Video Game News and Miscellany

[AshburnerX]

I don't see why it's silly. Would it be silly to grouse over a Spielberg movie starring a casting director's wet dream A-list that was only 40 minutes long?

Yes, because it's still a Spielberg movie and fantastic. I might not want to pay $20 for the DVD though. Would you want to see a 3 hour epic from the same crew, only to discover than 2 hours 20 minutes of it is basically filler?

Game length is only meaningful when it's full of meaningful content. If they couldn't put 60 hours of meaningful content into Stick of Truth but put 12 hours of AMAZING stuff in it, then that's fine. I think the real issue is that we shouldn't have to pay $60 for 12 hours... it should be more like $20-30. But all console games have an arbitrary price point because of market fixing.

 

[Frank]

Uhhhh, they've made some solid games but I wouldn't go that far. KotOR 2 was unfinished, Dungeon Siege 3 was bland as balls, NWN2 was okay at best, and Alpha Protocol ended up an underground hit after mixed-to-bad reviews.

I'm not saying SoT will be bad, as it does look like fun, but Obsidian does have kind of a shaky record.

They have INSANELY bad luck but I will fanboy (admittedly) defend those guys forever.

KOTOR2 was rushed ahead of schedule to be out for Christmas. Have you played the restored version that's been out of a little while now? It's VASTLY superior to KOTOR in every conceivable way.

DS3 I can't defend because I'm sure it was a lame-o work for hire project. From what I understand it was a perfectly average loot crawler. I don't have interest in those.

NWN2 vanilla was fine. NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer is one of the best RPGs ever made. It was the first spiritual successor to Planescape Torment (you know, widely considered one of the greatest CRPGs of all time and made by many of the founders of Obsidian) and light years beyond anything out at the same time.

Alpha Protocol is one of the most ambitious games I've ever played. It's gameplay isn't the greatest and has some easily exploitable shit in it, but how fucking crazy the entire conversation system and relationship system and how vastly the game changes based on which order you do your missions in is fucking mind boggling. I've played through it a couple of times and while the overall story stayed the same, one character who I ended up in a romance with in one playthrough was barely a footnote in another. Another one they needed more time with but was pushed out in the state it was in by SEGA.

Honestly, THQ's death is probably the best thing that happened to Stick of Truth. It probably gave them the time they fucking desperately seem to need to finish the game properly rather than having it release a year ago just before THQ's demise like was originally planned.

 

[GasBandit]

Yes, because Dr. Horrible's Sing-along Blog was fantastic.

And it was also free over the internet. I wouldn't have paid to see it in theaters at 40 minutes, much as I loved it when I watched it myself.

 

[Frank]

Yes, because it's still a Spielberg movie and fantastic. I might not want to pay $20 for the DVD though. Would you want to see a 3 hour epic from the same crew, only to discover than 2 hours 20 minutes of it is basically filler?

Game length is only meaningful when it's full of meaningful content. If they couldn't put 60 hours of meaningful content into Stick of Truth but put 12 hours of AMAZING stuff in it, then that's fine. I think the real issue is that we shouldn't have to pay $60 for 12 hours... it should be more like $20-30. But all console games have an arbitrary price point because of market fixing.

I'd watch a 40 minute Spielberg/whoever masterpiece and be more happy about it than watching another fucking 2 hour 45 minute Transformers movie.

 

[GasBandit]

Yes, because it's still a Spielberg movie and fantastic. I might not want to pay $20 for the DVD though. Would you want to see a 3 hour epic from the same crew, only to discover than 2 hours 20 minutes of it is basically filler?

Game length is only meaningful when it's full of meaningful content. If they couldn't put 60 hours of meaningful content into Stick of Truth but put 12 hours of AMAZING stuff in it, then that's fine. I think the real issue is that we shouldn't have to pay $60 for 12 hours... it should be more like $20-30. But all console games have an arbitrary price point because of market fixing.

I agree, $30 for a 12 hour game is more reasonable than 60. And you know quite well that the old norm on content length was not "filler."

 

[Piotyr]

Of all the potential pitfalls of Stick of Truth, I feel safe knowing that being rushed isn't one of them.

 

[GasBandit]

I'd watch a 40 minute Spielberg/whoever masterpiece and be more happy about it than watching another fucking 2 hour 45 minute Transformers movie.

You'd "rather watch," but would you pay to take your family to it? 30 bucks in tickets, plus the obligatory concessions?

 

[Frank]

You'd "rather watch," but would you pay to take your family to it? 30 bucks in tickets, plus the obligatory concessions?

Yes?

 

[Piotyr]

If anything, game length is the arbitrary crutch that developers (and players) use to determine the value of a game. Game length tells you nothing about the value or quality of a game.

I'd been playing Candy Crush for 3 solid months, there's probably 150 hours of gameplay there, but I wouldn't pay a dollar for it.

 

[Gilgamesh]

This argument is silly, @GasBandit is not arguing in favor of long games with mostly filler, he's saying no matter how good a game if it's too short it's not worth paying what a AAA full price game would be. Yet everyone here thinks Gas is in favor of long games just for the sake of it. Which isn't even remotely his point.

 

[AshburnerX]

I agree, $30 for a 12 hour game is more reasonable than 60. And you know quite well that the old norm on content length was not "filler."

Bullshit. The entire reason we have have grinding in games at all is because game makers in Japan were worried that people would beat their games in a weekend and then resell them quickly, thus allowing a royalty free version of the game to enter the market. Having to grind for XP was a core design choice in Dragon Quest (and all it's sequels) and early JRPGs EXPLICITLY to pad out play time and reduce the number of used copies floating around at release.

This kind of stopped being a thing past '95 (and started up again in the mid 00's), but there was a shit ton of filler in some games before that.[DOUBLEPOST=1393281293,1393281240][/DOUBLEPOST]

This argument is silly, @GasBandit is not arguing in favor of long games with mostly filler, he's saying no matter how good a game if it's too short it's not worth paying what a AAA full price game would be. Yet everyone here thinks Gas is in favor of long games just for the sake of it. Which isn't even remotely his point.

I think we can all agree on this.

 

[Piotyr]

You'd "rather watch," but would you pay to take your family to it? 30 bucks in tickets, plus the obligatory concessions?

How long is the average animated feature? I'd say a quality 70 minute animated film is worth double the price of a 3 hour Transformers slog.

 

[GasBandit]

If anything, game length is the arbitrary crutch that developers (and players) use to determine the value of a game. Game length tells you nothing about the value or quality of a game.

I'd been playing Candy Crush for 3 solid months, there's probably 150 hours of gameplay there, but I wouldn't pay a dollar for it.

It varies from genre to genre, but puzzle games, which rely on short duration but high replay, are certainly not measured by completion time. RPGs certainly are, however, and to a lesser degree so are FPSes and other story-based games.[DOUBLEPOST=1393281575,1393281475][/DOUBLEPOST]

How long is the average animated feature? I'd say a quality 70 minute animated film is worth double the price of a 3 hour Transformers slog.

Again, you guys are doing what Gil said - I'm NOT saying a long, bad game is better than a short, good game - I'm saying games, good or bad, have been getting noticeably shorter on average with every passing year, while prices have been going up to where $60 is now the new norm.

 

[Frank]

while prices have been going up to where $60 is now the new norm.

Oh, that fallacy

Here's another EB ad for SNES games

 

[Gilgamesh]

Oh, that fallacy

Wasn't that image taken from an international ad and wasn't US prices? I think I remember something along those lines as discrediting this picture.

 

[Frank]

Wasn't that image taken from an international ad and wasn't US prices? I think I remember something along those lines as discrediting this picture.

That was a bad example, probably. The EB below it is genuine American though. The inflation chart is also correct.

 

[GasBandit]

Again, can't help but notice they're all console games.

 

[Frank]

Again, can't help but notice they're all console games.

Stick of Truth is straight up a 360 title that's ported to PC and PS3. It's what we're talking about.

 

[GasBandit]

Stick of Truth is straight up a 360 title that's ported to PC and PS3. It's what we're talking about.

... which is another problem with the gaming industry today. So, how's the day-1 DLC front look?

 

[CynicismKills]

Hell, I paid $80 for Chrono Trigger on SNES when it came out. Funny thing is the swap to discs was to lower the price of development, yet game prices haven't really budged. Even NES games were about 40-60 bucks.

 

[Frank]

Hell, I paid $80 for Chrono Trigger on SNES when it came out. Funny thing is the swap to discs was to lower the price of development, yet game prices haven't really budged. Even NES games were about 40-60 bucks.

Game budgets are constantly rising though, which is why we're seeing shit like Irrational shutting up shop after selling 4 million copies.

 

[GasBandit]

Hell, I paid $80 for Chrono Trigger on SNES when it came out. Funny thing is the swap to discs was to lower the price of development, yet game prices haven't really budged. Even NES games were about 40-60 bucks.

It had to be VERY special indeed to break the 50 dollar barrier on NES. Not even Zelda 2 nor mario 3 were 59.99, and they probably could have asked whatever they wanted for them at launch.

Meanwhile, it's only been the last 6 or 8 years or so that PC games started hitting 59.99, and most of those were "because consoles."

 

[Frank]

It had to be VERY special indeed to break the 50 dollar barrier on NES. Not even Zelda 2 nor mario 3 were 59.99, and they probably could have asked whatever they wanted for them at launch.

Meanwhile, it's only been the last 6 or 8 years or so that PC games started hitting 59.99, and most of those were "because consoles."

It is usually only console ports that cost that much though there are exceptions. I'm glad I Kickstarted this:



Because fuck this:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/233250/

I'll wait till it's done.

 

[GasBandit]

It is usually only console ports that cost that much though there are exceptions. I'm glad I Kickstarted this:



Because fuck this:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/233250/

I'll wait till it's done.

Hah, and the price has come DOWN since the last time I looked at it on steam. Didn't it used to be like, $180? That was nuts.

 

[Frank]

Oh jeez, it did come down. It was 80 last time I paid attention.[DOUBLEPOST=1393283737,1393283415][/DOUBLEPOST]Confession time, I paid 22 dollars for my Stick of Truth preorder.

 

[CynicismKills]

Game budgets are constantly rising though, which is why we're seeing shit like Irrational shutting up shop after selling 4 million copies.

That's true. Bloated budgets and bad deadlines, plus pushy publishers. I wouldn't slam all this right into the "it's console's fault" camp, more so the industry as a whole is just a mess. Yearly rehashes filled with development shortcuts and released with game-breaking bugs, developers too busy working on DLC to fix broken games, etc.

It's not console or PC gamers' fault the industry is such a mess of hot garbage, it's the industry itself that's to blame. Its gotten too big for its own good.

 

[GasBandit]

Somebody referenced this earlier -

 

[Frank]

It was me. I also posted this:

Prordered. Dick in mouth confirmed.

Though, the only reason I did was because I bought a key off a guy on NeoGaf who was selling grey market Russian transfer keys for far cheaper than games are here.

 

[Hailey Knight]

From a price standpoint, I hope it's longer than 12 hours. Granted, I tend to take longer playing through a game than what's considered average. Bioshock Infinite was a game that wasn't long, but I considered worth the 60 release price, especially since I got the original for 5 bucks.

Stick of Truth may not be Bioshock Infinite caliber, but I feel I'm going to enjoy it a lot. I'll take a gamble in this case. I rarely ever buy a $60 game.

But if we're looking at dollars per time value, no, I don't think Stick of Truth is going to beat out Shin Megami Tensei IV for me. I bought that day one for 50 bucks, the most expensive 3DS game I've purchased, and got 90+ hours out of it, and that was largely the main story. I barely did any of the side quests, of which there are many. I loved every minute of it.

And Skyrim has every game beat. Between my wife and I, we must've put 400+ hours into that. That's a lot of mileage for a $60 game.

 

[Jay]

Hell, I paid $80 for Chrono Trigger on SNES when it came out. Funny thing is the swap to discs was to lower the price of development, yet game prices haven't really budged. Even NES games were about 40-60 bucks.

Same and I paid $90 + 15% tax for Aerobiz.

WORTH EVERY PENNY[DOUBLEPOST=1393288111,1393288079][/DOUBLEPOST]

Oh jeez, it did come down. It was 80 last time I paid attention.[DOUBLEPOST=1393283737,1393283415][/DOUBLEPOST]Confession time, I paid 22 dollars for my Stick of Truth preorder.

WHERE YOU FLATFOOT, WHERE

 

[Frank]

A dude on Neogaf was selling keys. If more people do again, I can snag you one easy. It comes in the form of a Steam gift.

Oh shit, reading the thread, Steam caught on to it pretty quick and region locked the gifts. I think I only managed to come in under the buzzer.

It is region locked now, so chances are it will not work.

This is a restricted gift which can only be redeemed in these countries: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Moldova, Republic of, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Ukraine, Russian Federation

 

[GasBandit]

WHERE YOU FLATFOOT, WHERE

HE SAID WHERE, YOU MARBLEMOUTHED FROG

 

[PatrThom]

I actually find it amusing that market pressures seem to be favoring games made for people with short attention spans, the sort of people who would sit down and burn through an entire season of "House of Cards" in a 2-day weekend, for instance.

--Patrick

 

[Terrik]

I'll admit, I'm turning into one of those people---but, at the same time, I'm not paying 60 bucks for a short* game.

 

[GasBandit]

I actually find it amusing that market pressures seem to be favoring games made for people with short attention spans, the sort of people who would sit down and burn through an entire season of "House of Cards" in a 2-day weekend, for instance.

--Patrick

It's amazing what stimulus/content junkies we have become, isn't it. Our ravenous appetite for "MORE OF THAT! NOW!" has only gotten worse as the market's ability to deliver it thusly has improved.