None of it is about persuading people. It's all about reenforcing the views of the listener/viewer, for better or worse.
Unfortunately.None of it is about persuading people. It's all about reenforcing the views of the listener/viewer, for better or worse.
Because they don't care. They don't have to pretend to care about the welfare of the rest of the world... all they have to do is extend their power base into the region to secure their own oil supplies/ability to project power and then they will look strong to their people domestically. This means supporting the regime with all the fire power, not the rag-tag group of rebels that will basically destroy the country's ability to function for several years. Unfortunately for Russia and China, any involvement by the US complicates things. Now the Russians have to worry about losing their only port in the region (and they will, if the rebels win, because the US will make it happen) and the Chinese have to worry about how this will effect their oil prices.Which does somehow raise the question of "why not show those clear proofs to the Russians and Chinese?", but I suppose you don't want to reveal sources. ANyway, we'll see what happens....
And what a pointless proxy war it is. Russia doesn't have the resources to wage proxy wars like it did before the Fall, especially compared to our capability right now. Even with China helping it's doubtful they have the kind of tools they'd need to give the army to make a difference.We did show our proof to the Russians. They said they found it "unconvincing." That's exactly how that would go if our evidence was ironclad or completely, transparently phoney. The Russians don't care about what's true, they only care about what they think suits their own personal interests - and they've been backing Bashar al-Assad since day one. And now that it looks like we're going to be supporting the rebels, they've already said they'll up their material support to Assad to counter it.
Hooray proxy wars!
This is such a low tech war, it does not matter. Russia will make tons of money on this, because we normally give away Russian weapons to our allies anyway.And what a pointless proxy war it is. Russia doesn't have the resources to wage proxy wars like it did before the Fall, especially compared to our capability right now. Even with China helping it's doubtful they have the kind of tools they'd need to give the army to make a difference.
Which is why they're working so hard to stop others from taking action, which is why the US and France are applying so much pressure. Going to congress is merely another step in a game to see how hard they're going to push us. But we haven't committed to the idea of putting troops on the ground, and with all their personnel and hardware in residential areas a real bombing campaign is politically untenable. The bombing they can do, other than as a show of force, won't accomplish anything.And what a pointless proxy war it is. Russia doesn't have the resources to wage proxy wars like it did before the Fall, especially compared to our capability right now. Even with China helping it's doubtful they have the kind of tools they'd need to give the army to make a difference.
And it's working great.The whole thing is political posturing, as far as the US goes. All this very public "We're gonna! We're SO gonna!" for days and now weeks is giving Assad time to move his sensitive targets into population zones and get the human shields up and in position. If our government was really serious about fixing the Assad problem, it would have quickly and quietly done so already. But all the cable news kabuki shows how really it's just a great big flashing-and-spinning-lights distraction from domestic issues and scandals.
What's he doin'?It really does bother me how long it's taken to strike.
Rand Paul is a complete piece of shit by the way.
Which is horrible, horrible, horrible as dozens if not hundreds die each day.But all the cable news kabuki shows how really it's just a great big flashing-and-spinning-lights distraction from domestic issues and scandals.
I doubt it. They'll keep the command centers and such just where they were, they'll just house as many women and children in the same buildings as possible, so that anybody attacking it looks as monstrous as possible.Well, forcing Assad and the rebels to protect their hardware should, at least temporarily, slow down their fighting.
Really he's just doing what we should expect, he's on isolationist.
Btw, watch fox news of you have a chance. They have no idea what to do right now since they are caught between Boehner and the tea party.
They wen from being pro-strike (while criticizing the delays Obama has made) to being isolationist (implying a strike would provoke retaliation from Russia) in one 5 minute bit.
They have no idea how to straddle this fence. Eat a huge bag of dicks Fox. This is what you get.
Succinct and insightful.Fuck the (world) police
I agree 100% with GasBandit.I've seen polls that say the American populace opposes military action in Syria by 2 to 1. Surprise, surprise, our political overlords are disconnected from the electorate they purport to serve, and are going full bore autistic autopilot on a crash course with tragedy and misfortune. There is no US interest served by helping either side in the Syrian civil war, and "stopping the killing" is so trite as to be cynical - as noted previously, there's so much killing going on by tyrants/zealots all over the world that we don't even bother mentioning, that the excuse rings hollow.
There there, Dave. We'll get through this. I'm sure you'll disagree with him on something in the next 5 minutes. Till then, stay strong.I agree 100% with GasBandit.
Holy shit.
If people didn't want this they should have spoken up when the chemical weapons treaties were signed. We should have all stood up and said "you know what, I don't like chemical weapons, but I'm not willing to do anything about so fuck it".I've seen polls that say the American populace opposes military action in Syria by 2 to 1. Surprise, surprise, our political overlords are disconnected from the electorate they purport to serve, and are going full bore autistic autopilot on a crash course with tragedy and misfortune. There is no US interest served by helping either side in the Syrian civil war, and "stopping the killing" is so trite as to be cynical - as noted previously, there's so much killing going on by tyrants/zealots all over the world that we don't even bother mentioning, that the excuse rings hollow.
You're only giving a shit about this because you're being told that you need to give a shit about this right now or something terrible will happen immediately! Think of the CHILDREN! If you don't think that people in Washington are driving up the attention on this in order to distract people from the very real violations of the fourth amendment you are a fool. Your idea of how getting involved in Syria benefits US interests is incredibly abstract, about 5 steps removed, and frankly laughable. What makes your post so particularly hilarious though is that every argument given can be applied to the Iraq situation in 2004. If I didn't know any better I'd say you were trying to make a parody post.If people didn't want this they should have spoken up when the chemical weapons treaties were signed. We should have all stood up and said "you know what, I don't like chemical weapons, but I'm not willing to do anything about so fuck it".
Fuck that. I am so god damned tired of everyone saying they are for something and doing nothing about it.
Words. Words. Fucking limp useless words. Words only mean something when backed up by action. This is something the current Internet generation of anonymous tough guys don't get.
Here's the deal:
-Chemical weapons are fucking evil
-our intel is as good as its going to get
-it's time to man the fuck up and do what we said we would do.
Also what in the actual fuck does the NSA have to do with any of this? Did you seriously just act like NSA wiretapping is worse than gassing children?
What is wrong with you people?[DOUBLEPOST=1378315386,1378315208][/DOUBLEPOST]And the idea that there is no US interest served by this is so far from true it's laughable. Here's what it means:
When we say stop or we'll shoot, you damn well better stop.
Do any of you even get that that's how world peace works? MAD has kept us safe only because the world knows that there are people out there that will follow through on their promises.[DOUBLEPOST=1378315959][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, while I would rather the US lead through dialogue and diplomacy, when it comes to dictators I am perfectly fine with us leading through fear.
How many people here cried for Gadaffi?
After Iraq, there isn't a whole lot of trust in what the government says is "proof". If they want us to get behind this, they need to make their case to us. They lost our trust, and need to earn it back. Show us the proof.What is wrong with you people?