Syria, isolationism, and world police?

strawman

strawman

Well, looks like a "solution" has been found, and by "solution" I mean "A way for Obama to avoid pissing US citizens off without going back on his 'red line' speech".

Kerry suggested offhand that perhaps if Syria turned over all their chemical weapons to UN control, military force might be unnecessary. The Russians picked up on that, ran with it, and got Assad to tentatively agree to it. France is insisting that the UN only accept custody of the weapons on condition of planned destruction of the chemical WMDs by the UN.

Obama's new foreign policy: let Kerry ramble on for a few hours and see what comes up.

I don't know if Obama can recover this issue given how bad he fumbled it. I suppose we'll see tonight if his speech is interesting, polls have him at the lowest foreign policy approval rating of his presidency, and I'm sure new polls will be done after his speech.

If he interrupts America's Got Talent finals, though, I'm voting for impeachment...
:popcorn:
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
What I want to know is where Janine Garofolo, Tim Robbins, and Sean Penn have been all this time, so very quiet. Every Hollywood Iraq protester just lost every last shred of credibility.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
sixpackshaker said:
How is this anything like the lead up to the Iraq War?
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Yeah, I guess you're right... at least Bush went to the UN, built a coalition of 40 nations, and got congressional approval first. That's all completely different.

And I guess it is different how last time the intel was supposed to be phoney and no intelligence gathering service was given any credence, and this time it's sancrosanct, even if unseen.

And of course, this time we're talking about air strikes only, not "boots on the ground." So it's not at all like Iraq. More like Pearl Harbor, another limited air strike with no boots on the ground. Clearly not an open act of war, right?
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

GasBandit said:
Yeah, I guess you're right... at least Bush went to the UN, built a coalition of 40 nations, and got congressional approval first. That's all completely different.

And I guess it is different how last time the intel was supposed to be phoney and no intelligence gathering service was given any credence, and this time it's sancrosanct, even if unseen.

And of course, this time we're talking about air strikes only, not "boots on the ground." So it's not at all like Iraq. More like Pearl Harbor, another limited air strike with no boots on the ground. Clearly not an open act of war, right?
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Very true. Some people are still protesting (I was against going to Afghanistan, Iraq AND Syria, despite being also against US isolationism - go figure!), but those staying oh so very quite this time, just like those now suddenly opposing the war while backing the former, do show their colors as being "I care about this issue because of national politics, not because of people or justice".

I was also against Obama getting the Peace Price for "being a high-office black guy and not being Bush" - and I'm sad to say I think I've been proven right. Heck, Clinton's Peace Price was at least understandable because besides going to war, he stopped some as well. Obama? Myeah. "Not as bad as Bush", perhaps, but certainly not what I'd say deserves a NPP.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Issuing guidance to federal prosecutors to restrict the circumstances under which pot users can be charged is a good first step. As is telling Holder to not challenge marijuana legality laws.

The sooner the War on Drugs grinds to a halt (or at least stops freaking out about pot) the better.
 
Terrik

Terrik

Just as an aside, while I'm totally drunk off my ass, I happened to bring the Obama/Bush issue up to a few Chinese people I was drinking with this evening. One was a hardcore nationalist, one was completely against the Party, and both said Obama was terrible and Bush was much better. Their reasons being that Bush understood Chinese culture better while Obama seemed to be picking a fight. Both agreed that Obama being elected was a monumental occasion but Obamas policies in regards to Asia/China left a lot to be desired. i don't know if thats a compliment or a condemnation.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Terrik said:
Just as an aside, while I'm totally drunk off my ass, I happened to bring the Obama/Bush issue up to a few Chinese people I was drinking with this evening. One was a hardcore nationalist, one was completely against the Party, and both said Obama was terrible and Bush was much better. Their reasons being that Bush understood Chinese culture better while Obama seemed to be picking a fight. Both agreed that Obama being elected was a monumental occasion but Obamas policies in regards to Asia/China left a lot to be desired. i don't know if thats a compliment or a condemnation.
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Well, he did campaign as a great uniter... and many stripes of former adversaries are uniting... in opposition to him.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
Well, he did campaign as a great uniter... and many stripes of former adversaries are uniting... in opposition to him.
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Say what you will about LeLouche Vi Britannia's wholesale slaughter of entire empires, he understood that it's far easier to unite the world in hatred and fear than it is to do the same with peace and love. Sometimes you just have to ask yourself what kind of legacy you REALLY want to leave: one that makes people remember you fondly or one that actually endures.
 
Tress

Tress

From over here I get the distinct impression China is the one picking the fight, and almost any president would have similar policies.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
AshburnerX said:
Say what you will about LeLouche Vi Britannia's wholesale slaughter of entire empires, he understood that it's far easier to unite the world in hatred and fear than it is to do the same with peace and love. Sometimes you just have to ask yourself what kind of legacy you REALLY want to leave: one that makes people remember you fondly or one that actually endures.
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Ok, but if we're going to be citing Code Geass as political parable, bear in mind Lelouche's entire goal was to bring down his native country because he disagreed with its political ideology after being raised primarily in a foreign nation and culture with historical animosity toward his own.

/SUBtlety with a nuclear SUB
 
Terrik

Terrik

Tress said:
From over here I get the distinct impression China is the one picking the fight, and almost any president would have similar policies.
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Could be, I'm just saying that was their impression. This isn't the first time I've heard in China that Bush greatly strengthened the US-China relationship. Also, I don't remember writing that last night.
 
Espy

Espy

I am enjoying watching my conservative friends on FB praising Putin as such a clear headed and strong leader. Plus he's got the right idea about the gays apparently.

I mean, look, Obama dropped the ball pretty badly on this one but really? Putin is the guy you are going to suddenly rally behind? Yikes.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

And that's the state of American politics... the "real Americans" are actively supporting an old school fascist/communist leader because he's white, hates the gays, and isn't their current president.
 
Espy

Espy

AshburnerX said:
And that's the state of American politics... the "real Americans" are actively supporting an old school fascist/communist leader because he's white, hates the gays, and isn't their current president.
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As much as I wish it wasn't true thats pretty much what it looks like.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

This situation would be like South Korea going rouge and China threatening to bomb... the only nation with the clout to settle things would be the USA.
 
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