WTF Wisconsin? (Formerly Walker convo thread)

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C

Chibibar

So... anyone taking odds on if the Governer puts a bounty on the missing Dems?
Well Warrant for arrest is pretty much a bounty of sort (relatively speaking). At this rate, I wouldn't be surprise the governor might call in FBI since the warrant are cross state line (since the dems are in Illinois or they they think they are)
 
Don't be surprised of the courts overturn it and declare Congress has overstepped it's boundaries. Besides, Walker isn't exactly currying any favors with the courts since he still hasn't followed the court order to open the state capitol building to the public.
 
What I don't get is that Texas's budget mess is as bad as Wisconsin's or any other state for that matter. But our failing is not as sexy as yours. After all Texas's budget is low, no income tax, companies are supposed to be flocking here, we are putting money away into a rainy-day fund... and yet they are going to lay of 1000's of state employees this year with only 6 months left on the year. And then likely bigger cuts in September.

Where is the liberal media when THIS is going on?
 
Don't be surprised of the courts overturn it and declare Congress has overstepped it's boundaries. Besides, Walker isn't exactly currying any favors with the courts since he still hasn't followed the court order to open the state capitol building to the public.
Esp. since the law is that they can't be arrested when "in session" (unless it's one of the items specified).

While I work in Madison (I live in one of the "suburbs"), I am far enough away from this that I don't have to deal with all of the people, other than the huge lines of people at the East Towne mall where they are busing protesters from there to downtown - and that's only if I go to the mall.
 
I am in awe. State Republicans are now ordering the arrest of the missing Democrats.

I don't think this is legal. There has been a lot of questionable things going on at our capitol, but this just takes the cake. We'll take that crazy crown now.
It doesn't matter if it's legal. Once someone brings them into the capital building, they can push the vote and deal with the consequences later, which would be minor to begin with. I highly doubt the Dems are going to find a judge that is going to overlook their own shenanigans just to overturn the vote.

I'm pretty sure there isn't a law covering being FORCED to participate in one of your job duties, unless you've quit before they try to force you. That's an idea though... the Democrats could quit their jobs if caught. I'm not sure how that would effect the vote though... would they need to run an election first to decide who gets the seat for the vote or would they proceed without them?

If anything happens out of all this stuff in Wisconsin, it's at the very least going to introduce at lot of interesting things into the lawbooks when it's all over.
 
There's something else at the bottom of all this: the reason why Walker wants to keep the unions from negotiating benefits.

My Pension. The Wisconsin Retirement System, to be precise. He wants to raid it.

(groan) I knew this was going to happen when all those pension scandals hit Milwaukee.
 
C

Chibibar

you know, is the GOP really really want to go this route? Of course I bet all those people who decides to "vote for the tea party" is probably regretting it now aren't they? The governor said that he is NOT removing collective bargaining (which is pretty much holding this whole bill up) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110304/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions
Personally if he didn't want to lay off people, remove the language, get the people back, and try to find a different way to save money. The people don't want it.
 
Maybe this will give an idea on how out of control this whole thing has become.

Taken from WISN, Channel 12 in Milwaukee- footage of Democratic Assemblyman Nick Milroy being tackled by police for trying to enter the building to retrieve clothing from his office. They didn't even give him a chance to pull out his ID.

 
Yikes - I drove home from work today and saw around 30 or so State Patrol cars either heading towards or otherwise near roads that were heading towards the capitol...
 
In the Republican stronghold Wauwatosa County, a townhall was abruptly canceled by Representative Jim Sensenbrenner because he felt the protesters were being disrespectful. Others disagree on this point.

FTA said:
However, the crowd never got out of control, some city staff members in attendance said. Instead, it seemed the elected officials just didn’t like the line of questioning and were on the defensive from the start.
After the crowd dispersed, some people hung around in the lobby to sign recall petitions.
 
Here is an account from a constituent's point of view.

The town hall was full of Walker supporters, and dissenters. And it was not unruly, it was just loud when the crowd was mistreated and terribly disrespected. It started out that way, and the Congressman and Senator were both rude from the start, assuming a battle would take place, and refusing, from the top, to use a microphone.
[W]e were not protestors; we were constituents who were told we'd have a meeting/conversation with out representatives. That's not what it was, and that was not the crowd's fault. They responded to what they were handed, and loudly disagreed at times.
As far as Sensenbrenner goes, he was grumpy from minute one, but turned on us when a questioner asked him about his relationship to oil companies and how we could trust that our tax payer dollars would be cared for if this were the case. That is where the change [in tone] took place. That is where the story should be.
The protestors were outside, yelling, the rest of the constituents were inside, wanting answers to their questions and receiving token talking points that too often had nothing to do with what they asked---that was the jeering, because we were being played and lied to. (Both reps made inaccurate statements and were being held accountable for that!)
Video of the event and when things started turning sour with the crowd. Beware videos that just show people chanting "Shame", those are meant to give a false impression of a volatile crowd. They didn't become loud until Sensenbrenner shut down the meeting.
 
Senator Bob Jauch's press release today- *Warning, VERY LONG*

Madison (Press Release) - I am doing my job in representing the citizens of northern Wisconsin who have overwhelmingly expressed opposition to Governor Walker's plan to eliminate collective bargaining. Thousands of citizens have contacted my office to oppose Governor Walker's plan and they have asked me to seek a solution. Statewide public opinion polls indicate that over 67% of the public strongly disapprove of his proposal.
My colleagues and I took the decision to leave the state seriously. We had to take unprecedented action to respond to the unprecedented and unjustified assault on workers rights. Our decision to leave the state was to slow down the process and allow the public a chance to better know the harmful consequences of the budget repair bill and provide the public a chance to engage in the deliberation process.
Since we left the state hundreds of thousands of citizens have traveled to Madison to voice their displeasure regarding the bill. The more the public knows about the legislation the stronger the opposition to the measure.
The Governor, Senate Democrats and the unions are in the heat of an agreement regarding the plan to increase pension and health care employee contribution. If Governor Walker is serious regarding the fiscal concerns of the state then he should accept our offer to adopt the fiscal matters that will save $845 million and remove the collective bargaining provisions that are so strongly opposed by the public.
Since Governor Walker introduced this legislation, I have talked with Republican lawmakers and former Thompson Cabinet officials every day to seek a pathway to find common ground. Those conversations revealed that 6 or 7 Republican Senators hated the collective bargaining provisions but felt pressured by Governor Walker to vote for the bill.
The reality is that there is a strong majority of legislators who don't want to get rid of collective bargaining but voted against the wishes of the constituents because they were compelled to vote with Governor Walker. Recently Representative Stone, a Republican candidate for Milwaukee County Executive, admitted that he voted for the budget repair bill but did not agree with getting rid of collective bargaining. I have spoken with a number of Republican representatives who voted for the bill and are hoping the Senate will adopt compromise language.
Yesterday Governor Walker said that he had been working day and night to find a solution to the issue. The fact is that he has held more press conferences blasting Democrats than there have been meetings. It took his Administration 18 days before a request was made for a meeting.
Last Wednesday evening my colleague and I received a call inviting us to a meeting in Kenosha with two members of his staff. Along with Senator Miller we met at 9:00 in Kenosha for an hour and half discussion.
We had a candid and professional conversation regarding several issues that may be concepts for an agreement, however, there was no agreement on either the process or the areas under consideration.
The following day I drafted some additional details for further discussion but upon receiving the memo my computer crashed as a result of a virus. I contacted his staff to call me so I could explain the memo. Unfortunately, they took it into Governor Walker and he held yet another press conference angrily denouncing the Democrats.
At my request the Governor's staff met Senator Cullen and I at a meeting in South Beloit to consider possible agreeable items. After our two hour discussion I sent them a summary of those items which I hoped would be the basis of an agreement.
Governor Walker's statement that Senator Cullen and I were working for an agreement so that he and I and a couple more legislators could come back to Wisconsin was an absolute lie. As leaders it is our obligation to find solutions to problems that constitute a win for the citizens of Wisconsin and Senator Cullen and I dedicated considerable time to meet that obligation. We had many conversations with his staff to indicate our desire to pursue solutions that would heal the deep divisions within the State Legislature and hopefully bind the wounds that divided Wisconsin.
Any serious leader does not negotiate contentious issues by press conference. His public announcement of what were supposed to be confidential discussions is a serious breach of faith. Furthermore, Governor Walker's identification of Senator Cullen and me was intended to use us as a wedge in public opinion and showed he was not seriously interested in achieving a meaningful solution.
An election determines winners and losers. Governing requires leadership by public officials to develop policies that are considered a win for the state. Wisconsin was the first state in the nation to offer collective bargaining for public employees and public opinion soundly opposes the effort to become the first state in the nation to eliminate collective bargaining.
The Archbishop of Milwaukee said it best, "hard times do not nullify the moral obligation each of us has to respect the legitimate rights of workers." As Pope Benedict wrote in his 2009 encyclical, Caritas in veritate:
Governments, for reasons of economic utility, often limit the freedom or the negotiating capacity of labor unions. Hence traditional networks of solidarity have more and more obstacles to overcome. The repeated calls issued within the Church's social doctrine, beginning with Rerum Novarum [60], for the promotion of workers' associations that can defend their rights must therefore be honored today even more than in the past, as a prompt and far-sighted response to the urgent need for new forms of cooperation at the international level, as well as the local level. [#25]
This has become a protracted fight about unions when we should not lose sight that the ultimate goal is to protect workers rights as a moral imperative. These hard working citizens contribute to the public good and should not be considered the public enemy. They are hard working teachers, bus drivers, prison guards, snowplow operators, nurses, firefighters, clerks, and police offers whose contributions to the commonwealth make Wisconsin a great state.
This is an historic moment. We didn't plan for it, but citizens have seized the opportunity to protect the values, traditions and rights that make Wisconsin special. I stand by my decision to leave Wisconsin to go to the Land of Lincoln to protect these values. When history records our time I wish to be on the right side of protecting workers and not on the wrong side of eliminating workers' rights.
I hope that the Governor and the Republicans will soon realize that their obligation is to listen to the overwhelming majority of the citizens of our wonderful state and not adhere to the rigid ideologues who don't care about good government in our state.
Wisconsin policies have always been a beacon to the rest of the nation. It is my hope that we can find a resolution that protects worker rights and taxpayer and preserves collective bargaining. Such an agreement can lead to unity instead of division and enable us to then work together to improve our economy and move Wisconsin forward.
 
You know whats interesting, I hear a lot of good arguments against the stuff Walker is trying to push through, but I really don't hear Walkers side putting forth any real argument except the whole "the state is going to go broke" thing. No nuance, no "here's why we have to stick to our guns" etc. Now maybe I'm missing it but so far Walker and his group seem to be really failing at presenting their side of this.
 
The thing is, he holds press releases every day. It's not like he hasn't had the opportunity to present his arguments to the concerns being made by his constituents.
 
Another first hand account of the events at the Town Hall in Waukeshaw.

My husband and I went to a town hall meeting with our representatives this evening at the Wauwatosa (WI) City Hall and Public Library, hosted by Congressman James Sensenbrenner (R, WI) with newly-elected Wisconsin State Senator Leah Vukmir. Some other youngster elected official was there - didn’t catch his name; not my district.

I spent yesterday and today researching and writing 5 questions from which I would choose should I be lucky enough to get the microphone. We left the house and arrived at the library one hour early to ensure good seats. We were met by a line of protestors outside the library with the usual array of anti-Walker signs. Lots of love for the Fab 14 and unions, even within this conservative Milwaukee suburb - Sensenbrenner's had a hold on this district forever. Ugh.
We went inside, and filled out little slips of paper with our name, address, and a box to indicate our desire to ask a question. At this table we were invited to pick up a copy of the Wisconsin Blue Book, and we then filed into the Firefly Room. This room was set up for an audience of about 70, with a table at the front, Poppa Jim already presiding with his gavel, but without a microphone. The youngster official chatted with the growing crowd, Leah Vukmir was nowhere to be seen, and more people crammed the room, until at 6:45 when Vukmir arrived and Poppa Jim banged his gavel to call the meeting to order.
[A quick aside here; several weeks ago, my husband attended a similar event in this same room, hosted by our democratic State Representative David Cullen. He had mics at the table and halfway down the center aisle of this same room, and discourse was polite, with honest discussion. Clearly discourse was tonight's goal from the git-go.]
A library staff person went to a microphone at a podium off to the side and informed us that library patrons were using the library above us and requested we use our library voices, while Poppa Jim silently sorted the question request sheets into two piles. At this point, I could hear the constant chant of “Kill the Bill” and “Recall Walker” from the protestors outdoors; a look around the room showed me that every seat was filled and people were standing all along the walls, in rows at the back, into the foyer of the library and beyond into the hallway connecting the library to City Hall. I would estimate there were about 200 people in attendance although they did not all fit into the room. There were likely many more if you count the protestors outside, but I couldn’t see them.
Poppa Jim opened the meeting after the library staffer left, and informed us that he would call people from his sheets for questions, and he had put the slips with Wauwatosa addresses into the priority pile; if time allowed, non-Tosa slips would then be called. During his opening statements, people at the back of the crowded room asked it he would use the microphone because they could not hear his un-amplified voice in the crowded space. He refused, banging his gavel and informing us that if we did not use our library voices he would close the meeting right then. This became his constant refrain.
The first questioner was called, and she went to the front of the room to use the microphone. Leah Vukmir’s response was inaudible to the back of the room. Again there were requests for the Representatives to use the microphone. Again, Poppa Jim refused. Several questioners in, the library staffer returned, and invited the Representatives to use the microphone in their responses as the questioners had used it for their questions. Perhaps someone sought her out in the hopes that she could coax our elected officials into using the microphone; in any event, it was the only "people's" success of the evening, forcing our elected officials to use a microphone which they clearly did not want to do.
So Poppa Jim and Leah Vukmir had to stand up to respond to questions each in their turn. The youngster did not answer any questions, nor were any directed to him. I am not sure anyone knew who he was. Any audience reaction to a question or its response was met with the pounding gavel and Poppa Jim’s reminder that he would close down the meeting if we misbehaved.
Meanwhile, the chanting outside grew, and the people inside became more restless and angry as each question was answered by the same talking points, or not answered at all. Suddenly my husband was called to the podium, and he asked the following question of Poppa Jim:
Firstly I want to thank you for your vote in the House to ban drilling for oil and gas in the Great Lakes. However, I have some questions about your relationship with oil companies as they relate to other votes you have cast.
Your personal stock portfolio has significant investments in BP and Exxon Mobil, and you receive thousands of dollars in support from oil and gas companies. You
consistently vote against drilling moratoria, against curbing carbon emissions and against alternative energy initiatives. You regularly vote to spend tax dollars on subsidies for oil and gas companies.
Fortune Magazine and other similar publications rank global oil companies among the most profitable corporations in the world.
Right now, Republicans in Congress are vowing to cut the budget deficit. Yet you voted NO on a bill that would have stopped $40 billion taxpayer dollars from going to subsidize the richest, most profitable companies on the planet, the big oil companies.
Last summer, the polling firm Rasmussen found that 70 percent of Americans believe members of Congress would be willing to sell their vote for cash or campaign contributions.
In light of those polling results, and your overall voting record, how am I to believe that you are not selling your vote for the support of these powerful industries? Why do you support spending taxpayer dollars to subsidize the most profitable corporations in the world, particularly at a time when everyone is asked to tighten their belts?​
Poppa Jim came to the microphone, delivered a speech on the evils of selling votes and how his BP stock wasn’t worth much anymore (boo hoo), then launched on a tirade against “cap and tax” - as he likes to call it - and how it would kill the midwest and cause our energy prices to soar! He did not, however, answer why cutting subsidies to big oil was off the table.
Then Poppa Jim called my name. I came to the mike, and said that while I had a series of questions I was eager to ask, I felt I had to follow up on the last response, because the congressman had not actually answered the question. Why did he feel it was an appropriate use of our tax dollars to give $40 billion to the richest, most profitable corporations on earth?
His response was that he felt that we got a good return on those dollars, and that without subsidies our gas prices would be through the roof.
After about 4 or 5 more questions, we were hearing the same old talking points, dishonesty and glad-handing of the issues. I don’t think anyone expected honest answers or even a conversation, but Poppa Jim anticipated the room’s anger, and made it his job to be the authoritarian and shut down any dialog or rebuttal. As Vukmir mouthed another talking chestnut such as "It is precisely because we care about our children and grandchildren that we have to do the heavy-lifting in order to get this deficit under control now..." one man, under his breath (but close to Poppa Jim) said, "why not just raise taxes?"
Poppa Jim, quite stern and authoritarian shouted, "Who said that?" as he looked towards the man. "I did!" the man shouted back. Poppa Jim, putting on his best baseball umpire voice, yelled "You're outta here!" The man shouted back, as he was leaving, "This is a DEMOCRACY, and we are sick of the way you people are conducting yourselves..." He was very articulate, and very, very angry. No one was using their library voice.
More questions were asked, more and more audible responses were aimed at the same old talking points, the needle dropping into the worn groove of a well-rehearsed script. Outside, the chants continued. Poppa Jim kept pounding his gavel like a mad carpenter, saying repeatedly "If I have to pound this gavel again, it will be to adjourn the meeting!".
He had to pound it at least a dozen more times, and finally did adjourn the meeting amidst cries of anger. Everyone jumped up and the room erupted in the "SHAME, SHAME, SHAME" chant. One man stepped up to the mic and began saying "see, this is what our democracy is coming to, this is the respect they have for the people..." and a tense and ropy wingnut commando ran up and pushed the man away, turning off the mic. A slight wrestling match ensued, though it fortunately didn't escalate beyond stupidity.
Poppa Jim and Leah Vukmir quickly and silently slipped from the room and left under police security. An impromptu rush to sign "recall Vukmir" database lists on sheets hastily torn from a legal pad began in the Library lobby. Her constituents were truly disgusted by her sing-song smily-faced dishonesty. The inside crowd joined the outside rally. Chants and honking horns rose into the night in our little Tosa Village City Hall and Public Library.
We went home strangely unsettled, feeling witness to the tense and intense immersive theatrics of performed discourse at these town hall meetings. In our post-Walker world, however, the politics of division which he has seeded have amplified the palpable anger of a waking and massive movement.
So a town hall which people just wanted answers turns into an impromptu recall signing.
 
Looks like he's caved:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/08/wisconsin-governor-proposes-union-compromise-e-mails/

The e-mails, some dated as recently as Sunday, show a softened stance in Walker's talks with the 14 Democrats who object to his original proposal that would strip nearly all collective bargaining rights for public workers and force concessions amounting to an average 8 percent pay cut. Republicans, who control the Senate, can't vote on the budget measure unless at least one Democrat is present.
Under the compromise floated by Walker and detailed in the e-mails, workers would be able to continue bargaining over their salaries with no limit, a change from his original plan that banned negotiated salary increases beyond inflation. He also proposed compromises allowing collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.
 
We'll see if that is enough for the Democrats. I know they are quite upset with Walker for his disrespectful press conferences. Things that should have been civil and private were spread around. Wisconsin has a history of doing things in a respectful way, and when someone crosses the line they don't often get a second chance.
 
I really wish it would, JW. It's sad to see these public sector jobs being sacrificed in order to make a push for private sector contracts. I'm pulling for ya man, and I hope you find something soon.
 
Holy shit, it has hit the fan. Republicans in Senate stripped the anti-union language from the budget stuff in the bill and made it a separate bill. They voted on it in the same night (tonight) and passed it 18 to 1 (with the Democrats in Illinois). Talk is that it might not be legal since bills have to have 24 hours before they can be voted on.

Protesters have stormed the capitol building. Police have backed away, the Mayor has said Capitol Police will NOT be involved in trying to remove people from the capitol building. Fire trucks are circling the building with their sirens blaring.

If people didn't take the recall efforts seriously before, they better now.


Additional reports saying that businesses who donated to Walker are expected to suffer. Rumors persist of people who bank with M&I bank are expected to show up tomorrow and remove their money from the institution. Lists of businesses who sided with the governor are being distributed as we speak.
 
I'm just... well, it's just that... Oh crap. This stuff NEVER happens... Good God, I'm speechless.

This is a 21-facepalm moment for this state.

Oh, meanwhile, this just in: I'm still scheduled to be unemployed on July 1st.
 
This isn't supposed to happen here. This is the kind of crap a Mubarak, Marcos, or Pinochet would pull. Not a sitting US governor.
 
This isn't supposed to happen here. This is the kind of crap a Mubarak, Marcos, or Pinochet would pull. Not a sitting US governor.
:Leyla:

I hate it too, but don't you think it's a bit of an exaggeration when you compare Walker to someone who has committed torture and genocide?
 
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