WTF Wisconsin? (Formerly Walker convo thread)

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Krisken

Krisken

Governor Walker had a candid conversation with someone from The Beast who posed as David Koch of Koch Industries. Extremely candid.

Some frightening bits?

conversation said:
Koch: Now who can we get to budge on this collective bargaining?
Walker: …I think the paycheck will have an impact…secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next…we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state. We think there’s at minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.
Koch: Well, they’re probably putting hobos in suits
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Conversation said:
Walker: …I’ve got layoff notices ready…
Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. Gotta crush that union.
Walker: …I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly…legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum…so we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capital with all 14 of them…
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conversation said:
Koch: We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.
Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this…[explains that planting troublemakers may not work.] My only fear would be if there’s a ruckus caused is that maybe the governor has to settle to solve all these problems…Let ‘em protest all they want…Sooner or later the media stops finding it interesting.
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conversation said:
Koch: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: once you crush these bastards I’ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time.
Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. Thanks for all the support…it’s all about getting our freedoms back…
Koch: Absolutely. And, you know, we have a little bit of a vested interest as well. [Laughs]
Walker: Thanks a million!
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Pretty scary stuff.
 
C

Chibibar

I am not surprise. This is politics after all. I am sure the governor is looking at all options to get this bill passed legally even with some trickery (hey the Federal did it on Health Care bill ;) )
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
In the conversations posted, I don't see anything wrong. He was obviously humoring him on the last one and in the others he outright said he wouldn't do anything immoral. Did he say they discussed it? Yup. But I'll bet it wasn't his idea. Sounds to me like an aide suggested it and he shot it down because of the potential problems.

Am I missing something?
 
Espy

Espy

Dave said:
In the conversations posted, I don't see anything wrong. He was obviously humoring him on the last one and in the others he outright said he wouldn't do anything immoral. Did he say they discussed it? Yup. But I'll bet it wasn't his idea. Sounds to me like an aide suggested it and he shot it down because of the potential problems.

Am I missing something?
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Yeah as far as "corrupt" and "evil" politicians go this isn't exactly a few hundred thousand hiding in your freezer.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

He's being a little underhanded with his public points about destroying employee rights, and what he tells his financial backers. Which pretty much plays into what the unions have been screaming, it is about a power play and not the budget.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Well the "Koch" fake is really going over the top trying to come across as Evil Empire, and the Gov isn't really biting, but is trying to act polite to a powerful constituent. Nothing to see here other than poor journalistic integrity. Got to love that: "omg cops used entrapment!" then...."Well its ok if we use entrapment. that's different."
 
DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Necronic said:
Well the "Koch" fake is really going over the top trying to come across as Evil Empire, and the Gov isn't really biting, but is trying to act polite to a powerful constituent. Nothing to see here other than poor journalistic integrity. Got to love that: "omg cops used entrapment!" then...."Well its ok if we use entrapment. that's different."
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Yes it's perfectly fine. The rules are different between a court of law and the "court of public opinion". Illegally obtained evidence can be thrown out of court, but what has been said cannot be unsaid.

So you can't convict a guy for being a total douche, but you can certainly shout it to the high heavens.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
If you listen to the actual conversation, the mayor really sounds like he's trying to frame his answers so that he doesn't offend the ally but lets him know that he's not going to do anything illegal.

I think the mayor comes out better in this one.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
DarkAudit said:
Yes it's perfectly fine. The rules are different between a court of law and the "court of public opinion". Illegally obtained evidence can be thrown out of court, but what has been said cannot be unsaid.

So you can't convict a guy for being a total douche, but you can certainly shout it to the high heavens.
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Of course its legal. Its simply incredibly unethical. A journalist can't make the story. Period.
 
Krisken

Krisken

Keep in mind that Wisconsin has very strict Code of Ethics rules.

Wisconsin Code of Ethics said:
19.45 Standards of conduct; state public officials. (1) The legislature hereby
reaffirms that a state public official holds his or her position as a public trust, and
any effort to realize substantial personal gain through official conduct is a violation
of that trust. This subchapter does not prevent any state public official from
accepting other employment or following any pursuit which in no way interferes
with the full and faithful discharge of his or her duties to this state. The
legislature further recognizes that in a representative democracy, the
representatives are drawn from society and, therefore, cannot and should not be
without all personal and economic interest in the decisions and policies of
government; that citizens who serve as state public officials retain their rights as
citizens to interests of a personal or economic nature; that standards of ethical
conduct for state public officials need to distinguish between those minor and
inconsequential conflicts that are unavoidable in a free society, and those
conflicts which are substantial and material; and that state public officials may
need to engage in employment, professional or business activities, other than
official duties, in order to support themselves or their families and to maintain a
continuity of professional or business activity, or may need to maintain investments,
which activities or investments do not conflict with the specific provisions
of this subchapter.
(2) No state public official may use his or her public position or office to obtain
financial gain or anything of substantial value for the private benefit of himself or
herself or his or her immediate family, or for an organization with which he or she
is associated. This subsection does not prohibit a state public official from using
the title or prestige of his or her office to obtain contributions permitted and
reported as required by ch. 11.
(3) No person may offer or give to a state public official, directly or indirectly,
and no state public official may solicit or accept from any person, directly or indirectly, anything of value if it could reasonably be expected to influence the state
public official’s vote, official actions or judgment, or could reasonably be considered
as a reward for any official action or inaction on the part of the state public
official. This subsection does not prohibit a state public official from engaging
in outside employment.
Click to expand...
Full Ethics document at wi.gov
We don't put up with this bullshit here in Wisconsin. Might be due to being an hour away from Chicago. ;)
 
Covar

Covar

Necronic said:
Well the "Koch" fake is really going over the top trying to come across as Evil Empire, and the Gov isn't really biting, but is trying to act polite to a powerful constituent. Nothing to see here other than poor journalistic integrity. Got to love that: "omg cops used entrapment!" then...."Well its ok if we use entrapment. that's different."
Click to expand...
I keep thinking of Joe the Plumber here personally. Based on what we were told about that everything Governor Walker has said to the fake should be immediately discarded and ignored.
 
DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Krisken said:
Keep in mind that Wisconsin has very strict Code of Ethics rules.



Full Ethics document at wi.gov
We don't put up with this bullshit here in Wisconsin. Might be due to being an hour away from Chicago. ;)
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I've said it before. I really wish Mike Royko was still alive. I bet his ghost is just screaming for a typewriter right now. :D
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
DarkAudit said:
The ghost of Richard Nixon smiled when you said that.
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The watergate scandal was uncovered by the journalists. The journalists did not go to Nixxon and say "Hey, you know what would be a good idea?

I'm seriously confused how yall can see entrapment as an acceptal journalistic tool.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Yeah, I'm with Necro. It's kind of funny, but this doesn't really mean a thing with the way those questions are phrased. I'm reminded of Colbert getting a guy to openly declare support for hookers and blow.
 
Krisken

Krisken

I'm trying to see where I said the guys methods were ok. If I gave that impression, it was not what I intended. It's on par with that idiot who dressed as a pimp to set up Acorn, tbh.
 
C

Chibibar

Krisken said:
I'm trying to see where I said the guys methods were ok. If I gave that impression, it was not what I intended. It's on par with that idiot who dressed as a pimp to set up Acorn, tbh.
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that is exactly what I was thinking.

Of course it is any better than undercover agent trying to incite terrorism and arrest people for it either.
 
jwhouk

jwhouk

Krisken: you forgot to add the disclaimer for those of us who aren't cheeseheads.

THIS ISN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN WISCONSIN.

For God knows HOW many years, stuff like this happened below the border in Illinois - corrupt politician after corrupt politician. And we sat up here all smug, saying, "That sort of stuff doesn't happen in America's Dairyland!"

And now, I'm planning on signing a recall of Koch's buddy in November. (State law: an elected official cannot be the subject of a recall until the end of their first year in office.)

(EDIT: Oh. I see you did post the ethics statute. Thanks.)

Added at: 00:26
Dave said:
If you listen to the actual conversation, the GOVERNOR really sounds like he's trying to frame his answers so that he doesn't offend the ally but lets him know that he's not going to do anything illegal.

I think the GOVERNOR comes out better in this one.
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FTFY - and hopefully that colors your viewpoint, Dave. This guy isn't the mayor of some podunk city in the Midwest - HE'S THE FREAKIN' GOVERNOR OF A STATE.
 
Krisken

Krisken

New development-
Walker just kicked Sheriff + Police Chief off Capitol command team + put Fitzgerald from State Patrol in charge.

Name sound familiar? It might, since the name Fitzgerald is the last name of the Senate Majority Leader of Wisconsin.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I take it this is because the police wouldn't break up the protest? I wonder what's going to happen when/if the new guy in charge tries to do it, only to find that the police who joined the protest are blocking them... will the blue wall shatter or will they stop their advance?

Regardless, Walker has all but guaranteed that he's going to be a single term Gov, and that's only assuming he's not removed in a recall election.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Krisken said:
New development-
Walker just kicked Sheriff + Police Chief off Capitol command team + put Fitzgerald from State Patrol in charge.

Name sound familiar? It might, since the name Fitzgerald is the last name of the Senate Majority Leader of Wisconsin.
Click to expand...
While I could google the name, Krisken, I'm lazy at night. Can you provide a brief summary of the particulars?
 
Krisken

Krisken

I'm working on it. The major news organizations have been excruciatingly slow reporting this stuff. I'll keep trying to find out how they are related (so far fringe sources are saying there is a familial relation.. but we know how reliable that can be).
Added at: 20:27
Fringe sources (yeah, I know) are saying that Stephen Fitzgerald has been put in charge of the Capitol command team. He is the father of Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald. Governor Scott Walker recently put Stephen Fitzgerald in charge of the State Patrol.

The best source so far.. hoping for better as the news cycle refreshes.
 
Krisken

Krisken

Somebody should start the damn lawsuits.

Madison.com said:
Capitol Police kept more than 1,000 protestors at bay Monday, locking down the statehouse and allowing only a few dozen inside to meet with lawmakers.
Officials with the Department of Administration said they closed the Capitol to help with the cleaning of the building and could not open the doors to the public because some protestors inside the rotunda refused to limit their activities to the ground floor.
The decision seemed to run counter to Capitol tradition and the spirit of the state Constitution, which says officials cannot prohibit individuals from entering the Capitol or its grounds. Those gathered outside were not happy.
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jwhouk

jwhouk

"They" meaning the state? Because I hate to say this, but the WSEU essentially has nothing to lose by suing the state right now.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

jwhouk said:
"They" meaning the state? Because I hate to say this, but the WSEU essentially has nothing to lose by suing the state right now.
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That's true. I mean... how can the Governor claim that the law is on their side in this? Even if he passes his union busting measure, it doesn't retroactively change the fact that he's ignoring his other legal duty to negotiate the contract. You can't pass a law after you do something illegal to make what you did legal. The original act would still be against the law.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

What is going to happen when the Gov breaks collective bargaining? 1,000 levels of pay according to which primary you voted in last summer? One job, one pay + experience pay. It also would be a good way to make sure you can still pay men more than women for the same job.
 
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