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What Game Did You Love When You First Played It but Can't Play Anymore?

Jul 18, 2015#1

ThatNickGuy

So Gamespot has another interesting Q&A article up. This one is titled "What Game Did You Love When You First Played but Can't Play Anymore?" I thought that question here might spark some interesting answers or conversation.

My answer, as I commented in the article:

With the exception of one of my all time favourites - Final Fantasy IV - I find I don't have the patience for RPGs like I used to. I used to spend hours grinding and levelling up characters to fight the next or last boss. Now, I find it a slog just to get through all the atrociously long cut scenes some of those games have.

Also, I've tried revisiting old platformers like Mario or especially Mega Man. My reflexes or gaming skills aren't what they used to be, because now I can't even make it to the boss in many of the Mega Man stages.

And while I grew up on Sierra adventure games (another all time favourite: Gabriel Knight 1), I find I don't have the patience to replay them, given how many chances you have to die throughout them. Especially after being spoiled of auto-saving in most games today, and forgetting to save my game every few minutes, thus losing a lot of my progress.

Jul 18, 2015#2

PatrThom

Black & White (the first one).
But the reason I can't play it is mostly hardware-related. I don't have my older computer set up at the moment to be able to play it. Also I can't find the disc, it's in a box somewhere.

--Patrick

Jul 18, 2015#3

GasBandit

MMORPGs. I was addicted to them since Everquest back in the day. Now I can't stand the thought of grinding mobs or doing fetch and kill quests.

Jul 18, 2015#4

Bubble181

Daggerfall. Loved it to bits, still think it's the best Elder Scrolls game, but...Good LORD those graphics.
Also, quite a few RPGs. I just don't have the time to invest in some games that require 100 hours to complete. I probably won't finish Witcher 3 and haven't finished Pillars of Eternity for this reason. It takes months and frankly, even if it's an amazing game, I do get bored eventually.
And of course all kinds of reflex games. Was never really good at them, but now I downright suck

Jul 18, 2015#5

sixpackshaker

I want to build a Win98 machine so I can go back and play my dozens of games that I can no longer load. I mean 5&1/4 floppy and everything.

Jul 18, 2015#6

Frank

Man, there isn't much from when I was younger I can't play now. Mostly it's just the archaic old CRPGs of yore that are all but unplayable now.

Stuff like Knights of Legend, which was a personal favorite.

Jul 18, 2015#7

Gruebeard

My fondest memory was of R-Type, but recently playing it I still enjoyed it. So uh, yeah.

Oh wait. Alex Kid. That I tried playing again recently.Losing a life to Rock, Paper, Scissors is pure bullshit.

Jul 18, 2015#8

sixpackshaker

Gruebeard said:
My fondest memory was of R-Type, but recently playing it I still enjoyed it. So uh, yeah.

Oh wait. Alex Kid. That I tried playing again recently.Losing a life to Rock, Paper, Scissors is pure bullshit.

Russian Ro sham bo?

Jul 18, 2015#9

Hailey Knight

So many ...

Largely because really big on JRPGs when I was an adolescent, and these days RPGs tend to be so much better made to avoid needless grinding that I just don't have the patience for that tedium. So it's not that I can't play the genre, just most of the ones I liked as a kid. Rare are the ones that have aged well, like Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, and Parasite Eve, versus all the Final Fantasy games, Legend of Dragoon, Breath of Fire ... honestly, a lengthy list. I was hooked on those.

Another thing is Sonic the Hedgehog. Not because I don't like the older Sonic games anymore, but I don't think my sensory input is set for the kind of speed. I tried to play Sonic 2 years ago and I felt like a slug compared to how I used to zoom through those levels.

Jul 18, 2015#10

Frank

You think Parasite Eve aged better than the SNES era RPGs? I do not share that opinion.

Jul 18, 2015#11

ThatNickGuy

GasBandit said:
MMORPGs. I was addicted to them since Everquest back in the day. Now I can't stand the thought of grinding mobs or doing fetch and kill quests.

Honestly, the only MMO to hold my interest at all was City of Heroes. The superhero setting helped a lot, especially since it was the first superhero MMO. And that longevity was largely due to goofing around as Doug the Troll.

But I tried both Champions and DCUO and neither grabbed me like CoH did.

Jul 18, 2015#12

Hailey Knight

Frank said:
You think Parasite Eve aged better than the SNES era RPGs? I do not share that opinion.

I'm thinking less SNES and more PSX overall. I played so many PSX RPGs. Did you ever play Jade Cocoon? Digimon World? Vanguard Bandits? So much crap ...

But if must do that comparison, in some cases, yes. I'd rather play Parasite Eve again than Final Fantasy V. FFV is a great game, but the time it takes to grind AP for each job and the combinations you need is just not fun. I just don't have the interest in doing that as an adult. So in this sense, I'd also rather play Final Fantasy X, because you don't really need to grind. By time time you reach the next boss, the encounters you'd naturally face will be enough to push you ahead to the strength you need to be at. (FFVIII doesn't count because I never liked that game.)

It's really the grind that I take issue with in these games. That's the preventative issue for me, so RPGs that don't require a grind are going to hold up better for me. I don't have the patience anymore to let the game come to a complete stop so I can dance in random encounters for an hour or two. And of the three I mentioned, I'd put it under Earthbound, and I'd put Chrono Trigger above them all.

I mean, if we want to look at what still holds up for us against what doesn't for other people--I just got into Mega Man last year, so I can't share Nick's issue there. These aren't old skills I'm trying to revive, but new skills I'm now acquiring, so I'm loving Mega Man like I never got the chance to as a kid.

Super Mario RPG is also fun still. Maybe my problem is just Final Fantasy games.

But another for different reasons--Xenogears. I'm so happy I played this when I was younger, because I don't think I'd want to sit through half-hour cutscenes anymore. Also, Metal Gear Solid, because I am absolutely terrible at them now. Wretched in a way that would probably make for a funny let's play. I can't even get past the beginning of Metal Gear Solid 3, so I've never seen what everyone raved about.\

And getting away from kid stuff, L.A. Noire was fun the first time, but after solving the mysteries, my attempt at a second playthrough just felt pointless.

Jul 18, 2015#13

CynicismKills

To be fair FFVIII scales with your level so grinding can actually be dangerous without a shitload of the game's real grind, Drawing magic.

I don't know that there's a type of game/specific game I'm not interested in anymore. I guess WoW would be the major one, as I played it for about 9 on and off years before finally realizing it wasn't fun anymore. Granted I play FFXIV, nowhere near as often/hardcore as I was in WoW. The raider lifestyle of MMOs is definitely behind me.

Jul 19, 2015#14

ThatNickGuy

What I hated about FF VIII was you pretty much needed a guide book or FAQ in order to do well in the game. There were certain enemies you needed to steal specific items from in order to get the best weapons in the game. I believe Squall's final sword required an item you could only get from an enemy during the prison part of the story. Only that part is locked off after you've completed that section, so you're completely screwed if you didn't get it then.

Jul 19, 2015#15

Frank

ThatNickGuy said:
What I hated about FF VIII was you pretty much needed a guide book or FAQ in order to do well in the game. There were certain enemies you needed to steal specific items from in order to get the best weapons in the game. I believe Squall's final sword required an item you could only get from an enemy during the prison part of the story. Only that part is locked off after you've completed that section, so you're completely screwed if you didn't get it then.

They all did that. I swear Square had a deal with Brady. 12 is the most egregious example with it's random treasure chest that if you looted early in the game, the best weapon in the game was not available later on.

Jul 19, 2015#16

ThatNickGuy

Frank said:
They all did that. I swear Square had a deal with Brady. 12 is the most egregious example with it's random treasure chest that if you looted early in the game, the best weapon in the game was not available later on.

I think from 8 and on they did crap like that that. I don't think 7 had anything that bad. Or would the Knights of the Round summon fall count? It's been a LONG time since I've dived back into FF7, mind you. I'm very certain nothing egregious like that was in FF6.

Jul 19, 2015#17

sixpackshaker

Well thanks to this thread, I bought Sword of the Samurai from GOG.

Jul 19, 2015#18

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
I think from 8 and on they did crap like that that. I don't think 7 had anything that bad. Or would the Knights of the Round summon fall count? It's been a LONG time since I've dived back into FF7, mind you. I'm very certain nothing egregious like that was in FF6.

Getting Knights of the Round certainly counts, because it requires chocobo breeding. Beating Emerald and Ruby is stuff you can come up with on your own, but figuring out the kinds of chocobo that should make more chocobos isn't really intuitive or explained.

FF6 has plenty of secrets ... I don't know. I wouldn't have kept Shadow without being told that I had to wait for him. Someone with a better recollection of the game's extra bits would have to weigh in.

FF5, I only played once and don't recall.

FF4 definitely didn't have any bullshit. You could 100% that game without any assistance.

Jul 19, 2015#19

ThatNickGuy

Zero Esc said:
Getting Knights of the Round certainly counts, because it requires chocobo breeding. Beating Emerald and Ruby is stuff you can come up with on your own, but figuring out the kinds of chocobo that should make more chocobos isn't really intuitive or explained.

FF6 has plenty of secrets ... I don't know. I wouldn't have kept Shadow without being told that I had to wait for him. Someone with a better recollection of the game's extra bits would have to weigh in.

FF5, I only played once and don't recall.

FF4 definitely didn't have any bullshit. You could 100% that game without any assistance.

Riiiiight, Shadow. I forgot all about him. Yeah, I'd say that counts. And you're spot on with the chocobo breeding and Emerald & Ruby. To this day, I've yet to beat either of them.

And the distinct lack of bullshit in FF4 is likely why it's one of my all time favourite games.

Jul 19, 2015#20

Frank

The Shadow thing isn't game guide fodder. That's one of those secrets I remember hearing from somebody. Those have existed since the dawn of games.

Jul 19, 2015#21

ThatNickGuy

Frank said:
The Shadow thing isn't game guide fodder. That's one of those secrets I remember hearing from somebody. Those have existed since the dawn of games.

Yeah, but there were guides even back then. I imagine that's where it started. Fortunately, having Shadow or not wasn't a huge game-breaker like not being able to make the final weapons in FF8.

There was also his dreams/flashbacks, which were only discovered by visiting different inns before and after the world ended. From what I remember, there was absolutely no reward for doing that, which is a little disappointing.

Jul 19, 2015#22

Hailey Knight

Frank said:
The Shadow thing isn't game guide fodder. That's one of those secrets I remember hearing from somebody. Those have existed since the dawn of games.

You could hear about any of these things from someone else.

The Shadow thing sits on the line in my opinion. It's hard to discern with FF6 when almost half of the game's content is optional.[DOUBLEPOST=1437312045,1437311911][/DOUBLEPOST]

ThatNickGuy said:
Yeah, but there were guides even back then. I imagine that's where it started. Fortunately, having Shadow or not wasn't a huge game-breaker like not being able to make the final weapons in FF8.

Depends. I can't stand the idea of FFVI's ending without all the characters

. That escape montage after beating the final boss was beautiful.

As for Emerald and Ruby--you didn't miss anything but bragging rights. Technically you get some rewards in the form of master materia, but if you're strong enough to beat either of those two, then Sephiroth will go down pretty fast. I'm sure the remake will have an achievement.

Jul 19, 2015#23

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
. I'm very certain nothing egregious like that was in FF6.

Because of the flaky numbering scheme, I'm not sure which game I'm thinking of (all I know is that it was pre-VII), but there were still things like, "in order to get the best weapon for [blah] you have to click on this otherwise unremarkable piece of wall in this specific room" with no lore or anything to point you there, it's just something that was probably hidden by a programmer and then spread by oral tradition.

--Patrick

Jul 19, 2015#24

ThatNickGuy

PatrThom said:
Because of the flaky numbering scheme, I'm not sure which game I'm thinking of (all I know is that it was pre-VII), but there were still things like, "in order to get the best weapon for [blah] you have to click on this otherwise unremarkable piece of wall in this specific room" with no lore or anything to point you there, it's just something that was probably hidden by a programmer and then spread by oral tradition.

--Patrick

VI was the one with Kefka, the world ending, and a yeti. Personally, I just go by the Japanese numbering from now on. I think most (or all) of the games have been ported over by now, so it's safe to just go by that system. I get why they did at the time, but I haven't thought of it as "III" in decades.

Jul 19, 2015#25

Hailey Knight

PatrThom said:
Because of the flaky numbering scheme, I'm not sure which game I'm thinking of (all I know is that it was pre-VII), but there were still things like, "in order to get the best weapon for [blah] you have to click on this otherwise unremarkable piece of wall in this specific room" with no lore or anything to point you there, it's just something that was probably hidden by a programmer and then spread by oral tradition.

--Patrick

That was the case in an Atari game, which is certainly pre-VII, but I can't recall anything for a Final Fantasy game.

Jul 19, 2015#26

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
VI was the one with Kefka, the world ending, and a yeti.

Right, I'm just saying I don't remember which SNES cart it's from because the graphics were so similar.

--Patrick

Jul 19, 2015#27

sixpackshaker

I am now downloading Master of Orion II. Dammit I swear @ThatNickGuy works for Good Old Games dot Com.

Jul 19, 2015#28

ThatNickGuy

sixpackshaker said:
I am now downloading Master of Orion II. Dammit I swear @ThatNickGuy works for Good Old Games dot Com.

Jul 19, 2015#29

PatrThom

sixpackshaker said:
I am now downloading Master of Orion II. Dammit I swear @ThatNickGuy works for Good Old Games dot Com.

It's still one of my top three games of all time. OF ALL TIME!

--Patrick

Jul 19, 2015#30

AshburnerX

My biggest issue with playing my old games is I need a proper upscaling tool in order to play them on their native systems on my TV. Without them, I don't get a true depiction of their graphics... but I'm going to need to spent like 500 bucks to get a GOOD upscaler if I want a true experience. I'm literally thinking about pirating my entire collection (that I already own) and playing them on PC because I can get a truer visual experience that way without spending hundreds of dollars.

Zero Esc said:
FF4 definitely didn't have any bullshit. You could 100% that game without any assistance.

Getting the Pink Tail for additional Adamantium so you could make the best armor. This required you to farm a rare spawning enemy in a single room in the last dungeon, without any clue that it was where you had to do it.

Jul 19, 2015#31

ThatNickGuy

AshburnerX said:
Getting the Pink Tail for additional Adamantium so you could make the best armor. This required you to farm a rare spawning enemy in a single room in the last dungeon, without any clue that it was where you had to do it.

...huh. I didn't even know about that.

Jul 19, 2015#32

grub

All this talk of old games made me dust off my warcraft 2 cd and figure out how to use dosshell and dosbox. thanks

Jul 19, 2015#33

AshburnerX

ThatNickGuy said:
...huh. I didn't even know about that.

Later versions of the game also have extra hidden bosses. For instance, in the DS/PC version, you can find a Giant of Babel to fight on the Moon. You can also return to Mt. Ordeals and interact with a location on the top of the mountain to fight all 4 Elemental Fiends combined into a single form, which is nasty as hell.

Jul 19, 2015#34

Hailey Knight

AshburnerX said:
Getting the Pink Tail for additional Adamantium so you could make the best armor. This required you to farm a rare spawning enemy in a single room in the last dungeon, without any clue that it was where you had to do it.

Same as Nick--I've never heard of that until now.

Stuff added in later versions shouldn't count; I know FF6 Advance added stuff I wished was in the PSX version I played. I did everything you could do in that version, but for some reason it didn't feel complete because there was no optional super-boss. Which was okay, because really even with getting every character, esper, weapon, etc., Kefka's Tower and that incredible final boss fight were still challenging and rewarding.

I just don't ever want to do it again.

Jul 19, 2015#35

Ravenpoe

Shadow Hearts: Covenant

This game is easily one of my favorite rpgs of all time, but it's too jrpg-ey. Even with its meta humor to keep things fresh, and the epic scope of the story (seriously, it's amazing) I just can't do jrpgs anymore.

Jul 19, 2015#36

PatrThom

Kati has said she would probably play the FF series (at least up until VII) because she is interested in the storylines, but she just can't get past the fact that it's so hard to tell which pile of colored pixels is which character in the older ones.

--Patrick

Jul 19, 2015#37

Hailey Knight

All I need is Taaaactiiiiics ...

Jul 19, 2015#38

CynicismKills

Which is funny considering the potential grinding in FFT if you want to build your party properly for the late-game/sidequests.

Thinking on it, FFVI was probably the first FF to really push grinding if you wanted to be powerful. With FFV you had two Jobs per character at most to worry about, plus character level. FFVI you had to have nearly the entire party at a reasonable level for the final dungeon, plus Mog/Gau needing special attention for their skills, plus the Esper system, PLUS sidequests for weapons/bonus characters/etc.

I never really thought about how fucking huge FFVI is until now.

Jul 19, 2015#39

AshburnerX

CynicismKills said:
Which is funny considering the potential grinding in FFT if you want to build your party properly for the late-game/sidequests.

Thinking on it, FFVI was probably the first FF to really push grinding if you wanted to be powerful. With FFV you had two Jobs per character at most to worry about, plus character level. FFVI you had to have nearly the entire party at a reasonable level for the final dungeon, plus Mog/Gau needing special attention for their skills, plus the Esper system, PLUS sidequests for weapons/bonus characters/etc.

I never really thought about how fucking huge FFVI is until now.

7 isn't much better. Grinding out Limit Breaks, then getting each Level 4 Limit Break, plus their special weapons... plus any end game materia you wanted. It's just that leveling curve was much smoother in 7 than in 6.

Jul 19, 2015#40

CynicismKills

AshburnerX said:
7 isn't much better. Grinding out Limit Breaks, then getting each Level 4 Limit Break, plus their special weapons... plus any end game materia you wanted. It's just that leveling curve was much smoother in 7 than in 6.

Yeah I figure VI was the first to really start the trend of the more heavy-handed grinding. Limits in VII are still, to me, absolutely the worst thing, almost as annoying as Draw but definitely as boring to grind.

I think the most punishing, though, is IX's ability-through-equipment, in that you had to purposely gimp yourself in old gear if you didn't sit and grind out abilities before upgrading, as you had no idea when you'd see abilities repeat on newer equipment.

Jul 19, 2015#41

Frank

6 didn't need any grinding. You could play that one start to finish with minimal grinding. It's a bit more of a challenge than if you grind, but completely doable. Now, getting ALL the things for ALL the characters. That took some time, but it was entirely unnecessary.

Jul 19, 2015#42

Hailey Knight

CynicismKills said:
I think the most punishing, though, is IX's ability-through-equipment, in that you had to purposely gimp yourself in old gear if you didn't sit and grind out abilities before upgrading, as you had no idea when you'd see abilities repeat on newer equipment.

Oh yeah, that could fuck off. I hated that. Not as much as Draw from FFVIII, but yeah.

Jul 19, 2015#43

ThatNickGuy

I wonder, has anyone tried beating the game with the absolute minimal amount of characters? Basically, how many you have by the time you get the airship?

Jul 19, 2015#44

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
I wonder, has anyone tried beating the game with the absolute minimal amount of characters? Basically, how many you have by the time you get the airship?

I've thought about that. I'd be really interested in seeing how the ending went.

Jul 19, 2015#45

AshburnerX

ThatNickGuy said:
I wonder, has anyone tried beating the game with the absolute minimal amount of characters? Basically, how many you have by the time you get the airship?

It's three: Celes, Edgar, and Setzer. Yes, it's doable... mostly because Setzer is broken with Offering/Genji glove/Fixed Dice/Dice, but also because Edgar's tools are broken as fuck. But you have to grind massively.

Jul 19, 2015#46

figmentPez

Back in the days of the 286 processor I used to love a game I remember as Space Quest. Why can't I play it now? Because I can't even find that it exists, because it's not that Space Quest. It wasn't by Sierra.

Here's all that I remember about it:

It was all first person perspective, with 4 color CGA graphics.

You had to kill a guard to get a gun.
Use the gun to kill the guy with a laser sword
Use the lazer sword to kill a big alien/dragon thing

Before teleporting from the space station to the planet below, winning the game, you had to use the bathroom or you'd explode when teleporting.

Jul 19, 2015#47

Hailey Knight

AshburnerX said:
But you have to grind massively.

More grinding?

[DOUBLEPOST=1437353108,1437352676][/DOUBLEPOST]Actually, to help get things off Final Fantasy ...

Godzilla: Monster of Monsters for the NES. I played this as often as I could when we got the NES. It was the first game I ever beat, and I was so damn proud of myself. I'm even more proud of little me because I tried watching a Let's Play of that game last year and it was just a slog. Bosses cheat, you have to fight them again every planet, the levels repeat, and you have to do them twice, with both Godzilla and Mothra. There's certainly nostalgia there when I look at it or hear the music, but as with Final Fantasy, I don't think I'd have the patience to go through it all again.

CynicismKills said:
Which is funny considering the potential grinding in FFT if you want to build your party properly for the late-game/sidequests.

I don't mind doing things repeatedly if I'm having fun doing so. I never really found the traditional Final Fantasy battles fun; they were just an obstacle between me and experiencing the story. With Tactics, every battle goes different and I can do all sorts of silly, fun things. I loved going to some of the higher plane battles with all my characters having Ignore Height, than just leaping way up to the top and raining arrows and magic on enemies that couldn't reach us.

That said, it's long overdue for an update, and I doubt I'd feel like doing all the side quests again if I played it now. And that game was big-time guilty of needing a guide, to the point that the guide was insufficient. There were so many hidden weapons, items, armor, on maps you could only visit once. Really, Deep Dungeon and the secret characters were easy. There wasn't a point where you couldn't go do them once they became available, but if you missed a chance to steal a certain boss's weapon? Too bad, it's gone forever, and it was really good too.

Jul 19, 2015#48

ThatNickGuy

figmentPez said:
Back in the days of the 286 processor I used to love a game I remember as Space Quest. Why can't I play it now? Because I can't even find that it exists, because it's not that Space Quest. It wasn't by Sierra.

Here's all that I remember about it:

It was all first person perspective, with 4 color CGA graphics.

You had to kill a guard to get a gun.
Use the gun to kill the guy with a laser sword
Use the lazer sword to kill a big alien/dragon thing

Before teleporting from the space station to the planet below, winning the game, you had to use the bathroom or you'd explode when teleporting.

That...sounds really familiar. You're right, I don't think it was Space Quest, but that sounds REALLY familiar.

Jul 19, 2015#49

CynicismKills

Frank said:
6 didn't need any grinding. You could play that one start to finish with minimal grinding. It's a bit more of a challenge than if you grind, but completely doable. Now, getting ALL the things for ALL the characters. That took some time, but it was entirely unnecessary.

Right but no FF past IV really needed grinding. IV only needed it if you wanted to slap around the minibosses guarding the items in the last dungeon, and really in V you could swap everyone's job once or twice and be set. VI didn't need it, but you'd miss out on a lot of the game if you just blew through it (also the broken as fuck Invis/XZone made the game basically ezmode).

Jul 19, 2015#50

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
Back in the days of the 286 processor I used to love a game I remember as Space Quest. Why can't I play it now? Because I can't even find that it exists, because it's not that Space Quest. It wasn't by Sierra.

Here's all that I remember about it:

It was all first person perspective, with 4 color CGA graphics.

You had to kill a guard to get a gun.
Use the gun to kill the guy with a laser sword
Use the lazer sword to kill a big alien/dragon thing

Before teleporting from the space station to the planet below, winning the game, you had to use the bathroom or you'd explode when teleporting.

Hey now, you've been asking this question since May of 2011 and still no answer?

--Patrick

Jul 19, 2015#51

CynicismKills

Zero Esc said:
I don't mind doing things repeatedly if I'm having fun doing so. I never really found the traditional Final Fantasy battles fun; they were just an obstacle between me and experiencing the story. With Tactics, every battle goes different and I can do all sorts of silly, fun things. I loved going to some of the higher plane battles with all my characters having Ignore Height, than just leaping way up to the top and raining arrows and magic on enemies that couldn't reach us.

That said, it's long overdue for an update, and I doubt I'd feel like doing all the side quests again if I played it now. And that game was big-time guilty of needing a guide, to the point that the guide was insufficient. There were so many hidden weapons, items, armor, on maps you could only visit once. Really, Deep Dungeon and the secret characters were easy. There wasn't a point where you couldn't go do them once they became available, but if you missed a chance to steal a certain boss's weapon? Too bad, it's gone forever, and it was really good too.

Ah, the joys of the Genji equipment.

Jul 21, 2015#52

bhamv3

This kinda saddens me to say, but Just Cause 2.

I'm a huge fan of the game. Seriously, every time it went on sale on Steam, I'd post messages here gushing about how awesome it is, and how everybody should get it, and it'll replace your need for sex and/or porn for the foreseeable future.

Recently I fired it up again, and... well... I got bored. Basically all you do in the game is fly/drive around and blow shit up. That's the purpose of your character in the game, indeed the very plot of the game is that you need to blow shit up. The map is massive, but all you do in that huge area is blow shit up.

It's a one trick pony. Granted, it does that trick quite well, but still... after so many other open-world games where there are greater varieties of things to do, Just Cause 2 seems boring in comparison.

Jul 21, 2015#53

fade

All of them, really. I've never really found replaying a game enjoyable.

Jul 21, 2015#54

sixpackshaker

fade said:
All of them, really. I've never really found replaying a game enjoyable.

In before....

Jul 21, 2015#55

Null

ThatNickGuy said:
I think from 8 and on they did crap like that that. I don't think 7 had anything that bad. Or would the Knights of the Round summon fall count? It's been a LONG time since I've dived back into FF7, mind you. I'm very certain nothing egregious like that was in FF6.

Well, you did have to grind the fuck out of your chocobo breeding to get KOTR, so there's that.

For me, there comes a point in most recent final fantasy games where the sidequests for the really awesome stuff become too much work, and I stop playing, and I never finish the game. "Hey, you need to beat this monster in the arena that can OHKO every party member that isn't totally optimized. And you have to do it 10 times, to get an item that's not available in any other way, to use in crafting this other thing you'll need for doing something else."

Jul 21, 2015#56

Simfers

Y'know, I don't usually replay my games, there's always new ones coming out after all, but relatively recently, I re-started Breath of Fire 3 and after a while, I just... couldn't. Couldn't really tell you why, it just stopped being fun. It kinda sucks, because I loved that game when I played it through the first time...

Jul 21, 2015#57

CynicismKills

Simfers said:
Y'know, I don't usually replay my games, there's always new ones coming out after all, but relatively recently, I re-started Breath of Fire 3 and after a while, I just... couldn't. Couldn't really tell you why, it just stopped being fun. It kinda sucks, because I loved that game when I played it through the first time...

My issue was the game having some of those Point of No Return saves without warning. The one I always remember was the arena, where you have to solo fight a lot and if you weren't prepared you were basically fucked without some lucky dodges.

Jul 21, 2015#58

Hailey Knight

fade said:
All of them, really. I've never really found replaying a game enjoyable.

Rare enough to find a game enjoyable the first time, right? :awesome:

Jul 21, 2015#59

fade

Zero Esc said:
Rare enough to find a game enjoyable the first time, right?

I am a man of exquisite taste.

Jul 21, 2015#60

Cheesy1

fade said:
I am a man of exquisite taste.

Jul 21, 2015#61

fade

Cheesy1 said:
View attachment 18812

I say! This book appears to be written in ancient hieroglyphics.

You're holding it upside down.

Ahem. So I am.

Jul 21, 2015#62

Hailey Knight

I guess we can count out Fade ever playing Left 4 Dead 2 with us again--he's already played it.

And on that note, I'll add Left 4 Dead 1 to the list. I played a ton of it before, but Left 4 Dead 2 introduced so many improvements, and then absorbed all of L4D1's characters and maps, that there's just nothing to return to in the original game.

Jul 22, 2015#63

Dave

There are two games that come to mind, neither of which I can find. Well, I sort of found one a few years ago, but it didn't look the same as my memory.

The first was called Empire. It was a pre-civ strategy game with a small amount of units - tanks (the only one that could capture a city), planes (20 spaces total flight, if you ended a turn without landing in a city it crashed), destroyers, cruisers, submarines, carriers, and battleships. Basically you played against an AI or another player at the same computer - before the time of online play - captured cities and tried to cover the map. It was a fun time-waster and one of the first if not the first turn-based strategy game for the PC. Used to play this for hours. You could rename all of your ships or planes and the fights were epic. Myself and two friends would play the fights for hours taking turns on the same computer.

The second game I just plain can't remember the name of. It was a space turn-based strategy on the Amiga. Much like the old Space Trader game on the BBS boards (or even HalSpace Traders here), but it was not a trading game, just a conquest game. But this one was actually graphical...well, sort of. It was an Amiga, so the graphics weren't that great. The gameplay was simplistic and the interface was as well. But when I say this was turn-based that doesn't really show the whole story.

Say you have 4 people playing against each other. You take turns entering the commands for your units. Once everyone is done, you execute the round and everyone's turn goes at once! So say you own planet #1 and another guy owns planet #2 and they are close. You decide to send your entire fleet to attack #2...but your friend send his entire fleet to attack #1. At the end of the turn, both planets are attacked and undefended (only defense is having ships in orbit) and is essence just change hands. Or you send 1/2 your fleet to attack #2 and he sends nobody to attack. Suddenly 1/2 your fleet is demolished by his superior force and now #1 is not very well defended.

Now let's add in another wrinkle. These attacks don't just happen. You can attack any planet on the map from any other planet. So you send out scouts that will surely perish, but they'll radio back the number of defenders (if any) at a planet. Scouts can NOT see each other. This is an important point. So you scout a planet, find it undefended, and send a fleet. Oops. Turns out someone else was scouting the planet and sent a BIGGER fleet. EVEN BETTER is that when you go from one planet to another it takes a certain number of turns to get there depending on distance. So that planet you are scouting that has no defenses? Well, you can send your whole fleet there - arriving in 5 turns - and on the third turn a fleet shows up, destroys your scout, and lets you know that you just sent your fleet to certain doom...and there's nothing you can do about it.

Now take this and put 4-6 people playing the same game in a universe with over 100 planets. You get some idea as to the chaos of this game. It was absolutely amazing when it got going. It's the kind of game I've been searching for for forums. X number of people play and can put in their moves. The computer automatically executes everyone's moves at midnight. So at first you can make one or two moves per day but after a time you can play all day making moves. And if you miss a day nothing is really hurt because your fleet is either in transit or guarding a planet. Oh, and planets you own generate a # of ships based on it's production rating. So if you are off for a long time your planets just get better and better guarded.

Those are the two games I'd love to be able to play again. I bet you can figure out which one I'd rather see first.

Jul 22, 2015#64

GasBandit

M.U.L.E.

Because it's local multiplayer only.

Jul 22, 2015#65

Null

GasBandit said:
M.U.L.E.

Because it's local multiplayer only.

I played SOOOO much M.U.L.E. And Koronis Rift. I'd love to see Koronis Rift made into a functional modern game.

Jul 22, 2015#66

GasBandit

Null said:
I played SOOOO much M.U.L.E. And Koronis Rift. I'd love to see Koronis Rift made into a functional modern game.

Camera pans to Gas Bandit, age 5, playing M.U.L.E., learning basic economics.

"A distant relative passed away and left you a vast fortune, but after taxes, only $100 remained."

A LIBERTARIAN IS BORN

Jul 22, 2015#67

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
Camera pans to Gas Bandit, age 5, playing M.U.L.E., learning basic economics.

"A distant relative passed away and left you a vast fortune, but after taxes, only $100 remained."

A LIBERTARIAN IS BORN

Do you actually have to pay taxes and shit in MULE? I thought you were so far into the frontier you were basically your own government.

Jul 22, 2015#68

Null

AshburnerX said:
Do you actually have to pay taxes and shit in MULE? I thought you were so far into the frontier you were basically your own government.

Yes and no - you could receive various boons now and then, and the flavor text for why it wasn't more was often "taxes" or "bribes" or the like. "Your family has decided to help invest in your efforts, but after so many people along the way take a cut, you only receive $45". And I think you could get interest-free loans? Like you'd get an amount of money, but you'd have to make it back in x amount of turns or lose?

Jul 22, 2015#69

GasBandit

AshburnerX said:
Do you actually have to pay taxes and shit in MULE? I thought you were so far into the frontier you were basically your own government.

Well, the only government is the "house" during auctions, and while it doesn't charge taxes, it does sort of act as price controls.

Null said:
Yes and no - you could receive various boons now and then, and the flavor text for why it wasn't more was often "taxes" or "bribes" or the like. "Your family has decided to help invest in your efforts, but after so many people along the way take a cut, you only receive $45". And I think you could get interest-free loans? Like you'd get an amount of money, but you'd have to make it back in x amount of turns or lose?

No loans that I remember, but he's right about the flavor text. Instead of randomly finding $50, it would say "Your MULE mech won "best of show" at the colony fair, awarding you a prize of $50." The one I got ALL THE TIME was the one of the distant relative passing away, but only getting the small amount that was left over after taxes.

Also, if you were lucky, you could catch the mountain wampus for extra cash.

Jul 22, 2015#70

Jay

Frank said:
They all did that. I swear Square had a deal with Brady. 12 is the most egregious example with it's random treasure chest that if you looted early in the game, the best weapon in the game was not available later on.

WTF

Jul 22, 2015#71

AshburnerX

Jay said:
WTF

He's technically incorrect. You simply had a much higher chance of getting that weapon from a certain chest if you didn't open these specific chests, due to how the RNG was configured. However, you could still get it the old fashioned way... which involved getting it at an extremely low rate from a different chest in the secret dungeon.

It was also completely overrated. There were better, easier weapons to get.

Jul 22, 2015#72

Frank

Jay said:
WTF

Check out this bullshit. It's so fucking arbitrary.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Zodiac_Spear

I always wished the International version of the game was released here.

Jul 22, 2015#73

AshburnerX

Interestingly, the Zodiac Spear is basically a artful Roman Legionaire's spear, which means the "Zodiac Spear" name is probably hiding the fact that it's the Lance of Longinus/Holy Spear/Spear of Victory/ etc.

Jul 22, 2015#74

CynicismKills

AshburnerX said:
He's technically incorrect. You simply had a much higher chance of getting that weapon from a certain chest if you didn't open these specific chests, due to how the RNG was configured. However, you could still get it the old fashioned way... which involved getting it at an extremely low rate from a different chest in the secret dungeon.

It was also completely overrated. There were better, easier weapons to get.

What? Zodiac Spear was the highest attack power weapon in the game, if you were building someone as a physical DPS it was easily the best weapon. The other high-AP weapons were gated behind Hunts and optional bosses, some of which could take literal hours to beat. Zodiac could be picked up fairly early, too, as long as you're good at dodging fights. Any other weapon that remotely compared to it was going to require a lot more effort than "hey don't open that," stupid as the idea of linking chests was.

The Zodiac Spear (until the FF12 re-release) would not appear in the extra dungeon if you looted these other chests. The chests at Phon Coast, like the wiki link Frank provided says, correspond to the chests in the extra dungeon.

e: Yeah flipping through my old player's guide for FF12, the best 2hand swords would require either good luck while stealing/farming from monsters, clearing out all the Zodiac bosses, and/or clearing the majority of Special Hunts. The swords have a lower attack power than the spear anyway, and use/check against the same stats.

Jul 22, 2015#75

AshburnerX

CynicismKills said:
The Zodiac Spear (until the FF12 re-release) would not appear in the extra dungeon if you looted these other chests. The chests at Phon Coast, like the wiki link Frank provided says, correspond to the chests in the extra dungeon.

From the wiki:

A second Zodiac Spear can be obtained in an alternative site, the Henne Mines' Phase 2 Dig. Even if the mentioned forbidden chests named in the above chart are opened, the spear is still obtainable here. However, to unlock the site, at least 10 Espers must be acquired, and the Mindflayer Hunt completed. The player must speak to Geomancer Yugelu in Jahara to unlock this site, reachable via the Ore Separation.

So you could, in fact, get the spear this way if you wanted. It's just that you only had a 10% chance getting the chest to spawn each run, a 10% chance of it having an item, and only a 1% chance of it having the Spear (and only with a Diamond Armlet equipped on the party leader). And you really don't need it at that point in the game.

As for better weapons... Masamune has a natural 40% combo rate. Putting on a Genji Glove makes that 70%. This makes it defacto better at high levels where getting more hits out is more important than the damage of the weapon because everyone is hitting for max damage anyway.

Jul 22, 2015#76

CynicismKills

Beating 10 Espers is kind of a chore compared to just checking what chests to skip, though. Some of those later ones were pretty brutal if I remember right.

That is true about the katanas though, but by the time I'd gotten to the endgame I think I was so tired of farming and starting up sidequests I think I just went with the spear instead. I usually had control of my tank-build character, so whoever did my physical DPS just did his own thing with whatever Gambits I slapped on them.

Jul 22, 2015#77

AshburnerX

CynicismKills said:
Beating 10 Espers is kind of a chore compared to just checking what chests to skip, though. Some of those later ones were pretty brutal if I remember right.

I wouldn't call it a chore... I mean, why WOULDN'T you fight them? They are some of the most iconic fights in the game and it's how you unlocked new summons.

Jul 23, 2015#78

CynicismKills

AshburnerX said:
I wouldn't call it a chore... I mean, why WOULDN'T you fight them? They are some of the most iconic fights in the game and it's how you unlocked new summons.

I know at least one of them had some weird secret to unlocking them, something to do with taking paths a certain way in a dungeon in order to open the way to them. I called it a chore mainly because the effort to fight them all compared to how useful they were to finishing the game was pretty staggering. Granted, the final bosses were all pushovers. Most of the postgame/sidequest strategies didn't really need them, either, those all came down to Bubble/Reverse/Decoy and proper Gambit setup.

In terms of iconic you're right, though, and the design work on them was easily some of the best in the game.

Honestly thinking about it I'd probably put FFXII in the realm of games I like, but might not play again. It's got what feels like a really weird difficulty curve in that early game is easy, midgame gets pretty difficult, and endgame's pretty easy.

Jul 23, 2015#79

Null

Yeah, you get near the endgame, and everything's fairly easy... and then you make the mistake of going to the Subterra, at which point your entire party gets gangraped by giant toads. Or that mine section with the level 99 critters.

Jul 24, 2015#80

Siska

Thunderscape. Was my favorite RPG. I bought it a few months before I got Elder Scrolls and I actually liked it better. However 20 years later on a modern high resolution large screen the graphics are a brownish grey pixelated mess. Really hard to make things out. Also sound effects are awful. Badass music though!

Jul 24, 2015#81

GasBandit

Siska said:
Thunderscape. Was my favorite RPG. I bought it a few months before I got Elder Scrolls and I actually liked it better. However 20 years later on a modern high resolution large screen the graphics are a brownish grey pixelated mess. Really hard to make things out. Also sound effects are awful. Badass music though!

Huh. That looks and sounds a lot like Ultima Underworld, which was my pre-Elder Scrolls ES game. Every once in a while I still break it out with dosbox, even though the pixels are now as big as my fingernails.

Jul 24, 2015#82

Jay

Battlehawks 1942

Great ww2 flight sim back in the 80ies now all nostalgia, it's so ancient.

Jul 29, 2015#83

Siska

GasBandit said:
Huh. That looks and sounds a lot like Ultima Underworld, which was my pre-Elder Scrolls ES game. Every once in a while I still break it out with dosbox, even though the pixels are now as big as my fingernails.

I think it's on GOG if you want to try it. It's mostly dungeon crawling. Turnbased combat as you can see in the vidoe. Linear story as in you complete one area and then have no reason to go back, ever. A lot of character and skill leveling focus. I recommend reading the manual for skills.Takes place in the world of Aden. Another game, Etromorph: Plague of the Darkfall., also took place in Aden but other then that they have nothing in common.

Aug 3, 2015#84

TNM

MUDs, specifically Medieva. Back in the days of dial-up and poor graphic games there was an alternative - text games!

Aug 3, 2015#85

PatrThom

TNM said:
MUDs, specifically Medieva. Back in the days of dial-up and poor graphic games there was an alternative - text games!

Still is.

--Patrick

Aug 3, 2015#86

Ravenpoe

PatrThom said:
Still is.

--Patrick

I still play some muds.

Aug 3, 2015#87

CrimsonSoul

Legend of the red dragon I use to love that game

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Aug 3, 2015#88

GasBandit

CrimsonSoul said:
Legend of the red dragon I use to love that game

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Fuck yeah Legend of the Red Dragon. I'll flirt the hell out of Violet.

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