WTF Wisconsin? (Formerly Walker convo thread)
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FUCKING LOL! Oh, Grothman, when you talk, why is it you sound like a parody?
Grothman says "Almost no black people today care about Kwanzaa -- just white left-wingers who try to shove this down black people's throats in an effort to divide Americans,".
Grothman says "Almost no black people today care about Kwanzaa -- just white left-wingers who try to shove this down black people's throats in an effort to divide Americans,".
Dave
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I know none of my black friend give a damn about Kwanzaa. That's not to say that it's not important to some people, but my empirical evidence shows a marked indifference toward it. Of course, in my circle of friends there are a lot of things that are ignored that are important to others - confession, lent,etc. - so I may not be the best example.
Because he's talking about kwanza
How does the existence of Kwanzaa affect this man in any way? Why does he care if some people, even if it's only a few, celebrate Kwanzaa? No one is taking Christmas away. No one is mandating that he do anything differently. Is it that much trouble to acknowledge something else exists?
Fucking idiot.
Fucking idiot.
He's aiming his remarks primarily at Democrats making sure schools teach about this holiday and essentially force celebration of it during December, along with a number of other holidays.
As he correctly points out it is practiced by relatively few people. Wikipedia sheds some light on why it hasn't had much traction in the black community - it was meant to replace Christmas and christian traditions, not to add to the December festivities:
Kwanzaa is more about teaching people about African culture and heritage to act as a touchstone for african-americans.
Most people I talk to about it know what it is, and would rather be known as "americans" and be a part of the "american culture" (such as it is) than be considered displaced africans.
So the question is what is the importance of the holiday to our community, and should schools spend time and resources teaching about it? Of course this is a discussion to be held at the school district level, rather than the state or national level, because it may well be more important in New York, NY than Bismark, ND.
Keep in mind that in order to celebrate Christmas, schools must give equal time to other "major" holidays so as to appear to meet the establishment clause.
It's worth reminding people to take a look at what they're teaching though, to see if it's still relevant.
If few people are celebrating Kwanzaa, is it actually racist to suggest that it be dropped from the school holiday celebrations?
It seems many people here think it's racist to even suggest we have a conversation about it. Certainly the democrats are jumping down his throat for even broaching the question. But they certainly aren't talking about the question - they are talking about the man.
Yes, he could have phrased it much more diplomatically, but as every politician knows, controversy causes conversation. It's the same reason the democrats are ready to throw him on a pyre for bringing it up - if they make level headed comments talking about the issue (rather than talking about how racist he must be) then they won't get any column space.
So why post about it here? Just to ridicule the man who brought it up and participate in his public hazing, or to have a discussion about this holiday and how much of our public education funding goes towards its celebration?
As he correctly points out it is practiced by relatively few people. Wikipedia sheds some light on why it hasn't had much traction in the black community - it was meant to replace Christmas and christian traditions, not to add to the December festivities:
Of course he didn't gain much traction except under the black power movement in the late 60's when he introduced it, partially because many (perhaps the majority at the time) black people were strongly religious and christian. So he later changed the holiday as one to be practiced in addition to Christmas.
Kwanzaa is more about teaching people about African culture and heritage to act as a touchstone for african-americans.
Most people I talk to about it know what it is, and would rather be known as "americans" and be a part of the "american culture" (such as it is) than be considered displaced africans.
So the question is what is the importance of the holiday to our community, and should schools spend time and resources teaching about it? Of course this is a discussion to be held at the school district level, rather than the state or national level, because it may well be more important in New York, NY than Bismark, ND.
Keep in mind that in order to celebrate Christmas, schools must give equal time to other "major" holidays so as to appear to meet the establishment clause.
It's worth reminding people to take a look at what they're teaching though, to see if it's still relevant.
If few people are celebrating Kwanzaa, is it actually racist to suggest that it be dropped from the school holiday celebrations?
It seems many people here think it's racist to even suggest we have a conversation about it. Certainly the democrats are jumping down his throat for even broaching the question. But they certainly aren't talking about the question - they are talking about the man.
Yes, he could have phrased it much more diplomatically, but as every politician knows, controversy causes conversation. It's the same reason the democrats are ready to throw him on a pyre for bringing it up - if they make level headed comments talking about the issue (rather than talking about how racist he must be) then they won't get any column space.
So why post about it here? Just to ridicule the man who brought it up and participate in his public hazing, or to have a discussion about this holiday and how much of our public education funding goes towards its celebration?
I don't know why you think it's racist to criticize a man for declaring that Kwanza is how white lefties "divide America".
I can't speak to how other people in this board meant it, of course, but if you really think that the only way this is an issue is because it invokes a small minority of black Americans...
I can't speak to how other people in this board meant it, of course, but if you really think that the only way this is an issue is because it invokes a small minority of black Americans...
They already teach eurocentric history classes. I don't find a little diversity being forced into the school system to be such a bad thing. The bad part of it is they won't include all that stuff you included, such as the history of the religion which can paint it in a negative light, just the 'oh, and some blacks celebrate kwanzaa'.
And you don't know Grothman. It's not just a public hazing, this guy is a racist homophobe (told my friend Nick there were no homosexuals when he was in high school and homosexuality was a recent phenomenon). He gets voted into office because he has an R in front of his name.
And you don't know Grothman. It's not just a public hazing, this guy is a racist homophobe (told my friend Nick there were no homosexuals when he was in high school and homosexuality was a recent phenomenon). He gets voted into office because he has an R in front of his name.
I've read your post several times over and still don't understand whether it was aimed at me, nevermind what you're trying to say.
So here's a toaster bunny:
A Primer on Glenn Grothman, for those who don't know the man.
1. Speaking in support of Governor Scott Walker's decision to repeal the Wisconsin Equal Pay Act, Grothman stated that he believes that money is more important to men than to women, and women do not therefore need as much. [5]
2.Grothman has argued that Martin Luther King, Jr. Day should not be a work holiday, calling the day off "an insult to all the other taxpayers around the state". He has expressed doubts that "state workers would be 'checking out DVDs or reading books' about King and would probably just be out shopping or watching television instead."[6] He released a statement opposing a Kwanzaa holiday, stating that we should "treat Kwanzaa with the contempt it deserves before it becomes a permanent part of our culture."[7]
3. He is a co-sponsor of Senate Bill 19 (2011), which removes the requirement of mandatory disinfection of groundwater in municipal water systems, a requirement that was imposed in reaction to a Cryptosporidium outbreak in 1993, which killed at least 104 citizens of Milwaukee, and sickened thousands of others.[8][9]
4. He opposed a provision in a 2010 sex education law that prohibited teachers from promoting bias based on sexual orientation, saying that he did not believe the topic should be discussed at all in the public schools. According to the Capitol Times, Grothman's opposition was based on "the belief that instructors who lead these talks would have what he called an "agenda" to persuade students to become gay."[10] Grothman believes the kindergarten program for 4-year-olds should be defunded by Governor Scott Walker because any academic benefits disappear by the fourth grade, and the program is used by school districts to pad their budgets to get more state aid.[11]
5. In February 2012, Grothman introduced Senate Bill 507, which would amend Wisconsin statutes to emphasize single parenthood as a contributing factor to child abuse and neglect.[14] He also sponsored State Bill 202, which would have repealed the Equal Pay Enforcement Act, saying that the "Left and the social welfare establishment want children born out of wedlock because they are far more likely to be dependent on the government."[15]
I'm not just making fun of him because he says silly things from time to time, he truly is a deplorable human being.
1. Speaking in support of Governor Scott Walker's decision to repeal the Wisconsin Equal Pay Act, Grothman stated that he believes that money is more important to men than to women, and women do not therefore need as much. [5]
2.Grothman has argued that Martin Luther King, Jr. Day should not be a work holiday, calling the day off "an insult to all the other taxpayers around the state". He has expressed doubts that "state workers would be 'checking out DVDs or reading books' about King and would probably just be out shopping or watching television instead."[6] He released a statement opposing a Kwanzaa holiday, stating that we should "treat Kwanzaa with the contempt it deserves before it becomes a permanent part of our culture."[7]
3. He is a co-sponsor of Senate Bill 19 (2011), which removes the requirement of mandatory disinfection of groundwater in municipal water systems, a requirement that was imposed in reaction to a Cryptosporidium outbreak in 1993, which killed at least 104 citizens of Milwaukee, and sickened thousands of others.[8][9]
4. He opposed a provision in a 2010 sex education law that prohibited teachers from promoting bias based on sexual orientation, saying that he did not believe the topic should be discussed at all in the public schools. According to the Capitol Times, Grothman's opposition was based on "the belief that instructors who lead these talks would have what he called an "agenda" to persuade students to become gay."[10] Grothman believes the kindergarten program for 4-year-olds should be defunded by Governor Scott Walker because any academic benefits disappear by the fourth grade, and the program is used by school districts to pad their budgets to get more state aid.[11]
5. In February 2012, Grothman introduced Senate Bill 507, which would amend Wisconsin statutes to emphasize single parenthood as a contributing factor to child abuse and neglect.[14] He also sponsored State Bill 202, which would have repealed the Equal Pay Enforcement Act, saying that the "Left and the social welfare establishment want children born out of wedlock because they are far more likely to be dependent on the government."[15]
I'm not just making fun of him because he says silly things from time to time, he truly is a deplorable human being.
stienman, your post makes it seem like the only way to criticize his statement is by calling him a racist. In fact, looking back at some of the responses, I'm not sure anyone besides you actually went there.
I am pointing out that you can just as easily criticize his statement for claiming that "[insert obscure liberal viewpoint] is dividing America!" which has become a catch-all argument the GOP has moved towards in a big way ever since the election when they tried to paint the President as having "divided America" into providers and free-loaders by supporting social programs.
I am pointing out that you can just as easily criticize his statement for claiming that "[insert obscure liberal viewpoint] is dividing America!" which has become a catch-all argument the GOP has moved towards in a big way ever since the election when they tried to paint the President as having "divided America" into providers and free-loaders by supporting social programs.
The article linked to, and the ones that article pointed out seemed to consist mostly of democrats calling him racist.
Which means they all say that. Hive mind and all that
And that's the only way we can criticize it?
Pretty sure you're misreading things here.
Meh. I read the article which said:
As if every politician hasn't said that at least a dozen times during their career.
Sorry I missed the point. I just don't see it as important as figuring out whether a holiday is important enough to support with public taxdollars or not.
I suppose when I bring up my vision of schools celebrating sweetest day in October, I will be met with steely silence unless I also point out that people who don't support my platform and vision are dividing america, and China will win due to their rich history of holidays which will ultimately overtake the US and eventually define the world holidonomy.
So I apparently missed the point here, which is that one politician said, "[other] party is pushing [thing] to divide america!!!1!" and therefore this politician is an idiot.
As if every politician hasn't said that at least a dozen times during their career.
Sorry I missed the point. I just don't see it as important as figuring out whether a holiday is important enough to support with public taxdollars or not.
I suppose when I bring up my vision of schools celebrating sweetest day in October, I will be met with steely silence unless I also point out that people who don't support my platform and vision are dividing america, and China will win due to their rich history of holidays which will ultimately overtake the US and eventually define the world holidonomy.
How much money actually gets spent doing that?
If the Chinese start celebrating Christmas, we're fucked.
Well, if chinese wearing Santa hats while working @ Burger King is any indication, the end has already begun.
I doubt it'll be anywhere close to what it's like here in the US and over in Europe/Russia. It's caught on in Japan but it's still not even close... it's mainly a chance to eat cake, order some KFC (because no one eats turkey in japan because it's so hard to find), and maybe exchange a few gifts.
a lot of companies are putting a lot of money into it over here. My street is covered in christmas lights and the doors to my community have pictures of santa all over the place.
seriously sick of holidays in general. They stopped being a cultural tradition and are nothing but consumerist B.S. now. Companies don't want Kwanza because they can't sell it to everyone and anyone like they can with christmas, new years, valentines day, St. Pattys day etc.
Probably, but then there will be another petition to have that overthrown... which will see court too.
Keep in mind this was a court which couldn't decide if a Supreme Court Justice attacked another one... with all the other Justices standing there.
There is no compromise with the Republican party in Wisconsin. They've been spoiled with a majority and the Governorship and somehow think this is Tea Party central.
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