him to a blue sun. The battle is to the death, they remove moral qualms about killing, they don't change other traits like Goku's philosophy of actually fighting HIMSELF and his own limits.

They also could have had Superman fight dirty and lobotomize him while he wasn't even Super Saiyan 1. But that's not what Superman is about either.


#62

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

I have to agree with Calleja here, at least in so far as Goku does stupid as shit things sometimes in fights to the death. Like giving Cell a senzu bean, for example.


#63

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

So Goku did not fight to win. Supes did. Goku was fighting for fun and Supes kills the planet... Their rules need more stabilizing.


#64

Calleja

Calleja

He also refused to take advantage of weak points like Vegeta's tail and whatnot.

It really is kind of big headed of him when was at stake is HUMANITY ITSELF, but he does it all the time anyway.


#65

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

SpecialKO said:
I have to agree with Calleja here, at least in so far as Goku does stupid as shit things sometimes in fights to the death. Like giving Cell a senzu bean, for example.
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Or let Freiza power up to his highest power. Well, at least he did it for TWO crust-filled pizzas. According to Dragonball Z Abridged, anyway. Which is the only DBZ canon now, in my mind.


#66

Calleja

Calleja

sixpackshaker said:
So Goku did not fight to win. Supes did. Goku was fighting for fun and Supes kills the planet... Their rules need more stabilizing.
Click to expand...


#67

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

...deathmatch, do what you can to win. Like I said leave out the Kryptonite, and the magic pole, then they can continue the love of Supes.


#68

Calleja

Calleja

Your logic is appalling in it's utter nonexistence. Read the rules, the only character traits removed are the objections to killing, not the strategies they'd use to get it. Goku would have killed Superman, he wasn't doing it for "fun", he just wouldn't have done it if he didn't felt it was against Superman's very best.

I realize you're just following me around and disagreeing with everything I say anyway, so I'll just ignore you and get on with it.


#69

strawman

strawman

I am still fascinated at how important such discussions are to people. I'm imagining that if you two were in the same room this would be a WWF brawl with chairs and ladders.



#70

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Calleja said:
Your logic is appalling in it's utter nonexistence. Read the rules, the only character traits removed are the objections to killing, not the strategies they'd use to get it. Goku would have killed Superman, he wasn't doing it for "fun", he just wouldn't have done it if he didn't felt it was against Superman's very best.

I realize you're just following me around and disagreeing with everything I say anyway, so I'll just ignore you and get on with it.
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Uh, look in the mirror. Who started with the X barrage? And disagreeing with every thing I say.


#71

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Psh, you don't know what an X barrage is until you try buying every X-Men related comic that comes out every month.


#72

Covar

Covar

phil said:
Well, he does kinda. He has whatever bat gadget he needs, he could do more good for Gotham with his money than his fist, and he puts children in harms way by dressing them up and having them fight the joker.
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I just want to point out that Bruce Wayne uses his money to do a ton of good for Gotham City, and Wayne Enterprises is one of the cities leading employers of ex-cons. It's one of the things that makes the character so awesome, and why Bruce Wayne is important to the character, he fights crime on all levels.

ThatNickGuy is right. Characters like Batman and pretty much every comic super-hero are just as unstoppable as Superman. The need to inform people you think he sucks just comes across as annoying, immature, and especially unsolicited. To be as trolling as some here, no one gives a shit that you don't like the Man of Steel.


#73

Calleja

Calleja

sixpackshaker said:
Uh, look in the mirror. Who started with the X barrage? And disagreeing with every thing I say.
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Dude... I don't know WHY you take the disagrees so personally, but I *NEVER* barraged you, I will fucking get dave and the mods on the history for this if you insist. I disagree'd with posts you, and anyone, makes as I see them, but I didn't scroll to every single post you made in a thread and clicked the disagree. A barrage is receiving 9 disagrees in 15 seconds, not one every fucking hour.

Grow the fuck up.


#74

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Calleja and sixpackshaker, me thinks this is the part where you both step away from the computer for awhile.

(Actually, I think that part was about a page ago.)


#75

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Anyonelse remembering the old Superman vs Hulk thread about now?


#76

Calleja

Calleja

Nah, the thing with sixpackshaker and me has nothing to do with this thread. You'll notice the guy wasn't even interested in the video at first and still came around disagreeing, he's been butthurt at me ever since the "bigotry" thread. I'll call him on his bullshit every time I see it cause I'm bullheaded like that, yeah, but it's not about comics, believe me.


#77

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
Calleja and sixpackshaker, me thinks this is the part where you both step away from the computer for awhile.

(Actually, I think that part was about a page ago.)
Click to expand...
Quiet you, let this play out.

The makeup sex will be great.


#78

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Calleja said:
Nah, the thing with sixpackshaker and I has nothing to do with this thread. You'll notice the guy wasn't even interested in the video at first and still came around disagreeing, he's been butthurt at me ever since the "bigotry" thread. I'll call him on his bullshit every time I see it cause I'm bullheaded like that, yeah, but it's not about comics, believe me.
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I came to this thread because I know a bit about both characters.

You came at me in the other thread saying that I'm a racist for using the most widely accepted term for an ethnic group in this country.

I try to carry on conversations and make jokes. And everything is so damned serious with you since you came back.


#79

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Guys. Chill pills. NAOWGH.


#80

phil

phil

All in all I'm still a little on the fence between it all. I still feel like a blast from goku might have been enough to kill him.


#81

Calleja

Calleja

phil said:
All in all I'm still a little on the fence between it all. I still feel like a blast from goku might have been enough to kill him.
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THE GUYS HAS SURVIVED MULTIPLE SUPERNOVAS!


#82

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Guys, let's be honest, if they hadn't set up rules to make the battle happen in the first place, Goku would have challenged Supes to the most epic hotdog eating contest in all of space-time itself.

....dammit.


#83

phil

phil

Calleja said:
THE GUYS HAS SURVIVED MULTIPLE SUPERNOVAS!
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Meh.


#84

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

SpecialKO said:
Guys, let's be honest, if they hadn't set up rules to make the battle happen in the first place, Goku would have challenged Supes to the most epic hotdog eating contest in all of space-time itself.

....dammit.
Click to expand...
Ok... Goku is the clear winner there.


#85

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Ravenpoe said:
Ok... Goku is the clear winner there.
Click to expand...
Hmm, now that I think about it, you're right. We'd better use pre-Crisis Supers for that one.



#86

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Yeah, pre-Crisis Superman was actually really funny with the way they'd just come up with powers. SUPER BEAN-COUNTING!


#87

Calleja

Calleja

CynicismKills said:
Yeah, pre-Crisis Superman was actually really funny with the way they'd just come up with powers. SUPER BEAN-COUNTING!
Click to expand...
He's slowly getting back to those levels, he can now see your soul and read minds and whatnot.


#88

figmentPez

figmentPez

CynicismKills said:
Yeah, pre-Crisis Superman was actually really funny with the way they'd just come up with powers. SUPER BEAN-COUNTING!
Click to expand...
Super-weaving!
1506superweaving4go.jpg


#89

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

figmentPez said:
Super-weaving!
Click to expand...
Golden-Age Supes vs Piccolo on an episode of Project Runway would be amazing.


#90

figmentPez

figmentPez

This all begs the question: Superman vs. Mr. Popo?


#91

phil

phil

Hey fig! Is there any cool goku V. Supes cosplay pictures you might have?


#92

figmentPez

figmentPez

phil said:
Hey fig! Is there any cool goku V. Supes cosplay pictures you might have?
Click to expand...
I don't know if I've seen any... If I have, I'm pretty sure I haven't saved any links.


#93

Calleja

Calleja

Did comic book writers of the Golden Age know of any punctuation besides exclamation points?


#94

figmentPez

figmentPez

Calleja said:
Did comic book writers of the Golden Age know of any punctuation besides exclamation points?
Click to expand...
Yes! Ellipses... and question marks?


#95

Covar

Covar

...well played sir!


#96

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

figmentPez said:
This all begs the question: Superman vs. Mr. Popo?
Click to expand...
If we're talking DBZ Abridged Popo, he doesn't stand a chance.

PECKING ORDER!


#97

GasBandit

GasBandit

The most illuminating thing for ME in this thread was that screwattack is still operational.


#98

Calleja

Calleja

I learned that Superman is even more overpowered than I thought.

And I knew about the phasing into invisibility/intangibility part.

I did not know about the infinite relativistic punch thing, though.


#99

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Well, what we can all take away from this is that no matter what, The Flash still wins as the most overpowered being ever.

No matter what.


#100

figmentPez

figmentPez

Am I the only one puzzled by the fact that a Green Lantern power ring is repeatedly called "the most powerful weapon" in the DC universe, but it pales in comparison to the power levels of quite a few beings? Seriously, the most advanced race in the galaxy, around since the dawn of time, and the Guardians can't make something more powerful?


#101

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

I think the highest of the high powers would have be reality altering characters:
Scarlet Witch
or anyone in control of a couple of the Infinity Gems.

I mean what's a super powered character like Goku/Superman/Flash/Green Lantern against someone who can literally will you to be a puddle of goo.


#102

Calleja

Calleja

That's... a fair fucking point, actually.


#103

@Li3n

@Li3n

Calleja said:
Superman rocks, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
Name one battle where Supes didn't win by "rallying his strength and completely dominating the other person at the end".


Gilgamesh said:
I mean what's a super powered character like Goku/Superman/Flash/Green Lantern against someone who can literally will you to be a puddle of goo.
Click to expand...
Supes would just be immune for some silly reason, just ask Darkseid.


#104

Calleja

Calleja

@Li3n said:
Name one battle where Supes didn't win by "rallying his strength and completely dominating the other person at the end".
Click to expand...
Oh wow. ThatNickGuy, you wanna take this one?


#105

@Li3n

@Li3n

Calleja said:
Oh wow. ThatNickGuy, you wanna take this one?
Click to expand...
Warning: i require pictures of the pages in question too...


#106

Frank

Frank

Man, this thread went fucking crazy.

Like all Superman vs Goku discussions. Bravo guys.


#107

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Ok, I just watched the video.

Calleja's right. They're pretty definitive, after seeing their reasoning, it seems sound to me.

That was also really entertaining. I kinda want to rewatch Dragonball now.


#108

Allen who is Quiet

Allen who is Quiet

North_Ranger said:
Guys. Chill pills. NAOWGH.
Click to expand...
That is not how you spell the English word "now".


#109

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Gilgamesh said:
I think the highest of the high powers would have be reality altering characters:
Scarlet Witch
or anyone in control of a couple of the Infinity Gems.

I mean what's a super powered character like Goku/Superman/Flash/Green Lantern against someone who can literally will you to be a puddle of goo.
Click to expand...
But that's the thing, before you can even utter the words "you don't exist" Flash has vibrated you into atoms, vibrated those atoms into quarks, and then vibrated those quarks so fast they exploded. The man wears a suit made out of goes fast, and can run back in time to push your mom down the stairs when she's pregnant with you. If he's not been hobbled in some way by a writer, he's seriously Superman-caliber powerful. He doesn't need super-strength when he can dick-punch a villain billions of times in a second.


#110

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

@Li3n said:
Supes would just be immune for some silly reason, just ask Darkseid.
Click to expand...
CynicismKills said:
But that's the thing, before you can even utter the words "you don't exist" Flash has vibrated you into atoms, vibrated those atoms into quarks, and then vibrated those quarks so fast they exploded. The man wears a suit made out of goes fast, and can run back in time to push your mom down the stairs when she's pregnant with you. If he's not been hobbled in some way by a writer, he's seriously Superman-caliber powerful. He doesn't need super-strength when he can dick-punch a villain billions of times in a second.
Click to expand...
They don't have to say anything, they simply think it and it is. Darkseid has to actually do something for his beam to have an affect (hit the target etc).


#111

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

@Li3n said:
Name one battle where Supes didn't win by "rallying his strength and completely dominating the other person at the end".
Click to expand...
Several times in All Star Superman:
-Outlasting a super-powered Lex and using his smarts until the powers ran out.
-Answering a riddle by the Sphinx to save Lois.
-Escaping the Bizarro planet without his powers, but rather using his ingenuity.

Honestly, most of Superman's stories aren't so much rallying his strength and winning, but about how he overcomes the villain through ingenuity. The best stories, anyway. Similar in some ways to some of the better Spider-Man stories, too. Or superhero comics in general. It's not like Dragonball Z where it's dominating the other person at the end, but overcoming hardships. You look at What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and The American Way (adapted into Superman vs. The Elite) and yeah, he suddenly cut loose on his powers, but it wasn't about just beating them, but proving a point about abuse of powers to The Elite, the public, and even to himself.[DOUBLEPOST=1357955243][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, as far as Superman vs. Popo? Look, I'm the biggest Superman fan around, but Popo is one scary motherfucker.


#112

bhamv3

bhamv3

CynicismKills said:
dick-punch a villain billions of times in a second.
Click to expand...
Is... is that an euphemism for something?


#113

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

bhamv3 said:
Is... is that an euphemism for something?
Click to expand...
More of a crude way of saying you're punched into a pulp before you have a chance to think "oh God I'm being punched into a pulp."


#114

Calleja

Calleja

CynicismKills said:
More of a crude way of saying you're punched into a pulp before you have a chance to think "oh God I'm being punched into a pulp."
Click to expand...
Literally, since the dude's faster than your synapses. You wouldn't feel a thing and you'd be broken already.

I think Flash is like Iceman. They started off mid-level until someone fucking realized what having those powers actually means. Iceman is Omega level now, right? As he should be if he can be LIVING ICE.


#115

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Calleja said:
Literally, since the dude's faster than your synapses. You wouldn't feel a thing and you'd be broken already.

I think Flash is like Iceman. They started off mid-level until someone fucking realized what having those powers actually means. Iceman is Omega level now, right? As he should be if he can be LIVING ICE.
Click to expand...
I dunno. I know he's got that weird ice goblin look going now, and past Iceman keeps trying to ask him why he looks like that now when they meet. I haven't kept up on him though, so I dunno what's going on.


#116

Shakey

Shakey

Meh, if it came down to it writers would come up with a way for either to win if they needed. The glory of fictional characters! There's always a way, otherwise there would be no fantasy.


#117

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

I agree on the outcome of this fight , but I'm still on the fence on the whole "ki not magic" thing. What defines magic? Why is it that Black Adams energy bolts hurt Kal-El but not Goku's ki-blasts? Is ki merely bio-electricity? Because from the spiritual context from Dragon Ball you'd think that would be translated as magical energy BUT NO! Still, even with this it wouldn't have changed the fight outcome much, Supes can lift a butt-load of megatons.


#118

Calleja

Calleja

Yoshimickster said:
I agree on the outcome of this fight , but I'm still on the fence on the whole "ki not magic" thing. What defines magic? Why is it that Black Adams energy bolts hurt Kal-El but not Goku's ki-blasts? Is ki merely bio-electricity? Because from the spiritual context from Dragon Ball you'd think that would be translated as magical energy BUT NO! Still, even with this it wouldn't have changed the fight outcome much, Supes can lift a butt-load of megatons.
Click to expand...
They used the rules from Dragon Ball itself, Goku has faced beings that use actual magic and it's not energy they get from inside, like ki is, they use other means like amulets and spells and whatnot. He does have a magic weapon, that growing stick thing, which does hurt Superman more than usual. (but it's still a stick)


#119

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Fleh, I can see that. Still confused on the subject of magic though, and I always shall be.


#120

Bowielee

Bowielee

Calleja said:
Literally, since the dude's faster than your synapses. You wouldn't feel a thing and you'd be broken already.

I think Flash is like Iceman. They started off mid-level until someone fucking realized what having those powers actually means. Iceman is Omega level now, right? As he should be if he can be LIVING ICE.
Click to expand...
He's getting more powerful. He had 2 major power spikes. The first was when Collosus' brother used his powers on him, that's when he learned that he could turn completely into ice, rather than just encasing himself in it. The second was when Emma Frost took over his body and was able to do crazy stuff, like make duplicates of herself and travel thousands of miles through water. Bobby was still largely limiting himself due to mental blocks due to his personal insecurities. Emma basically not having any insecurities at all allowed her to use his power in ways that he never even imagined. She has trained him to overcome this somewhat, particularly when he was mortally wounded in his ice form and was afraid to turn back into human because he was afraid he may still have a huge hole in his chest when he turned human again.

Basically, he's near omega power. It's indicated that if he really let himself loose he could have just as much mastery over water and ice as Magneto does over the magnetic field. And on a planet that is mostly water, that makes him pretty damn powerful.

As to the Superman Goku thing, the thing in the video that would have allowed Goku defeat Superman was covered. If Goku were willing to let Superman be weakened by the kryptonite, Supes would be finished, but Goku's sense of honor works against him there.

Also, Superman taking Supernovas to the face really shouldn't be surprising seeing as he's basically a solar battery and a supernova would just supercharge him, rather than hurt him.


#121

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Wow, I really want to read some more current Iceman stuff now, that sounds cool (hah).

Also, they did similar with him in the Earth X series. The planet was covered in a gas that turned everyone into a mutant, and some who were already mutants were altered even further. Iceman could no longer survive in warm climates permanently and had to move himself to the far northern reaches of Canada or something like that.


#122

Calleja

Calleja

Also, couldn't he at some become pretty much living water vapor? A fucking living gas?

Or was that just what Emma Frost could do?

But yeah, my point was that the original powers of Flash and Iceman were thought up pretty simply "oh, he's really really fast" and "this guys FREEZES stuff!". But then people started putting more thought into it and realized that, hey, being FASTER THAN LIGHT is fucking INSANELY POWERFUL and CONTROLLING WATER and BECOMING LIVING WATER means you're pretty much beyond physical form and .. y'know.. fucking what living thing isn't mostly water anyway? Iceman hasn't tapped into THAT bit.


#123

Bowielee

Bowielee

Emma was able to basically freeze a river and instantaneously appear at the other end of the river, because bobby's conciousness is pretty much in all the ice that he controls. He can currently do a multiple man thing where he can simultaneously control multiple constructs at once.
2442458-beast_vs_iceman_wolverine_the_x_men_12.jpg


Pic from Xmen vs Avengers


#124

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

With the speed force you also have to think of the abilities that one would logically entail such as his super powered metabolism and healing factor. Because for someone going at super fast speeds with all manner of stuff hitting them, they'd need to heal right quick. Also apparently the speed-force can negate the anti-life equation...some how. I don't get either Plank.

And yeah Ice Man is crazy powerful. Can freeze anything, and can become any form of moisture. Whats if he ends up being able to alter and become other elements as well? Because that would be pretty fucking awesome.


#125

Bowielee

Bowielee

He's still pretty much restricted to Ice, but the logical extension would be mastery over water as well. When Mikail(sp?) used his powers on Iceman, he basically turned him to water and Bobby was able to recover from that.


#126

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

What I find weird is that with his potential to be the greatest mutant warrior who has ever lived, you'd think there would be more stories about him going crazy and conquering the world. America needs its evil Ice Man! Hopefully written by someone Brittish and crazy!


#127

Bowielee

Bowielee

He was pretty badass in Age of Apocolypse. Though he was still an X-man in that universe.


#128

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

It's like when they decided Jubilee's fireworks were actually small nuclear explosions or some nonsense, which made her go from mostly useless to crazy powerful.

Then she lost her powers and turned into a vampire.


#129

Bowielee

Bowielee

CynicismKills said:
It's like when they decided Jubilee's fireworks were actually small nuclear explosions or some nonsense, which made her go from mostly useless to crazy powerful.

Then she lost her powers and turned into a vampire.
Click to expand...
Ugh, poor Jubilee. I hate what they've done to her. But, yes, she was WAY more powerful than she allowed herself to be. It's a running theme with many mutants because with so many of them, their manifestation of their powers often have fatal or near fatal consequences for those around the mutant.

Also, making that last post made me realize something. Even though I still follow the X-men for the most part, the last time the comic was really excellent was Age of Apocolypse. And that makes me sad.


#130

Calleja

Calleja

What I'm still waiting for some writer to realize is that mastery over water means mastery over, well, most of what humans, and mutants, are made of. Remember how Magneto could pretty much control Logan like a puppet cause of the Adamantium bones? Well... Iceman could do that with EVERY LIVING THING


Think about it.


#131

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Calleja said:
What I'm still waiting for some writer to realize is that mastery over water means mastery over, well, most of what humans, and mutants, are made of. Remember how Magneto could pretty much control Logan like a puppet cause of the Adamantium bones? Well... Iceman could do that with EVERY LIVING THING


Think about it.
Click to expand...
Yeah like a fucking blood-bender! TAKE THAT REPUBLIC CITY!

Speaking of the opposite of improving their powers-CYCLOPS! Over 40 years, and he still needs his visor to use his powers even though its been stated the only reason he still needs it is because has a psychological dependency to it. If Iceman can learn to change his physical mollecular structure and manipulate moisture, I think Cyclops can master something as simple as opening as closing a portal to an einsteinium universe that he can only open when he opens his eye-lids. Most. Specific. Mutation. EVER! Okay maybe not the MOST specific, but still.


#132

Bowielee

Bowielee

Yoshimickster said:
Yeah like a fucking blood-bender! TAKE THAT REPUBLIC CITY!

Speaking of the opposite of improving their powers-CYCLOPS! Over 40 years, and he still needs his visor to use his powers even though its been stated the only reason he still needs it is because has a psychological dependency to it. If Iceman can learn to change his physical mollecular structure and manipulate moisture, I think Cyclops can master something as simple as opening as closing a portal to an einsteinium universe that he can only open when he opens his eye-lids. Most. Specific. Mutation. EVER! Okay maybe not the MOST specific, but still.
Click to expand...
He needs it due to a head injury sustained when he jumped out of the plane with his brother when they were children. During AvX, when he was possessed by the Phoenix force, he said that he was wearing it even though he didn't need it, but normally, he doesn't have physical control over his eye beams at all due to the injury.

Fun fact for those who don't follow the X-men or Avengers anymore. Did you know that Collosus is now the host for the Crimson Gem of Cytorrak? In other words:
"I'm the Juggernaut, Commrade"


#133

Calleja

Calleja

WAIT WHAT!?!?!

....WHAT!?!?



Wait...


WAHT!?!?





#134

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

The couple times Cyclops really let his beams loose, it's awesome. Also one of the billion times he and Logan fought, Scott keeps pushing Logan back hundreds of yards with his beams while Logan keeps charging and charging.[DOUBLEPOST=1357977776][/DOUBLEPOST]And yeah, Colossus is the Juggernaut. He doesn't like using the power, though.


#135

Calleja

Calleja

What happened to the... other Juggernaut.. guy? Wasn't he related to Xavier or something?


#136

Bowielee

Bowielee

It all happened during the Fear Itself event, one which no one paid attention to. Including me. It happened between Siege and AvX.

His name was Cain Marko and he's Xavier's step-brother. I think he's in some alternate timeline or something now.


#137

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Fear Itself was weird. Red Skull's daughter gets some kind of nega-Mjolnir and becomes crazy powerful. She kills Bucky Cap and her master, who's name I forget (he calls himself Odin's brother) sends more hammers to Earth. A bunch of random heroes/villains get them and fall under this guy's sway. It was Juggernaut, Hulk, Thing, Grey Gargoyle, Titania (I think?) and whoever her husband is, some other villain (one of The Wreckers, I think). Turns out one of the Reed kids can separate people from the hammer's influence, though. There's some decent fights in it, especially Thor v Thing and then Hulk. Stark sacrifices his sobriety to Odin to get an audience and use Odin's forge to build super-weapons for the heroes to fight against these things. That's all that I can really remember, it was alright but like Civil War spanned over so many titles I couldn't keep up and lost interest.


#138

Bowielee

Bowielee

I think Titania is romantically involved with the Absorbing Man, if i recall secret wars correctly.


#139

phil

phil

CynicismKills said:
Fear Itself was weird. Red Skull's daughter gets some kind of nega-Mjolnir and becomes crazy powerful. She kills Bucky Cap and her master, who's name I forget (he calls himself Odin's brother) sends more hammers to Earth. A bunch of random heroes/villains get them and fall under this guy's sway. It was Juggernaut, Hulk, Thing, Grey Gargoyle, Titania (I think?) and whoever her husband is, some other villain (one of The Wreckers, I think). Turns out one of the Reed kids can separate people from the hammer's influence, though. There's some decent fights in it, especially Thor v Thing and then Hulk. Stark sacrifices his sobriety to Odin to get an audience and use Odin's forge to build super-weapons for the heroes to fight against these things. That's all that I can really remember, it was alright but like Civil War spanned over so many titles I couldn't keep up and lost interest.
Click to expand...
I was reading some of the wikipedia about it the other day. Steve Rodgers becomes Cap again, his shield breaks, and Deadpool pulls shenanigans which actually sounds interesting because that was written by the guy who does Doctor Mcninja.


#140

Calleja

Calleja

What if I want to read a really good Thor book or arc or story or mini, what would you guys recommend?


#141

Bowielee

Bowielee

The Ragnarok storyline was pretty awesome, where he ends the cycle but I can't remember if there are any TPB of those or not. Also Thor Visionaries: Walter Simonson is a good read for classic Thor (this is when I read it the most). I also enjoyed the return of Thor and the lead in to Siege, where he's restoring the rest of the Asgardians after the events of Ragnarok.


#142

Calleja

Calleja

Thanls browielee, I'll look for those.


#143

Bowielee

Bowielee

Pretty much anything with Walt Simonson is going to be the definitive version of Thor.

I also can't remember if in the main Marvel universe if the whole "Asgardians are really just super technologically advanced aliens" thing. I'm pretty sure they're still actual gods in the main universe. I do know that them being advanced aliens was a major plot point of the Earth X series, but that's not really cannon.


#144

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

The current run of Thor is great also. The art is fantastic, and the basic idea is this God-killer that's been haunting Thor since he ran into it centuries prior to the present, when it left him for dead. It deals with his run-in in the past, his hunt for it in the present, and his final stand against it and its minions in the future.

Also yeah, there's a couple Deadpool things I want to check out. The Dr. McNinja guy's stuff, and Brian Posehn wrote a few issues too.


#145

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

CynicismKills said:
Also one of the billion times he and Logan fought, Scott keeps pushing Logan back hundreds of yards with his beams while Logan keeps charging and charging.
Click to expand...
...this sounds questionable. Was Logan in "bell-ring" berzerker mode? Because I'd think he would have snuck up on him or something, being a hundred year old martial arts master and soldier and what not. Just saying.

And Bowielee I've read that he's healed from his accident, but uses the visor due to a psychosomatic need for it. So if he were to break this mental barrier, he would only need his visor for style instead of a mental crutch.

Also while were on the subject of Cyclops...what is up with the bird on his new costume? Is it symbolic for the Phoenix force? Cos if not, I don't really get what it means.

And Colossus is Juggernaut now? Weird.


#146

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

It escalated from one of Logan and his regular arguments over something. One provoked the other, and it went from there. This was a couple years ago, I think, before Cyclops went all Mutant Nationalist.


#147

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

CynicismKills said:
It escalated from one of Logan and his regular arguments over something. One provoked the other, and it went from there. This was a couple years ago, I think, before Cyclops went all Mutant Nationalist.
Click to expand...
http://www.the-gutters.com/comic/141-guy-allen


#148

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Yoshimickster said:
...this sounds questionable. Was Logan in "bell-ring" berzerker mode? Because I'd think he would have snuck up on him or something, being a hundred year old martial arts master and soldier and what not. Just saying.

And Bowielee I've read that he's healed from his accident, but uses the visor due to a psychosomatic need for it. So if he were to break this mental barrier, he would only need his visor for style instead of a mental crutch.

Also while were on the subject of Cyclops...what is up with the bird on his new costume? Is it symbolic for the Phoenix force? Cos if not, I don't really get what it means.

And Colossus is Juggernaut now? Weird.
Click to expand...

Re: Cyclops, it's really simple as to why he can't get over that particular mental block. Without the visor, why the fuck would anyone call him cyclops?

It's iconic to his image, they can't change it.


#149

Bowielee

Bowielee

Yoshimickster said:
...this sounds questionable. Was Logan in "bell-ring" berzerker mode? Because I'd think he would have snuck up on him or something, being a hundred year old martial arts master and soldier and what not. Just saying.

And Bowielee I've read that he's healed from his accident, but uses the visor due to a psychosomatic need for it. So if he were to break this mental barrier, he would only need his visor for style instead of a mental crutch.

Also while were on the subject of Cyclops...what is up with the bird on his new costume? Is it symbolic for the Phoenix force? Cos if not, I don't really get what it means.

And Colossus is Juggernaut now? Weird.
Click to expand...
I'd have to ask, then why would Emma Frost not just fix that mental issue for him? I'd imagine she would do it with or without his permission.

As for the new costume, he was possessed by the Phoenix force along with Emma Frost, Collossus, Namor (Why the hell is he an Xman again? He's BARELY a muntant as most of his powers come from his Atlantean physiology), and Magik during the AvX event.


#150

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Bowielee said:
I'd have to ask, then why would Emma Frost not just fix that mental issue for him? I'd imagine she would do it with or without his permission.

As for the new costume, he was possessed by the Phoenix force along with Emma Frost, Collossus, Namor (Why the hell is he an Xman again? He's BARELY a muntant as most of his powers come from his Atlantean physiology), and Magik during the AvX event.
Click to expand...
I think Emma actually did something like that once. Helped him hold the beams in temporarily so he could see the world without his visor/shades. Or maybe it was a vision she gave him in his head. It's been awhile.


#151

phil

phil

I think main reason I feel this still hasn't finally been settled is because Epic rap battles of history hasn't chimed in.


#152

Bowielee

Bowielee

CynicismKills said:
I think Emma actually did something like that once. Helped him hold the beams in temporarily so he could see the world without his visor/shades. Or maybe it was a vision she gave him in his head. It's been awhile.
Click to expand...
Jean Gray did once during the dark phoenix saga.


#153

fade

fade

Everyone has some kind of mental block against their full power in the comics.


#154

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

One of only hero I know who was able to get over his mental block was Animal Man, course that was only after taking Peyote. So logically all Marvel/DC Super Heroes need to get high off their asses! Make a big ass event out of it "Crisis on infinite dime-bags"! Especially since the idea of Superman getting high is extremely funny to me for some reason.


#155

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Yoshimickster said:
One of only hero I know who was able to get over his mental block was Animal Man, course that was only after taking Peyote. So logically all Marvel/DC Super Heroes need to get high off their asses! Make a big ass event out of it "Crisis on infinite dime-bags"! Especially since the idea of Superman getting high is extremely funny to me for some reason.
Click to expand...


#156

@Li3n

@Li3n

ThatNickGuy said:
Several times in All Star Superman:
-Outlasting a super-powered Lex and using his smarts until the powers ran out.
-Answering a riddle by the Sphinx to save Lois.
-Escaping the Bizarro planet without his powers, but rather using his ingenuity.
Click to expand...
Wow, i was expecting some examples, seeing how he's been around since the 1930's, but all from the same book...

ThatNickGuy said:
Honestly, most of Superman's stories aren't so much rallying his strength and winning, but about how he overcomes the villain through ingenuity. The best stories, anyway. Similar in some ways to some of the better Spider-Man stories, too. Or superhero comics in general. It's not like Dragonball Z where it's dominating the other person at the end, but overcoming hardships. You look at What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and The American Way (adapted into Superman vs. The Elite) and yeah, he suddenly cut loose on his powers, but it wasn't about just beating them, but proving a point about abuse of powers to The Elite, the public, and even to himself.
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I read that the comic did it better by having the League help him take them down...

Point is that the real problem with Supes is that most people make him into a Mary Sue...

Just look at the parts of the video where they talk about his powers... "he wasn't able to breathe in space because of mental blocks, but then got over them"... yeah, they tried to give him some limitations after Crisis, but that didn't last long and the power creep started in earnest again.


#157

Bowielee

Bowielee

There was a really interesting trade that I used to have where the Silver Banshee somehow swaped the tempraments of Superman and Batman. It focused on the main thing that they have in common besides being super-heroes, which is that technically, they are both orphans. Superman started seeing the destruction of his homeworld and loss of his parents in terms of revenge and Batman started seeing the death of his parents as an opportunity to make the world a better place. It all tied into some ancient gaelic spirit and a deal with Blaze of some sort, but it was interesting to see how badly things can turn out if Superman DOESN'T adopt a Mary Sue attitude. If he lets himself react in the same way as a normal person would, the path eventually leads to villainy because the human failings that we all have combined with that much power eventually lead down dark paths.

I'm probably not explaining this right at all, but it was a great story.


#158

@Li3n

@Li3n

Bowielee said:
There was a really interesting trade that I used to have where the Silver Banshee somehow swaped the tempraments of Superman and Batman. It focused on the main thing that they have in common besides being super-heroes, which is that technically, they are both orphans. Superman started seeing the destruction of his homeworld and loss of his parents in terms of revenge and Batman started seeing the death of his parents as an opportunity to make the world a better place. It all tied into some ancient gaelic spirit and a deal with Blaze of some sort, but it was interesting to see how badly things can turn out if Superman DOESN'T adopt a Mary Sue attitude. If he lets himself react in the same way as a normal person would, the path eventually leads to villainy because the human failings that we all have combined with that much power eventually lead down dark paths.
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It wasn't his attitude i had a problem with... it's his actually being one in most stories is what's annoying...


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