The Ultimate Nerd Debate: Solved. Superman vs Goku, the definitive battle to the death
- Thread starter Calleja
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That is not how you spell the English word "now".
But that's the thing, before you can even utter the words "you don't exist" Flash has vibrated you into atoms, vibrated those atoms into quarks, and then vibrated those quarks so fast they exploded. The man wears a suit made out of goes fast, and can run back in time to push your mom down the stairs when she's pregnant with you. If he's not been hobbled in some way by a writer, he's seriously Superman-caliber powerful. He doesn't need super-strength when he can dick-punch a villain billions of times in a second.
They don't have to say anything, they simply think it and it is. Darkseid has to actually do something for his beam to have an affect (hit the target etc).
Several times in All Star Superman:
-Outlasting a super-powered Lex and using his smarts until the powers ran out.
-Answering a riddle by the Sphinx to save Lois.
-Escaping the Bizarro planet without his powers, but rather using his ingenuity.
Honestly, most of Superman's stories aren't so much rallying his strength and winning, but about how he overcomes the villain through ingenuity. The best stories, anyway. Similar in some ways to some of the better Spider-Man stories, too. Or superhero comics in general. It's not like Dragonball Z where it's dominating the other person at the end, but overcoming hardships. You look at What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and The American Way (adapted into Superman vs. The Elite) and yeah, he suddenly cut loose on his powers, but it wasn't about just beating them, but proving a point about abuse of powers to The Elite, the public, and even to himself.[DOUBLEPOST=1357955243][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, as far as Superman vs. Popo? Look, I'm the biggest Superman fan around, but Popo is one scary motherfucker.
Is... is that an euphemism for something?
More of a crude way of saying you're punched into a pulp before you have a chance to think "oh God I'm being punched into a pulp."
Literally, since the dude's faster than your synapses. You wouldn't feel a thing and you'd be broken already.
I think Flash is like Iceman. They started off mid-level until someone fucking realized what having those powers actually means. Iceman is Omega level now, right? As he should be if he can be LIVING ICE.
I dunno. I know he's got that weird ice goblin look going now, and past Iceman keeps trying to ask him why he looks like that now when they meet. I haven't kept up on him though, so I dunno what's going on.
I agree on the outcome of this fight , but I'm still on the fence on the whole "ki not magic" thing. What defines magic? Why is it that Black Adams energy bolts hurt Kal-El but not Goku's ki-blasts? Is ki merely bio-electricity? Because from the spiritual context from Dragon Ball you'd think that would be translated as magical energy BUT NO! Still, even with this it wouldn't have changed the fight outcome much, Supes can lift a butt-load of megatons.
They used the rules from Dragon Ball itself, Goku has faced beings that use actual magic and it's not energy they get from inside, like ki is, they use other means like amulets and spells and whatnot. He does have a magic weapon, that growing stick thing, which does hurt Superman more than usual. (but it's still a stick)
Fleh, I can see that. Still confused on the subject of magic though, and I always shall be.
He's getting more powerful. He had 2 major power spikes. The first was when Collosus' brother used his powers on him, that's when he learned that he could turn completely into ice, rather than just encasing himself in it. The second was when Emma Frost took over his body and was able to do crazy stuff, like make duplicates of herself and travel thousands of miles through water. Bobby was still largely limiting himself due to mental blocks due to his personal insecurities. Emma basically not having any insecurities at all allowed her to use his power in ways that he never even imagined. She has trained him to overcome this somewhat, particularly when he was mortally wounded in his ice form and was afraid to turn back into human because he was afraid he may still have a huge hole in his chest when he turned human again.
Basically, he's near omega power. It's indicated that if he really let himself loose he could have just as much mastery over water and ice as Magneto does over the magnetic field. And on a planet that is mostly water, that makes him pretty damn powerful.
As to the Superman Goku thing, the thing in the video that would have allowed Goku defeat Superman was covered. If Goku were willing to let Superman be weakened by the kryptonite, Supes would be finished, but Goku's sense of honor works against him there.
Also, Superman taking Supernovas to the face really shouldn't be surprising seeing as he's basically a solar battery and a supernova would just supercharge him, rather than hurt him.
Wow, I really want to read some more current Iceman stuff now, that sounds cool (hah).
Also, they did similar with him in the Earth X series. The planet was covered in a gas that turned everyone into a mutant, and some who were already mutants were altered even further. Iceman could no longer survive in warm climates permanently and had to move himself to the far northern reaches of Canada or something like that.
Also, they did similar with him in the Earth X series. The planet was covered in a gas that turned everyone into a mutant, and some who were already mutants were altered even further. Iceman could no longer survive in warm climates permanently and had to move himself to the far northern reaches of Canada or something like that.
Also, couldn't he at some become pretty much living water vapor? A fucking living gas?
Or was that just what Emma Frost could do?
But yeah, my point was that the original powers of Flash and Iceman were thought up pretty simply "oh, he's really really fast" and "this guys FREEZES stuff!". But then people started putting more thought into it and realized that, hey, being FASTER THAN LIGHT is fucking INSANELY POWERFUL and CONTROLLING WATER and BECOMING LIVING WATER means you're pretty much beyond physical form and .. y'know.. fucking what living thing isn't mostly water anyway? Iceman hasn't tapped into THAT bit.
Or was that just what Emma Frost could do?
But yeah, my point was that the original powers of Flash and Iceman were thought up pretty simply "oh, he's really really fast" and "this guys FREEZES stuff!". But then people started putting more thought into it and realized that, hey, being FASTER THAN LIGHT is fucking INSANELY POWERFUL and CONTROLLING WATER and BECOMING LIVING WATER means you're pretty much beyond physical form and .. y'know.. fucking what living thing isn't mostly water anyway? Iceman hasn't tapped into THAT bit.
Emma was able to basically freeze a river and instantaneously appear at the other end of the river, because bobby's conciousness is pretty much in all the ice that he controls. He can currently do a multiple man thing where he can simultaneously control multiple constructs at once.
Pic from Xmen vs Avengers
Pic from Xmen vs Avengers
With the speed force you also have to think of the abilities that one would logically entail such as his super powered metabolism and healing factor. Because for someone going at super fast speeds with all manner of stuff hitting them, they'd need to heal right quick. Also apparently the speed-force can negate the anti-life equation...some how. I don't get either Plank.
And yeah Ice Man is crazy powerful. Can freeze anything, and can become any form of moisture. Whats if he ends up being able to alter and become other elements as well? Because that would be pretty fucking awesome.
And yeah Ice Man is crazy powerful. Can freeze anything, and can become any form of moisture. Whats if he ends up being able to alter and become other elements as well? Because that would be pretty fucking awesome.
What I find weird is that with his potential to be the greatest mutant warrior who has ever lived, you'd think there would be more stories about him going crazy and conquering the world. America needs its evil Ice Man! Hopefully written by someone Brittish and crazy!
It's like when they decided Jubilee's fireworks were actually small nuclear explosions or some nonsense, which made her go from mostly useless to crazy powerful.
Then she lost her powers and turned into a vampire.
Then she lost her powers and turned into a vampire.
Ugh, poor Jubilee. I hate what they've done to her. But, yes, she was WAY more powerful than she allowed herself to be. It's a running theme with many mutants because with so many of them, their manifestation of their powers often have fatal or near fatal consequences for those around the mutant.
Also, making that last post made me realize something. Even though I still follow the X-men for the most part, the last time the comic was really excellent was Age of Apocolypse. And that makes me sad.
What I'm still waiting for some writer to realize is that mastery over water means mastery over, well, most of what humans, and mutants, are made of. Remember how Magneto could pretty much control Logan like a puppet cause of the Adamantium bones? Well... Iceman could do that with EVERY LIVING THING
Think about it.
Think about it.
Yeah like a fucking blood-bender! TAKE THAT REPUBLIC CITY!
Speaking of the opposite of improving their powers-CYCLOPS! Over 40 years, and he still needs his visor to use his powers even though its been stated the only reason he still needs it is because has a psychological dependency to it. If Iceman can learn to change his physical mollecular structure and manipulate moisture, I think Cyclops can master something as simple as opening as closing a portal to an einsteinium universe that he can only open when he opens his eye-lids. Most. Specific. Mutation. EVER! Okay maybe not the MOST specific, but still.
He needs it due to a head injury sustained when he jumped out of the plane with his brother when they were children. During AvX, when he was possessed by the Phoenix force, he said that he was wearing it even though he didn't need it, but normally, he doesn't have physical control over his eye beams at all due to the injury.
Fun fact for those who don't follow the X-men or Avengers anymore. Did you know that Collosus is now the host for the Crimson Gem of Cytorrak? In other words:
"I'm the Juggernaut, Commrade"
The couple times Cyclops really let his beams loose, it's awesome. Also one of the billion times he and Logan fought, Scott keeps pushing Logan back hundreds of yards with his beams while Logan keeps charging and charging.[DOUBLEPOST=1357977776][/DOUBLEPOST]And yeah, Colossus is the Juggernaut. He doesn't like using the power, though.
Fear Itself was weird. Red Skull's daughter gets some kind of nega-Mjolnir and becomes crazy powerful. She kills Bucky Cap and her master, who's name I forget (he calls himself Odin's brother) sends more hammers to Earth. A bunch of random heroes/villains get them and fall under this guy's sway. It was Juggernaut, Hulk, Thing, Grey Gargoyle, Titania (I think?) and whoever her husband is, some other villain (one of The Wreckers, I think). Turns out one of the Reed kids can separate people from the hammer's influence, though. There's some decent fights in it, especially Thor v Thing and then Hulk. Stark sacrifices his sobriety to Odin to get an audience and use Odin's forge to build super-weapons for the heroes to fight against these things. That's all that I can really remember, it was alright but like Civil War spanned over so many titles I couldn't keep up and lost interest.
I was reading some of the wikipedia about it the other day. Steve Rodgers becomes Cap again, his shield breaks, and Deadpool pulls shenanigans which actually sounds interesting because that was written by the guy who does Doctor Mcninja.
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