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WTF Wisconsin? (Formerly Walker convo thread)

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Feb 23, 2011#1

Krisken

Governor Walker had a candid conversation with someone from The Beast who posed as David Koch of Koch Industries. Extremely candid.

Some frightening bits?

conversation said:
Koch: Now who can we get to budge on this collective bargaining?
Walker: …I think the paycheck will have an impact…secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next…we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state. We think there’s at minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.
Koch: Well, they’re probably putting hobos in suits

Conversation said:
Walker: …I’ve got layoff notices ready…
Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. Gotta crush that union.
Walker: …I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly…legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum…so we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capital with all 14 of them…

conversation said:
Koch: We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.
Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this…[explains that planting troublemakers may not work.] My only fear would be if there’s a ruckus caused is that maybe the governor has to settle to solve all these problems…Let ‘em protest all they want…Sooner or later the media stops finding it interesting.

conversation said:
Koch: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: once you crush these bastards I’ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time.
Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. Thanks for all the support…it’s all about getting our freedoms back…
Koch: Absolutely. And, you know, we have a little bit of a vested interest as well. [Laughs]
Walker: Thanks a million!

Pretty scary stuff.

Feb 23, 2011#2

Chibibar

I am not surprise. This is politics after all. I am sure the governor is looking at all options to get this bill passed legally even with some trickery (hey the Federal did it on Health Care bill

)

Feb 23, 2011#3

Dave

In the conversations posted, I don't see anything wrong. He was obviously humoring him on the last one and in the others he outright said he wouldn't do anything immoral. Did he say they discussed it? Yup. But I'll bet it wasn't his idea. Sounds to me like an aide suggested it and he shot it down because of the potential problems.

Am I missing something?

Feb 23, 2011#4

Espy

Dave said:
In the conversations posted, I don't see anything wrong. He was obviously humoring him on the last one and in the others he outright said he wouldn't do anything immoral. Did he say they discussed it? Yup. But I'll bet it wasn't his idea. Sounds to me like an aide suggested it and he shot it down because of the potential problems.

Am I missing something?

Yeah as far as "corrupt" and "evil" politicians go this isn't exactly a few hundred thousand hiding in your freezer.

Feb 23, 2011#5

sixpackshaker

He's being a little underhanded with his public points about destroying employee rights, and what he tells his financial backers. Which pretty much plays into what the unions have been screaming, it is about a power play and not the budget.

Feb 23, 2011#6

Necronic

Well the "Koch" fake is really going over the top trying to come across as Evil Empire, and the Gov isn't really biting, but is trying to act polite to a powerful constituent. Nothing to see here other than poor journalistic integrity. Got to love that: "omg cops used entrapment!" then...."Well its ok if we use entrapment. that's different."

Feb 23, 2011#7

DarkAudit

Necronic said:
Well the "Koch" fake is really going over the top trying to come across as Evil Empire, and the Gov isn't really biting, but is trying to act polite to a powerful constituent. Nothing to see here other than poor journalistic integrity. Got to love that: "omg cops used entrapment!" then...."Well its ok if we use entrapment. that's different."

Yes it's perfectly fine. The rules are different between a court of law and the "court of public opinion". Illegally obtained evidence can be thrown out of court, but what has been said cannot be unsaid.

So you can't convict a guy for being a total douche, but you can certainly shout it to the high heavens.

Feb 23, 2011#8

Dave

If you listen to the actual conversation, the mayor really sounds like he's trying to frame his answers so that he doesn't offend the ally but lets him know that he's not going to do anything illegal.

I think the mayor comes out better in this one.

Feb 23, 2011#9

Krisken

I really did listen to the conversation. He still sounds like a douche.

Feb 23, 2011#10

Ravenpoe

Dave said:
If you listen to the actual conversation, the mayor really sounds like he's trying to frame his answers so that he doesn't offend the ally but lets him know that he's not going to do anything illegal.

I think the mayor comes out better in this one.

Krisken said:
I really did listen to the conversation. He still sounds like a douche.

You're both right.

Feb 23, 2011#11

Necronic

DarkAudit said:
Yes it's perfectly fine. The rules are different between a court of law and the "court of public opinion". Illegally obtained evidence can be thrown out of court, but what has been said cannot be unsaid.

So you can't convict a guy for being a total douche, but you can certainly shout it to the high heavens.

Of course its legal. Its simply incredibly unethical. A journalist can't make the story. Period.

Feb 24, 2011#12

DarkAudit

Necronic said:
Of course its legal. Its simply incredibly unethical. A journalist can't make the story. Period.

The ghost of Richard Nixon smiled when you said that.

Feb 24, 2011#13

Krisken

Keep in mind that Wisconsin has very strict Code of Ethics rules.

Wisconsin Code of Ethics said:
19.45 Standards of conduct; state public officials. (1) The legislature hereby
reaffirms that a state public official holds his or her position as a public trust, and
any effort to realize substantial personal gain through official conduct is a violation
of that trust. This subchapter does not prevent any state public official from
accepting other employment or following any pursuit which in no way interferes
with the full and faithful discharge of his or her duties to this state. The
legislature further recognizes that in a representative democracy, the
representatives are drawn from society and, therefore, cannot and should not be
without all personal and economic interest in the decisions and policies of
government; that citizens who serve as state public officials retain their rights as
citizens to interests of a personal or economic nature; that standards of ethical
conduct for state public officials need to distinguish between those minor and
inconsequential conflicts that are unavoidable in a free society, and those
conflicts which are substantial and material; and that state public officials may
need to engage in employment, professional or business activities, other than
official duties, in order to support themselves or their families and to maintain a
continuity of professional or business activity, or may need to maintain investments,
which activities or investments do not conflict with the specific provisions
of this subchapter.
(2) No state public official may use his or her public position or office to obtain
financial gain or anything of substantial value for the private benefit of himself or
herself or his or her immediate family, or for an organization with which he or she
is associated. This subsection does not prohibit a state public official from using
the title or prestige of his or her office to obtain contributions permitted and
reported as required by ch. 11.
(3) No person may offer or give to a state public official, directly or indirectly,
and no state public official may solicit or accept from any person, directly or indirectly, anything of value if it could reasonably be expected to influence the state
public official’s vote, official actions or judgment, or could reasonably be considered
as a reward for any official action or inaction on the part of the state public
official. This subsection does not prohibit a state public official from engaging
in outside employment.

Full Ethics document at wi.gov
We don't put up with this bullshit here in Wisconsin. Might be due to being an hour away from Chicago.

Feb 24, 2011#14

@Li3n

Krisken said:
I really did listen to the conversation. He still sounds like a douche.

He's a politician... how else would he sound?

Feb 24, 2011#15

Covar

Necronic said:
Well the "Koch" fake is really going over the top trying to come across as Evil Empire, and the Gov isn't really biting, but is trying to act polite to a powerful constituent. Nothing to see here other than poor journalistic integrity. Got to love that: "omg cops used entrapment!" then...."Well its ok if we use entrapment. that's different."

I keep thinking of Joe the Plumber here personally. Based on what we were told about that everything Governor Walker has said to the fake should be immediately discarded and ignored.

Feb 24, 2011#16

DarkAudit

Krisken said:
Keep in mind that Wisconsin has very strict Code of Ethics rules.

Full Ethics document at wi.gov
We don't put up with this bullshit here in Wisconsin. Might be due to being an hour away from Chicago.

I've said it before. I really wish Mike Royko was still alive. I bet his ghost is just screaming for a typewriter right now.

Feb 24, 2011#17

Necronic

DarkAudit said:
The ghost of Richard Nixon smiled when you said that.

The watergate scandal was uncovered by the journalists. The journalists did not go to Nixxon and say "Hey, you know what would be a good idea?

I'm seriously confused how yall can see entrapment as an acceptal journalistic tool.

Feb 24, 2011#18

SpecialKO

Yeah, I'm with Necro. It's kind of funny, but this doesn't really mean a thing with the way those questions are phrased. I'm reminded of Colbert getting a guy to openly declare support for hookers and blow.

Feb 24, 2011#19

Krisken

I'm trying to see where I said the guys methods were ok. If I gave that impression, it was not what I intended. It's on par with that idiot who dressed as a pimp to set up Acorn, tbh.

Feb 24, 2011#20

Chibibar

Krisken said:
I'm trying to see where I said the guys methods were ok. If I gave that impression, it was not what I intended. It's on par with that idiot who dressed as a pimp to set up Acorn, tbh.

that is exactly what I was thinking.

Of course it is any better than undercover agent trying to incite terrorism and arrest people for it either.

Feb 24, 2011#21

sixpackshaker

Entrapment sucks.

But really, I was just offering the young police woman a ride!

Feb 24, 2011#22

Krisken

The Madison Police Chief wants to know to what extend planting trouble makers in the crowd was discussed.

Feb 28, 2011#23

jwhouk

Krisken: you forgot to add the disclaimer for those of us who aren't cheeseheads.

THIS ISN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN WISCONSIN.

For God knows HOW many years, stuff like this happened below the border in Illinois - corrupt politician after corrupt politician. And we sat up here all smug, saying, "That sort of stuff doesn't happen in America's Dairyland!"

And now, I'm planning on signing a recall of Koch's buddy in November. (State law: an elected official cannot be the subject of a recall until the end of their first year in office.)

(EDIT: Oh. I see you did post the ethics statute. Thanks.)

Added at: 00:26

Dave said:
If you listen to the actual conversation, the GOVERNOR really sounds like he's trying to frame his answers so that he doesn't offend the ally but lets him know that he's not going to do anything illegal.

I think the GOVERNOR comes out better in this one.

FTFY - and hopefully that colors your viewpoint, Dave. This guy isn't the mayor of some podunk city in the Midwest - HE'S THE FREAKIN' GOVERNOR OF A STATE.

Feb 28, 2011#24

Krisken

New development-
Walker just kicked Sheriff + Police Chief off Capitol command team + put Fitzgerald from State Patrol in charge.

Name sound familiar? It might, since the name Fitzgerald is the last name of the Senate Majority Leader of Wisconsin.

Feb 28, 2011#25

AshburnerX

I take it this is because the police wouldn't break up the protest? I wonder what's going to happen when/if the new guy in charge tries to do it, only to find that the police who joined the protest are blocking them... will the blue wall shatter or will they stop their advance?

Regardless, Walker has all but guaranteed that he's going to be a single term Gov, and that's only assuming he's not removed in a recall election.

Feb 28, 2011#26

SpecialKO

Krisken said:
New development-
Walker just kicked Sheriff + Police Chief off Capitol command team + put Fitzgerald from State Patrol in charge.

Name sound familiar? It might, since the name Fitzgerald is the last name of the Senate Majority Leader of Wisconsin.

While I could google the name, Krisken, I'm lazy at night. Can you provide a brief summary of the particulars?

Feb 28, 2011#27

Krisken

I'm working on it. The major news organizations have been excruciatingly slow reporting this stuff. I'll keep trying to find out how they are related (so far fringe sources are saying there is a familial relation.. but we know how reliable that can be).
Added at: 20:27
Fringe sources (yeah, I know) are saying that Stephen Fitzgerald has been put in charge of the Capitol command team. He is the father of Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald. Governor Scott Walker recently put Stephen Fitzgerald in charge of the State Patrol.

The best source so far.. hoping for better as the news cycle refreshes.

Feb 28, 2011#28

Krisken

Somebody should start the damn lawsuits.

Madison.com said:
Capitol Police kept more than 1,000 protestors at bay Monday, locking down the statehouse and allowing only a few dozen inside to meet with lawmakers.
Officials with the Department of Administration said they closed the Capitol to help with the cleaning of the building and could not open the doors to the public because some protestors inside the rotunda refused to limit their activities to the ground floor.
The decision seemed to run counter to Capitol tradition and the spirit of the state Constitution, which says officials cannot prohibit individuals from entering the Capitol or its grounds. Those gathered outside were not happy.

Feb 28, 2011#29

jwhouk

Oh, we already have. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117079073.html

WSEU files unfair labor practices against the State

Mar 1, 2011#30

AshburnerX

I'm going to laugh if whatever gain they would have made up for doing this is lost due to lawsuits they incurred.

Mar 1, 2011#31

jwhouk

"They" meaning the state? Because I hate to say this, but the WSEU essentially has nothing to lose by suing the state right now.

Mar 1, 2011#32

AshburnerX

jwhouk said:
"They" meaning the state? Because I hate to say this, but the WSEU essentially has nothing to lose by suing the state right now.

That's true. I mean... how can the Governor claim that the law is on their side in this? Even if he passes his union busting measure, it doesn't retroactively change the fact that he's ignoring his other legal duty to negotiate the contract. You can't pass a law after you do something illegal to make what you did legal. The original act would still be against the law.

Mar 1, 2011#33

sixpackshaker

What is going to happen when the Gov breaks collective bargaining? 1,000 levels of pay according to which primary you voted in last summer? One job, one pay + experience pay. It also would be a good way to make sure you can still pay men more than women for the same job.

Mar 1, 2011#34

Krisken

Well, so much for locking protesters out. Judge orders the capitol building must be open to protesters during normal business hours.

Mar 1, 2011#35

Chibibar

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110301/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions
Wow. Why is education is first to be cut? I guess people who can read is bad for government (hence the protest!) *eyes roll*

Mar 1, 2011#36

AshburnerX

Chibibar said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110301/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions
Wow. Why is education is first to be cut? I guess people who can read is bad for government (hence the protest!) *eyes roll*

People who can read ARE bad for the government. The poor literacy has already begone! Just as Walker planned!

Mar 1, 2011#37

Krisken

Courtesy of Crono...

You know that big stink made by Fox that one of their reporters was allegedly punched in the arm?Turns out didn't happen.

Mar 1, 2011#38

jwhouk

My life just got turned upside down.

Mar 1, 2011#39

Tress

Chibibar said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110301/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions
Wow. Why is education is first to be cut? I guess people who can read is bad for government (hence the protest!) *eyes roll*

Because kids don't vote, so slashing money that affects them is easy. And because somewhere along the line teachers became convenient scapegoats.

Mar 1, 2011#40

Krisken

I thought that asshole campaigned on bringing jobs to Wisconsin, not eliminating the ones that are left.
Added at: 18:57
Christ, where are my manners?

My condolences, jwhouk. This is a miserable way to find out.

Mar 1, 2011#41

jwhouk

It's Margaret Carpenter's fault.

Mar 1, 2011#42

Krisken

Who is Margaret Carpenter?

Mar 1, 2011#43

Espy

Krisken said:
My condolences, jwhouk. This is a miserable way to find out.

Agreed. I'm really sorry to hear that man.

Mar 1, 2011#44

Tress

Wait, what? What happened?

Mar 1, 2011#45

Iaculus

Seems the juvie facility he was working at is scheduled to close.

Condolences, man, and best of luck in finding another job.

Mar 1, 2011#46

jwhouk

Margaret Carpenter is the director of the Division of Juvenile Corrections. She was the driving force behind the whole Juvenile Corrections committee back in April of last year that sought to close a facility. She is still the division administrator, even though this is in a (supposedly) temporary manner. She was vehemently against us remaining open, despite a great deal of capital improvements made to the facility.

She apparently convinced Walker that EAS (where I work) should be closed. However, it appears that she couldn't convince him to keep SOGS open as well.

I have no idea when this will all play out. I might be out of work within three months time.
Added at: 04:26
There is that matter of those 14 Democratic Senators, of course. They could theoretically stay out of the state until January - when a recall election of Governor Walker could take place. The state would go into financial chaos, though.
Added at: 04:34
Last thing before I go wallow in sorrow in bed: Theoretically, I should be able to find a position elsewhere in the state service. There are some openings in a few other state facilities, but they're quite a distance from where I live right now.

Mar 2, 2011#47

jwhouk

Taken from another forum which I frequent, regarding Scott Walker:

Dude's probably had the fastest turnaround from election to national villain in history.

Mar 2, 2011#48

AshburnerX

Which brings up an interesting point... just how long until WI can hold a recall election for this guy? And, more to the point, can it be done without the missing senate members? Because I'm pretty sure that, if they need to be there, it's not going to happen until after Walker drops this issue.

Mar 2, 2011#49

SpecialKO

Sorry to hear about your troubles, jwhouk. Good luck!

Mar 2, 2011#50

Krisken

One year, Ashburner. Wisconsin elected officials have to be in office one year before a recall election can be held. However, people are already petitioning for it and getting databases ready to do this.

Mar 2, 2011#51

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
One year, Ashburner. Wisconsin elected officials have to be in office one year before a recall election can be held. However, people are already petitioning for it and getting databases ready to do this.

How long has he been in office? 2 months?

Mar 2, 2011#52

Krisken

AshburnerX said:
How long has he been in office? 2 months?

Pretty much. For some reason he thinks being voted in with 52% of the vote is a mandate of the people.
Added at: 10:14
Fox News has been on a roll making crap up and creating misinformation on the protests in Madison.

Check out the palm trees and lack of snow in the clip. This is actually from a protest in California.

Mar 2, 2011#53

Chibibar

Ok. So far this Governor is just slashing stuff that are kids related.
Correction facility to help kids with issues = closed
Budget for school and education = slashed.
Gee. What a track record.

Mar 2, 2011#54

Krisken

Staff member's account of yesterdays events at the state Capitol building.

This is how the events playing out in the Wisconsin State Capitol on Monday looked according to one staffer in the building. The person submitted this to me, and I will honor the request to not release the person’s name…for obvious reasons.
I come into work this morning, using my employee ID to get in (been that way for a while.)
What I learn once arriving is that the elevators have ALL been shut down and no one is allowed to go up above the ground floor (I guess for people who… have stayed the night -who are ALL being compliant, in my opinion) unless you have an employer ID or are escorted by a legislative staff member to the upper floors.
Police of all types stationed at every stairwell.
And then I realize that the building is in lockout mode.
The King St. entrance looks like it is prepared to receive the “raucous” visitors: long tables set out with plastic tubs – just like at the airport, but smaller – serving the same purpose: to hold coins, keys, metals of any type – metal detection wands at the ready.
But nothing is happening.
No one is entering the building.
It went on like this for hours. I asked the random police to ask what was happening, but no one seemed to know, or say. I truly believe that they did not know what was happening. It is a state of confusion now.
All of a sudden, at about 1:45pm, (keeping in mind that normal business hours on a weekday are 8am – 6pm), one center-revolving door lets in the light, and they are very slowly and cautiously allowing people to enter. Apparently, the Dem. Assembly members have called a public hearing on this “repair” bill. The law dictates that this bldg. is open for public hearings.
The thing is, a citizen of this state couldn’t just come in and get to the hearing as on any other day. One had to acquire a “legislative pass” in order to enter this meeting. Having learned this piece of news, and never had heard of such a thing, I called a couple of other representative’s offices to ask what this is, where to get one. They had never heard of such a thing, either.
As things were changing from moment to moment and no one still had answers, a State Trooper told me that these passes were being given out at the entrance (inside). So I go to this entrance, and there is a Trooper giving out sticky tags, upon which were obviously computer generated, quick-to-the-get tags that read something like, “Legislative Hearing” with today’s date. But he had a total of four sheets with ten tags each.
40 legislative passes.
There must have been hundreds of people outside waiting to get in.
After people spoke their minds at the hearing, they were escorted out of the building by police.
Within the past couple of days, and I’m not sure when this was exactly instated, food was prohibited from being brought into the capitol- all those pizzas from Uganda to waste. (Except for last night, when my new hero, Charles Tubbs) the Chief of Cap Police allowed the protesters to stay the night.
In fact, everyday, there have been more and more restrictions as to what a person can bring in or where they can go – or pee.
As a last resort – and I am privy to the fact – that people on the outside have delivered food and meds to people on the inside through windows on the ground floor offices or restrooms.
Well now, the restroom windows, as of today, have all (including the first floor, which is one level up) have been secured shut with screws on either side of the windows, rendering them impossible to open, the screw heads lopped off. I witnessed the maintenance dudes who were told to do this.
It sickens me to see this happen at our capitol. I love this building and all that it stands for.
People from around this earth visit here, and have always been especially impressed, not only for its beauty, friendliness, and the especially important fact that it is (has been) so accessible to the public.
9/11/01 was a workday at the Capitol for me. The following weeks of that horrible event lead to a less scrutinizing of public access to this building than what is happening now.
When I saw the thousands of fourth graders on their annual springtime tours, I would stop when I could and make it a point to say that, “This is YOUR house”. That IS (or was) what this building was built for.
And now I feel I can’t honestly say that anymore.

Yes, you read that right. They screwed the windows shut and cut the heads off.

Mar 2, 2011#55

Chibibar

so basically, they are trying to drive people out of the building via shutting down the system? (bathroom, food and water)

edit: Can the government actually do that? Isn't that against fire marshal code?

Mar 2, 2011#56

sixpackshaker

I wonder how long it will take for him to call in the National Guard to drive these rioters out.

Mar 2, 2011#57

Krisken

What rioters?

Mar 2, 2011#58

sixpackshaker

Krisken said:
What rioters?

The ones they keep showing on Faux News.

Mar 2, 2011#59

Krisken

Yeah, it's a shame the Madison Police Department doesn't follow Rupert Murdoch's memos. Really messes up their narrative.

Mar 2, 2011#60

AshburnerX

And so it begins: Wisconsin Voters launch recall campaign against 8 GOP senators. God speed, name gatherers.

Mar 2, 2011#61

Krisken

I should probably check if any of mine are on there...

Mar 2, 2011#62

jwhouk

I already sent a nastygram to my state senator.

I doubt that he's on the list, since I live in GOP-held Waukesha County.

Mar 2, 2011#63

Krisken

Yeah, we're just as bad here in Washington County.

Mar 2, 2011#64

Krisken

Democratic Assembly members are setting up their desks outside the capitol building so they can meet up with people being denied access to the building.

Mar 2, 2011#65

jwhouk

Krisken, let's face it: our state has gone stark raving mad.

Mar 2, 2011#66

Krisken

It's a shame, too. We spent so long being even keeled and reasonable. It's sad to see the state get flushed own the tea party toilet with little sense left behind.

On the bright side, we may get that crazy crown. Maybe we need to mandate that children wear tracking devices or put meth in the water before we can win that crown.

Mar 3, 2011#67

Krisken

I am in awe. State Republicans are now ordering the arrest of the missing Democrats.

I don't think this is legal. There has been a lot of questionable things going on at our capitol, but this just takes the cake. We'll take that crazy crown now.

Mar 3, 2011#68

Chibibar

Krisken said:
I am in awe. State Republicans are now ordering the arrest of the missing Democrats.

I don't think this is legal. There has been a lot of questionable things going on at our capitol, but this just takes the cake. We'll take that crazy crown now.

but but.... the GOP lawyers said it was......
How is it legal?
"so if you can't negotiate? intimidate!!" the new Wisconsin GOP Mantra?

Mar 3, 2011#69

Krisken

Honestly, Chibi, this one gives me chills. The Republican Senators and the Governor have pretty much flipped off the states charter at this point. I only hope someone comes up with a way to stop this abuse of power they have been displaying.

Mar 3, 2011#70

drifter

So... anyone taking odds on if the Governer puts a bounty on the missing Dems?

Mar 3, 2011#71

Chibibar

drifter said:
So... anyone taking odds on if the Governer puts a bounty on the missing Dems?

Well Warrant for arrest is pretty much a bounty of sort (relatively speaking). At this rate, I wouldn't be surprise the governor might call in FBI since the warrant are cross state line (since the dems are in Illinois or they they think they are)

Mar 3, 2011#72

Krisken

Don't be surprised of the courts overturn it and declare Congress has overstepped it's boundaries. Besides, Walker isn't exactly currying any favors with the courts since he still hasn't followed the court order to open the state capitol building to the public.

Mar 3, 2011#73

sixpackshaker

What I don't get is that Texas's budget mess is as bad as Wisconsin's or any other state for that matter. But our failing is not as sexy as yours. After all Texas's budget is low, no income tax, companies are supposed to be flocking here, we are putting money away into a rainy-day fund... and yet they are going to lay of 1000's of state employees this year with only 6 months left on the year. And then likely bigger cuts in September.

Where is the liberal media when THIS is going on?

Mar 3, 2011#74

ncts_dodge_man

Krisken said:
Don't be surprised of the courts overturn it and declare Congress has overstepped it's boundaries. Besides, Walker isn't exactly currying any favors with the courts since he still hasn't followed the court order to open the state capitol building to the public.

Esp. since the law is that they can't be arrested when "in session" (unless it's one of the items specified).

While I work in Madison (I live in one of the "suburbs"), I am far enough away from this that I don't have to deal with all of the people, other than the huge lines of people at the East Towne mall where they are busing protesters from there to downtown - and that's only if I go to the mall.

Mar 3, 2011#75

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
I am in awe. State Republicans are now ordering the arrest of the missing Democrats.

I don't think this is legal. There has been a lot of questionable things going on at our capitol, but this just takes the cake. We'll take that crazy crown now.

It doesn't matter if it's legal. Once someone brings them into the capital building, they can push the vote and deal with the consequences later, which would be minor to begin with. I highly doubt the Dems are going to find a judge that is going to overlook their own shenanigans just to overturn the vote.

I'm pretty sure there isn't a law covering being FORCED to participate in one of your job duties, unless you've quit before they try to force you. That's an idea though... the Democrats could quit their jobs if caught. I'm not sure how that would effect the vote though... would they need to run an election first to decide who gets the seat for the vote or would they proceed without them?

If anything happens out of all this stuff in Wisconsin, it's at the very least going to introduce at lot of interesting things into the lawbooks when it's all over.

Mar 3, 2011#76

sixpackshaker

Run away congresses have happened before. That's how they know it works.

Mar 3, 2011#77

jwhouk

There's something else at the bottom of all this: the reason why Walker wants to keep the unions from negotiating benefits.

My Pension. The Wisconsin Retirement System, to be precise. He wants to raid it.

(groan) I knew this was going to happen when all those pension scandals hit Milwaukee.

Mar 4, 2011#78

Chibibar

you know, is the GOP really really want to go this route? Of course I bet all those people who decides to "vote for the tea party" is probably regretting it now aren't they? The governor said that he is NOT removing collective bargaining (which is pretty much holding this whole bill up) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110304/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions
Personally if he didn't want to lay off people, remove the language, get the people back, and try to find a different way to save money. The people don't want it.

Mar 4, 2011#79

Krisken

Maybe this will give an idea on how out of control this whole thing has become.

Taken from WISN, Channel 12 in Milwaukee- footage of Democratic Assemblyman Nick Milroy being tackled by police for trying to enter the building to retrieve clothing from his office. They didn't even give him a chance to pull out his ID.

Mar 4, 2011#80

ncts_dodge_man

Yikes - I drove home from work today and saw around 30 or so State Patrol cars either heading towards or otherwise near roads that were heading towards the capitol...

Mar 7, 2011#81

Krisken

Whatever you may be hearing from Fox News, the people of Wisconsin are not happy with the idea of a compromise in regards to collective bargaining.

Mar 8, 2011#82

Krisken

In the Republican stronghold Wauwatosa County, a townhall was abruptly canceled by Representative Jim Sensenbrenner because he felt the protesters were being disrespectful. Others disagree on this point.

FTA said:
However, the crowd never got out of control, some city staff members in attendance said. Instead, it seemed the elected officials just didn’t like the line of questioning and were on the defensive from the start.
After the crowd dispersed, some people hung around in the lobby to sign recall petitions.

Mar 8, 2011#83

DarkAudit

Big Oil's performing monkey didn't like being called out as such, so he took his ball and went home.

Mar 8, 2011#84

Krisken

Here is an account from a constituent's point of view.

The town hall was full of Walker supporters, and dissenters. And it was not unruly, it was just loud when the crowd was mistreated and terribly disrespected. It started out that way, and the Congressman and Senator were both rude from the start, assuming a battle would take place, and refusing, from the top, to use a microphone.
[W]e were not protestors; we were constituents who were told we'd have a meeting/conversation with out representatives. That's not what it was, and that was not the crowd's fault. They responded to what they were handed, and loudly disagreed at times.
As far as Sensenbrenner goes, he was grumpy from minute one, but turned on us when a questioner asked him about his relationship to oil companies and how we could trust that our tax payer dollars would be cared for if this were the case. That is where the change [in tone] took place. That is where the story should be.
The protestors were outside, yelling, the rest of the constituents were inside, wanting answers to their questions and receiving token talking points that too often had nothing to do with what they asked---that was the jeering, because we were being played and lied to. (Both reps made inaccurate statements and were being held accountable for that!)

Video of the event and when things started turning sour with the crowd. Beware videos that just show people chanting "Shame", those are meant to give a false impression of a volatile crowd. They didn't become loud until Sensenbrenner shut down the meeting.

Mar 8, 2011#85

Krisken

Senator Bob Jauch's press release today- *Warning, VERY LONG*

Madison (Press Release) - I am doing my job in representing the citizens of northern Wisconsin who have overwhelmingly expressed opposition to Governor Walker's plan to eliminate collective bargaining. Thousands of citizens have contacted my office to oppose Governor Walker's plan and they have asked me to seek a solution. Statewide public opinion polls indicate that over 67% of the public strongly disapprove of his proposal.
My colleagues and I took the decision to leave the state seriously. We had to take unprecedented action to respond to the unprecedented and unjustified assault on workers rights. Our decision to leave the state was to slow down the process and allow the public a chance to better know the harmful consequences of the budget repair bill and provide the public a chance to engage in the deliberation process.
Since we left the state hundreds of thousands of citizens have traveled to Madison to voice their displeasure regarding the bill. The more the public knows about the legislation the stronger the opposition to the measure.
The Governor, Senate Democrats and the unions are in the heat of an agreement regarding the plan to increase pension and health care employee contribution. If Governor Walker is serious regarding the fiscal concerns of the state then he should accept our offer to adopt the fiscal matters that will save $845 million and remove the collective bargaining provisions that are so strongly opposed by the public.
Since Governor Walker introduced this legislation, I have talked with Republican lawmakers and former Thompson Cabinet officials every day to seek a pathway to find common ground. Those conversations revealed that 6 or 7 Republican Senators hated the collective bargaining provisions but felt pressured by Governor Walker to vote for the bill.
The reality is that there is a strong majority of legislators who don't want to get rid of collective bargaining but voted against the wishes of the constituents because they were compelled to vote with Governor Walker. Recently Representative Stone, a Republican candidate for Milwaukee County Executive, admitted that he voted for the budget repair bill but did not agree with getting rid of collective bargaining. I have spoken with a number of Republican representatives who voted for the bill and are hoping the Senate will adopt compromise language.
Yesterday Governor Walker said that he had been working day and night to find a solution to the issue. The fact is that he has held more press conferences blasting Democrats than there have been meetings. It took his Administration 18 days before a request was made for a meeting.
Last Wednesday evening my colleague and I received a call inviting us to a meeting in Kenosha with two members of his staff. Along with Senator Miller we met at 9:00 in Kenosha for an hour and half discussion.
We had a candid and professional conversation regarding several issues that may be concepts for an agreement, however, there was no agreement on either the process or the areas under consideration.
The following day I drafted some additional details for further discussion but upon receiving the memo my computer crashed as a result of a virus. I contacted his staff to call me so I could explain the memo. Unfortunately, they took it into Governor Walker and he held yet another press conference angrily denouncing the Democrats.
At my request the Governor's staff met Senator Cullen and I at a meeting in South Beloit to consider possible agreeable items. After our two hour discussion I sent them a summary of those items which I hoped would be the basis of an agreement.
Governor Walker's statement that Senator Cullen and I were working for an agreement so that he and I and a couple more legislators could come back to Wisconsin was an absolute lie. As leaders it is our obligation to find solutions to problems that constitute a win for the citizens of Wisconsin and Senator Cullen and I dedicated considerable time to meet that obligation. We had many conversations with his staff to indicate our desire to pursue solutions that would heal the deep divisions within the State Legislature and hopefully bind the wounds that divided Wisconsin.
Any serious leader does not negotiate contentious issues by press conference. His public announcement of what were supposed to be confidential discussions is a serious breach of faith. Furthermore, Governor Walker's identification of Senator Cullen and me was intended to use us as a wedge in public opinion and showed he was not seriously interested in achieving a meaningful solution.
An election determines winners and losers. Governing requires leadership by public officials to develop policies that are considered a win for the state. Wisconsin was the first state in the nation to offer collective bargaining for public employees and public opinion soundly opposes the effort to become the first state in the nation to eliminate collective bargaining.
The Archbishop of Milwaukee said it best, "hard times do not nullify the moral obligation each of us has to respect the legitimate rights of workers." As Pope Benedict wrote in his 2009 encyclical, Caritas in veritate:
Governments, for reasons of economic utility, often limit the freedom or the negotiating capacity of labor unions. Hence traditional networks of solidarity have more and more obstacles to overcome. The repeated calls issued within the Church's social doctrine, beginning with Rerum Novarum [60], for the promotion of workers' associations that can defend their rights must therefore be honored today even more than in the past, as a prompt and far-sighted response to the urgent need for new forms of cooperation at the international level, as well as the local level. [#25]
This has become a protracted fight about unions when we should not lose sight that the ultimate goal is to protect workers rights as a moral imperative. These hard working citizens contribute to the public good and should not be considered the public enemy. They are hard working teachers, bus drivers, prison guards, snowplow operators, nurses, firefighters, clerks, and police offers whose contributions to the commonwealth make Wisconsin a great state.
This is an historic moment. We didn't plan for it, but citizens have seized the opportunity to protect the values, traditions and rights that make Wisconsin special. I stand by my decision to leave Wisconsin to go to the Land of Lincoln to protect these values. When history records our time I wish to be on the right side of protecting workers and not on the wrong side of eliminating workers' rights.
I hope that the Governor and the Republicans will soon realize that their obligation is to listen to the overwhelming majority of the citizens of our wonderful state and not adhere to the rigid ideologues who don't care about good government in our state.
Wisconsin policies have always been a beacon to the rest of the nation. It is my hope that we can find a resolution that protects worker rights and taxpayer and preserves collective bargaining. Such an agreement can lead to unity instead of division and enable us to then work together to improve our economy and move Wisconsin forward.

Mar 8, 2011#86

Espy

You know whats interesting, I hear a lot of good arguments against the stuff Walker is trying to push through, but I really don't hear Walkers side putting forth any real argument except the whole "the state is going to go broke" thing. No nuance, no "here's why we have to stick to our guns" etc. Now maybe I'm missing it but so far Walker and his group seem to be really failing at presenting their side of this.

Mar 8, 2011#87

Krisken

The thing is, he holds press releases every day. It's not like he hasn't had the opportunity to present his arguments to the concerns being made by his constituents.

Mar 8, 2011#88

Krisken

Another first hand account of the events at the Town Hall in Waukeshaw.

My husband and I went to a town hall meeting with our representatives this evening at the Wauwatosa (WI) City Hall and Public Library, hosted by Congressman James Sensenbrenner (R, WI) with newly-elected Wisconsin State Senator Leah Vukmir. Some other youngster elected official was there - didn’t catch his name; not my district.

I spent yesterday and today researching and writing 5 questions from which I would choose should I be lucky enough to get the microphone. We left the house and arrived at the library one hour early to ensure good seats. We were met by a line of protestors outside the library with the usual array of anti-Walker signs. Lots of love for the Fab 14 and unions, even within this conservative Milwaukee suburb - Sensenbrenner's had a hold on this district forever. Ugh.
We went inside, and filled out little slips of paper with our name, address, and a box to indicate our desire to ask a question. At this table we were invited to pick up a copy of the Wisconsin Blue Book, and we then filed into the Firefly Room. This room was set up for an audience of about 70, with a table at the front, Poppa Jim already presiding with his gavel, but without a microphone. The youngster official chatted with the growing crowd, Leah Vukmir was nowhere to be seen, and more people crammed the room, until at 6:45 when Vukmir arrived and Poppa Jim banged his gavel to call the meeting to order.
[A quick aside here; several weeks ago, my husband attended a similar event in this same room, hosted by our democratic State Representative David Cullen. He had mics at the table and halfway down the center aisle of this same room, and discourse was polite, with honest discussion. Clearly discourse was tonight's goal from the git-go.]
A library staff person went to a microphone at a podium off to the side and informed us that library patrons were using the library above us and requested we use our library voices, while Poppa Jim silently sorted the question request sheets into two piles. At this point, I could hear the constant chant of “Kill the Bill” and “Recall Walker” from the protestors outdoors; a look around the room showed me that every seat was filled and people were standing all along the walls, in rows at the back, into the foyer of the library and beyond into the hallway connecting the library to City Hall. I would estimate there were about 200 people in attendance although they did not all fit into the room. There were likely many more if you count the protestors outside, but I couldn’t see them.
Poppa Jim opened the meeting after the library staffer left, and informed us that he would call people from his sheets for questions, and he had put the slips with Wauwatosa addresses into the priority pile; if time allowed, non-Tosa slips would then be called. During his opening statements, people at the back of the crowded room asked it he would use the microphone because they could not hear his un-amplified voice in the crowded space. He refused, banging his gavel and informing us that if we did not use our library voices he would close the meeting right then. This became his constant refrain.
The first questioner was called, and she went to the front of the room to use the microphone. Leah Vukmir’s response was inaudible to the back of the room. Again there were requests for the Representatives to use the microphone. Again, Poppa Jim refused. Several questioners in, the library staffer returned, and invited the Representatives to use the microphone in their responses as the questioners had used it for their questions. Perhaps someone sought her out in the hopes that she could coax our elected officials into using the microphone; in any event, it was the only "people's" success of the evening, forcing our elected officials to use a microphone which they clearly did not want to do.
So Poppa Jim and Leah Vukmir had to stand up to respond to questions each in their turn. The youngster did not answer any questions, nor were any directed to him. I am not sure anyone knew who he was. Any audience reaction to a question or its response was met with the pounding gavel and Poppa Jim’s reminder that he would close down the meeting if we misbehaved.
Meanwhile, the chanting outside grew, and the people inside became more restless and angry as each question was answered by the same talking points, or not answered at all. Suddenly my husband was called to the podium, and he asked the following question of Poppa Jim:

Firstly I want to thank you for your vote in the House to ban drilling for oil and gas in the Great Lakes. However, I have some questions about your relationship with oil companies as they relate to other votes you have cast.
Your personal stock portfolio has significant investments in BP and Exxon Mobil, and you receive thousands of dollars in support from oil and gas companies. You
consistently vote against drilling moratoria, against curbing carbon emissions and against alternative energy initiatives. You regularly vote to spend tax dollars on subsidies for oil and gas companies.
Fortune Magazine and other similar publications rank global oil companies among the most profitable corporations in the world.
Right now, Republicans in Congress are vowing to cut the budget deficit. Yet you voted NO on a bill that would have stopped $40 billion taxpayer dollars from going to subsidize the richest, most profitable companies on the planet, the big oil companies.
Last summer, the polling firm Rasmussen found that 70 percent of Americans believe members of Congress would be willing to sell their vote for cash or campaign contributions.
In light of those polling results, and your overall voting record, how am I to believe that you are not selling your vote for the support of these powerful industries? Why do you support spending taxpayer dollars to subsidize the most profitable corporations in the world, particularly at a time when everyone is asked to tighten their belts?
Poppa Jim came to the microphone, delivered a speech on the evils of selling votes and how his BP stock wasn’t worth much anymore (boo hoo), then launched on a tirade against “cap and tax” - as he likes to call it - and how it would kill the midwest and cause our energy prices to soar! He did not, however, answer why cutting subsidies to big oil was off the table.
Then Poppa Jim called my name. I came to the mike, and said that while I had a series of questions I was eager to ask, I felt I had to follow up on the last response, because the congressman had not actually answered the question. Why did he feel it was an appropriate use of our tax dollars to give $40 billion to the richest, most profitable corporations on earth?
His response was that he felt that we got a good return on those dollars, and that without subsidies our gas prices would be through the roof.
After about 4 or 5 more questions, we were hearing the same old talking points, dishonesty and glad-handing of the issues. I don’t think anyone expected honest answers or even a conversation, but Poppa Jim anticipated the room’s anger, and made it his job to be the authoritarian and shut down any dialog or rebuttal. As Vukmir mouthed another talking chestnut such as "It is precisely because we care about our children and grandchildren that we have to do the heavy-lifting in order to get this deficit under control now..." one man, under his breath (but close to Poppa Jim) said, "why not just raise taxes?"
Poppa Jim, quite stern and authoritarian shouted, "Who said that?" as he looked towards the man. "I did!" the man shouted back. Poppa Jim, putting on his best baseball umpire voice, yelled "You're outta here!" The man shouted back, as he was leaving, "This is a DEMOCRACY, and we are sick of the way you people are conducting yourselves..." He was very articulate, and very, very angry. No one was using their library voice.
More questions were asked, more and more audible responses were aimed at the same old talking points, the needle dropping into the worn groove of a well-rehearsed script. Outside, the chants continued. Poppa Jim kept pounding his gavel like a mad carpenter, saying repeatedly "If I have to pound this gavel again, it will be to adjourn the meeting!".
He had to pound it at least a dozen more times, and finally did adjourn the meeting amidst cries of anger. Everyone jumped up and the room erupted in the "SHAME, SHAME, SHAME" chant. One man stepped up to the mic and began saying "see, this is what our democracy is coming to, this is the respect they have for the people..." and a tense and ropy wingnut commando ran up and pushed the man away, turning off the mic. A slight wrestling match ensued, though it fortunately didn't escalate beyond stupidity.
Poppa Jim and Leah Vukmir quickly and silently slipped from the room and left under police security. An impromptu rush to sign "recall Vukmir" database lists on sheets hastily torn from a legal pad began in the Library lobby. Her constituents were truly disgusted by her sing-song smily-faced dishonesty. The inside crowd joined the outside rally. Chants and honking horns rose into the night in our little Tosa Village City Hall and Public Library.
We went home strangely unsettled, feeling witness to the tense and intense immersive theatrics of performed discourse at these town hall meetings. In our post-Walker world, however, the politics of division which he has seeded have amplified the palpable anger of a waking and massive movement.

So a town hall which people just wanted answers turns into an impromptu recall signing.

Mar 8, 2011#89

Espy

Looks like he's caved:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/08/wisconsin-governor-proposes-union-compromise-e-mails/

The e-mails, some dated as recently as Sunday, show a softened stance in Walker's talks with the 14 Democrats who object to his original proposal that would strip nearly all collective bargaining rights for public workers and force concessions amounting to an average 8 percent pay cut. Republicans, who control the Senate, can't vote on the budget measure unless at least one Democrat is present.
Under the compromise floated by Walker and detailed in the e-mails, workers would be able to continue bargaining over their salaries with no limit, a change from his original plan that banned negotiated salary increases beyond inflation. He also proposed compromises allowing collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.

Mar 8, 2011#90

Krisken

We'll see if that is enough for the Democrats. I know they are quite upset with Walker for his disrespectful press conferences. Things that should have been civil and private were spread around. Wisconsin has a history of doing things in a respectful way, and when someone crosses the line they don't often get a second chance.

Mar 8, 2011#91

jwhouk

It won't bring my job back, by the way.

Mar 8, 2011#92

Krisken

I really wish it would, JW. It's sad to see these public sector jobs being sacrificed in order to make a push for private sector contracts. I'm pulling for ya man, and I hope you find something soon.

Mar 8, 2011#93

DarkAudit

It would make for great theater, if it wasn't happening to friends.

Mar 9, 2011#94

jwhouk

True. Part of me is rooting for a tornado through North Central Wisconsin in May.

Mar 9, 2011#95

Espy

Krisken said:
I really wish it would, JW.

Agreed.

Mar 9, 2011#96

ncts_dodge_man

jwhouk said:
True. Part of me is rooting for a tornado through North Central Wisconsin in May.

Just that particular building? I happen to live about 10 miles east of Madison.

Mar 9, 2011#97

jwhouk

Just a particular area. Right around 45.32672 North 89.64009 West.

Mar 9, 2011#98

Krisken

Holy shit, it has hit the fan. Republicans in Senate stripped the anti-union language from the budget stuff in the bill and made it a separate bill. They voted on it in the same night (tonight) and passed it 18 to 1 (with the Democrats in Illinois). Talk is that it might not be legal since bills have to have 24 hours before they can be voted on.

Protesters have stormed the capitol building. Police have backed away, the Mayor has said Capitol Police will NOT be involved in trying to remove people from the capitol building. Fire trucks are circling the building with their sirens blaring.

If people didn't take the recall efforts seriously before, they better now.

Additional reports saying that businesses who donated to Walker are expected to suffer. Rumors persist of people who bank with M&I bank are expected to show up tomorrow and remove their money from the institution. Lists of businesses who sided with the governor are being distributed as we speak.

Mar 9, 2011#99

Krisken

Article up at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel said:
Before a conference committee vote that took place before the Senate convened, one protester was able to get inside the Senate parlor, stood up and yelled:
"Take a moment. Step back from the abyss. Think about what you are doing."

Mar 10, 2011#100

jwhouk

I'm just... well, it's just that... Oh crap. This stuff NEVER happens... Good God, I'm speechless.

This is a 21-facepalm moment for this state.

Oh, meanwhile, this just in: I'm still scheduled to be unemployed on July 1st.

Mar 10, 2011#101

Krisken

Live Streaming of the Capitol (as of this posting)

Mar 10, 2011#102

DarkAudit

This isn't supposed to happen here. This is the kind of crap a Mubarak, Marcos, or Pinochet would pull. Not a sitting US governor.

Mar 10, 2011#103

Tress

DarkAudit said:
This isn't supposed to happen here. This is the kind of crap a Mubarak, Marcos, or Pinochet would pull. Not a sitting US governor.

I hate it too, but don't you think it's a bit of an exaggeration when you compare Walker to someone who has committed torture and genocide?

Mar 10, 2011#104

Espy

Tress said:
I hate it too, but don't you think it's a bit of an exaggeration when you compare Walker to someone who has committed torture and genocide?

You must be new here.

Mar 10, 2011#105

Krisken

Tress said:
I hate it too, but don't you think it's a bit of an exaggeration when you compare Walker to someone who has committed torture and genocide?

I agree, it is over the top. DA, you really need to dial it back a bit.

Mar 10, 2011#106

DarkAudit

Only the names would change, but the sentiment of leaders not even trying to hide their blatant disregard for the people is the same.

Mar 10, 2011#107

jwhouk

He hasn't done that.

Yet.

Seriously though: it's not what he's done necessarily; it's how he's done it. This is bulldozer politics, not "the art of the deal".

Every day he has these people banging drums and congregating at the Capitol, and keeping them from going inside, it's more political capital that he's burning like the oil pump on an old Chevy.

Mar 10, 2011#108

@Li3n

And they found a way to pass it anyway: Wisconsin union curbs bill passed

Mar 10, 2011#109

SpecialKO

Well, we now know for certain that the whole "DEFICIT?!!" line of thinking was BS, for sure...

Mar 10, 2011#110

Krisken

The capitol building is again under lockdown, in violation of the court order last Friday.

Mar 10, 2011#111

ScytheRexx

This whole thing has been making me smolder, and it's rare for me to get involved, and worst yet ANGRY about politics. The fact I live in Texas means the whole thing does not even really effect me, and yet it still makes me angry.

Not every bill has to have 100% public support, but when nearly the entire state does not want you to pass the bill and has been in mass protests, you figure out another plan rather then stuff it down their throats any way you can. I don't think I have ever seen such a gross disrespect for the very people they should be working for.

The fact the bill seems to have ulterior motives in support of the Republicans and their benefactors does not help either.

Mar 10, 2011#112

Krisken

The lone vote against the bill, Republican Dale Schultz, commented on why he voted against the bill:

As someone who as spent the better part of the last four weeks working toward and hoping for a compromise, this is a difficult night.
I’ve had the honor and privilege of representing folks in Southwest and South Central Wisconsin for 28 years, and where I come from ‘compromise’ isn’t a dirty word.
I’ve received tens of thousands of emails, thousands of phone calls and letters, and spent hours meeting with thousands of citizens in my district. I’ve heard personal and heartfelt stories of friends and neighbors, and they ask for just two things.
First, be inclusive by listening and working with your colleagues on both sides of the aisle to reach a compromise which addresses our fiscal crisis. Second, public employees are willing to make sacrifices on things like wages and benefits, but we need to preserve collective bargaining as a tool which has helped keep labor peace in this state for decades.
Ultimately, I voted my conscience which I feel reflects the core beliefs of the majority of voters who sent me here to represent them.
I look forward to working with my colleagues in the days ahead as we now need to join together to work through what promises to be a difficult budget.

Mar 10, 2011#113

ScytheRexx

Major props for him wanting to work for the people rather then just his party. Too bad none of his fellows did the same.

Mar 10, 2011#114

Espy

I have seen 4 references to Hitler in regards to Gov. Walker so far on facebook today.

New rule: Go be a dumbass on someone elses facebook page.

On to more pertinent matters: These guys have really sealed their fate here with this. Does anyone actually think they have a political career in Wisc. after this? I'm not against unions having to compromise with their sworn enemies here but if those sworn enemies aren't willing to talk or deal... well... to me it's just not how things are done.

Mar 10, 2011#115

Krisken

Apparently, Mr. Walker has an interesting history of dirty politics and disastrous policies.

A word of warning, the article goes off the deep end in lefty land after the first couple paragraphs. Don't venture further unless you're into the whole "Those evil Republicans" crap.

Mar 10, 2011#116

@Li3n

Krisken said:
the whole "Those evil Republicans" crap.

You say that as if it's not true... (hint: the real deal is that the other side is about the same, it's politics).

Mar 10, 2011#117

Krisken

I find that kind of talk undermines your own position more than helps it. It gives too much ammo for the "See, they are awful too!" people.

Mar 10, 2011#118

Krisken

Members of the Firefighters Union withdrew 195,000 dollars from M&I Bank, which just so happens to be Scott Walker and the WI GOP's largest donor.

Mar 10, 2011#119

AshburnerX

Good on them for sticking to their principles. The only way you can really fight big business is by depriving them of it.

Mar 10, 2011#120

Krisken

10 minutes before the Assembly vote was scheduled to take place, Democratic members were still being denied access.

This is disgusting.

Mar 10, 2011#121

ScytheRexx

Krisken said:
A word of warning, the article goes off the deep end in lefty land after the first couple paragraphs. Don't venture further unless you're into the whole "Those evil Republicans" crap.

"He’s a Koch sucking fool." is the best line out of the article.

Mar 10, 2011#122

Krisken

Representative Barca moves to have Fitzgerald removed as speaker for violating the states open meetings law.

Full story can be found here.

Mar 10, 2011#123

ncts_dodge_man

I'm not sure what to say about this - GOP senators make hasty getaway on Metro bus
and Budget bill foes say stealthy vote broke open meetings law; challenges coming

Mar 10, 2011#124

ncts_dodge_man

And now more:

Assembly Minority Leader Peter Barca, Acting Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk, and Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz have each filed a complaint, Barca's specifically states "that Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald and his brother, Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, and others "knowingly attended the meeting in violation of the Open Meetings law" and are subject to penalties identified in state statute."

Mar 10, 2011#125

Necronic

Ah the joy that is mob mentality

Wisconsin protesters corner Rep Sen Glenn Grothman

http://www.newser.com/story/113210/wis-crowd-turns-ugly-on-locked-out-senator.html

Mar 10, 2011#126

Krisken

That was a week ago and Grothman said he didn't feel threatened. The people chanted "Peace" to make sure the crowd didn't get out of hand, as well.

Mar 10, 2011#127

AshburnerX

But Grothman doesn’t think the crowd posed any real danger. “They'll give you the finger, and they yell at you, but I really think deep down inside they're just mostly college kids having fun," he said. "That's the guts of this crowd."

They cornered you after chasing you around the building. If the Democratic guy hadn't stepped in, it's entirely possible you'd have been assaulted or worse. Show some god damn respect to the guy who risked his life to save your ungrateful ass.

Mar 10, 2011#128

Chibibar

I am still trying to wrap my head around the "bypass law" they just pass. There is a VERY vocal group against it. There is 3 weeks of protest about it. There are many blogs that many are willing to PAY the amount the governor propose EXCEPT the removal of collective bargaining. Why in the heck did Walker went with it? Does he not want to run for office anymore?

Mar 10, 2011#129

AshburnerX

Chibibar said:
I am still trying to wrap my head around the "bypass law" they just pass. There is a VERY vocal group against it. There is 3 weeks of protest about it. There are many blogs that many are willing to PAY the amount the governor propose EXCEPT the removal of collective bargaining. Why in the heck did Walker went with it? Does he not want to run for office anymore?

In all likelihood, the Koch Brothers have probably promised him a high paying position in one of their businesses once he leaves office/gets thrown out. He doesn't need to worry about being vilified if his future has been assured.

Mar 10, 2011#130

Chibibar

AshburnerX said:
In all likelihood, the Koch Brothers have probably promised him a high paying position in one of their businesses once he leaves office/gets thrown out. He doesn't need to worry about being vilified if his future has been assured.

Well what about the 18 senators voted on it? they are practically ruin or at least remembered for a long while. People tend to forget things after a time EXCEPT when you hit them in the pocket book.

Mar 10, 2011#131

SpecialKO

Chibibar said:
Well what about the 18 senators voted on it? they are practically ruin or at least remembered for a long while. People tend to forget things after a time EXCEPT when you hit them in the pocket book.

Every single one of them dreams of becoming US Representatives. Once you get to that point, if you have enough local district support AND the direct support of the National GOP, it practically takes dynamite to get you out. All of them are banking on not being one of the ones forced out.

Mar 10, 2011#132

Chibibar

SpecialKO said:
Every single one of them dreams of becoming US Representatives. Once you get to that point, if you have enough local district support AND the direct support of the National GOP, it practically takes dynamite to get you out. All of them are banking on not being one of the ones forced out.

pretty risky gamble since now there are a lot of pissed off constituents.
I mean 3 weeks of protest should have been an indication.

Mar 10, 2011#133

SpecialKO

Chibibar said:
pretty risky gamble since now there are a lot of pissed off constituents.
I mean 3 weeks of protest should have been an indication.

It's true, but not all those constituents get to vote on all the state senators.

Mar 10, 2011#134

Chibibar

whoa! can this be legal? http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20041840-503544.html they pass in the house also BUT without any Democrat in it.

Mar 10, 2011#135

AshburnerX

Chibibar said:
whoa! can this be legal? http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20041840-503544.html they pass in the house also BUT without any Democrat in it.

Read the posts above you Chibi. There are a range of reasons it might not be legal, but the main ones are that they didn't give notice of the vote before they did it and they refused to allow the Dems into the hall to cast their votes when they showed up ten minutes before the voting was to begin.

Mar 10, 2011#136

Chibibar

AshburnerX said:
Read the posts above you Chibi. There are a range of reasons it might not be legal, but the main ones are that they didn't give notice of the vote before they did it and they refused to allow the Dems into the hall to cast their votes when they showed up ten minutes before the voting was to begin.

I did read it, but the article (previous one) said that their legal department gave a "thumbs up" so........ that is questionable.

Mar 10, 2011#137

Krisken

Hehe, yeah, their legal department. Kind of like when Bush's lawyers said they can torture of they want to.

Mar 10, 2011#138

Espy

If it wasn't legal then the repubs lawyers that were quoted on NPR this morning are going to get shitcanned. They seemed very confident that everything was good to go.
Added at: 17:48

Krisken said:
Hehe, yeah, their legal department. Kind of like when Bush's lawyers said they can torture of they want to.

Well, and I get your point but it still seems like if they knew it would get overturned then what was the point? If it's a grey area where they think they can win thats one thing but this sounds more like an either or yaknow?
Either way... good luck to ya'all over there. I think it's only going to get uglier.

Mar 10, 2011#139

Krisken

So what are the Republican state Senators doing now that they stripped the rights of public sector unions to bargain? They went to DC to hold a fundraiser.

Mar 10, 2011#140

Espy

That sounds about right. Those guys are going to be heros to a lot of republicans. It's probably a smart time for them to rake in some cash.

Mar 11, 2011#141

TheBrew

Espy said:
That sounds about right. Those guys are going to be heros to a lot of republicans. It's probably a smart time for them to rake in some cash.

They are probably going to need all of the support that they can get to ride the backlash.

Mar 11, 2011#142

Krisken

Movie theater changes it's marquee.

Mar 11, 2011#143

MindDetective

*grumble grumble* Can I get a link? Thanks.

Mar 11, 2011#144

Krisken

To the youtube video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOCutXuxEMQ

Mar 11, 2011#145

MindDetective

Yeah, they don't load for me, often.

Mar 11, 2011#146

@Li3n

Got this of the Daily Shows Moment of Zen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsHXJr8tqP0

Pay attention at 0:25!

Mar 11, 2011#147

Chibibar

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110311/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions

"That is what the voters wanted it" ummm... did they not notice the protest outside the capital?

Mar 11, 2011#148

Krisken

Oh, those aren't real people. Real people support Walker, of course!

Mar 11, 2011#149

Chibibar

Krisken said:
Oh, those aren't real people. Real people support Walker, of course!

oh yea! I forgot

even at the state polls it didn't look good. So much for listening to their constituents!

Mar 11, 2011#150

Krisken

For some reason they think that getting 25% of the state to vote for them means they can screw over 100% of the state.

Mar 11, 2011#151

Chibibar

Krisken said:
For some reason they think that getting 25% of the state to vote for them means they can screw over 100% of the state.

Well there is a silver lining on this (I hope)
1. People will more likely to vote. At least the next set of elections until they (the people) get complacent again.
2. People (in the U.S.) will pay more attention on what their government is doing and hopefully plan accordingly.

This is my understanding for the U.S. government. The people vote these elected officials to represent the city, county, state, or country. The power of voting is important here, sadly as time pass people are less likely to vote due to various reasons (a different thread really) but in this wake up call, we can hope the people will learn from their mistakes

Mar 11, 2011#152

Espy

Have there been any polls on the actual bill?

Mar 11, 2011#153

MindDetective

Espy said:
Have there been any polls on the actual bill?

A quick search at Gallup has this that mentions bargaining rights in general: http://www.gallup.com/poll/146525/Americans-Message-States-Cut-Dont-Tax-Borrow.aspx

It sounds like the pendulum has swung a little bit towards an even split from people being against changes in February. It isn't about the specific bill, so it may be that Wisconsin's numbers alone look different.

Mar 11, 2011#154

Krisken

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ot_for_weakening_collective_bargaining_rights

Rasmussen said:
A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Wisconsin voters shows that just 39% favor weakening collective bargaining rights and 52% are opposed. At the same time, 44% support a 10% pay cut for all state workers. Thirty-eight percent (38%) are opposed. That’s partly because 27% of Wisconsin voters believe state workers are paid too much and 16% believe they are paid too little. Forty-nine percent (49%) believe the pay of state workers is about right.

Also according to Rasmussun (a conservative polling place that trends a 4% uptake in favor of Republicans), 57% of Wisconsinites disapprove of Scott Walker's performance so far, while 43% approve.

Mar 11, 2011#155

Krisken

It appears that the sender of the two threatening emails has admitted to doing so. No word yet on the person's identity.

I hope they prosecute the guy. Talk about stupidly giving ammunition for distraction from the issue.

Mar 11, 2011#156

SpecialKO

Walker and WI State Senators sneak a provision into anti-union bill...to give a nuclear power plant to David Koch?!!

Um...um...what?!!

Mar 11, 2011#157

Krisken

While I can't comment on it being in there for Koch industries (though I'm not overly skeptical on that being possible), I believe this means the bill isn't law yet. If the language between the Senate version and the House version are different, then it hasn't been passed by both of them. Once a change has been made, it has to be revoted on in the Senate.

We'll see what ends up happening with it, though I'm not holding my breath. These people have shown time and time again they care not for the law.

Mar 12, 2011#158

Krisken

Tony Shalhoub addresses the crown in Madison today (3/12/11)

Mar 14, 2011#159

Krisken

Speaker Fitzgerald has thrown out all pretense of democracy and told the Democrats they can't vote and are still in contempt, despite being at the capitol.

Mar 14, 2011#160

AshburnerX

So... why hasn't the federal government stepped in and taken control of the situation yet? I understand that states are sovereign and that their affairs are their own mostly, but isn't that based on the assumption that they are actually operating as a functional government? Is there any precedent for it?

Mar 14, 2011#161

Krisken

This is how I feel as well, Ashburner. This is incredible. If this is the direction of our nation, I weep for it.

Mar 14, 2011#162

AshburnerX

Seriously... at this point I'd dissolve the government of WI, hold elections, and go from there.

Mar 14, 2011#163

Krisken

Oh, and beware the comments. Some people are trolling pretty hard there.

Mar 15, 2011#164

Chibibar

AshburnerX said:
So... why hasn't the federal government stepped in and taken control of the situation yet? I understand that states are sovereign and that their affairs are their own mostly, but isn't that based on the assumption that they are actually operating as a functional government? Is there any precedent for it?

I wonder about that too, but I think it is about state sovereignty.

Mar 15, 2011#165

Necronic

Hm. Been reading a bunch on this and its all interesting.

Here's one point I liked. Assuming what the Republican's are doing is legal (and its a big if), then it is also legitimate. The Dem's were the first to whip out procedural douchebaggery to get an unfair advantage by fleeing the state to dodge quorum. So whose to say that the Reps can't also pull any move from the procedural playbook, no matter how clearly wrong it is, to get their way?

As for whether or not its legal, that's another issue.

Mar 15, 2011#166

Krisken

Democrats respond to Fitzgerald's letter.

Necronic, there is no way that taxing a populous of 2.2 million people without giving them a voice is legal. Those 14 Senators represent that many Wisconsinites.

Mar 15, 2011#167

Espy

Necronic said:
Hm. Been reading a bunch on this and its all interesting.

Here's one point I liked. Assuming what the Republican's are doing is legal (and its a big if), then it is also legitimate. The Dem's were the first to whip out procedural douchebaggery to get an unfair advantage by fleeing the state to dodge quorum. So whose to say that the Reps can't also pull any move from the procedural playbook, no matter how clearly wrong it is, to get their way?

As for whether or not its legal, that's another issue.

Interesting points. They discussed this on NPR this morning and had a really reasonable debate about it, generally agreeing with this statement, that this is merely the other side of the coin that the democrats already played, but that its still in doubt as to how legal it is.

I'm really not sure here, between the idiots fleeing the state, the idiots locking down the state and the idiots screaming on both sides how you WI folks are going to move on. Perhaps an Aliens 2 solution is needed?

Mar 15, 2011#168

Krisken

Ask yourself this: If those Democrats hadn't left, would we know about it?

Mar 15, 2011#169

Espy

Krisken said:
Ask yourself this: If those Democrats hadn't left, would we know about it?

I assume you are talking about the vote they fled to avoid?

I guess I don't know. I'm not aware how easy or hard it is for a politician to call a press conference. It seems easy but maybe it's not? If you are asking was there any other way for them to have dealt with it? I again don't know. I don't know all the laws and work around the had available to them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have fled either, I really don't know what their best option was. They did what they did and it's had consequences. In the end the voters are going to have to decide if they think it was a good thing. That goes for both sides.

Mar 15, 2011#170

MindDetective

I know GasBandit prefers the headbutting but I always preferred when politicians could come to a compromise on issues. Compromise HAS to be better than the entrails of the political system spilling out like this.

Mar 15, 2011#171

Espy

MindDetective said:
I know GasBandit prefers the headbutting but I always preferred when politicians could come to a compromise on issues. Compromise HAS to be better than the entrails of the political system spilling out like this.

Agreed. I really hope this is a lesson for the voters in the next election. Be careful who you vote for.

Mar 15, 2011#172

Krisken

The bill was available for 4 days, Espy. This is why I'm asking the question. Do you think the public would be aware of the issue if the news organizations hadn't been made aware of it by the 14 Democrats leaving the state? They knew they wouldn't change Walker's mind. The protesters have been saying that they knew Walker wouldn't change his mind and compromise. Attention needed to be brought to the issue. The Democrats used a legal maneuver (while I admit it isn't a move I am a huge fan of) to hold up a vote they strongly believed was against the wishes of the people of the state. Polling suggests they were right.

However, holding Senators in contempt of congress for an undisclosed amount of time, despite not being in contempt of congress, to deny the voice of 2.2 million people is not legal.

Mar 15, 2011#173

Chibibar

I think the Dems probably look at all the options on stopping the bill (the original one) and figure they do not have the majority (which they don't) to alter the bill. So I think the Dems took the only option they had (all 14 agree to it) and fled so no quorum could happen) BUT the Republican found a loop hole and work around it anyways.

BUT they are still in session. Can a single power stop all the dems from voting on a bill? that is up to the lawyers since from my personal opinion I don't think they can unless all 14 are being charge for a crime and being remove from office (which mean the reps are still short handed and need to replace those seats right?)

Mar 15, 2011#174

Krisken

Espy said:
Agreed. I really hope this is a lesson for the voters in the next election. Be careful who you vote for.

I think the states Republicans didn't understand what this particular set of tea party candidates stood for. They saw the (R) and voted how they usually do. Since Governor Doyle (D) was such an epic failure, it's no surprise the people of the state weren't willing to give Mayor Barrett a chance.

Mar 15, 2011#175

Espy

Krisken said:
The bill was available for 4 days, Espy. This is why I'm asking the question. Do you think the public would be aware of the issue if the news organizations hadn't been made aware of it by the 14 Democrats leaving the state? They knew they wouldn't change Walker's mind. The protesters have been saying that they knew Walker wouldn't change his mind and compromise. Attention needed to be brought to the issue. The Democrats used a legal maneuver (while I admit it isn't a move I am a huge fan of) to hold up a vote they strongly believed was against the wishes of the people of the state. Polling suggests they were right.

However, holding Senators in contempt of congress for an undisclosed amount of time, despite not being in contempt of congress, to deny the voice of 2.2 million people is not legal.

And as I have already said, I'm sure they did what felt they had to do and I'm not aware if they had any other options available to them. So I really don't know what else you want me to say.

Mar 15, 2011#176

Chibibar

Krisken said:
I think the states Republicans didn't understand what this particular set of tea party candidates stood for. They saw the (R) and voted how they usually do. Since Governor Doyle (D) was such an epic failure, it's no surprise the people of the state weren't willing to give Mayor Barrett a chance.

Well Governor Walker is making a whole new of epic failure (IMO - When you have tens of thousands of people protesting at the capital, the polls show they don't want it, and Walker still pass it anyways, that can't be good for future (R) people)

Mar 15, 2011#177

Krisken

Sorry, it was the comparing of the two actions as equal that bothered me. I guess I don't really see it as such.

The first court date has been set for Friday over Dane County suing the state over the passage of the collective bargaining law. Defendants include Secretary of State Doug La Follette, Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald and Senate President Mike Ellis, and Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald and Assembly Majority Leader Scott Suder.

Mar 15, 2011#178

Necronic

The point about the Dems fleeing more to draw attention is a good one, and it raises an interesting comparison.

The democrats used a procedural rule to lock down congress and prevent representative democracy from working as intended. This was done primarily to raise national attention.

The republicans used a series of procedural rules to re-open congress and pass a series of bills that would have been passed if the representative democracy was working as intended, but also circumvented representative democracy by keeping the democrats from voting. This was done to pass bills that would have been passed anyways.

Now, I'm not defending the republicans here. While I don't disagree with some of their procedural moves I find others highly distasteful and probably illegal (the current thing about blocking voting.) However, I do think that both sides chose to use procedural loopholes to break the intent of representative democracy, and of the twoI think that the initial actions of the republicans were more ethical as the goal was to restore the power of the elected officials that had been empowered by the people of the state to make decisions, whereas the democrats goal was to say 'not fair' on the national stage as loud as they could.

Which of those is right? I don't know.
-------------

As for the protests, I dunno how much that really matters. Madison is not Wisconsin in the exact same way that Austin is not Texas. When I lived in Austin you would see massive protests all the time at the capital about this thing or that, but the people protesting were not even close to an accurate representation of the population of the state.

Should democracy bow to the principle of "every man has a vote, weighted by the volume of his voice"? No. The power of the individual in a democracy is in his vote, not his voice. If the people of Wisconsin voted in a bunch of tea party republicans they should not be surprised when they attack unions.

As for the polls, I hold a somewhat similar view. A poll I would *love* to see would be how many people in the crowd voted in the state legislative elections. I'm curious how many of the polls even ask people about that. I could care less about the opinion of someone who didn't vote. Its like telling the waiter "just bring me whatever" and then complaining about what he brings to the table.

Mar 15, 2011#179

sixpackshaker

Quorum rules are in place to insure that the minority does not get over run by "democracy." It allows those with out the votes to steer unpopular/illegal/immoral laws.

Mar 15, 2011#180

Necronic

Right, but that's not the same as using them to stall a vote. That's a procedural loophole.

Mar 15, 2011#181

Chibibar

Necronic said:
Right, but that's not the same as using them to stall a vote. That's a procedural loophole.

True, but the Dems can say "We did everything we could even walk out on a vote so they won't have a quorum" CYA maneuver?

Mar 15, 2011#182

Krisken

Watch as someone claims to be a police officer, but never shows proof of being officers. ~~Then they admit to being private security~~ they are identified as State Patrol.

Mar 15, 2011#183

AshburnerX

... is there any difference between being local police and State Patrol?

Mar 15, 2011#184

Krisken

You mean other than jurisdictions and general services provided?

Mar 15, 2011#185

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
You mean other than jurisdictions and general services provided?

I didn't say it wasn't irregular, because it is, only asked if there was a reason why they couldn't fulfill that role. I agree that it shows they are at their wits end and that they have few supporters, but it's not like they hired Xe mercenaries to keep people out.

Mar 15, 2011#186

Krisken

Using state patrol as your own private security detail? Having that same state patrol violate a court order and keep people out of the capitol building when the city and county police refuse to do so? I have a hard time justifying that. Plus, when they each won't identify themselves, despite saying they are police officers, that is INSANE.

Mar 15, 2011#187

Espy

Krisken said:
Plus, when they each won't identify themselves, despite saying they are police officers, that is INSANE.

Yeah, thats really stupid, no matter how annoying the protesters might be to you they deserve decent treatment.

Mar 15, 2011#188

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
Using state patrol as your own private security detail? Having that same state patrol violate a court order and keep people out of the capitol building when the city and county police refuse to do so? I have a hard time justifying that. Plus, when they each won't identify themselves, despite saying they are police officers, that is INSANE.

See, those are valid points. I wasn't sure of the point you were originally trying to make.

Mar 16, 2011#189

jwhouk

First of all: The reason why Barrett didn't win last year was because the election was one year too early. He would have gotten a TON of sympathy votes if the election had been in '09 - after he'd gotten the crap kicked out of him by that insane guy at the Wisconsin State Fair.

Second: State Patrolmen have two major differences over police officers. One, they are state employees that have to go through the civil service application process to get their jobs; two, their jurisdiction is the entire state of Wisconsin. Technically, they do follow the orders of the Governor, but I'm not 100% sure they're his "security detail". Oh, and if memory serves, their union contracts weren't affected by the Budget Repair Bill. (Insert snarky remark by disaffected state employee here.)

Lastly: I'm pretty sure I aced my interview up at Winnebago, but that commute is gonna be hella annoying for me if I get it. And I'm already dreading having to meet the physical fitness requirements (17 push-ups, 23 sit-ups, and 17:30 in a mile-and-a-half run).

Mar 16, 2011#190

AshburnerX

jwhouk said:
And I'm already dreading having to meet the physical fitness requirements (17 push-ups, 23 sit-ups, and 17:30 in a mile-and-a-half run).

Those aren't exactly terrible difficult requirements, as long as you have good technique. Just do a little practice at home and you'll meet them fine.

Mar 16, 2011#191

Krisken

jwhouk said:
First of all: The reason why Barrett didn't win last year was because the election was one year too early. He would have gotten a TON of sympathy votes if the election had been in '09 - after he'd gotten the crap kicked out of him by that insane guy at the Wisconsin State Fair.

To be fair, he was attacked with a pipe. Pretty bad ass for a mayor.

jwhouk said:
Second: State Patrolmen have two major differences over police officers. One, they are state employees that have to go through the civil service application process to get their jobs; two, their jurisdiction is the entire state of Wisconsin. Technically, they do follow the orders of the Governor, but I'm not 100% sure they're his "security detail". Oh, and if memory serves, their union contracts weren't affected by the Budget Repair Bill. (Insert snarky remark by disaffected state employee here.)

Well, it does help that when Walker took office he named Stephen Fitzgerald as head of the State Patrol. Yes, Fitzgerald’s two sons are Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald and Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald. Any surprise there?

jwhouk said:
Lastly: I'm pretty sure I aced my interview up at Winnebago, but that commute is gonna be hella annoying for me if I get it. And I'm already dreading having to meet the physical fitness requirements (17 push-ups, 23 sit-ups, and 17:30 in a mile-and-a-half run).

Congratulations and good luck! I'm sure you'll be able to make the physical fitness requirements. Glad to hear you found something so quick.

Mar 16, 2011#192

AshburnerX

Yeah, those fitness requirements don't sound all that bad. Doing push-ups and sit-ups is more about technique than endurance and a mile and a half in 17:00 is actually really lenient.

Mar 16, 2011#193

SpecialKO

AshburnerX said:
Yeah, those fitness requirements don't sound all that bad. Doing push-ups and sit-ups is more about technique than endurance and a mile and a half in 17:00 is actually really lenient.

Yeah, that's barely jogging pace. I don't know your current level of fitness, but if you can stay hydrated and keep up a nice steady pace (no need to put on huge bursts of speed), you should be able to nail it just fine.

Sit-ups and push-ups are totally about technique, and just require practice. There's a reason why crazy fitness people do hundreds a day as a matter of course.

EDIT: Also, you probably know, but it really can't be said enough: take the time to stretch your muscles, particularly your calves and thighs, before and after jogging/running. Since the distance is relatively short for the time, the state of readiness of your muscles is probably the biggest factor.

Also, see if you can practice the run portion on the actual route/track. Course familiarity always helps keep focus.

Mar 16, 2011#194

Necronic

I can't speak for wisconsin, but in Austin/TX the State Troopers have jurisdiction in the capitol buildings

Mar 16, 2011#195

Krisken

They may have jurisdiction, but they don't act as the personal bodyguard of the Governor.

As it stands now, the Capitol Police are responsible for security at the capitol building in Wisconsin.

Mar 16, 2011#196

SpecialKO

Necronic said:
I can't speak for wisconsin, but in Austin/TX the State Troopers have jurisdiction in the capitol buildings

Don't they also have to show a badge if asked when they self-identify as police officers?

Mar 16, 2011#197

sixpackshaker

A State Trooper is with Governor Perry at all times, it is true of most Governors. They also act as drivers for the Gov's too. Like the one that nearly killed the Gov of New Jersey because he was texting and driving.

Mar 16, 2011#198

Krisken

That is what I found most disturbing, SpecialKO. The officers said they were officers, but wouldn't give a name or badge number. I'm pretty sure this is a big no-no.

Mar 16, 2011#199

Necronic

SpecialKO said:
Don't they also have to show a badge if asked when they self-identify as police officers?

Probably, I don't know. To be honest (should have said this) I can't watch the video as I am at work.

Mar 16, 2011#200

sixpackshaker

I've not watched the video. Really the only times they need to show the badge is when they are making an arrest, or pulling their gun...

Mar 16, 2011#201

SpecialKO

What about when they're trying to kick you out of a public building and threatening you with obstruction of justice charges?

Mar 16, 2011#202

Krisken

We should ask Officer_Charon, eh?

Mar 16, 2011#203

Espy

Yeah, I wonder how that works. Any searches for it just pull up the old "if you ask a cop if they are a cop they have to tell you" myth. I would assume they have to show you their badge or give you their badge number if you ask for it but I suppose that might be only under certain circumstances.

Mar 16, 2011#204

Krisken

I sent a PM to Charon. I'm sure he'll be kind enough to set us straight either way when he comes by.

Mar 16, 2011#205

sixpackshaker

Would each of the officers escorting you off the property, have to show their badges?

Mar 16, 2011#206

SpecialKO

I'm fairly sure that self-identifying as a police officer to get you to do something might be one of those circumstances.

Mar 16, 2011#207

Krisken

Or even THEIR NAME.

Mar 16, 2011#208

Espy

SpecialKO said:
I'm fairly sure that self-identifying as a police officer to get you to do something might be one of those circumstances.

I think it's reasonable to assume so.
The only thing that makes me doubt it is that if there was a law on the books in Wisconsin (and remember Krisken, things might vary from State to State so Charon might not know) these folks who took the video would probably be trumpeting it and it doesn't appear they are unless I missed it.

Mar 16, 2011#209

SpecialKO

Espy said:
I think it's reasonable to assume so.
The only thing that makes me doubt it is that if there was a law on the books in Wisconsin (and remember Krisken, things might vary from State to State so Charon might not know) these folks who took the video would probably be trumpeting it and it doesn't appear they are unless I missed it.

It might also be because after that first guy, the other members of the security team acted very reasonably, not hassling the camera-people, just keeping the entryway clear.

Mar 16, 2011#210

Krisken

Representative Mark Pocan's letter to the Fitzgeralds.

Mar 16, 2011#211

Espy

Thats a powerful letter.

Mar 16, 2011#212

sixpackshaker

Unless it ends up in every paper in the state, it will get tossed out.

Mar 16, 2011#213

Chibibar

sixpackshaker said:
Unless it ends up in every paper in the state, it will get tossed out.

sad but true

Mar 16, 2011#214

Krisken

This is the Dane County District Attorney's court document which was filed against Jeff and Scott Fitzgerald, Michael Ellis, Scott Suder, and Douglas Lafollette. This is to decide if they violated Wisconsin's open meetings law, which requires that meetings must take place at least 2 hours after the public announcement of the meeting and 24 hour notice when a new measure is introduced.

Mar 16, 2011#215

jwhouk

Scott Walker has most of the e-mails from Democrats in his Spam filter.

Mar 17, 2011#216

Krisken

Because it is hilarious, I am sharing a Madison Police incident report. Grothman called all of the protesters "slobs".

On a sadder note, the city of West Bend, my city, would shoulder one of the greatest cuts in the state. My city/county voted overwhelmingly for Walker and Grothman. I will have a hard time having pity for their tears.

Mar 18, 2011#217

Tress

Time to add a new wrinkle to this whole fiasco:

A judge blocks the new law due to violations of the open meetings law.

So we have to go through it all over again. This should be fun.

Mar 18, 2011#218

Krisken

Boy, did I call that one.

Mar 18, 2011#219

TheBrew

Not good for Walker and the GOP. The longer this plays out, the more it hurts them.

Mar 18, 2011#220

AshburnerX

TheBrew said:
Not good for Walker and the GOP. The longer this plays out, the more it hurts them.

Especially if it's delayed until the Recall attempts start coming in. If they lose even one guy, they'll have to wait for the election and if it's a Dem who's elected then the whole thing is over. They must be panicking at this point.

Mar 18, 2011#221

Necronic

He also asked the officer if he knew "Snoop Dog." The officer said he did not, and again told the man not to touch people who do not want to be touched.

That's absolutely hilarious and filled with win.

You know, I'm starting to have bit more respect for the Dems there. The process has been slimy as all get out, but if it works its pretty damned clever. The Dems had no direct way to challenge this. Reps owned the house/senate/gov table. But somehow they may have tricked the Reps into getting blustery and making a heinously stupid mistake like breaking the law. This means that the Reps may actually loose the totalitarian power they had been given.

If they had just had a bit more patience, and a bit less bluster, they would have won this hands down, it was just a matter of time. Now it really isn't as certain.

Mar 18, 2011#222

Krisken

Normally comments are utterly painful to read on the internet. This one, by someone calling themselves WBTEACHER, cuts right to the heart of how West Bend will be affected by this.

WBTeacher said:
As many people know, West Bend prides itself on being extremely conservative. As someone who is quite frugal herself, I can appreciate that. However, the upcoming budget severely impacts the West Bend School District. As one of the lowest-spending districts while also being one of the largest districts in the state, these proposed cuts will damage the district. Glenn Grothman claimed that he was led to believe that Walker would make provisions for low-spending districts like West Bend. Either Grothman lied or Walker did, because the news the WB School District staff received today is that the district stands to lose $6.8 million dollars next year, $2.9 of which will be subsidized by the concessions made by employees. Now the district has to find a way to cut an
additional $3.8 million dollars. What does that mean? Significant reductions in teachers and programs available to students, as well as increased class sizes, etc.. The following year will bring about even more cuts. Unfortunately, you can only cut so much all the way around before it impacts the quality of education provided. For those taxpayers who only look at the bottom dollar on their tax bill, you are seriously mistaken if you don't believe these tremendous cuts aren't going to impact you. Who will want to move to West Bend? Your home values will significantly decrease and for those who work in the private sector, you can be guaranteed to see far less spending taking place by the community members, thus impacting businesses. Eleven hundred people are employed by the WB school district; when each one loses 10% of their take-home pay, there is no longer money available to be spent on consumer goods. My guess is, however, that those teachers will not be taking extreme joy when the private sector is impacted, as many in the private sector are currently rejoicing at the cuts that their friends and neighbors are about to take. Do not be so ignorant as to think that these cuts will not trickle down to all.

Fucking A, someone gets it.

Mar 19, 2011#223

Tress

You know, there are times when I see ridiculous cuts to education coupled with claims that teachers are root of all evil, and I think to myself "Just fucking do it. Slash education, put 70 kids in a classroom, get rid of all their books, and eliminate every class that isn't a math or science. Then we'll see how happy you stupid assholes are." Of course that would never be acceptable because kids would be hurt worst of all, but it's tempting.

Mar 19, 2011#224

DarkAudit

Tress said:
You know, there are times when I see ridiculous cuts to education coupled with claims that teachers are root of all evil, and I think to myself "Just fucking do it. Slash education, put 70 kids in a classroom, get rid of all their books, and eliminate every class that isn't a math or science. Then we'll see how happy you stupid assholes are." Of course that would never be acceptable because kids would be hurt worst of all, but it's tempting.

Don't forget to cut band, cheerleading, track, hockey, basketball, and football too. Sure it'll make school suck all that more, but think of the SAVINGS!

Mar 21, 2011#225

jwhouk

Racine Unified tried that. Didn't work.

The talk is that pretty much every county with large school districts will have large cuts, while some schools in BFN Wisconsin (the parts of the state that even we confuse with Canada) are going to see increases.

Oh, and on top of that, in exchange for paying more for my health care? There's talk that the benefits are going to go down the tubes as well.

On, Wississippi.

Mar 21, 2011#226

Espy

Just out of curiosity, what was the democrats plans to balance the budget in WI? Legally it has to be balanced right? Thats part of the pressure Walker is using here correct?

Mar 21, 2011#227

jwhouk

It sure as heck wasn't in cutting teachers' pay.

If memory serves, they were going to find ways of adding revenue without having to raise taxes - and they DEFINITELY weren't going to be giving tax breaks to donors.

Other than that - no clue what a Barrett administration would have done.

Well, except for one thing: they probably would have shuttered EAS anyways.

Mar 21, 2011#228

Krisken

I'm sure Barrett would have figured it out. He at least had a B.A. in economics.

Mar 22, 2011#229

Chibibar

I am still trying to figure out on how the whole national "increase" education is going to work if they keep cutting teacher's pay.

Mar 22, 2011#230

Tress

Chibibar said:
I am still trying to figure out on how the whole national "increase" education is going to work if they keep cutting teacher's pay.

Oh, didn't you hear? We're a drain on society with our luxurious salaries. Besides, ask any pundit: when a kid does well, it's because he/she was raised right, possesses a strong independent work ethic, and is naturally gifted. If a kid does poorly, it's because the teacher is an incompetent loser who couldn't find a real job.

Mar 22, 2011#231

Covar

See you should just come to North Carolina where the school system will just pass the students along to the next grade regardless. This way no one has to be accountable.

Mar 23, 2011#232

Necronic

Dunno if I am mispercieving this but I seriously dislike the implication that Teachers Unions are inherently a good thing for the education system and students, and all teachers support them, because that's a pretty bold claim. Personally I agree with Teacher's Unions on certain aspects (increasing pay, increasing funding, promoting LBGT teacher rights, against No Child Left Behind) but MASSIVELY disagree with them on many many other stances (against merit based pay, against school vouchers, against Teach For America)

Generally they maintain the same unfavorable stances that many unions do, where they support the interests of their members above the interests of the business they work in. In the cases I mentioned this is done by removing competion which *could* remove motivation for performance.

Just don't assume that the damage to unions is inherently bad for students, because that's a totally different argument. Now, it most likely IS bad for Teachers, that's a no brainer.

Mar 23, 2011#233

SpecialKO

Necronic said:
Dunno if I am mispercieving this but I seriously dislike the implication that Teachers Unions are inherently a good thing for the education system and students, and all teachers support them, because that's a pretty bold claim. Personally I agree with Teacher's Unions on certain aspects (increasing pay, increasing funding, promoting LBGT teacher rights, against No Child Left Behind) but MASSIVELY disagree with them on many many other stances (against merit based pay, against school vouchers, against Teach For America)

Generally they maintain the same unfavorable stances that many unions do, where they support the interests of their members above the interests of the business they work in. In the cases I mentioned this is done by removing competion which *could* remove motivation for performance.

Just don't assume that the damage to unions is inherently bad for students, because that's a totally different argument. Now, it most likely IS bad for Teachers, that's a no brainer.

I don't think anyone really disagrees with you here as opposed to disagreeing with the implication that the entire budget and school system can be fixed by outlawing collective bargaining. That's ultimately what Walker and the GOPers in the state legislation are trying to say.

Mar 23, 2011#234

jwhouk

My argument will always be that he went about it the wrong way. Then again, that seems to be par for the course with these guys - witness what our new state treasurer wants to do with his own position (and that of Secretary of State).

I missed that part of my PoliSci classwork that said, "When trying to implement policy, go big or go home." Silly me, I thought it was always "Implement in increments."

EDIT: Interesting quote from Salon:

I believe Governor Walker has poisoned labor relations for years to come, ensuring the failure of his administration. Compromise is not a dirty word. It is an integral part of politics and the collective bargaining process. Anyone who thinks otherwise should not be in politics or in a leadership position. As Edmund Burke said, "All government, indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, and every prudent act, is founded on compromise and barter."

Mar 24, 2011#235

Chibibar

SpecialKO said:
I don't think anyone really disagrees with you here as opposed to disagreeing with the implication that the entire budget and school system can be fixed by outlawing collective bargaining. That's ultimately what Walker and the GOPers in the state legislation are trying to say.

that is exactly what the Wisconsin GOP is thinking. No Collective Bargaining = save money. :confused:

Oh, and slash education budget!

Mar 24, 2011#236

Krisken

Chibibar said:
that is exactly what the Wisconsin GOP is thinking. No Collective Bargaining = save money. Oh, and slash education budget!

And then give that money to corporations. Oh, and if the education system gets bad enough, the people will be begging to have it privatized.

Mar 24, 2011#237

jwhouk

Welp. My lovely state senator replied to my little "thanks for nothin', buddy" e-mail. He didn't mention ONE THING about EAS closing. It was all about "the state spent itself into a hole and didn't stop spending and we can't do anything about it except cut stuff wah wah wah".

Oh, and the good news is, I won't have to struggle to try to meet the physical fitness requirements for a job up in Oshkosh. The bad news is, it's because of health history. :Leyla:

Mar 25, 2011#238

Krisken

Indiana prosecutor has resigned since it has been discovered he suggested, to Governor Walker, that a fake attack on the Governor should be staged to put unions in a bad light. Stay classy, sir.

Mar 25, 2011#239

Tress

What a dick. These people have completely lost it.

Mar 25, 2011#240

DarkAudit

This is a different Indiana official than the guy who got fired for suggesting the police use live ammunition on the protestors.

Mar 25, 2011#241

Krisken

You know what is frustrating? I've been searching to discover what, if any, charges were made in the threatening emails sent to Republican lawmakers during this whole frackus. Can anyone find what, or if, the person who sent them was charged?

Mar 25, 2011#242

jwhouk

Sorry, I've been a bit busy as of late.

Also, I have been reminded why, about two decades ago, I realized I did not want to go work in the adult correctional system.

Mar 25, 2011#243

Krisken

Well, we still don't care about the law here in Wisconsin. Bill restricting collective bargaining in Wisconsin published despite court order

Mar 26, 2011#244

Null

So, in effect, Governor Walker and the state assembly are saying they're above the jurisdiction of the courts?

Mar 26, 2011#245

Norris

Someone on another board explained that the agency that published the law did so out of obligation (I.E, it was passed so we publish it regardless of whether or not it is ever enforced) and that the agency who published the law pointed out that until the Secretary of State publishes the law, it is not actually legally enforceable (and the court order will prevent that from occurring). However, Walker has claimed he will ignore the shit out of that last part.

Note this is all second hand, and un-fact-checked. It is simply what I've heard.

Mar 26, 2011#246

jwhouk

No one seems to know if publishing it on the internet makes it law.

Boy, you'd think that if you were going to play elephant in a china shop with policy, you'd at least check to make sure the elephant could fit through the door, first.

Mar 27, 2011#247

jwhouk

By the bye: went past Insanity Central this afternoon. Was relatively quiet, compared to last month. Sad, really.

Mar 27, 2011#248

Krisken

Looks like a 3rd suit is being filed by Madison firefighters and public works employees alleging the new law treats union workers unfairly compared to other workers and violates the Wisconsin state constitution.

So, how about all that money this bill was supposed to save, eh?

Mar 27, 2011#249

AshburnerX

Yeah, really... the saddest part of all of this is that the State government stands to loose more in lawsuits than they ever hoped to gain by pulling this stunt. Which means things will likely be worse off than they were before.

Mar 27, 2011#250

jwhouk

Oh, that's already been shown to be BS - Savings? What Savings?

And meanwhile, in the most GOP-heavy county in the state: What do you mean it won't save us any money?

Mar 29, 2011#251

Krisken

What. The. Fuck. Remember how that bill was being put on hold to be published by that judge and they went and printed it anyways? Yeah, Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi AGAIN blocks the bill.

FTA said:
"Apparently that language was either misunderstood or ignored, but what I said was the further implementation of Act 10 was enjoined. That is what I now want to make crystal clear," she said.

But minutes later, outside the court room, Assistant Attorney General Steven Means said the legislation "absolutely" is still in effect.

Assembly Minority Leader Peter Barca (D-Kenosha) balked at that statement.
"It's just startling that the attorney general believes you should not follow court orders anymore," he said.

De's fucking guys, I tells ya.

Mar 29, 2011#252

DarkAudit

So can that judge start tossing officials in the slammer for contempt?

Mar 29, 2011#253

jwhouk

No, they're protected while the legislature is in session.

Get ready, Krisken. We might have shoe #3 dropping shortly: word has it that Walker might restart the "laying off employees" thing again if the budget can't be "fixed".

Mar 29, 2011#254

Krisken

Wow, what a crock of shit. Honestly, I feel sorry for the people who are still buying his bullshit about budgets.

Mar 30, 2011#255

DarkAudit

jwhouk said:
No, they're protected while the legislature is in session.

That goes for the officials who aren't part of the legislature too?

Mar 30, 2011#256

Chibibar

jwhouk said:
No, they're protected while the legislature is in session.

Get ready, Krisken. We might have shoe #3 dropping shortly: word has it that Walker might restart the "laying off employees" thing again if the budget can't be "fixed".

#3? I thought Walker just drop a boat load of shoes at this point.
Looks like he and his GOP buddies are just ignoring the basic government check and balance all together!

Mar 30, 2011#257

Krisken

Well, that's the thing, they're claiming it isn't up to the courts to uphold state laws regarding open meetings and how they affect legislation. The disconnect is truly astounding.

Mar 30, 2011#258

Tress

Krisken said:
Well, that's the thing, they're claiming it isn't up to the courts to uphold state laws regarding open meetings and how they affect legislation. The disconnect is truly astounding.

But... that... that's the whole point of the courts! What the fuck do you mean it isn't up to them?! It's like saying that it's not the state legislature's job to come up with new laws.

Mar 30, 2011#259

Chibibar

Tress said:
But... that... that's the whole point of the courts! What the fuck do you mean it isn't up to them?! It's like saying that it's not the state legislature's job to come up with new laws.

maybe there is a law/rules/something saying that the courts can't uphold the legislature's procedure law? (I'm making stuff up cause I haven't got a clue)

I thought (so we were taught in government class) Executive (Governor) enforce the law, Legislature makes the law, and judicial interpret/uphold the law.

Mar 30, 2011#260

Tress

Yes, this is a tangent, but it doesn't really deserve its own thread:
Wisconsin congressman Sean Duffy complains about his $174,000 salary being too low.

Poor guy.

Mar 30, 2011#261

jwhouk

Well, what can you expect from a governor who didn't graduate from college?

Mar 30, 2011#262

jwhouk

Woohoo, we're number one in something! :Leyla:

Apr 1, 2011#263

AshburnerX

Ohio Legislature passes it's own Union busting bill, to be signed into law within the week.

Honestly, I've never been so sick of this state as I am right now. Can't wait until I'm finally able to leave it and never return.

Apr 1, 2011#264

Necronic

Krisken said:
Well, that's the thing, they're claiming it isn't up to the courts to uphold state laws regarding open meetings and how they affect legislation. The disconnect is truly astounding.
.

Guys, if you want people to take you seriously you should at least read the articles that you are linking:

Richard Esenberg (some law professor) said he was not surprised by the ruling but criticized the judge.
"There is applicable Supreme Court precedent that a court has no authority to enjoin the publication of a law," he said. "The state has repeatedly cited that law to her and as far as I know she has not only failed to explain herself about why she feels she has the authority, she hasn't even acknowledged there is an issue. That just leaves me speechless."
Esenberg was referring to a 1943 state Supreme Court opinion that said courts could not interfere with legislation until it is published and becomes law.

Pretty clear grounds for what they are doing. Are they right? I don't know, but it's not black and white. If you actually care about this issue then don't selectively ignore stuff. The worst thing you can do for your position is to not acknowlege clear and strong arguments that support the opponents, makes it look like the only way you can be right is by gagging the opposition.

Apr 1, 2011#265

Krisken

Yeah, I have a hard time with that. They are saying that if they don't follow the rules for bringing a bill to law, then nothing can be done about it until it has been printed.

She's not ruling on the law itself yet, but whether the process by which they created it was legal.

This is NOT the same thing.

Apr 1, 2011#266

Krisken

Enough signatures have been gathered for the recall of Senator Dan Kapanke. It only took 33 days to gather the 21,700 signatures they turned in, just a smidge above the 15,588 required to begin the recall.

Apr 1, 2011#267

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
Enough signatures have been gathered for the recall of Senator Dan Kapanke. It only took 33 days to gather the 21,700 signatures they turned in, just a smidge above the 15,588 required to begin the recall.

So what happens now? If a recall election is ongoing, does he still get to represent his voters until the election? Or is he unable to vote until the recall because it is apparent that his constitutes have lost faith in him?

Apr 1, 2011#268

jwhouk

Oh boy, I should know this one, since I remember the Petak recall... I think he continues until someone runs against him.

Apr 3, 2011#269

jwhouk

Sanity may be returning: Judge rules "collective bargaining rights cannot be overturned by governmental edict"

Oooh, I can not WAIT for the NLRB to get a hold of that "Budget Repair Bill".

Apr 4, 2011#270

DarkAudit

That ruling was before Walker took office, yes? Wouldn't someone on their side know something like that was out there, or were they hoping no one would notice?

I'm not going to link it, because a) it's behind a paywall, and 2) just the headline makes me nauseous, but a letter writer to my local paper accuses the WI protestors of treason.

I see now where the samples were taken to name WV the stupidest state. Dominion Post letter writers.

Apr 4, 2011#271

jwhouk

If the move can be blocked through June, I should be okay (financially/job-wise). Beyond that, who knows.

Apr 4, 2011#272

Chibibar

jwhouk said:
Sanity may be returning: Judge rules "collective bargaining rights cannot be overturned by governmental edict"

Oooh, I can not WAIT for the NLRB to get a hold of that "Budget Repair Bill".

Oh, that is an interesting news. I didn't even know about that.

Apr 4, 2011#273

Krisken

If we are so broke, why did this kid get an $80,000 per year job he was unqualified for? Apparently, in the Walker administration having no degree, almost no management experience, and 2 drunk driving convictions means you are not only qualified to oversee environmental and regulatory matters and dozens of employees at the DoC, but also should involve a promotion and a 26% pay raise.

Apr 4, 2011#274

SpecialKO

Maybe he's afflicted with savant syndrome? Maybe he's done "great things"? I guess it could be possible.

It does smell to high heaven, though. A 25% (16K) raise after 2 months? The guys I know who started at 60K+ (all Wall St. folks) didn't get raises that fast, and they actually made people a lot of money.

Apr 4, 2011#275

Krisken

SpecialKO said:
Maybe he's afflicted with savant syndrome? Maybe he's done "great things"? I guess it could be possible.

It does smell to high heaven, though. A 25% (16K) raise after 2 months? The guys I know who started at 60K+ (all Wall St. folks) didn't get raises that fast, and they actually made people a lot of money.

Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with this:

His father is Jerry Deschane, executive vice president and longtime lobbyist for the Madison-based Wisconsin Builders Association, which bet big on Walker during last year's governor's race.
The group's political action committee gave $29,000 to Walker and his running mate, Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch, last year, making it one of the top five PAC donors to the governor's successful campaign. Even more impressive, members of the trade group funneled more than $92,000 through its conduit to Walker's campaign over the past two years.
Total donations: $121,652.

Apr 4, 2011#276

SpecialKO

Couldn't possibly. Perish the very thought.

Just sayin', unlikely as it is, if he's actually doing a stellar, amazing job...

Apr 5, 2011#277

Krisken

Well, today is special election day in Wisconsin. Time to decide if we are going to elect a Supreme Court Justice the Koch brothers want or vote for the woman who said she doesn't agree with the Walker agenda.

Apr 5, 2011#278

jwhouk

I voted. Kloppenberg FTW.

Apr 5, 2011#279

Krisken

So did I. Then the other slots I didn't know I voted my friends. I think my best friend would make a great district court judge, never mind the lack of a law degree.

I also had a chance to sign up to recall Glenn Grothman, the schmuck who is supposedly representing me as my state senator.

Apr 6, 2011#280

jwhouk

Wow... only a 1.6k difference in votes, and not all of Milwaukee and Marathon counties are in yet.

EDIT: If the remaining precincts in the counties with less than 100% reporting follow existing percentages, the vote might end up being less than a 1,000 total votes of difference. Wow.

Apr 6, 2011#281

jwhouk

0.1% difference in the vote totals, with 98.5% of all precincts reporting.

And guess what county has the most precincts not reporting as of the current time? (hint: MKE)

Apr 6, 2011#282

Krisken

Yeah, saw that. No matter who wins the election, expect a recount.

Apr 6, 2011#283

jwhouk

According to the AP, with all but 34 precincts reporting, Prosser is up by only 585 votes.

585 votes. Hear that, Mr. Walker?

Apr 6, 2011#284

Tress

jwhouk said:
According to the AP, with all but 34 precincts reporting, Prosser is up by only 585 votes.

585 votes. Hear that, Mr. Walker?

Sounds like 585 patriotic Americans are standing up to liberal-commie union dogs whose only purpose is to drain the state dry. We all know how those evil teachers are.

Apr 6, 2011#285

Krisken

Tress said:
Sounds like 585 patriotic Americans are standing up to liberal-commie union dogs whose only purpose is to drain the state dry. We all know how those evil teachers are.

Yeah, dirty teachers getting in the way of all that wealth that needs to go to the corporations so they can trickle it back down on the rest of us.

Apr 6, 2011#286

jwhouk

This is getting weird. Apparently, the AP says that one precinct hasn't reported in Madison, but the Dane County website says all precincts have reported...

Apr 6, 2011#287

jwhouk

Based on what Crawford and Dunn counties have on their websites, and based on the Dane County totals (which may not be complete), Prosser is leading by a scant 356 votes.

Some perspective: there are only 72 counties in the state of Wisconsin. In those 72 counties are 3,630 wards where people vote. All but 30-34 of those wards have reported their final votes in the SC election.

The difference between the two is roughly five votes per county, or one extra vote for every 10 wards in the state.

Apr 6, 2011#288

Krisken

Associated Press said:
JoAnne Kloppenburg leads Justice David Prosser on Wednesday morning by just 369 votes of the nearly 1.5 million cast. Ninety-nine percent of precincts have reported results.

Damn, that is crazy close.

Apr 6, 2011#289

Adammon

jwhouk said:
According to the AP, with all but 34 precincts reporting, Prosser is up by only 585 votes.

585 votes. Hear that, Mr. Walker?

If I can be so bold, the fact that Prosser is even winning, let alone by 585 votes should be very disheartening. There was a MASSIVE uprising and the general consensus was that Prosser had no chance in hell of winning. It sounds like the quiet majority may have had some different feelings about Mr Walker than your take on it.

Apr 6, 2011#290

Krisken

Adammon said:
If I can be so bold, the fact that Prosser is even winning, let alone by 585 votes should be very disheartening. There was a MASSIVE uprising and the general consensus was that Prosser had no chance in hell of winning. It sounds like the quiet majority may have had some different feelings about Mr Walker than your take on it.

You'd be very wrong. Kloppenburg is an unknown, she was down more than 30 points a couple weeks ago, Wisconsin has only twice voted out a sitting state Supreme Court member, and the GOP outspent the Democrat 3 to 2. I'd say that is amazing.

Apr 6, 2011#291

Adammon

Krisken said:
You'd be very wrong. Kloppenburg is an unknown, she was down more than 30 points a couple weeks ago, Wisconsin has only twice voted out a sitting state Supreme Court member, and the GOP outspent the Democrat 3 to 2. I'd say that is amazing.

As I remember, a couple of weeks ago there was some event that galvanized a massive swarm of people against a sitting Republican governor making a stupid law. It shouldn't be close.

Apr 6, 2011#292

Krisken

Adammon said:
As I remember, a couple of weeks ago there was some event that galvanized a massive swarm of people against a sitting Republican governor making a stupid law. It shouldn't be close.

I think you are forgetting something. This is a Judicial race. Judges on the Supreme court are supposed to be non-partisan. Want a referendum? The Milwaukee County Executive seat race went handily to the Democrat. This was the position that was held by Walker before he became Governor. That, and I'm not even sure I would have voted for the Democrat. Believe me, he's nothing to get excited about.

Apr 6, 2011#293

Adammon

Krisken said:
I think you are forgetting something. This is a Judicial race. Judges on the Supreme court are supposed to be non-partisan. Want a referendum? The Milwaukee County Executive seat race went handily to the Democrat. This was the position that was held by Walker before he became Governor. That, and I'm not even sure I would have voted for the Democrat. Believe me, he's nothing to get excited about.

I don't think anyone thinks this was a non-partisan race, at all. Especially with signs like this:

Apr 6, 2011#294

Krisken

Ok, I stand corrected by a sign. That takes all my points and makes them moot.

Apr 6, 2011#295

Adammon

Krisken said:
Ok, I stand corrected by a sign. That takes all my points and makes them moot.

Ok Mr Snarky Pants. It's still a little naive to say that a judicial race in such a politically charged climate is non-partisan. You had Queen of Stupidity Sarah Palin Herself put out a message of support for Prosser.

Apr 6, 2011#296

Espy

Adammon said:
Ok Mr Snarky Pants.

I believe that's actually "Señor Snarky Pants" to you.

Apr 6, 2011#297

Adammon

Espy said:
I believe that's actually "Señor Snarky Pants" to you.

When you're that big, they call you Mister.

Apr 6, 2011#298

Krisken

Adammon said:
When you're that big, they call you Mister.

You callin me fat?

Yeah, I got a little snarky. I don't think you can take a race where the person who came back from all those negatives and end up with a virtual tie didn't fulfill expectations on an angry populous. I also don't think that most Wisconsinites buy that Prosser is somehow involved with the move Walker made, and he has said he doesn't agree with the bill. While this is probably just lip service, it says a lot that as many people still took it that way.

Apr 6, 2011#299

jwhouk

Here is how close this vote is:

Last night, the Brewers finally won a game on the season, over the Braves. The boxscore says that there were 24,117 fans in the stands last night. Now, stick with me here, there's a reason. Imagine that about, oh, three-quarters of those fans were Wisconsin residents of legal voting age. That's roughly 18,000 fans.

If you had the ability to canvass all of the fans who went through the turnstiles last night, and asked them who they voted for in the SC election, it is likely - based upon the actual voting results - that Kloppenburg would win by a margin of three or four votes.

Ponder that for a moment: three people in the stands, maybe four, who were the difference in a state-wide election. You would have more fans who caught a foul ball than were the difference between the two candidates.

Yes, this was for a "non-partisan" election*. Yes, this is a historic situation for a judiciary race. But, to realize that the difference in the voting was roughly one vote's difference in 5,000 (0.02%) - simply boggles the mind.

* - It should be pointed out that Judge Prosser was a Republican member of the Wisconsin State Assembly (essentially the "lower house" of the state legislature, analogous to the House of Representatives) for 18 years prior - and ran for a House seat in 1996 as well, before being named to the Wisconsin Supreme court in 1998 by Tommy Thompson. He is about as "non-partisan" as Rush Limbaugh.

Apr 7, 2011#300

Krisken

It isn't over. Prosser somehow magically gained 7,500 votes from the city of Brookfield, which is in Waukesha County and leans heavily Republican. The woman being interviewed on the radio is stressing that these aren't new votes, but votes that were somehow missed when the auditing process began.

Wouldn't you know it, 7500 is just enough to put the vote at over 0.5%. Just enough to make any recount by the challenger need to be paid for out of her own pocket.

Apr 7, 2011#301

SpecialKO

That is some suspicious as hell timing.

Apr 7, 2011#302

AshburnerX

You know what's BULLSHIT? All of this. And I imagine the DNC will be more than willing to pay for the recount... right after they start suing everyone.

Apr 7, 2011#303

Adammon

Florida 2000. Told ya

Apr 7, 2011#304

Krisken

Look at this... not the first time in recent memory of shenanigans in Waukesha.... by the same woman.

And more... here

[/quote]Nickolaus was given immunity from prosecution in a 2002 criminal investigation into illegal activity by members of the assembly Republican Caucus. She worked for 13 years as a data analyst and computer specialist for the caucus.[/quote]

I was skeptical before, but now I'm downright angry. It doesn't get much dirtier than this.

Apr 7, 2011#305

jwhouk

Boy, am I glad I'm moving away from this... what? what's that?

Marathon County "found votes"?

And... Merrill city administrator resigns?

Oh great, out of the frying pan...

May 5, 2011#306

Krisken

New development in the recall efforts by the GOP- according to the Democratic party of Wisconsin, a large number of signatures have been found to be fraudulent, either by the respondent being misled or never having signed the petitions.

Some of the cases and examples of election fraud outlined in the formal recall challenge of GOP petitions to be filed this afternoon include:

Senate District 12: Of the 534 people contacted who had signed the petition, 9.2% indicated they were misled into signing the petition or asserted they had never signed.

Senate District 22: Of the 225 people contacted who had signed the petition, 6.6% indicated they were misled into signing the petition or asserted they had never signed.

Senate District 30: Of the 372 people contacted who had signed the petition, 8.6% indicated they were misled into signing the petition or asserted they had never signed.

Affidavit of a World War II veteran from Green Bay who was misled into signing a recall petition. Upon learning he had been duped, veteran called the sheriff to get his name removed. When confronted, the circulator claims he will remove the name, but a later review of the petitions reveals the veteran's name was never crossed off.

Many affidavits attesting that Circulator Sherri Ferrell - who gathered nearly 3,000 signatures in two districts -- gathered signatures on Indian reservations claiming petitions were to support "schools," "Democrats," and "tribal rights."

Affidavit of voter in Senate District 22 attesting that circulator John Prijic claimed the petitions were for work to be done on a local park.

Affidavit of voter in Senate District 30 attesting that circulator Annette Lord claimed the petitions were to recall Republican Senator Cowles.

Affidavit of voter in Senate District 30 attesting that circulator Richard Madrill claimed the petitions were to recall Republican Gov. Scott Walker.

William Pocan’s forged name appears on line 10, page 362 of circulator Kevin Pursell’s petition. As his widow Corinne Pocan’s affidavit attests, William Pocan has been deceased 20 years, although his name remains in the phone book. Pursell circulated numerous pages.

Claims by many Wisconsin citizens who were misled by out-of-state circulators who claimed they could sign on behalf of other people.

Numerous examples of fake addresses and signatures appearing on GOP recall petitions, as well as sloppily gathered signatures also missing critical information.

Summary of out-of-state circulators hired by GOP with largest percentages of fraud or deception on GOP recall petitions:

That is a lot of errors. Did they really think no one would check?

May 5, 2011#307

Chibibar

So... GOP is cheating?

May 5, 2011#308

Krisken

Chibibar said:
So... GOP is cheating?

So it would appear.

May 5, 2011#309

AshburnerX

I'd be willing to believe that a good number of the names were fake (who hasn't signed a petition with a fake and humorous name at least once in their life times?) but ten percent seems a little high. However, that's no excuse for the outright lying.

Dec 6, 2011#310

Krisken

Walker is at it again, turning groups of more than 4 at the capitol building to require a permit.

I shit you not.

Dec 7, 2011#311

jwhouk

By the way, Krisken - signed a petition yet?

Dec 7, 2011#312

Krisken

You bet I did. I'm just hoping that the shenanigans going on doesn't prevent his recall. There was an arrest here in town of a man destroying a recall form by scribbling all over it. Plus, the idiot state attorney general saying that people can't print recall forms and send them in is a crock of shit. Honestly, these people disgust me.

Dec 8, 2011#313

jwhouk

You can be both a signer and a circulator. Van Hoohah can say what he wants, the state law says otherwise.

Dec 13, 2011#314

AshburnerX

Walker flounders since the Rail money went to California.

Basically, Walker is kind fucked at the moment. He denied the railway money because it earned him political points and he was banking on being able to convince the government to divert it to bridges and roads, but they didn't and now the state is defaulting on contracts that the money would have covered. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Dec 13, 2011#315

Krisken

What's sad is the Walker-bots would still scream their heads off on how this was a wonderful move. What a waste.

Dec 14, 2011#316

Necronic

AshburnerX said:
Walker flounders since the Rail money went to California.

Basically, Walker is kind fucked at the moment. He denied the railway money because it earned him political points and he was banking on being able to convince the government to divert it to bridges and roads, but they didn't and now the state is defaulting on contracts that the money would have covered. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Owned.

Jan 17, 2012#317

Krisken

Over 1 million signatures were collected for the recall of Scott Walker.

Jan 18, 2012#318

@Li3n

Krisken said:
Over 1 million signatures were collected for the recall of Scott Walker.

Consequences will never be the same again...

Jan 18, 2012#319

jwhouk

It's significant because he received 1.1 million votes in the general election.

Jan 18, 2012#320

jwhouk

Dane County Executive Katherine Falk has declared her candidacy for Governor of Wisconsin.

Jan 18, 2012#321

Espy

Just out of curiosity, I heard someone from WI mention this is something like the 3rd election now in almost as many years and that some of them were recall elections as well? Any idea how much this is costing the state?

Jan 19, 2012#322

Krisken

Supposedly $9 million dollars. I know myself and the other million signers would be happy to add a $10 bill to remove this schmuck from office.

Jan 19, 2012#323

DarkAudit

Steinman won't pay jack.

Jan 19, 2012#324

jwhouk

I pay $18 every other week to get this guy out of office...

Jan 20, 2012#325

jwhouk

So, you wanna see what democracy really looks like?

Take a gander at this webcam. If you ever wondered what it looked like to count over a million recall petitions, this is what it looks like.

Jan 20, 2012#326

@Li3n

jwhouk said:
So, you wanna see what democracy really looks like?

Take a gander at this webcam. If you ever wondered what it looked like to count over a million recall petitions, this is what it looks like.

That's not how democracy looks like, that's how a lack of robot servants does... and no jet packs either... man, the future sucks.

Jan 20, 2012#327

Krisken

Someone argued with me yesterday about some guy being investigated for admitting he signed 80 different petitions (what the hell, how do you find time for this?) and that meant that there probably isn't enough signatures for a recall. His leap was so far I just said "what?" and watched him fall into the grand canyon chasm of logic.

Jan 20, 2012#328

jwhouk

80? That'd actually be impressive if he did it, because it would mean he would have had to find Eighty different canvassers over a period of about 65 to 70 days, since the first petitions weren't even AVAILABLE until Nov. 7 or so, and they were all due in to the Recall Walker HQ by the 9th...

Jan 20, 2012#329

Krisken

Yeah, that's what I thought. Plus they attempted to remove any duplicate names before turning the petitions in.

Jan 20, 2012#330

jwhouk

And let's not forget there was Christmas and New Years there.

Jan 20, 2012#331

Bowielee

I've recieved no less than 8 flyers in the last two weeks trying to urge me not to sign a petition to recall Walker. I had signed a patition at least 2 months ago.

Jan 20, 2012#332

Krisken

Did they give reasons not to sign them? I didn't see those, so I'm curious what they said.

Jan 20, 2012#333

Bowielee

The major thrust of them have been that he's "followed through on his promises" and that's why everyone's mad at him. Also that he single handedly got rid of the states budget deficit.

Jan 20, 2012#334

Krisken

He got rid of a problem that didn't exist. Well, congrats to him!

Jan 21, 2012#335

Bowielee

Yeah, it was pretty much all BS.

Jan 21, 2012#336

jwhouk

Meanwhile, we keep losing jobs, and he blames the statisticians.

Seems the only thing he knows how to count is votes.

Jan 21, 2012#337

Krisken

That was another good one "He promised to bring new jobs to Wisconsin, so I voted for him"
A year later- "Well, he can't do anything about the jobs, so you can't blame him." Utter bull shit.

Jan 21, 2012#338

jwhouk

When the numbers say more jobs have been created, he's all over them. When they say they haven't, he (or the surrogate Palin Clone Rebecca) attacks the data.

...meanwhile, they're still counting the signatures.

EDIT: Maybe not. Looks like they don't have anyone in on weekends.

EDIT 2: I was wrong - they do work weekends, but not before 7 CST apparently. And not a full crew.

Jan 24, 2012#339

jwhouk

I have a nagging concern that I'm almost afraid to ask:

Let's say the recalls all come through, and the Dems not only re-take the governor's mansion, but they also re-take the senate. (They're miles and miles away from taking the assembly; I believe the GOP holds a significant edge in that house.)

Here's my question - and it affects me directly: How in the world does the new governor undo Act 10 and the ensuing crap that has occurred since?

Feb 1, 2012#340

jwhouk

Wisconsin's new favorite Web-based game: FIND YOUR SIGNATURE!

http://webapps.wi.gov/sites/recall/Recall Petitions/Governor/

Feb 1, 2012#341

Krisken

I'm not a fan of the addresses being available for viewing. I think that's a mistake and will cause a backlash from the less civil people in society.

And just out of curiosity, why are there so many scandals surrounding Walker? He's done a masterful job of avoiding being implicated in any of them, but what the hell. When the John Doe thing started I was like "Ok, that can't be Walker's fault, they didn't find anything to do with him directly." Before that there was the nonsense involving the security guards who were 'laid off' and replaced with non union guards and the county of Milwaukee had to go back and pay those union guys who were wrongfully let go. Then the scandal involving former employees illegally campaigning for Walker during work hours came out and I started thinking "Wait, another thing on the outskirts of Walker..."

Honestly, the shit just keeps piling up, and I hope like hell they soon find something connected to this guy. No one has this much crap this close to them and doesn't have their hands in it somehow.

Feb 1, 2012#342

DarkAudit

Follow the money.

Feb 1, 2012#343

jwhouk

On that subject, I think I saw at least two or three "Koch"s on the signature lists...

I only got a chance to look at about maybe 100 of them before my brain said , "Uh, thanks, no". The petitions are scanned into PDF's of 50 petitions each, and not all of them have full petition sheets. That'd mean about 250 signatures (roughly) per PDF.

There are over 4,000 pages of these PDF's.

Feb 8, 2012#344

jwhouk

Submitted without comment (I'll let GasBandit and Krisken talk about it instead):

http://www.walkerinvestigation.com/

Feb 8, 2012#345

Krisken

I was talking with a woman at work and she said "I worked with the county clerk's office for 30 years. You don't get a criminal and civil lawyer unless you are guilty of something illegal and are worried you're gonna get caught."

Feb 9, 2012#346

jwhouk

Krisken, when did we fall asleep and wake up in Illinois, anyways?

Feb 9, 2012#347

Krisken

jwhouk said:
Krisken, when did we fall asleep and wake up in Illinois, anyways?

Hah, that's a good question. All I can think is that Chicago politicians migrated north for the last couple years.

Feb 9, 2012#348

ElJuski

fuck you guys

Feb 9, 2012#349

Krisken

Hey, you can have 'em back if you want.

Feb 9, 2012#350

ElJuski

finders keepers man

Feb 9, 2012#351

Krisken

Damn, that never works!

Feb 9, 2012#352

ElJuski

actually, since I don't even live there anymore, the whole state can just get sucked into a crater. Except for the cool parts of the city itself. That can stay.

Feb 9, 2012#353

Krisken

ElJuski said:
actually, since I don't even live there anymore, the whole state can just get sucked into a crater. Except for the cool parts of the city itself. That can stay.

I should have stuck with just Illinois in general. They have a worse record of corruption than the city of Chicago. Hell, being governor of Illinois means you have a 50% rate of going to jail.

And yes, Chicago is fantastic. I hope I can go to Roditys again and get a gyro. Opa!

Feb 9, 2012#354

jwhouk

I'd just start by nuking the corner of Addison and Clark.

Feb 9, 2012#355

ElJuski

fuck the cubs

Feb 10, 2012#356

Krisken

Jesus fucking christ, this guy just doesn't get it.

Feb 10, 2012#357

jwhouk

Watch out Krisken - the robo-calls have begun. I just got one less than an hour ago, listed as "PRIVATE CALLER".
Added at: 15:47

Krisken said:
Jesus fucking christ, this guy just doesn't get it.

In case those of you not living in the PRoSW don't understand why "taking the money and running with it" is so bad in this case:

In the past, Walker has been sharply critical of using so-called "one-time" money from legal settlements to balance the state budget. He defended his own use of this settlement money Thursday by saying this time it was different since the foreclosure crisis had a "direct impact on the economy."

Feb 10, 2012#358

Krisken

Ooohh, do they say how wonderful Walker is and how he's doing great things for the state? Like losing millions of much needed train money, or having a shortfall despite fucking over unions supposedly in the interest of 'saving money'?

Seriously, though, I'd love to know what they're saying just so I can find all the information that calls it out as BS before my Walker loving friend pulls it out of his ass.

Feb 10, 2012#359

jwhouk

Before I hit "message deleted", it was the usual "creating jobs and lowering taxes".

I do have to admit something, though - I got WAY more back in terms of refund from the state than I did the Feds.

Feb 10, 2012#360

Krisken

Heh, well there is that then.

Feb 11, 2012#361

Bowielee

Krisken said:
Heh, well there is that then.

Yeah, I live on the border between Minnesota and Wisconsin, which no longer has reciprocity , so I have to pay taxes for 2 states. Seeing as we have no jobs available on this side of the bridge, I don't have much of a choice.

I also can't wait for my state grants to be cut next year for financial aid. you know that's coming.

Fuck Walker, fuck him right up his self-riteous anus.

Feb 11, 2012#362

Krisken

Hey, you're taking our jerbs!!!

Geez, that sucks, though. Paying taxes twice seems crazy to me. I'm blown away that there could be a situation like that in any nation where you would have to pay separate taxes on the same earnings to multiple municipalities. Crazy.

Feb 11, 2012#363

Bowielee

I live in Wisconsin, so technichally, I'm taking THEIR jobs, not ours

Feb 11, 2012#364

Krisken

Oh, right. I mean, hey, you're taking their jerbs! Wait, that's ok though.

Feb 11, 2012#365

ncts_dodge_man

That's stupid that they stopped the reciprocity for you Bowie - completely stupid.

I am formerly from corrupt-town USA (IL) now live just outside of Mad-town (near Sun Prairie but still in Dane county) - it was interesting driving through downtown last year and seeing all of the protesters - lots of them going up and down State Street (for those of you who don't know, State St in Madison is pedestrian or buses only traffic).

Then the recall people seemed to spring up almost everywhere I drove around in Madison or Sun Prairie.

Feb 11, 2012#366

jwhouk

They're going to stretch out the recall signature counts as far as they can, until a court says "enough".

Any reasonable person in this land would look at the sheer numbers of those scanned-in signature sheets and would say, "yeah, I think they got more than enough signatures."

Unfortunately, we haven't had reasonable people in Madison since Kennedy was president. (And even then, it was debatable.)

Feb 11, 2012#367

Krisken

I was wondering what William J. Le Petomane's next move would be.

Feb 11, 2012#368

jwhouk

They want the recall election to be held in conjunction with the Presidential election in November. IOW, the great anti-Obama referendum.

Feb 11, 2012#369

Krisken

I'm guessing under the guise of "saving the state money"?

Feb 11, 2012#370

jwhouk

No, to make sure they're "diligent" in reviewing ALL of the signatures.

So they know who to robo-call every eight hours as soon as the election proceeds.

Feb 11, 2012#371

Krisken

Yeah, that wouldn't hold up if our State Supreme Court wasn't corrupt as hell.

Feb 11, 2012#372

jwhouk

And they're not busy trying to strangle each other.

EDIT: And as soon as I hit "POST", I realized, "Oh my God, we really do live in Illinois now."

Feb 11, 2012#373

Krisken

Oh, and they of course couldn't agree on what happened. I swear, that whole thing made me sadder for our state than just about anything else so far.

Feb 12, 2012#374

jwhouk

You know, I had to drive past the Country Springs Hotel in Waukesha on election night - where Walker was holding his victory party.

I had this deep sense of foreboding as I did so.

I hope to never get that feeling ever again.

Feb 12, 2012#375

Hailey Knight

I have no idea what's going on, but I'm sure as hell glad I don't live where you guys live.

Feb 12, 2012#376

jwhouk

It's the sound of an entire state being flushed down the toilet.

Feb 17, 2012#377

DarkAudit

Hack reporter mistakes Wisconsin state flag for a union flag.

Feb 17, 2012#378

Covar

ah labor union. That makes more sense.

Feb 17, 2012#379

jwhouk

Heh. "Local 1848". I wouldn't mind being a member of that one.

Too bad I'm only a member of Local 15 6.

Feb 17, 2012#380

Krisken

Holy crap on a cracker.

Feb 17, 2012#381

Krisken

Leave it to Walker to answer the question nobody had posed, making him sound guilty in the process.

The Shepard has a fantastic article, despite how slanted the paper is. It's hard to find a collection of all the scandals floating around the governor other than here.

Feb 17, 2012#382

jwhouk

I really do NOT like what I saw there at the end of the Shepherd Express article.

You don't think that, maybe the day before the election, he resigns as governor - making Rebecca Palin... er, I mean, Kleefisch, our new governor?

And then the lawsuits promptly begin?

Feb 17, 2012#383

Krisken

With this administration? I'd be surprised if they didn't.

Oh, and don't know if you saw this, but it will make you sick to your stomach about democracy in WI.

Feb 17, 2012#384

DarkAudit

You realize that today's elders in the GOP made their bones as young guns in the Nixon years, don't you?

Feb 17, 2012#385

jwhouk

Krisken said:
With this administration? I'd be surprised if they didn't.

Oh, and don't know if you saw this, but it will make you sick to your stomach about democracy in WI.

I already saw that. BTW, since the JSonline went to a pay-for-play site after X number of articles, I've stopped reading their stuff. Besides, I obviously don't live in the SEW anymore. (Sadly. That's one thing no one replacing Scottie Boy would change.)

And yes, DA, I do realize that we're dealing with second generation Nixonites.

Feb 17, 2012#386

Krisken

Heh, sorry. I can only focus on the super crazy stuff since I deliver that paper.

Feb 17, 2012#387

DarkAudit

I feel for ya. The local paper here is run by a teabagger who keeps throwing his money at senate runs. Eventually someone with more money than I will challenge the dude's residency. He should really be considered a resident of FL instead of WV.

Feb 17, 2012#388

jwhouk

The advantage I have living up here is that the WDH is a Gannett enterprise, which means they're relatively balanced.

Feb 17, 2012#389

Krisken

Here ya go, more out of state jack-asses trying to influence the recall.

Hey jwhouk, maybe this is why it feels like we suddenly woke up in Illinois.

Feb 18, 2012#390

Bowielee

UGH, will they just get this doucher out of office already. He's already set a dangerous precident, with destroying collective bargaining rights of educators. He's also surrounded by a crapstorm of illegal activity.

I love how they are portraying the educators of wisconsin as a group of overpaid, money hungry jackals. Yeah, because teachers make SOOO much money.

Feb 26, 2012#391

jwhouk

The only thing that Wisconsin Dems and the GOP can agree upon?

Designating December 12, 2012 as... well, you guess. (Hint: this guy is the reason)

Mar 13, 2012#392

Krisken

Well look at that. Scott Walker is the Governor of the state which had the worst decline in jobs in the last 12 months. If it is working, Governor, what the hell was your goal?

Mar 13, 2012#393

ElJuski

I thought the This American Life about jobs--I think it was called, "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs"--is pretty great, with an awesome inside scoop on the Governor's office and how politicians saying they can create "jobs" is a whooole lotta bullshit.

Mar 14, 2012#394

Krisken

That show is fantastic in general, so it comes as no surprise to me they covered that issue well. The budget cut argument was really well covered recently as well.

What saddens me is how often the politicians use something like jobs to cut jobs and enact legislation which only hurts the people they are pretending to help. Anyone with half a brain could see through the union busting bill as being partisan hackery.

Mar 14, 2012#395

jwhouk

Well, you know that his plan cost me my job (technically)...

Mar 14, 2012#396

Krisken

Apparently government jobs aren't jobs to these nitwits. Oh, and cutting those when unemployment is up is a brilliant plan.

Mar 14, 2012#397

Gared

Of course it's a brilliant plan. If we keep paying so much of our government money to all of those unnecessary government employees, it cuts back on the amount of money we can funnel to the job creating ultra-rich! Obviously, the best thing we could do to ensure that everyone who wants a job can get a job, and to revitalize the economy, is to fire everyone in government not related to determining what people can do in their bedrooms and give all of the money that we're currently wasting on things like roads and correctional facilities and FEMA to someone who can actually do something useful with that money, like investing in foreign oil or coal plants in China (which, if I recall correctly, was part of what lead to a massive round of layoffs at Alliant Energy back in the mid 2000's).

Mar 17, 2012#398

Krisken

Republican State Senator Pam Galloway, who is under recall, has decided to resign. The most interesting part of this is because she is successfully forced into a recall the Governor can NOT assign someone to take her place during the time between now and the day of the recall election. What does this mean? It means the Wisconsin State Senate is now tied in Democrats and Republicans. Republicans are no longer in charge of the Senate and control is being shared equally between the two parties.

This has never happened in the state, so things should really be interesting from here on out.

Mar 17, 2012#399

Cheesy1

Time to pull out an oldie but goodie:

Mar 17, 2012#400

jwhouk

We should also point out to our out-of-state participants that the State Legislature is now what they consider "out of session" - that is, they are adjourned for essentially the rest of the year, and (theoretically) cannot pass or change any further legislation, without orders from Scottie Boy.

Also, there's talk that one or two of the assembly reps that are in Galloway's district may vie for her spot - which could theoretically chip away at the GOP's Assembly numbers. However, the GOP holds 20 more seats than the Dems over in the Assembly, so they'd need several more assembly-types to lose their seats in running for the senate - which ain't likely.

Mar 17, 2012#401

jwhouk

By the way - you find your name over at iVerifyTheRecall yet, Krisken?

I have.

EDIT: And now that I know where to look, I found the PDF, too.

Mar 17, 2012#402

Norris

jwhouk said:
We should also point out to our out-of-state participants that the State Legislature is now what they consider "out of session" - that is, they are adjourned for essentially the rest of the year, and (theoretically) cannot pass or change any further legislation, without orders from Scottie Boy.

But....it's MARCH! What the hell? How do we have a system where one third of the government can take ten months off?

Mar 17, 2012#403

Krisken

Ok, I know this is just a blog, but it really happened, I promise. Remember state supreme court judge David Prosser, the guy who choked another judge, called her a bitch and threatened to destroy her? Yeah, that guy was charged with 3 ethics violations.

Some of the best quotes by the author of the blog:

In the Republican's War on Women, he must be a general or something.

Do we win that crazy crown yet? Our supreme court judges assault each other, single women with kids contribute to child abuse, and our governors scheduled time reads like a joke-

Mar 17, 2012#404

jwhouk

We took the Crazy State title the moment that the "Budget Repair Bill" hit the desks of legislators back in February of last year.

Mar 17, 2012#405

Krisken

jwhouk said:
We took the Crazy State title the moment that the "Budget Repair Bill" hit the desks of legislators back in February of last year.

I don't know, man. Michigan has been taking over cities under the guise of 'economic emergencies' and making a mockery of democracy. That is some hard competition.

Mar 17, 2012#406

Bowielee

Heh, I'm originally from Michigan and moved to Wisconsin, I'm screwed coming or going.

Mar 17, 2012#407

jwhouk

What's absolutely crazy is, the worse our government gets, the better our state sports teams seem to get. UW-W is going for its second major men's championship tonight in basketball, while UW and Marquette are battling it out to advance to the Sweet 16.

I shudder to think what would happen if the Walker Recall ended with a lawsuit, ala Bush v. Gore (2000). The Brewers might end up winning the World Series.

Mar 17, 2012#408

jwhouk

On an aside note, this taken from the Wisconsin State Journal, our state has won yet another award:

Black Hole
In honor of Sunshine Week, dedicated to celebrating open government and freedom of information, the national Society of Professional Journalists announced its "winners" of its annual Black Hole award, which aims to expose "the most heinous violations of the public's right to know."

The SPJ chose three winners, including ... the Wisconsin State Legislature!

The group smacked the Legislature over the way it passed the collective bargaining bill, the GOP's redistricting process and having members sign secrecy agreements, and its crackdown on the use of cameras in the Assembly.

Mar 21, 2012#409

Krisken

That's pretty crazy, jw.

But is this crazier?

Justice Prosser, the guy who tried to choke a fellow judge in her office after she told him to leave, is asking the other judges to recuse themselves because they were at the event and were witnesses.

Mar 21, 2012#410

AshburnerX

That's... not out of the question. They know he's guilty, having been at the event in question. Any trial they were part of would be marred by that fact alone.

They may have to get a judge from another district. On the plus side, the prosecution has an entire room full of witnesses that witnessed the event.

Mar 21, 2012#411

Krisken

AshburnerX said:
That's... not out of the question. They know he's guilty, having been at the event in question. Any trial they were part of would be marred by that fact alone.

They may have to get a judge from another district. On the plus side, the prosecution has an entire room full of witnesses that witnessed the event.

District? No, State Supreme Court Justices.

Mar 21, 2012#412

sixpackshaker

Norris said:
But....it's MARCH! What the hell? How do we have a system where one third of the government can take ten months off?

Ours takes an entire year off.

Mar 21, 2012#413

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
District? No, State Supreme Court Justices.

Really? Christ... *shakes his head in shame*

Again, not out of the question, but they may have to make an exception because they'll need someone to oversee the whole thing. It's ether that or get someone from out of state to oversee it.

Mar 21, 2012#414

Krisken

If they are recused, the issue will be stalled.

Embattled Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice David Prosser said Monday he will likely ask other members of the court to recuse themselves from deciding on the disciplinary complaint filed against him last week — an action that, if successful, would appear to kill the case.

Mar 21, 2012#415

AshburnerX

Who can he complain to if he wants them to step down? Unless the US Supreme Court is willing to step in, I don't think they can go higher and if the USSC DOES step in, why the fuck wouldn't they just rule on the case instead?

Mar 21, 2012#416

jwhouk

Because the US Supremes lean right.

Mar 21, 2012#417

Krisken

What's really upsetting about all this is this shouldn't even be a left vs. right thing. If we can't trust our judges to be impartial and honest about something that happened RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM without being partisan, what does that say about our nation and the way it is run?

Mar 22, 2012#418

Covar

Out of curiosity why does this need a judge at their level or higher to try this? Assault is assault.

Mar 22, 2012#419

Krisken

Covar said:
Out of curiosity why does this need a judge at their level or higher to try this? Assault is assault.

Because the prosecutor decided not to try the case, but the panel of judges who determine oversaw the ethics violation complaint disagreed. It's not a civil case, but a case of ethics violations.

Like I said, Wisconsin is REALLY fucked up right now.

Mar 22, 2012#420

jwhouk

That, sir, is the understatement of the century.

Mar 24, 2012#421

Bowielee

Here's the thing. I moved to Wisconsin because I like where I'm living right now, but as it stands, as soon as I'm done with my under-grad, I'm out of here.

Mar 25, 2012#422

jwhouk

I'd try to convince you that we're not all crazy like Scottie and Becky, but I'm no longer sure.

Mar 25, 2012#423

Bowielee

Oh, at this point, I consider Wisconsin my home more than Michigan, but with all that's going on now, screw this place.

Mar 25, 2012#424

jwhouk

Suppose I can't convince you to at least stick around until June 8th?

Mar 25, 2012#425

Bowielee

Well, basically, I'll have to go to whatever grad school will take me regardless of area. Maybe when I'm done with post grad I'll come back if all this tomfoolery is over by then.

Mar 26, 2012#426

Krisken

Holy fucking shit. I thought Grothman was the worst of the lot, but it seems Prideman is also looking to get in on the woman hating action.

Yahoo News said:
Instead of leaving an abusive situation, women should try to remember the things they love about their husbands, Representative Don Pridemore said. "If they can re-find those reasons and get back to why they got married in the first place it might help," he told a local news station.

Mar 26, 2012#427

Bowielee

Mar 29, 2012#428

jwhouk

GAB to order Recall Elections After Petition Signatures Okayed

And the quote of the day, from that article:

Fox6News said:
...In the end, there were 900,938 valid signatures on the Gov. Walker petition. Only 540,208 were needed to secure the recall election.

Mar 29, 2012#429

Gared

Krisken said:
Holy fucking shit. I thought Grothman was the worst of the lot, but it seems Prideman is also looking to get in on the woman hating action.

I'm suddenly so very, very happy that I moved back to Washington from Wisconsin in '05. Sure, Washington is fucked up financially, and we've got more than our fair share of retarded politicians - but when they do something retarded it's usually along the lines of deciding that their major city doesn't really need that major arterial highway and replacing it with a two lane road with a bike lane and a green-space down the middle; or replacing an ass-load of parking space with bike lanes; it's not declaring that single mothers cause child abuse and that women who are beaten by their husbands need to remember why they love said husbands instead of leaving them. That's just beyond fucked up.

Glad to see that recall elections are being ordered for Walker, but I'd love to know if Grothman and Prideman divulged any of this psychopathy before they were elected and were voted in anyway, or if they acted like normal, civil human beings in order to be elected and then spout their hatred of all women.

Mar 29, 2012#430

jwhouk

Gared said:
Glad to see that recall elections are being ordered for Walker, but I'd love to know if Grothman and Prideman divulged any of this psychopathy before they were elected and were voted in anyway, or if they acted like normal, civil human beings in order to be elected and then spout their hatred of all women.

Given who this state elected as governor, I'd say the latter was true.

Mar 29, 2012#431

Krisken

Gared said:
Glad to see that recall elections are being ordered for Walker, but I'd love to know if Grothman and Prideman divulged any of this psychopathy before they were elected and were voted in anyway, or if they acted like normal, civil human beings in order to be elected and then spout their hatred of all women.

Knowing Washington County (which Grothman represents), he ran unopposed. An (R) in front of the name pretty is pretty much a guarantee win here.

Mar 29, 2012#432

Gared

Well, that's kind of sad, but you see that pretty much all over. Around here all you have to do is have a (D) in front of your name and you're golden.

Mar 30, 2012#433

jwhouk

Wisconsin's Government Accountability Board is FINALLY going to certify that there should be a recall of Walker/Kleefisch today, March 30th.

There were 900,938 valid signatures, which was over 96% of the total submitted - and over 360 thousand more than what was needed.

The Primaries on the Democratic side are scheduled for May 8, when several senators are being recalled, and a general election will be set for June 5th.

I suddenly want to get a t-shirt that says, "I AM THE 96%!"

Mar 30, 2012#434

jwhouk

Tom Barrett announces his candidacy for Governor - right after the GAB certifies the recall. :sohappy:

In other news - a Federal judge has struck down part, but not all, of Act 10.

Apr 2, 2012#435

Gared

Vas ist Act 10?

Apr 2, 2012#436

jwhouk

Is ironic you should use Deutsche to ask...

Act 10 is the (insert extremely derogatory term here) piece of legislation that essentially took away ALL rights to bargain collectively from ANY group of employees that work for the state, counties or municipalities within the state of Wisconsin.

It was a "carbon copy" piece of legislation, created by a GOP "think tank" that required an incredibly high target and incredibly ridiculous time frame for groups to be certified as a "bargaining unit" between state/local governments and their employees. <These two parts of the legislation were struck down by the court.>

It also essentially took about 90% of what could be discussed in bargaining off the table completely - essentially turning "bargaining" into "what shade of blue should our uniforms be?"

It was passed in the middle of the night, while the 14 state senators were off in Illinois to prevent a vote on the bill. It was essentially "ram-rod" legislation - you'll take it or else.

It is the reason why SW is facing a recall, as it affected every single person employed by the state of Wisconsin, its counties and municipalities - including the teachers in the various school districts throughout the state.

Apr 2, 2012#437

Gared

Ah yes, that one. I knew that the legislation existed, I remember when everyone was out protesting it around Wisconsin and especially at the state capitol; I just didn't know the legislative number they used for it. And mainly I was just being silly with the language.

Apr 4, 2012#438

Krisken

Oh Kathy Nickolaus, what would we do without you? Probably have elections that didn't constantly become clusterfucks I imagine.

Apr 4, 2012#439

jwhouk

Boy, am I SO glad I don't live in Waukesha County anymore. At least my vote has a chance of being COUNTED right.

Apr 4, 2012#440

jwhouk

Heads up for us "progressives" DO NOT vote for the following idiots in the Democratic Gubernatorial Recall Primary:

Gladys Huber (governor)
Isaac Weix (lieutenant governor)

Apr 5, 2012#441

Krisken

Oh, are those Republicans pretending to be Dems? I'm probably going to vote Barrett again, tbh. I liked him the first time and I find Falk to be kinda meh.

Apr 5, 2012#442

jwhouk

The only reason why I'd vote for Barrett is if he was Democratic nominee coming out of the primary. Falk has said she would rescind the bargaining restrictions for public employees (which the courts have already essentially struck down). Barrett's suggested the same, but I don't know if he'd be willing to go as far.

Somewhere, I hope WSEU still has a copy of the tentative agreement we had with the state back in December of 2010 - BEFORE the whole mess came down.

Apr 6, 2012#443

jwhouk

I would hope that all of the Democratic candidates would come together at any "debates" or whatever and simply say, "You know what? What's really important is that we get Governor Walker OUT of office. That's it."

Apr 6, 2012#444

Necronic

Pridemore has some other great stuff behind his name, like being pro-puppy-mill

http://chippewa.com/news/local/state-and-regional/article_63f436b6-b933-11e0-9e28-001cc4c002e0.html

Apr 6, 2012#445

Krisken

I think they'll try to win, but they won't hamstring their opponents. The only ones I expect that from are the fake Dems, and they aren't even participating in the process, they're just pawns.

Oh, and it might be illegal for them to be doing this anyways.

Apr 6, 2012#446

Krisken

Oh yeah, and that equal pay thing? Walker is right on top of removing those protections for women in the workplace.

What a dick.

Apr 6, 2012#447

jwhouk

You forgot the discrimination damages thing.

Apr 6, 2012#448

Krisken

OFFS.

Apr 6, 2012#449

jwhouk

That does it. Krisken, there is only one thing you CAN do.

Run as a "fake" Republican in the gubernatorial primary.

Apr 10, 2012#450

jwhouk

There is now another twist in all of this:

Now that Romney's essentially wrapped up the GOP nomination... could Walker become his VEEP?

One UW-Milwaukee professor thinks so.

If that happened, I'd almost want to vote Republican to get his slimy butt out of the state....

Apr 10, 2012#451

Krisken

That would be a tough sell considering the John Doe investigations.

Apr 10, 2012#452

jwhouk

Someone took us up on our offer, Krisken...

KOHL-RIGGS '12!

Apr 11, 2012#453

jwhouk

Don't like the Democratic field for the Wisconsin Gubernatorial Recall election?

VOTE KOHL-RIGGS! His Republican candidacy is less of a joke than Scotty W's!

Apr 11, 2012#454

Krisken

Lol, not my offer! I find it sad people who lean left are also adding to the nonsense the Republicans are performing in making a mockery of the process. Anyone who falsifies information and runs in the race should be prosecuted.

Apr 11, 2012#455

jwhouk

And I know a lot of lawyers who would defend Mr. Kohl-Riggs to the death.

Besides - in this fight, they shot first.

Apr 11, 2012#456

Krisken

As a progressive, I hate the "Well they did it too" argument. It always makes fixing the problem later on much, much harder. Campaign finance is a perfect example of this.

Apr 11, 2012#457

jwhouk

He needs a few thousand more signatures before Friday, apparently, or he won't be on the ballot (and Walker won't have to run in a primary).

Apr 16, 2012#458

jwhouk

Okay, for someone who grew up and remembers Watergate, this is SCARY:

John Dean: Walker is "more Nixonian than Nixon"

"Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I am not anti-union..."

Apr 17, 2012#459

jwhouk

I had a thought strike me as I read about the "fake Democrats" and the "fake Republicans" in the lovely recall elections here in Wisconsin:

Wouldn't it be just crazy if, in one of the legislative recall elections, if a "fake Democrat" and a "fake Republican" won their respective primaries?

Apr 17, 2012#460

Krisken

I believe that would be crazy.

Apr 17, 2012#461

jwhouk

And we'd deserve it, methinks.

Apr 17, 2012#462

Krisken

What's really sad is the very real possibility the guy will win and still be our governor even after all of this. I can't decide if it's a failure on our parts or those who support his horrible policies and questionable tactics.

Apr 17, 2012#463

jwhouk

I'm actually tempted to vote for Kohl-Briggs as a bit of a protest vote...

Apr 21, 2012#464

Krisken

Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin is now suspending medicated abortions because the new law in Wisconsin requires the patient to meet with the same doctor 3 times before it can be administered.

May 4, 2012#465

Krisken

I was watching The Daily Show on Hulu and a pro Scott Walker ad came on with him talking about how he put a billion dollars towards healthcare (what they don't say is this is because they had to cover all the money they lost by being total dickbags to Planned Parenthood and other programs and lost their Federal funding in by not meeting requirements), and it struck me that when he talks he sounds like Kevin from The Office.

I couldn't stop laughing, and now I know whenever I see him talk I'm going to burst out into laughter. I have to wonder if we are turning into a more conservative state because we elected someone with Walker's credentials or a more progressive state because we elected someone who sounds like he rode the short bus.

May 4, 2012#466

jwhouk

What I want Barrett to do, should he manage to win the primary, is take EVERY STINKING SINGLE "MILWAUKEE SUCKS AND BARRETT IS WHY" ad that Walker, Koch and company throw out there and put the words "MILWAUKEE COUNTY EXECUTIVE SCOTT WALKER" in Barrett's place.

And yes, I could see Steve Carrell play the lead in "WALKER - THE MUSICAL". Tina Fey could play Becky Kleefisch (and it wouldn't be much of a stretch).

May 8, 2012#467

jwhouk

AP is projecting Barrett as the winner of the Democratic primary. Falk apparently didn't do very well in her home county of Dane.

Interesting bit: Mr. Kohl-Briggs got more votes in the Republican primary than Gladys Huber (the "fake" Democrat) did in Democratic primary.

May 9, 2012#468

jwhouk

So. After a year and a half of hand-wringing, protesting, canvassing, signature collecting and balloting, what do we get?

A repeat of the 2010 Gubernatorial Election.

Tom Barrett, the mayor of Milwaukee, won the Democratic Primary in the Recall election for Wisconsin state Governor.

Some observations:

As noted above, Arthur Kohl-Riggs (the "fake Republican" and noted video web journalist) received 19,920 votes - which was more than four times what Gladys Huber (the "fake Democrat" put up to run against Barrett, Falk, Vinehout and LaFollette) received. Huber got 4,842 votes - about 1% of the total votes in the Democratic primary.
Somewhat disconcerting is how well the "fake Democrat" did in the Lieutenant Governor primary. Isaac Weix received 26% of the vote (197,052), which did not derail Mahlon Mitchell's victory (he got 52% of the vote for the Lt.Gov office), but did beat out the only other "real" Democrat in the race, Ira Robins (22% of the vote, 165,074).
Not including Mr. Kohl-Riggs or Gladys Huber's votes, the margin of total votes for Governor on the Democratic side (665,436) were greater than on the GOP side (626,538). What the Wisconsin Dems are going to have to try to do is not lose their base between now and the Recall election day.

May 9, 2012#469

Krisken

Just thought I'd leave this great Forbes article here.

May 9, 2012#470

jwhouk

Likes I sed - Anything bad you say about Barrett & job losses goes double for Walker.

May 11, 2012#471

AshburnerX

Video surfaces of Scott Walker explaining his plan to destroy unions, explaining plan to billionaire.

So yeah... not surprised.

May 11, 2012#472

jwhouk

"Divide And Conquer". Oh boy, if this had come out LAST year...

May 11, 2012#473

Krisken

Right? Sadly people just don't care enough anymore.

May 12, 2012#474

Bowielee

So, I recently drove the length of the state... Literally, I went from the Minnesota border to the Illinois border, and I have to say, the signs I saw were probably 50/50 support and recall, so I don't know how this will all turn out.

May 12, 2012#475

jwhouk

He's got the "divide" part down right.

Bowielee, if he wins the election, I might be joining you on I-94 out of the state.

May 23, 2012#476

jwhouk

The Democratic Party of Marathon County, Wisconsin, has some issues.

Currently, the Dems "campaign office" is on the site of what used to be an old thrift shop and resale store in downtown Wausau. That's not a bad thing - both parties use short-term leases in empty office/storefronts as campaign HQ's.

It's just that the place is right next door to an alternative record shop. Now, that's not as bad as it sounds - I think pretty much every downtown area has at least one of these, especially if the area has a somewhat Bohemian bent to it, which Wausau does. However, right next to that is a bookstore.

An adult bookstore. "Lovers Playground".

At least their "permanent" location is over at the Labor Temple on the other side of the river - which is pretty much where you'd expect them to have an office.

May 24, 2012#477

jwhouk

The question we all have to ask:

Why do people outside of the state of Wisconsin want to spend the equivalent of $23 per vote to keep Scott Walker in the governor's office?

May 28, 2012#478

jwhouk

Seen on the way to a Memorial Day picnic this year:

"WE NEED A NEW GOVERNOR"
"YOU STAND FOR JOHN DOE?"
"FIRE THE LIAR - RECALL WALKER"

I'd love to see the Lt. Governor version of that last one:
"DITCH THE *ITCH - RECALL KLEEFISCH"

May 28, 2012#479

Krisken

jwhouk said:
Seen on the way to a Memorial Day picnic this year:

"WE NEED A NEW GOVERNOR"
"YOU STAND FOR JOHN DOE?"
"FIRE THE LIAR - RECALL WALKER"

I'd love to see the Lt. Governor version of that last one:
"DITCH THE *ITCH - RECALL KLEEFISCH"

You know, I haven't seen a single Kleefisch sign. Not a one.

May 28, 2012#480

jwhouk

Meanwhile I've seen a TON of Mitchell signs.

Boy, that would be INCREDIBLY embarassing, if Walker held on to the Gov's office, but Sarah Pali... er, I mean, Rebecca Kleefisch, was voted out in favor of Mahlon.

And Krisken: I haven't been through my old neck of the woods (Waukesha County) lately, so I dunno if anyone put up any Kleefisch signs on I-94 between Oconomowoc and Brookfield Square...

May 28, 2012#481

Krisken

jwhouk said:
Meanwhile I've seen a TON of Mitchell signs.

Boy, that would be INCREDIBLY embarassing, if Walker held on to the Gov's office, but Sarah Pali... er, I mean, Rebecca Kleefisch, was voted out in favor of Mahlon.

And Krisken: I haven't been through my old neck of the woods (Waukesha County) lately, so I dunno if anyone put up any Kleefisch signs on I-94 between Oconomowoc and Brookfield Square...

Actually, that's what I think will happen, though it appears that Barrett is gaining a little steam (he'll never be able to catch up to the money though). If nothing else, Wisconsin's dislike for Kleefisch just might swing the election to Barrett.

I haven't been that way lately either. I'm sure there's a couple, but it's hard to imagine a lot of them.

May 28, 2012#482

jwhouk

I remember back in '10 that she had a few down there, one by Buck Rub Archery and another closer to Oconomowoc.

I have been heartened in the increase in Barrett/Mitchell signage over the last week or so. If anything, it's a better thing than those ugly "We Stand With Walker" signs in that Tahoma-ripoff font.

Which reminds me - does anyone have an idea what exactly that ugly-ass font IS that Walker Inc. is using?

Jun 2, 2012#483

Krisken

Remember all the times Walker claimed he was cooperating with the John Doe investigation? Apparently they don't feel the same.

Jun 3, 2012#484

jwhouk

The race, it has closed to within a tenth of a percentage point.

Buckle up, Wisconsin. It's gonna be a bumpy night.

Current odds:

There will be at least two or three reports of voters being either turned away because of lack of ID - or other voter fraud: 3 to 1.
Kathy Nicklaus will screw up the vote totals from Waukesha County somehow: NO LINE
A recount will be requested for the recall: 3 to 2.
There will be a lawsuit or five filed against the results: 10 to 1.
Scott Walker will not accept the results of a recall loss: 7.5 to 1.
Barrett wins the gubernatorial recall but Kleefisch wins the Lt. Gov. recall: 5 to 2.
Walker holds on to his job but Mahlon Mitchell wins the Lt. Gov recall: 4 to 1.
Walker is indicted on the John Doe investigation the day after the recall (if he loses): 3 to 1.
Walker is indicted on the John Doe investigation the day after the recall (if he wins): 100 to 1.

Jun 3, 2012#485

Krisken

jwhouk said:
The race, it has closed to within a tenth of a percentage point.

Buckle up, Wisconsin. It's gonna be a bumpy night.

Current odds:

There will be at least two or three reports of voters being either turned away because of lack of ID - or other voter fraud: 3 to 1.

Kathy Nicklaus will screw up the vote totals from Waukesha County somehow: NO LINE

A recount will be requested for the recall: 3 to 2.

There will be a lawsuit or five filed against the results: 10 to 1.

Scott Walker will not accept the results of a recall loss: 7.5 to 1.

Barrett wins the gubernatorial recall but Kleefisch wins the Lt. Gov. recall: 5 to 2.

Walker holds on to his job but Mahlon Mitchell wins the Lt. Gov recall: 4 to 1.

Walker is indicted on the John Doe investigation the day after the recall (if he loses): 3 to 1.

Walker is indicted on the John Doe investigation the day after the recall (if he loses): 100 to 1.

The indictment would be higher as it has been indicated that if he was to be indicted in the John Doe case they would wait till 2 months after the election to avoid any implication of partisan motives.

Totally love the odds chart though

Jun 4, 2012#486

Bowielee

Well, don't forget to go out and vote tomorrow, I know I'll be there.

Jun 4, 2012#487

jwhouk

I already voted. I'm wary as to whether or not I'm going to be ordered on Tuesday morning.

Jun 4, 2012#488

Krisken

Bowielee said:
Well, don't forget to go out and vote tomorrow, I know I'll be there.

Forget? Shit, I'm so excited I can hardly wait.

Jun 4, 2012#489

Gared

Can I get a link to a local news website for Wisconsin that's going to be running live election count results? I'd like to find out how screwed you guys (and my parents) are before Wednesday morning.

Jun 4, 2012#490

Krisken

Mayer Barrett's campaign has confirmed people are receiving phone calls telling them they don't have to vote Tuesday if they signed the recall petition, that it would count as a vote. I'm continuously disgusted by people.

Edit: Now confirmed by me personally. My wife got this call earlier today.

Jun 4, 2012#491

jwhouk

That probably explained the Michigan call on my caller ID earlier.

Jun 5, 2012#492

Bowielee

Krisken said:
Mayer Barrett's campaign has confirmed people are receiving phone calls telling them they don't have to vote Tuesday if they signed the recall petition, that it would count as a vote. I'm continuously disgusted by people.

Edit: Now confirmed by me personally. My wife got this call earlier today.

Holy crap, that is some low stuff.

BTW, voted first thing this morning.

Jun 5, 2012#493

Gared

Krisken said:
Mayer Barrett's campaign has confirmed people are receiving phone calls telling them they don't have to vote Tuesday if they signed the recall petition, that it would count as a vote. I'm continuously disgusted by people.

Edit: Now confirmed by me personally. My wife got this call earlier today.

Wow... that is just straight fucked up.

Jun 5, 2012#494

Krisken

Maybe they can use this kind of thing as evidence the outside interest groups are corrupting the process with unlimited spending. With what happened above and with those stupid mailers from the Democratic Party's side which tried to get people to guilt their neighbors into voting, both were 'interest groups'.

No matter what happens today, Barrett ran the best campaign he could considering he was outspent 15 to 1. Either way, Wisconsin gets what it deserves I think.

Jun 5, 2012#495

Bowielee

This is the banner ad I'm treated to on the main page.

Really, you're going to go with an education theme? The man who effectively gutted collective bargaining rights for teachers?

Jun 5, 2012#496

Krisken

Saw yet another pro-Barrett sign destroyed today. It was a large wood sign and it was split in half with one piece laying against a nearby post.

Jun 5, 2012#497

Gared

Bowielee said:
This is the banner ad I'm treated to on the main page.

View attachment 6664

Really, you're going to go with an education theme? The man who effectively gutted collective bargaining rights for teachers?

"Well, yeah, but now that they got rid of that damn union, at least we won't have to worry about these damn socialist $90k a year teachers shutting down our schools every fall with their stupid strikes, asking for even more money and even less work to do."

/The only pro-Walker argument I've seen regarding the unions, which I've seen approximately 90 times in the last few weeks.

Jun 5, 2012#498

Krisken

Gared said:
"Well, yeah, but now that they got rid of that damn union, at least we won't have to worry about these damn socialist $90k a year teachers shutting down our schools every fall with their stupid strikes, asking for even more money and even less work to do."

/The only pro-Walker argument I've seen regarding the unions, which I've seen approximately 90 times in the last few weeks.

Every person who says that should be required to take their kids out of school and teach them themselves for a month.

Jun 5, 2012#499

Gared

I agree wholeheartedly. Though, to be honest, I highly doubt that half the morons making that claim even have children in the first place.

Jun 5, 2012#500

jwhouk

I was actually seeking an ad-blocker for my iPod Touch because I kept seeing that banner every time I loaded up the forums on Tapatalk. :puke:

(looks at clock) So. It's 8:07. Any of the three major networks called this for Walker yet?

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