Why are rape jokes out of bounds?

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Except we've been joking about rape for years and it's only become more of a focal point, gained more strength in laws and punishment, and taken much more seriously in the passing years instead of the secret people covered up in the 40s-60s. So it seems to go against your point all together.

Nice throwing in the fact that you study psychology. You aren't the only one who's had learnin.
Every assertion you make is baseless other than the fact that there are more laws nowadays. That is a direct consequence of raising awareness of rape culture (via things like the article that I linked), bringing it out into the open.

A better equivalency to your misguided slavery analogy would be acceptance of racism through permeation of racist jokes.[DOUBLEPOST=1364242954][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, my field of study is directly relevant to the conversation.
 
Every assertion you make is baseless other than the fact that there are more laws nowadays. That is a direct consequence of raising awareness of rape culture (via things like the article that I linked), bringing it out into the open.
Direct consequence of raising awareness of rape culture. Thank you.

Also, my field of study is directly relevant to the conversation.
If a student of anything walked into any place of it's relevant study, they'd be laughed clean out of the room by those who have the study and the experience. They'll also tell you that experience will often times trump and even in other situations, completely negate the study the student may have thought to be 100% factual. Since we're just throwing things out there.
 
Direct consequence of raising awareness of rape culture. Thank you.


If a student of anything walked into any place of it's relevant study, they'd be laughed clean out of the room by those who have the study and the experience. They'll also tell you that experience will often times trump and even in other situations, completely negate the study the student may have thought to be 100% factual. Since we're just throwing things out there.
Awesome, thanks for dismissing both my intelligence and my training.
 
If a student of anything walked into any place of it's relevant study, they'd be laughed clean out of the room by those who have the study and the experience. They'll also tell you that experience will often times trump and even in other situations, completely negate the study the student may have thought to be 100% factual. .
Um. Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump any study. I used to think you were just dumb-trolling me back, but now it's becoming more apparent that you might not understand any sort of research ever?
 
If a student of anything walked into any place of it's relevant study, they'd be laughed clean out of the room by those who have the study and the experience. They'll also tell you that experience will often times trump and even in other situations, completely negate the study the student may have thought to be 100% factual. Since we're just throwing things out there.
I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion. He posted a bit of academic research. You've dismissed it as irrelevant to your specific point. He's indicated that it suggests a likely outcome, but admits that it doesn't actually study your exact point. You go on to suggest that if he, as a "student" were to show up someplace where "professionals" work, he'd be laughed out of the office.

First, even if that were true, it'd be irrelevant.

Second, it's not true. In every industry I've spent time in, interested students are treated with a great deal of respect and while professionals may debate with them to discover what they know and whether their passion really lies in the subject, they know that the student is the future of their field, and should already know many things the professional does not. There may be individuals within an industry that prefer to hate students, for whatever reason, and push them down, but they are clearly in the minority.

This is my experience, and I am unprepared to show a study which confirms this.

Back on topic, rape jokes are like cussing. Swearing doesn't provide any useful information to a conversation that can't be made using non swear words, and likewise the good and/or funny rape jokes don't require rape, they are merely another joke tossed on the framework that rape provides, and they can be transposed into other jokes. Rape jokes that are truly and fundamentally only about rape have no worth or value in our society.
 
Um. Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump any study. I used to think you were just dumb-trolling me back, but now it's becoming more apparent that you might not understand any sort of research ever?
Pot calling the kettle black much? You've been slammed with evidence/facts for years dismissing your claims and your usual response is either to disappear from the topic or type -nah- so how about that?

Oh and I specfically addressed that the facts presented were not on the topic in question, which simply stated that it belittles the action in the eyes of the general public but my argument was that it does not increase the action in any way. So yeah, you're the one not following along.
Awesome, thanks for dismissing both my intelligence and my training.
I did neither. I was simply stating that the comment was unneeded and could be dismissed as such if used as a stepping ground over the other person speaking.
 
Back on topic, rape jokes are like cussing. Swearing doesn't provide any useful information to a conversation that can't be made using non swear words,.
walk it back, cussin' is fucking hilarious.

rewrite "Yippie Kay Yay, Motherfucker" without a cuss word or losing any of the strength
or the entirety of In The Loop / The Thick of It
 

GasBandit

Staff member
rewrite "Yippie Kay Yay, Motherfucker" without a cuss word or losing any of the strength
That joke wasn't about strength, it was about underpinning the class difference between crass New York street cop John McLaine, and the erudite and sophisticated criminal terrorist Hans Gruber (who can't even repeat the line back correctly later because of how awkward it feels coming from him).
 
That joke wasn't about strength, it was about underpinning the class difference between crass New York street cop John McLaine, and the erudite and sophisticated criminal terrorist Hans Gruber (who can't even repeat the line back correctly later because of how awkward it feels coming from him).
I agree with you! I meant strength of the joke, which is based in McClane's dirty gritty don't-give-a-fuck cop.
 
Pot calling the kettle black much? You've been slammed with evidence/facts for years dismissing your claims and your usual response is either to disappear from the topic or type -nah- so how about that?

Oh and I specfically addressed that the facts presented were not on the topic in question, which simply stated that it belittles the action in the eyes of the general public but my argument was that it does not increase the action in any way. So yeah, you're the one not following along.

I did neither. I was simply stating that the comment was unneeded and could be dismissed as such if used as a stepping ground over the other person speaking.
  • Gerd Bohner,
  • Frank Siebler,
  • and Jürgen Schmelcher
Social Norms and the Likelihood of Raping: Perceived Rape Myth Acceptance of Others Affects Men's Rape Proclivity Pers Soc Psychol Bull March 2006 32: 286-297, doi:10.1177/0146167205280912

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/32/3/286.short

For the record, here's a study that directly addresses the point I was making about social norms via minimisation.

I'll just leave it at that. If you don't accept peer reviewed studies, I don't know what you'll accept.
 
I agree with you! I meant strength of the joke, which is based in McClane's dirty gritty don't-give-a-fuck cop.
Right. It was showing that McClane was mentally incapable of expressing himself without swearing. Gruber only turned toward swearing in mockery, and as he lost control of the situation, and therefore himself.

But it's actually a terrible example, because the whole point of his phrase was to directly insult Gruber. He wasn't communicating information, he was calling him names. The lowest form of verbal debate is name calling. Might as well be back on the playground. Swearing as name calling makes sense - if you accept name calling as a reasonable response to a situation.
 
Right. It was showing that McClane was mentally incapable of expressing himself without swearing. Gruber only turned toward swearing in mockery, and as he lost control of the situation, and therefore himself.

But it's actually a terrible example, because the whole point of his phrase was to directly insult Gruber. He wasn't communicating information, he was calling him names. The lowest form of verbal debate is name calling. Might as well be back on the playground. Swearing as name calling makes sense - if you accept name calling as a reasonable response to a situation.
at least one good thing has come of this thread, I can hearby stop my world wide search for the most boring man alive
 

ElJuski

Staff member
RE: rape jokes,

Nothing's offensive if it isn't funny. Problem is, most people on the internet--or rape jokes, period--make lame jokes, period. Raunch for the sake of effect is juvenile and lazy, but a true maestro can spin that shit. Same goes for cursing, but fuck posting in that other thread.
 
RE: rape jokes,

Nothing's offensive if it isn't funny. Problem is, most people on the internet--or rape jokes, period--make lame jokes, period. Raunch for the sake of effect is juvenile and lazy, but a true maestro can spin that shit. Same goes for cursing, but fuck posting in that other thread.
*lip quivers, tear rolling down cheek*
 

Zappit

Staff member
Look at the Steubenville kids. So many of them thought it was HI-larious that a girl was being raped. Just great comedy. They were (still are) morally deficient punks that did not understand the severity of what they did and what they witnessed.

For whatever reason, rape and sexual abuse is often defended by attacking the victim, claiming he/she was asking for it. That doesn't happen with robbery or murder. Those are universally accepted as morally wrong. But it really isn't that way for sex crimes yet; there's still an ongoing battle to get a bunch of knuckle-draggers to realize that such behavior is wrong.

That's my feeling on it. We can joke about other crimes because we accept as an entire global community that those things are wrong, but the community won't attach the same label to sex crimes. It's uncomfortable for many people to make those jokes because there might be some bonehead that thinks it's funny because he thinks it's acceptable.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Slavery is a strawman in this case. It was completely abolished by force, and wasn't based on interpersonal decisions.
Ok, I feel like I've had to repeat this too many times.

Slavery is still prevalent in the world. Slavery ISN'T GONE. It's just out of sight.
 
  • Gerd Bohner,
  • Frank Siebler,
  • and Jürgen Schmelcher
Social Norms and the Likelihood of Raping: Perceived Rape Myth Acceptance of Others Affects Men's Rape Proclivity Pers Soc Psychol Bull March 2006 32: 286-297, doi:10.1177/0146167205280912


http://psp.sagepub.com/content/32/3/286.short

For the record, here's a study that directly addresses the point I was making about social norms via minimisation.

I'll just leave it at that. If you don't accept peer reviewed studies, I don't know what you'll accept.

Very well
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800610.html

Rape has declined drastically in the past 40years. You know what's been on the rise? Rape being taken less seriously and being minimalized in the public's view. So again, noone ever watched a stand-up act, hearing a rape joke and decided, oh you know what? Rape is cool now, I'm gonna go do it because 40years ago I couldn't.

You can talk theories and theoretical studies all day, but stats and experience will always be the final word.

(I guess I should make clear that obviously rape jokes are not tied into directly the decline of rape, but my larger point is that rape has been minimalized over the past 50 years, yet it sees a steady decline for many reasons. The conjecture that minimalizing something leading to it's growth is just not a factual statement but a pyschological theory that makes sense on paper but not in practice)
 
But it's not nearly as scarring as rape, which, as far as I can tell, is a form of torture.
I see rape as more of an involuntary violation than torture. Rape has always been about pecking order (as far as I can tell) and as such the people getting raped are getting "demoted" from their current place in the social hierarchy. I'm sure there are people who rape a victim because they genuinely want to have sex with that person, were turned down, and then forged ahead anyway, but I'm not sure that doesn't end up being my first point again. It's not so much that I-am-going-to-have-sex-with-you as it is that I-am-going-to-have-sex-with-you-and-you-will-be-powerless-to-stop-me.

Rape is portrayed as funny when a person purporting to be the pinnacle of the pecking order gets pounded, a sort of, "Ha-haah, you finally get what was coming to you!" vibe.

Rape is portrayed as not funny when the act is done to "remind" someone how low they are on the totem pole, or to degrade and/or terrify the victim.

--Patrick
 
Very well
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800610.html

Rape has declined drastically in the past 40years. You know what's been on the rise? Rape being taken less seriously and being minimalized in the public's view. So again, noone ever watched a stand-up act, hearing a rape joke and decided, oh you know what? Rape is cool now, I'm gonna go do it because 40years ago I couldn't.

You can talk theories and theoretical studies all day, but stats and experience will always be the final word.

(I guess I should make clear that obviously rape jokes are not tied into directly the decline of rape, but my larger point is that rape has been minimalized over the past 50 years, yet it sees a steady decline for many reasons. The conjecture that minimalizing something leading to it's growth is just not a factual statement but a pyschological theory that makes sense on paper but not in practice)
You're drawing a causal conclusion exclusive from corollary evidence. That's the opposite of how science works. Corollary evidence is used to form hypotheses which are then tested using experimentation. The article I linked was an experimental study, not a purely theoretical study.

Your entire point revolves around the completely unfounded belief that as rape jokes have increased, rape instances have gone down. Your assertion that rape jokes have increased is completely unsupported. If anything, I'd probably say the opposite is true.
 
You're drawing a causal conclusion exclusive from corollary evidence. That's the opposite of how science works. Corollary evidence is used to form hypotheses which are then tested using experimentation. The article I linked was an experimental study, not a purely theoretical study.

Your entire point revolves around the completely unfounded belief that as rape jokes have increased, rape instances have gone down. Your assertion that rape jokes have increased is completely unsupported. If anything, I'd probably say the opposite is true.
I believe you missed the entire paragraph in parenthesis.
 
Rape was even more minimized in the past, so your point is beyond absurd.
How can it have been minimized if it was hidden from view almost completely? It was a very serious issue, so serious it couldn't even be allowed to be heard most of the time. I don't see the absurdity. It was something that wasn't even spoken by nearly any victim decades ago. Now it's out in the open, and even joked about.
 
Pretending something doesn't exist is pretty much the most extreme form of minimalisation.
I simply disagree with that. They would treat it as if it were nothing, vs something you couldn't and would be allowed to speak about because of the severity.
 
If you believe that not acknowledging that something is happening is the same as it not happening, there's nowhere we're going to be able to go with this conversation.
 
If you believe that not acknowledging that something is happening is the same as it not happening, there's nowhere we're going to be able to go with this conversation.
That's not what I wrote at all: I said they hid it because it was too severe to acknowledge in it's time BECAUSE it wasn't something minimal as you claim it was. It was hid because of it's severity not because it was simply ignored.
 
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