WTH Blizzard, stop jerking our chain...

[@Li3n]

OK, so can we all agree that WoW has raped WC lore?!

But SC was never intended to be a GW game, sorry... WC1 might have been, but there's nothing definitive about that either...

Oh, and the 'nid book where they look more like the Zerg came out in 2001... though some minis could have come out earlier (if you have any sources either way i'd appreciate it).

They're both stealing from Tolkien, Heinlein, Moorcock and Alien though...

Bzzzzt! Sorry, but I've been playing since it came out. *, I played Diablo on the Playstation.

Then you should probably prove it next time by not talking BS... k, 10x.

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess since I'm still playing the game and the game has been played in this fashion for the last 5 years, I base my observations on that. Since over half the time the game has been out has been played in this fashion, I don't think it's unreasonable to compare it in this way.

More fun to be snide, though, isn't it?

Of course it is... you didn't know that already?!

But you might as well complain that the balance at relese isn't as good as in the previous one after 8 years of balancing... give them a break! They don't have to put in everything that was in the previous ones, especially those things that made the game so item and build dependant that it became as enjoyable as a MMO...

What I wanted:

- a nice cool gothic game
-- what we got: a WoW bastard child with blue and green hues everywhere and semi-cartoon textures

- the same level of awesome music for Diablo 3.
-- what we got: music that feels more WoW than Diablo. Several upbeat songs, too orchestral, not enough dark and moody or gothic

- deeper combat - after all, Diablo II was a fleshed out Diablo 1 and I wanted a fleshed out DIablo II
-- what we got: a simplified Diablo II, with bits of Wow tagged on.

Seriously, this is Diablo II getting raped by the big brother WoW and this unloved bastard child is Diablo III. Diablo II's music still gives me chills - THAT is how amazing it is - but I listened to Diablo III's music a lot and it does nothing to me.

OMG, it has colour... you know what else has colour, WoW... so they're the same... oh cry me a river.

Remember how SC2 looked at the start?! Or SC1:

As for cartoon textures... sure, Diablo 2 was so realistic it looked nothing like animation... :eyeroll:

but hey, enjoy your desaturated gray on gray game:

I swear, it's like you all played with the gamma on low...

 

[crono1224]

And yet which has the more popular, more recognizable characters, lore, and games? You call it a knock off, I call it a distillation.

That's because the mainstream Blizzard fan is an idiot. Transformers 2 got 400 million dollars opening night. Quality does not equal quantity.

I thinking apples and oranges, are you saying blizzard games are bad? They get rated fairly good and many people enjoy them and think they are good.

Or are you implying that transformers 2 is a bad rip off of previous transformers?

And I maybe a tard but haven't orcs and humans been done before warhammer?

 

[@Li3n]

And I maybe a tard but haven't orcs and humans been done before warhammer?

Green orcs = warhammer... Not to mentionthe whole Demons from another dimension where magic also comes from... and then going to a space setting heavily inspired by Starship Troopers... (protoss = skinnies with eldar powers)

 

[crono1224]

And I maybe a tard but haven't orcs and humans been done before warhammer?

Green orcs = warhammer... Not to mentionthe whole Demons from another dimension where magic also comes from... and then going to a space setting heavily inspired by Starship Troopers... (protoss = skinnies with eldar powers)

Color matters? bah


Also ya warcraft lore is going to have big troubles with WoW i just think they never gave it enough thought like they didn't expect it to be so popular that they would actually have to make expansions and tie shit together rather than be like, well this section in history is cool how can we involve that.

 

[@Li3n]

Color matters? bah

It does when you where obviously familiar with the source material and no one else was using the same colour orcs (and their personality matches well enough).

It's like making your vampires be destroyed by sunlight just after you went to see Nosferatu at the cinema... it's hard to call it a coincidence...

 

[crono1224]

Color matters? bah

It does when you where obviously familiar with the source material and no one else was using the same colour orcs (and their personality matches well enough).

It's like making your vampires be destroyed by sunlight just after you went to see Nosferatu at the cinema... it's hard to call it a coincidence...

Ehh, there is only so many colors something can be without being really off the wall though they could be more neutral, weaknesses probably vary much more though.

 

[@Li3n]

Like let's say brown (D&D), like most orcs at the time?! And how Blizzard made the uncorrupted ones?! Blizzard was always a slave to pop culture... and never very original with their settings... it was always polish that they where actually good at...

Going by my previous example, it's pretty obvious of a connection between daylight and our fears being dispelled... Nosferatu was still the inspiration for vampires being destroyed by sunlight...

 

[Chazwozel]

And yet which has the more popular, more recognizable characters, lore, and games? You call it a knock off, I call it a distillation.

That's because the mainstream Blizzard fan is an idiot. Transformers 2 got 400 million dollars opening night. Quality does not equal quantity.

I thinking apples and oranges, are you saying blizzard games are bad? They get rated fairly good and many people enjoy them and think they are good.

Or are you implying that transformers 2 is a bad rip off of previous transformers?

And I maybe a tard but haven't orcs and humans been done before warhammer?

I'm not saying Blizzard games are bad, but the devs of those games are extremely lazy. The reason Blizzard lore is more popular is because Games Workshop was more about books and minis rather than video games. You're going to tap a vastly bigger demographic with video games like Blizzard did. This is where you get Blizzard fanbois who think Blizzard is king of the crop in terms of fantasy.

 

[@Li3n]

Ok, so upon reading the thread again, i'd like to apologise to Krisken... i totally misread what you said, instead all that should have been directed at Icarus, who thinks that arbitrary immunity to a character build is a good thing...

 

[Chibibar]

And yet which has the more popular, more recognizable characters, lore, and games? You call it a knock off, I call it a distillation.

That's because the mainstream Blizzard fan is an idiot. Transformers 2 got 400 million dollars opening night. Quality does not equal quantity.

while that is true... it is all about marketing

And make it easier to player gain access to X games.

Warhammer is complicated (while it DOES have a richer story) it was harder for players to get into it. Warhammer came out late in terms of video game. Workshop probably STILL kicking themselves in the butt for letting Bliz go (I'm assuming since they were once partners) While Warhammer was first, WoW is easier and more "fun" to play to the public.

You may consider them idiots, but there are more of them and thus more profit to be had than our collective "elitist" gaming view. I do love WoW, Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo. I do miss the hard playing style and old school, but the new generation (and there are more of them) of gamers what instant immersion and ease of play. There are some games that have "complicate" element in it, but you know what? Developers will ALWAYS go where the money is.

I mean look at all the "petz" games and puzzle games out there.

 

[@Li3n]

Screw "elitist" gamers... they're the idiots that though that MBS would ruin strategy in SC forever...

 

[JCM]

You know, if WOW players had the balls to cancel their accounts, one could pretty much lord over Blizzard. Pissed over Starcarft 2´s lack of LAN? If 1000 WOW players wrote this while cancelling their WOW accounts, you´d bet Blizzard would pay attention.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Warhammer may have a richer lore, but I don't think it has richer stories, because there's little to nothing in terms of character. There's no solid storyline to follow. The series lacks consistent hero-villain; it's mainly about its lore and themes. Yes, there's Gortrek and Felix, but nothing about Warhammer focuses on them. Same with Warhammer 40,000--all the solid plot and character happened in the 30,000 era. Dan Abnett's characters may be the most fleshed out of either franchise, but they don't matter to the 40k universe. They have no impact or bearing on it.

Warcraft is shallow, no doubt, but it has recognizable characters who do affect the story, plot, history, etc.

 

[Chazwozel]

You know, if WOW players had the balls to cancel their accounts, one could pretty much lord over Blizzard. * over Starcarft 2´s lack of LAN? If 1000 WOW players wrote this while cancelling their WOW accounts, you´d bet Blizzard would pay attention.

They have as much balls to drop their WoW accounts as heroin addicts do to put down the needles. I still get Blizzard email spam begging me to reactivate with all sorts of deals. :eyeroll:

 

[JCM]

*bows before someone who managed to cut his account*

 

[Chad Sexington]

You know, if WOW players had the balls to cancel their accounts, one could pretty much lord over Blizzard. * over Starcarft 2´s lack of LAN? If 1000 WOW players wrote this while cancelling their WOW accounts, you´d bet Blizzard would pay attention.

They have as much balls to drop their WoW accounts as heroin addicts do to put down the needles. I still get Blizzard email spam begging me to reactivate with all sorts of deals. :eyeroll:

What? Man. Nobody offers me deals for cancelling my account! Lame.

 

[Chazwozel]

You don't get constant spam from blizzard for 'recruit a friend' or 'scroll of resurrection'? Oh and then I get the patch updates so they rub in my face what I'm missing. I've unsubscribed from the newsletter I don't know how many times...

 

[Icarus]

What I wanted:

- a nice cool gothic game
-- what we got: a WoW bastard child with blue and green hues everywhere and semi-cartoon textures

- the same level of awesome music for Diablo 3.
-- what we got: music that feels more WoW than Diablo. Several upbeat songs, too orchestral, not enough dark and moody or gothic

- deeper combat - after all, Diablo II was a fleshed out Diablo 1 and I wanted a fleshed out DIablo II
-- what we got: a simplified Diablo II, with bits of Wow tagged on.

Seriously, this is Diablo II getting raped by the big brother WoW and this unloved bastard child is Diablo III. Diablo II's music still gives me chills - THAT is how amazing it is - but I listened to Diablo III's music a lot and it does nothing to me.

OMG, it has colour... you know what else has colour, WoW... so they're the same... oh cry me a river.

OMG you use a straw man argument! Seriously, read what I said. Diablo I nor II did have cartoonish graphics because it was 2D for starters but all sprites were incredibly detailed. Heck, the screenshot you pasted below shows the fine detail. There's no washed out textures - Blizzard even refuse to use proper bump mapping which is also a system they used with World of Warcraft.

http://images.mmosite.com/answer/dict/u ... 9dc121.jpg

Take a look at this screenshot for example: the tiles are a very typical WoW style where they blend with the grass + cartoonish style. They're flat, non-realistic and have no depth to them. The rocks are even worse and also very typical of the WoW art style - while most games use proper bump mapping to create a rock face, Diablo III uses a stylistic representation which "mimics" rock in a cartoon style without being realistic.

In essence, the entire style is made to keep system requirements low because Blizzard know that the average WoW user does not have a killer rig and it's clearly them they're aiming for. With Diablo II having very detailed graphics (even though they were repeated), this feels like a step back. Instead of a gorgeously sinister world, you get a cartoonish look & feel.

Remember how SC2 looked at the start?! Or SC1:
http://eter22.files.wordpress.com/2007/ ... _alpha.png

As for cartoon textures... sure, Diablo 2 was so realistic it looked nothing like animation... :eyeroll:

but hey, enjoy your desaturated gray on gray game:

Another strawman argument. If you got no points, why bother replying?

a) I never mentioned Starcraft. Starcraft worked well with colours. Starcraft was not about a dark world invaded by Satan's minions in a gothic style.
b) I never said the game had to be all grey - but the typically crap blue and green glows where not a single blue or green light source if present is very very lazy and a typical WoW art style. Diablo II wasn't all grey either but the colour scheme added enough colour to still make the darker and greyer areas stand out. It's all about balance and it's obvious the original art team left Blizzard when looking at the wrong balance in all screenshot's I've seen so far.

Anyway, try again instead of dismissing my points with nonsense.

 

[ScytheRexx]

 

[Hailey Knight]

You don't get constant spam from blizzard for 'recruit a friend' or 'scroll of resurrection'? Oh and then I get the patch updates so they rub in my face what I'm missing. I've unsubscribed from the newsletter I don't know how many times...

Those aren't really deals unless you have an active account though. Scroll of Resurrection only worked if you're active and you want to get someone else back in (and get a free month by doing so), so they should really be sending those to your friends.

 

[Chad Sexington]

You don't get constant spam from blizzard for 'recruit a friend' or 'scroll of resurrection'? Oh and then I get the patch updates so they rub in my face what I'm missing. I've unsubscribed from the newsletter I don't know how many times...

I actually haven't heard a peep from Blizzard since cancelling my WoW account... I considered restarting it about a month ago when a friend reactivated hers, but ultimately decided against it... Oh man, maybe they're trying to control me with telepathy!

 

[Frank]

Blizzard will never get dollar one from me again after the shit they did when I had lost my internet for a month.

During this period of time, my password was stolen (I blame my best friend who's password was also stolen and he knew my password and login and such) and my account was frozen. When I finally get my ISP switched over and my internet comes back online I find out all this mess had happened. I email Blizzard and ask them basically, "What the hell?" I get told my account is frozen while they investigate. During the week I couldn't log on I notice that while they were too busy to actually fix my shit so I could play, they weren't too busy to bill me for my next month's subscription.

They can go to straight to fucking hell.

 

[Shegokigo]

There are so many plot loops and holes due to the million stories going on in WoW that it boggles the mind.

Name two plot holes. Just two.

You don't get constant spam from blizzard for 'recruit a friend' or 'scroll of resurrection'? Oh and then I get the patch updates so they rub in my face what I'm missing. I've unsubscribed from the newsletter I don't know how many times...

I get spam from DAoC, CoH, UO and EQ from time to time. Guess that makes them pathetic too? As well as "Why are you leaving us?" application everyone I canceled.

 

[Raemon777]

I've never gotten any Blizzard spam. I do think they went overboard with WotLK at first (even I, a casual gamer, was disappointed with how easy some things were, and would appreciate more challenging solo content) but I generally agree with their premise of "fairly easy stuff for the masses with scalable difficulty for the hardcore people."

I think the people complaining about Diablo 3 need to find something better to complain about. The colors aren't just a matter of WoW-izing it and dumbing it down for the masses, it's a matter of reducing eyestrain and adding more variety to the world. So far I think the Dungeon screenshots have been just fine, and we've only seen one outdoor area which could maybe have been a little darker, but didn't feel fundamentally "unDiablo-like" to me.

 

[Krisken]

Ok, so upon reading the thread again, i'd like to apologise to Krisken... i totally misread what you said, instead all that should have been directed at Icarus, who thinks that arbitrary immunity to a character build is a good thing...

It's all good. I admit I was a little baffled by your response!

In my experience-
Monster immunities, the Iron Maiden curse and other almost insta-death monster effects, and win-the-lottery rarity on high end runes make for NPE's, or negative play experience. Add to that how hard it is to distinguish some of the enemies from their surroundings even in brighter environments (Act 3, anyone?), and you have a game that seems to frustrate more players than provide a meaningful challenge. Dying 8 times in Chaos Sanctuary because you use physical attacks and were in the middle of a zeal/whirlwind/frenzy is not an added challenge, it's a middle finger to the way you decided to play.

As to the complaint made earlier that Blizzard doesn't cater to hardcore gamers- I don't think they should. I think that for the most part hardcore gamers have moved to consoles, and catering to a minority of game players would be a poor move on Blizzard's part.

 

[Shegokigo]

I think that for the most part hardcore gamers have moved to consoles, and catering to a minority of game players would be a poor move on Blizzard's part.

Just for you Krisken:

 

[Krisken]

I think that for the most part hardcore gamers have moved to consoles, and catering to a minority of game players would be a poor move on Blizzard's part.

Just for you Krisken:

Don't knock it, those unicorns are going to kick ass!

 

[Raemon777]

WarCraft 3 was supposed to have unicorns in it at some point (the Archmage was supposed to ride them... later I think they were just replaced with black horses) and they actually WERE pretty badass looking.

 

[Shegokigo]

WarCraft 3 was supposed to have unicorns in it at some point (the Archmage was supposed to ride them... later I think they were just replaced with black horses) and they actually WERE pretty badass looking.

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n2VVTUXHgA:14l0pi2g][/youtube:14l0pi2g]

 

[@Li3n]

Waitr, are those the original unicorns, or the one some guys wanted to sell on t-shirts before Blizz had it's lawyers stop it?

OMG you use a straw man argument! Seriously, read what I said. Diablo I nor II did have cartoonish graphics because it was 2D for starters but all sprites were incredibly detailed. Heck, the screenshot you pasted below shows the fine detail. There's no washed out textures - Blizzard even refuse to use proper bump mapping which is also a system they used with World of Warcraft.

http://images.mmosite.com/answer/dict/u ... 9dc121.jpg

Take a look at this screenshot for example: the tiles are a very typical WoW style where they blend with the grass + cartoonish style. They're flat, non-realistic and have no depth to them. The rocks are even worse and also very typical of the WoW art style - while most games use proper bump mapping to create a rock face, Diablo III uses a stylistic representation which \"mimics\" rock in a cartoon style without being realistic.

In essence, the entire style is made to keep system requirements low because Blizzard know that the average WoW user does not have a killer rig and it's clearly them they're aiming for. With Diablo II having very detailed graphics (even though they were repeated), this feels like a step back. Instead of a gorgeously sinister world, you get a cartoonish look & feel.

a) I never mentioned Starcraft. Starcraft worked well with colours. Starcraft was not about a dark world invaded by Satan's minions in a gothic style.
b) I never said the game had to be all grey - but the typically crap blue and green glows where not a single blue or green light source if present is very very lazy and a typical WoW art style. Diablo II wasn't all grey either but the colour scheme added enough colour to still make the darker and greyer areas stand out. It's all about balance and it's obvious the original art team left Blizzard when looking at the wrong balance in all screenshot's I've seen so far.

Anyway, try again instead of dismissing my points with nonsense.

You should be more careful about accusing people of straw maning something when you're just gonna go and misunderstand the point...

My fault for not trying to dig up a D2 alpha screen, cause obviously using one from another of their games made it too complicated for you...

Wow, an early alpha lacking details, how utterly unexpected...


The reason why i didn't bother with the details is that this conversation is old, even before D3 was announced even (not that it stopped anyone from being retarded).

As to the complaint made earlier that Blizzard doesn't cater to hardcore gamers- I don't think they should. I think that for the most part hardcore gamers have moved to consoles, and catering to a minority of game players would be a poor move on Blizzard's part.

Hardcore on consoles = Halo and Gears... so they don't qualify, as much as they wish it did...

 

[crono1224]

I prefer a tad more bright colors, its annoying to try and see really dark none diffrentiated color tones. As for hardcore gamers moving to console, i'm not sure what qualifies someone as hard core, or a game as hard core, I hardly see any games that qualify console as 'hardcore' or pc gaming as less 'hard-core'.

 

[Shegokigo]

I prefer a tad more bright colors, its annoying to try and see really dark none diffrentiated color tones. As for hardcore gamers moving to console, i'm not sure what qualifies someone as hard core, or a game as hard core, I hardly see any games that qualify console as 'hardcore' or pc gaming as less 'hard-core'.

http://www.miraigamer.net/cavestory/
http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Main_Page

HARDCORE!

 

[AshburnerX]

For a game to be Hardcore, it has to show a disregard for the learning curve at a fairly early point in the game and the difficulty ether needs to stay at that ball-bustingly hard level or get even harder as the game progresses. The game also needs to feel satisfying to the player once they achieve the level of skill required to get the most out of the game... the game can't simply be difficult, it also needs to derive some of its fun in being able to master its difficulty. Keep in mind that the entirety of the game needs to be hard... certain sections of an easy game that are hard (like say Through the Fire and Flames in Guitar Hero) do not make a game hardcore, they simply make it have hardcore extras.

Multi-player games accomplish this over time by the emergency of scrubs that refuse to go easy on anyone, but some single player titles (like Godhand, Ninja Gaiden, or the Armored Core series) can rarely achieve this status as well.

 

[Shegokigo]

Multi-player games accomplish this over time by the emergency of scrubs that refuse to go easy on anyone, but some single player titles (like Godhand, Ninja Gaiden, or the Armored Core series) can rarely achieve this status as well.

Absolutely ADORE the Armored Core series, I own 9 titles from PS1 to PSP. Loved them all, especially the ones that allow you to carry over some rare armor/weapons.

 

[crono1224]

would playing a rpg in a language you don't speak count? I don't get it. Probably because its an arbitrary term with subjective deffinitions.