Who do you think will win the GOP nomination?
- Thread starter Krisken
- Start date
- Status
Necronic
Staff member
See, that's the thing that is going to bite him in the butt a bit, and why he should only focus on the center. No matter what he does for the far left they will only focus on the negatives. Just for reference here's a list of his fairly left policy initiatives:
-Hate Crime Legislation
-Repeal of Dont Ask Don't Tell (mostly congress of course, but still)
-Lobby reform (although the waiver issue is a bit meh)
-Revoked Executive Order 12333 (which restricted access to government files)
-Removed troops from Iraq (although it took a while, but only an idiot would think it would be quick)
-Started the closing of Gitmo (taking forever because no-one wants them, but he started it on teh first day)
-Stated flat out that waterboarding etc was not acceptable
-Repealed Bush Stem Cell bans
-Federalized Student Loans
-Consumer Protection Act/Forming the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
....I feel like I'm missing one
OH YEAH THE HEALTH CARE OVERHAUL AND THE STIMULUS PACKAGE WHICH ARE TWO OF THE MOST LIBERAL THINGS TO COME OUT OF GOVERNMENT SINCE THE NEW DEAL.
He is one of the most active liberal presidents of all time. Hell he may BE the most activist liberal president of all time. Comparing him to bush because he has a harsh anti-whistle blower policy and because he expanded the extraordinary rendition to assassinations is completely myopic and self-serving.
I always have a hearty chortle when anyone says Obama is a liberal or too liberal.
The Stimulus Package which Bush originally implemented and consisted of tax breaks to the wealthy, TARP funds to the banks and a tax credit? Or the Health Care Overhaul which forces you to buy insurance (from big insurance companies no less) and penalizes you if you don't? Liberal I don't see.
GasBandit
Staff member
While I'm disappointed (but not surprised) the republicans are going the "social conservative FTW" route, I would also point out this was the first caucus, and as I've said at least twice before, not a reliable indicator of the eventual nominee. Santorum will probably feel his poll numbers slip as soon as the media starts focusing on him, just as has happened with every other not-Romney who pulled out in front.
As for the Liberalism of Obama, he wants to be more liberal but there's only so fast one can move in a given time. Yes, the ultra-left wackos are disappointed they didn't get single payer health care, but most of Obama's accomplishments have been in the area of increasing the size and power of the federal government. If you keep striving to make the federal government big enough, and make it the solution of first resort for any given problem, you wake up one morning in socialism without a revolution - and it's the kind of gradual change that is like pulling teeth to reverse.
I don't think anyone is saying the very first caucus is an indicator of who will be the nominee. However, it does cause certain people lagging from dropping, which influences later caucuses. Bachmann has already dropped out of the race. Where will her supporters go now? Will it boost Newt to compete with the top 3, or will they throw their vote behind one of the other candidates.
Also, keep in mind that a very small number of voters voted in the caucus (I think someone said something like 6% of voters).
Also, keep in mind that a very small number of voters voted in the caucus (I think someone said something like 6% of voters).
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, I have to say I think the only person who really thought Bachmann could win (or that it would be a good thing) was Laura Ingraham. Heh.
Necronic
Staff member
TARP != the Stimulus package, not even close. The American Recovery/Reinvestment act was Obama. Maybe I am missing something, did the Bush administration put it together? (not a troll question)
And yes, the health care bill forces people to buy health insurance, which is a pretty dumb way of doing things, but you weren't going to get single payer, period. If you are going to criticize Obama for not achieving single payer then you might as well criticize him for not miraculously ending world hunger with the wave of his wand (powered by the magical and fanciful desires of the unreasonable left)
-----------
Anyways, this run doesn't decide things of course, but it was a HUGE blow to Gingrich's campaign and likewise showed that the religious right are quite likely more interested in Santorum than Perry, which means that the Perry campaign is grasping at straws.
---------
Also Laura Inghram is a piece of human trash.
And, you know, her supporters. Otherwise they would have voted for someone else.
It's hilarious how effective the right wing is at moving the goalposts on political discourse, and making anything that isn't lock-step republican crazy wacky unable to ever happen liberal pipe dreams.
It's less how effective the right wing is than how impotent, ineffectual and limp-wristed the left wing is. The same thing in reverse could have been said of Canada for decades before our current Conservative government. In my opinion, societal change comes about not because of strong proponents, but of weak opponents.
Necronic
Staff member
That's true in some senses, I mean the health care bill that is currently considered by republicans to be the work of the devil was pretty close to what the republican's put out just about a decade ago. However, Charlie's case the goalposts are actually antenna sticking off of an alien's head over in the delta quadrant.
Truth is if you actually cared about the situation you would take the time to understand what realistic goals are and shoot for those. The greatest and most important advances in American history have been single point events that were lead up to by a long series of seemingly minor and conilliatory gains.
Truth is if you actually cared about the situation you would take the time to understand what realistic goals are and shoot for those. The greatest and most important advances in American history have been single point events that were lead up to by a long series of seemingly minor and conilliatory gains.
GasBandit
Staff member
Many on the right say the exact same thing with "right" and "left" reversed. Same goes for Charlie's "moving the goalposts" comment.
Necronic
Staff member
Exactly, same thing with saying that media has a liberal/conservative bias. I remember sitting in a rhetoric class in college and someone made a comment about there being a bias. I stopped and had everyone vote on whether they thought there was a liberal or conservative bias. Every conservative in the class said there was a liberal bias. Every liberal in the class said there was a conservative bias. And almost none of them understood the significance of that.
If they had been capable of understanding it wouldn't have come up in the 1st place...
Added at: 15:15
Added at: 15:15
Yes, like revolution and civil war...
When Newt said that "decent people" would not run for president when the media is so harsh... I would pay Ron Paul $300 to say...
"Decent people? Newt, I've worked with decent people, and you are not decent people."
"Decent people? Newt, I've worked with decent people, and you are not decent people."
- Status