What is the worst amendment to the United States Constitution?
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GasBandit
Staff member
Yeah, we call those "windsocks."
Your response makes no sense.
S
Soliloquy
I think... GasBandit might be having a nervous breakdown.
Gas, are you okay?
Gas, are you okay?
GasBandit
Staff member
No. It's that some people are so desperate to avoid being "labeled" that they'll pretend they have complex combinations of views that aren't represented, when everything's pretty much already been diagrammed on spectra. To keep up the appearance, they'll vascillate between this and that, and the pragmatic upshot isn't that you have nuanced views, it's that you don't have enough conviction to fill a shot glass.
He said "tolerant republicans." You are not a republican. You're not part of the defined subset, so using your own views as a counterpoint isn't valid. Someone who supports the (purported) republican position of personal economic liberty and systemic economic responsibility, but isn't comfortable with christian theocracy, wants gay people to be able to marry same as anyone else, and maybe thinks the war on drugs is a waste of time and money... that person has libertarian views. Contrary to snide comments from the peanut gallery, libertarianism isn't all about making sure nobody helps anybody.
What YOU said made no sense. At the risk of he who is quiet flipping a table, it'd be as if he had said "if only more people who liked cake glazed with holes in the middle ate donuts" and you said "well maybe he hates donuts AND cake."
Gas, you said-
"Most americans are idiots who prefer the illusory simplicity of a false dichotomy to having to actually put effort into educating themselves about voting."
To which I replied
"Unlikely, if speaking of "tolerant republicans." Looney lefties with house avatars maybe.
Of course, there's the other side of the coin too, the guys who thinks Jesus says the government needs to pay their way through life, amen."
I wasn't responding to him, I was responding to you. I don't have to be a Republican to be included in subset to comment on your overgeneralized phrase which had nothing to do with just the subset. Unless you're saying all Americans are Republican, which of course is stupid.
As for the rest of the crap you wrote, I have no idea what drug you are taking to get to THAT conclusion from what I said.
"Most americans are idiots who prefer the illusory simplicity of a false dichotomy to having to actually put effort into educating themselves about voting."
To which I replied
"Unlikely, if speaking of "tolerant republicans." Looney lefties with house avatars maybe.
Of course, there's the other side of the coin too, the guys who thinks Jesus says the government needs to pay their way through life, amen."
I wasn't responding to him, I was responding to you. I don't have to be a Republican to be included in subset to comment on your overgeneralized phrase which had nothing to do with just the subset. Unless you're saying all Americans are Republican, which of course is stupid.
As for the rest of the crap you wrote, I have no idea what drug you are taking to get to THAT conclusion from what I said.
GasBandit
Staff member
Oh, I thought you were responding to the one before it. In the "most americans" quote, I wasn't just referring to the Libertarian party as the only "third" option. There's the Green party, the Reform party, a wide selection of socialist parties... heck, there's even a Rent Is Too Damn High Party.
I was, however, including a great many republicans under the heading of most americans, being idiots.
Believe me, if there was a strong progressive centrist party, that's where I would be sitting.
We need a Everybody Please STFU I'm Trying to Support My Family Party
And a Why Is the Jersey Shore Still On TV Party
And a Mass Effect 3 Endings Suck Party
We need a separate political party for every single divergent viewpoint.
Because then at least political power blocs will be so painful to assemble, most of the bullshit would hopefully not happen.
And a Why Is the Jersey Shore Still On TV Party
And a Mass Effect 3 Endings Suck Party
We need a separate political party for every single divergent viewpoint.
Because then at least political power blocs will be so painful to assemble, most of the bullshit would hopefully not happen.
The only thing worse than a party system in politics is a system with NO parties. Your reps and senators are almost there already. Think of it this way: will anybody be confident enough to actually cut budgets? No, because on each and every bill, you have to practically BRIBE each member with pork for their district. It means that nobody votes for anything without "what's in it for me (or their district)?" This is already your problem, even with two parties, because they're relatively weak.
You guys need more than a 2-party system true, but don't let it dissolve into the writhing masses. That's even worse.
You guys need more than a 2-party system true, but don't let it dissolve into the writhing masses. That's even worse.
fade
Staff member
So, the only possible interpretation of a willingness to hear arguments objectively is that you're just trying to keep up appearances to some spectral viewership you apparently have? Huh. Well, damn me for not going out and finding the obscure party that exactly matches my points of view. Clearly, my unwillingness to align with such a party is a product of my vanity.
Necronic
Staff member
Or if they've gotten through their "high-school politics" phase and come to realize that the libertarian party is unpractical and founded entirely on ideology.
Well, you do hate everything.
GasBandit
Staff member
A funny thing happens if you hold the democrat and republican parties up to the same scrutiny.
Necronic
Staff member
Heh, true enough.
And Incubus.
Yes, because holding the individuals responsible would just be silly, wouldn't it.
Wouldn't it?
Necronic
Staff member
Missed this post. The thing is that for most organizations the so called "ideology" is mostly lip service. They will stand in outrage about a topic while subtly doing that exact thing when no one is looking. Ron Paul is a good example of that, complaining about wasteful government spending while appropriating more earmarks than almost any other republican. Or the whole "Subsidizing green energy is wrong as it props up an unprofitable business!" while also voting for subsidies for oil companies.
The ideological whitewash that so many politicians liberally paint on their platforms is just a way to bamboozle people too simple-minded to actually think about the complexities of political positions.
My problem with the libertarians is that I think they would actually vote ideologically instead of pragmatically, which is very dangerous.
GasBandit
Staff member
I think we're having two different conversations. What do you mean, here?
Scientists are so wishy-washy!
That could be. I often find that while the parties are both responsible for the stupidity in politics we can't paint all of the Senators/Congressmen with the same brush. You and I both know having a (D), (R), or even an (I) in front of the name doesn't usually mean they are a carbon copy of each other. Well, usually anyways.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, let's start over then. My original assertion was that
1) Americans are mostly idiots
2) There are a lot of people who identify as republicans when the libertarian party actually fits them better, but, see 1.
3) Necronic asserts that the underlying ideology of the libertarian party makes it impractical
4) I imply that the underlying ideology of both mainstream parties SHOULD make them just as untenable, but here we are.
I know I make a lot of Jack Johnson/John Jackson statements in general, but that wasn't where I was going with this particular discussion.
I see. You were going with the 'big tent' discussion.
GasBandit
Staff member
Don't even get me started on how toxic "big tents" are to government and liberty.
Necronic
Staff member
That was pretty strange wasn't it. I mean, he said it with such longing. Like an old lover remembering past times.
Hah! That's the vibe I got too! I thought at any moment he was going to start saying "These fucking guys, I tells ya".
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