There are three things involved. Here is a quick list. I couldn't really make it any smaller.Can someone explain to me in like 2 or 3 sentences what the fuck is going on? I feel like this whole fiasco isn't worth taking more time than that to research.
Female indie Dev with "1 game" to her credit is well known in the gaming industry for being a rarity. Was recently caught cheating on long term boyfriend with several men, amongst which are a few gaming journalists who've covered her and her game at various degrees. This brings out the conspiracy theorists of douchbaggery going on in the game journalists universe as well as giving her a hard time for being... well a slut. Social justice warriors come out, feminists and all that. Twitter chaos. Internet chaos. People do a long history look at the girl and find out she does all kinds of things to stay alive, including smut pics on a pay per view website. Find more conspiracies. Suddenly game journalism back her on most sites on THE SAME DAY. More conspiracy. Rise, repeat.Can someone explain to me in like 2 or 3 sentences what the fuck is going on? I feel like this whole fiasco isn't worth taking more time than that to research.
A cheated-on Ex's blog posts about how his "indie game developer" girlfriend cheated on him with 5 members of the gaming journalism and game development communities became the loose thread that, when tugged, unraveled to expose even further how incestuous and self-promoting the indie gaming journalism/development world is.Can someone explain to me in like 2 or 3 sentences what the fuck is going on? I feel like this whole fiasco isn't worth taking more time than that to research.
She's also a terrible person and various previous event come to light including one where she personally killed off an event where people were trying to get some type of thing going for women dev makers to get into to get their game published and made. For apparently... "women would get exploited". but I feel otherwise.
It should be noted that the group running the event in question don't think she had the malicious intent being ascribed to her, see their statement here. Relevant quotes:Undisclosed conflicts of interest abound, manufactured professional victimhood for profit is the order of the day, the central characters in the story leverage their connections and notoriety to stomp out competing organizations that promote the same causes they purport to (women in gaming, etc),
Regarding our grievances with Zoe Quinn, an associate of hers, posted my Facebook information. Zoe did not add any information to the post, nor did she post my phone number or email. The subsequent death threat I received via email was not orchestrated by Zoe. Nor was the DDOSing of our website or the banning of us from Twitter. She was simply the most famous voice in a choir of people that did not understand the project.
They think she didn't know what she was talking about when she criticized their event, but not that she was trying to get them shut down for her own benefit.I honestly think at the time, everything she said about the project, she thought was an appropriate way to deal what she perceived as a threat to woman in the industry. This immediate reaction is reflected in the coverage of the project.
Welcome to the internet, bro. Go on and type out your own break down, and marvel at how it, too, is not 100% unbiased. Not even the people experiencing it the most right now go into it without some form of personal confirmation bias.Those are three of the most biased overviews I've read yet
I've got charlie's version right here:Welcome to the internet, bro. Go on and type out your own break down, and marvel at how it, too, is not 100% unbiased. Not even the people experiencing it the most right now go into it without some form of personal confirmation bias.
Small people acting like douches outrages other small people.Can someone explain to me in like 2 or 3 sentences what the fuck is going on? I feel like this whole fiasco isn't worth taking more time than that to research.
This is news? I fully expected this was going on or would start the second the Quinn news broke. Everyone was calling for 4chan to ether exonerate, incriminate, or just plain go vigilante on Quinn. That they chose to make fools of EVERYONE involved is perfectly in character but ultimately irrelevant. The Journalists are pointing this out as some kind of vindication... it isn't. They are still guilty of improper business relationships, no matter what your lax standards are.Making it more confusing, apparently 4Chan went way the hell out of their way to further stir up more shit between gamers and the SJW crowd.
https://storify.com/strictmachine/gameovergate
Like it or not, for a lot of young people it's the only group they get to be part of and as someone who spent most of his childhood and teenage years excluded from his peers for one reason or another, I get why it matters. It's the same reason why a lot of people still carry around their KISS Army cards or Boy Scouts of America cards and it's just as important.I just want the ugliness in the "gamer" community to go away and to stop driving good people out of it. They're supposed to just be random things you do for fun, not an identity about other-ing and marginalizing all women.
There being a community makes sense, but I agree with Charlie; there's no reason for it to be so infused with douchebags. Part of the problem may be that while the gaming draws people who are outcast without reason, it also draws people who are outcast because no one wants to put up with their shit. From what I gather, it used to be a lot of teenagers, and yeah, there are people who are shitheads as teenagers, but they grow out of it. These ones don't, for whatever reason.Like it or not, for a lot of young people it's the only group they get to be part of and as someone who spent most of his childhood and teenage years excluded from his peers for one reason or another, I get why it matters. It's the same reason why a lot of people still carry around their KISS Army cards or Boy Scouts of America cards and it's just as important.
See, you don't get it because you were ALLOWED into those groups in school. People wanted you around. These are the kids who had no one and nothing to turn to, turning them into bitter, frightened assholes. What they are seeing now are the people who rejected/reject them in their lives (cool people, jocks, women, etc.) coming into the one place that accepted them and changing it to fit THEIR needs... and now they are scared that the only home they've ever known is going to throw them away just like everyone else did. Why do you think the gaming community rails about rehashed yearly franchises like Madden, FIFA, Call of Duty, and the like? It's not just because these are terrible games... these are terrible games being made for dewchuggers and dudebros. You know... the people the industry caters to but don't give a shit about anything else in it? These kids and maladjusted adults are seeing the industry turn it's back on the kind of stuff THEY want in order to make money off of the casual audience and it scares the crap out of them... and now they have to worry about women too?What I don't understand is the sweeping "no girls allowed" type of crap. In my groups during school, and even just as much online, guys were happy to have girls getting involved, hanging out, etc. But then I've talked to my wife who grew up in the mid-west and she said the guys in her neighborhood didn't want girls playing video games. I'm just ... what? Why would you not want girls around? Girls are great. Women are great. Having friends is great. I don't get it.
I really don't want to make this about me, but ...See, you don't get it because you were ALLOWED into those groups in school. People wanted you around.
But they've been saying that stuff since GTA got big in the late '90s. And if these guys hate Call of Duty so much, why are they the jerks one Xbox Live, shouting obscenities and racial slurs?These are the kids who had no one and nothing to turn to, turning them into bitter, frightened assholes. What they are seeing now are the people who rejected/reject them in their lives (cool people, jocks, women, etc.) coming into the one place that accepted them and changing it to fit THEIR needs... and now they are scared that the only home they've ever known is going to throw them away just like everyone else did. Why do you think the gaming community rails about rehashed yearly franchises like Madden, FIFA, Call of Duty, and the like? It's not just because these are terrible games... these are terrible games being made for dewchuggers and dudebros. You know... the people the industry caters to but don't give a shit about anything else in it? These kids and maladjusted adults are seeing the industry turn it's back on the kind of stuff THEY want in order to make money off of the casual audience and it scares the crap out of them...
Still doesn't explain this. Women can be outcasts too. People can be outcast because of their race, their gender, sexuality, religion, their hobbies, their ideas, etc. If you're an outcast, there's a wide pool of people who you can get to know and won't push you away, because they know how that feels. Something's got to be wrong before the outcast-ism sets in that says they still can't be friends with all these other kinds of people, even though they all know what each other is going through.and now they have to worry about women too?
And to make my point stronger, you're not like these guys either. So I really feel something else is at play, be it regional or in each person's personal background, or if there's some undercurrent thing that feeds this. Because they don't rally like this against the dudebros, but women? Holy shit, does that ever stir the wasp nest.This kind of thing happens in every hobbyist industry. D&D is getting a lot of shit right now for being inclusive to minorities and the LGBT community... women still get treated as unequal players in collectible card games... female heavy metal fans are generally considered to be ether groupies, girlfriends of metal fans, or sluts... I'd be willing to bet there are hobby train enthusiasts that are upset that some woman is building her models in a less than realistic fashion. This isn't limited to gaming, it happens everywhere that disaffected people come together around a passion. Hell, it's basically how skinheads, the KKK, and neo-nazis operate: find rejected youngsters, give them a home and identity, and they will cling to it like a life raft. No one wants to face the world alone.
Mind you, this is all reactionary bullshit. Gaming is for everyone, for better or worse. The great unwashed and rejected underclass of gaming aren't right to be doing this. I'm simply saying that, as someone who was rejected by his peers growing up... I get why they are doing it. It's wrong, but I get it.
See, you don't get it because you were ALLOWED into those groups in school. People wanted you around. These are the kids who had no one and nothing to turn to, turning them into bitter, frightened assholes. What they are seeing now are the people who rejected/reject them in their lives (cool people, jocks, women, etc.) coming into the one place that accepted them and changing it to fit THEIR needs... and now they are scared that the only home they've ever known is going to throw them away just like everyone else did. Why do you think the gaming community rails about rehashed yearly franchises like Madden, FIFA, Call of Duty, and the like? It's not just because these are terrible games... these are terrible games being made for dewchuggers and dudebros. You know... the people the industry caters to but don't give a shit about anything else in it? These kids and maladjusted adults are seeing the industry turn it's back on the kind of stuff THEY want in order to make money off of the casual audience and it scares the crap out of them... and now they have to worry about women too?
This kind of thing happens in every hobbyist industry. D&D is getting a lot of shit right now for being inclusive to minorities and the LGBT community... women still get treated as unequal players in collectible card games... female heavy metal fans are generally considered to be ether groupies, girlfriends of metal fans, or sluts... I'd be willing to bet there are hobby train enthusiasts that are upset that some woman is building her models in a less than realistic fashion. This isn't limited to gaming, it happens everywhere that disaffected people come together around a passion. Hell, it's basically how skinheads, the KKK, and neo-nazis operate: find rejected youngsters, give them a home and identity, and they will cling to it like a life raft. No one wants to face the world alone.
Mind you, this is all reactionary bullshit. Gaming is for everyone, for better or worse. The great unwashed and rejected underclass of gaming aren't right to be doing this. I'm simply saying that, as someone who was rejected by his peers growing up... I get why they are doing it. It's wrong, but I get it.
Have you been to a metal concert? People there may look scary, but typically respect the hell out of women. You don't see this "lol sluts whores whores rape" Frank Miller shit.female heavy metal fans are generally considered to be ether groupies, girlfriends of metal fans, or sluts...
Could you share your sources for this statement please.D&D is getting a lot of shit right now for being inclusive to minorities and the LGBT community...
I don't have links offhand, but I've seen comments pulled from Twitter and somewhere else. Bunch of rejects are pissed that the Human page in the new books is a black woman. I don't know if there are other things they're pissed about, but I presume they're a minority in the D&D community. At the very least, I can verify that this has occurred from my own observation.Could you share your sources for this statement please.
Nah man... it was out of line to say it like I did and you didn't deserve it. And no, I don't think I'd ever seen that post, sorry.I really don't want to make this about me, but ...
This is before reading the rest of your post. I think I posted about this before, but I don't blame you for not remembering. People didn't want me around; I stuck around anyway and pretended to have friends, and my brain interpreted abuse as affectionate teasing. But I still watched how they interacted and learned about them, hence my girl observation. I'm gonna cut it there; I just wanted to correct this.
I didn't turn out like these guys.
For the sake of the discussion, I'll assume that based on how I am now, having not been a teenager for 9 years and having grown-up and had friends for a long time now, I have Friend Privilege and am ignorant to the situation of a lot of other people.
It's probably more than fair to call that 40% dudebros that do it for kicks/40% gamers abusing their anonymity/20% who actually hate gay people. But as for why it's still going on... it's because they are an easy target. It's easy to look at the self interested dewchugger and proclaim him and everything he does is what is wrong with the industry (and it IS part of the problem) but it's done because the alternative is to examine what is actually wrong with the industry right now (it's toxic members) and deciding what should or even can be done about it. Dudebros are the dragon ravaging the countryside... toxic gamers are the advisers telling you that the dragon is the problem while they rob the kingdom blind. You can fight the dragon, but it's hard to keep your house in order.But they've been saying that stuff since GTA got big in the late '90s. And if these guys hate Call of Duty so much, why are they the jerks one Xbox Live, shouting obscenities and racial slurs?
Some people react to pain by gaining empathy. Some people react to it by isolating themselves. Others lash out at anyone and everything that gets near. It's not hard to see which people are the ones causing the problem right now.Still doesn't explain this. Women can be outcasts too. People can be outcast because of their race, their gender, sexuality, religion, their hobbies, their ideas, etc. If you're an outcast, there's a wide pool of people who you can get to know and won't push you away, because they know how that feels. Something's got to be wrong before the outcast-ism sets in that says they still can't be friends with all these other kinds of people, even though they all know what each other is going through.
I've had 24 years of drugs and therapy, 2 suicide attempts, and almost a 5 years of self reflection since I've been off the medication and out of therapy. I'm not like them because there was actually something WRONG with me beyond my lack of social experiences and I had an outlet beyond gaming (a psychologist). I gained empathy instead of learning to hate others (instead I learned to hate myself). But not everyone is that lucky. If they were, we wouldn't have a problem to begin with.[DOUBLEPOST=1410095153,1410094979][/DOUBLEPOST]And to make my point stronger, you're not like these guys either.
Here's a fine example of hatred. I got it from an article Rich Burlew (Order of the tick) tweeted today.I don't have links offhand, but I've seen comments pulled from Twitter and somewhere else. Bunch of rejects are pissed that the Human page in the new books is a black woman. I don't know if there are other things they're pissed about, but I presume they're a minority in the D&D community. At the very least, I can verify that this has occurred from my own observation.
It's no big deal; I try to mention pre-college as little as possible because I don't like remembering it anyway. It's easier to say "high school friends" than explain that the people I'm talking about didn't even like me, let alone weren't friends.Nah man... it was out of line to say it like I did and you didn't deserve it. And no, I don't think I'd ever seen that post, sorry.
If there's a silver lining to this stuff, it's that these guys aren't really gaining traction and really never could.Some people react to pain by gaining empathy. Some people react to it by isolating themselves. Others lash out at anyone and everything that gets near. It's not hard to see which people are the ones causing the problem right now.
Well, I'm glad you're with us now.I've had 24 years of drugs and therapy, 2 suicide attempts, and almost a 5 years of self reflection since I've been off the medication and out of therapy. I'm not like them because there was actually something WRONG with me beyond my lack of social experiences and I had an outlet beyond gaming (a psychologist). I gained empathy instead of learning to hate others (instead I learned to hate myself). But not everyone is that lucky. If they were, we wouldn't have a problem to begin with.
A viewpoint like in that first link seems to come from the idea that gender stuff, sexuality, race, etc should only be mentioned when making a defense of it, and that to state it for the sake of inclusiveness is only a political gesture, not as a welcome to different kinds of people. It's the same perspective that sees no importance in greater diversity of characters, as if minorities in different aspects only exist to assert their existence as opposed to because they're people.Here's a fine example of hatred. I got it from an article Rich Burlew (Order of the tick) tweeted today.
Perhaps "a lot" was a mis-measure. Regardless, some people are giving them shit over it because of course they are. Ironically, it's mostly people complaining that D&d was inclusive before (and it was, in practice) and saying this pandering like Esc said.The website you linked has such limited traffic that the analytic sites I tried can not even measure it.
Can you link to any significant sources of discussion regarding this subject?
Dear lord yes. "Rekt brah" "Get Rekt brah" "Nah brah" "Yah brah" "Rekt, brah" 24/7.There's a reason I play TF2 with everyone muted.