[News] The USA Police State will never satisfy its lust for beating, gassing, and imprisoning minorities

Allright, then let's take a look at the whole clip:



#1 - not sure where you're getting the wrong date issue. Top left of the shots of the door look like "2014 08 09" to me

2 - From the looks of it, the register is being worked at the top area with the flip up counter, as someone DOES pay for something up there.

Looks like he reaches in across the counter at the unmanned window & grabs something to hand to his buddy. Then a few seconds later he goes back in for another grab and gets some resistance, dropping cigars? slimjims? on the floor. Puts the box back on the counter, proceeds to pick up all the stuff off the floor, & then heads for the door. All the while the store owner/employee comes out from behind the counter & starts confronting him. As they get to the door, Brown shoves him off & then backs him down before leaving.

Not exactly the kind of behavior one would expect had a normal transaction taken place i.e. money for goods exchanged. I guess by definition it would be called a burglary, although I'd consider it to be more of "overt shoplifting", if that's indeed what happened.

Make no mistake, this is a tragedy that shouldn't happen. But the narrative of the victim as a helpless, unarmed teenager seems far from the truth. He's 6'4" 292lbs, and certainly didn't look very helpless and non-menacing when he was backing down that store owner.

Regardless, the behavior of the Ferguson PD has been reprehensible since.
 
Date issue was a different video that was being claimed as of that day, not the one you posted.

Kind of curious why the guy would've denied anything was stolen after chasing Brown to the door like that.

All that build is helpless in the face of a gun. More specifically when you catch a bullet with your head.

If he did steal something from the store, he should've gotten due process, but I don't think anyone's arguing that who doesn't work for the Ferguson PD. Same goes for how they've handled this entire situation. Yet they don't change their approach.
 
The surveillance video is a red herring, it has nothing to do with the events in question. Whether he stole something or not doesn't matter in the least, he was an unarmed civilian that was shot and killed by police.
 
Now imagine if he just got the hell out of the street. He would not have been arrested for shop lifting either.[DOUBLEPOST=1408506721,1408506686][/DOUBLEPOST]
The surveillance video is a red herring, it has nothing to do with the events in question. Whether he stole something or not doesn't matter in the least, he was an unarmed civilian that was shot and killed by police.
A cop does not have to take an ass kicking.
 
Though the protest is about Michael Brown, the attention it's received is about multiple issues, such as that Brown is hardly the first, or that several police departments across the country have military grade equipment and vehicles they don't need and aren't properly trained to use. It won't end over Brown.

But yes, the protestors have no good ending for this situation. If the officer's account is true, their standing is mostly gone (there's still the issue of how the Ferguson PD handle situations, though IA will be taking over that study) and Wilson is a free man. If the hands up situation is true, Wilson will still be a free man and the protests would start up all over again. There isn't going to be a conclusion to this where the entire police force is replaced or the damage undone or Michael Brown is alive again.
 
..... I don't know what prompted me to look into this thread.

I really should have known better.
I'm pretty sure the number of people going "all cops suck trombones" can be counted on a Ninja Turtle's hand and still have a digit to spare.



In other news, I need to stop staying up late monitoring this. It's not as if I'm actually accomplishing anything.

 
I have a rant on this matter brewing, but I'm not going to release it into the wild until I can get my thoughts in order and do some research to provide factual basis for my personal feelings.


But suffice it to say that I'm by far in the minority on this matter in my feelings. And I will stand in a line and defend to the death my convictions. I stand with Officer Darren Wilson, until such time as evidence proves otherwise.

Go ahead and block me or deride me at your leisure. There are a great many issues that I can get wishy-washy about, for any number of reasons.

But on something like this, where an officer was in a fight for his life against a subject who pummeled his skull to the extent that his orbit was smashed? Nope.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
If it's true, it's a huge development. But I'm unable to find any corroboration for the "orbital blowout" angle that isn't the Gateway Pundit, or citing him as a source. GP is a very right wing blogger, and isn't naming his source for this smashed orbital thing. You'd think if it were the case, the Ferguson PD would be trumpeting it from every mountain and rooftop.

Fact of the matter is, we don't have the whole story. Everybody from the internet pundits to the media ubercorps to the reporters on the streets have an angle and an axe to grind, and they've all got Pulitzers dancing in their eyes for covering the "great race riot/war of 2014." Hopefully as the investigation and court hearings proceed, we'll start to get more facts on the case.

In other news, FPD spokespeople are saying 93% of the people they have arrested so far are turning out not to be Ferguson residents.
 
I actually hadn't seen that the officer's injuries were that severe. Original reports painted a very different picture.

It seems that the events going on are becoming less and less about the event that sparked it, but growing tension between the residents and police. It's a complicated powder keg and the whole situation is just... bad.

Militarization of police forces is still a subject that needs to be tackled, though. If anything at all positive can come out of this, hopefully that conversation will, but I don't know if anything constructive can be salvaged, or what can be repaired.
 
I don't think we'll ever know what "really" happened. Too many people pushing their particular narratives.

It's difficult to buy the "official" version of what went down when their version of what's happened since has sometimes been debunked in mid-sentence.

And then... I think... dear Lord, what about OC, Frank, and those guys watching over my ass each and every night? The ones who had nothing to do with any of this and are just doing the job they are tasked with the best way they know how. Only thing I know what to do is to not even bring it up around them. :(
 
surprise, Officer Charon is an unapologetic fascist. Spoiler - all your carefully researched words are still going to be evil bullshit no matter how many citations, save your strength to fire tear gas if a protest comes to Georgia

also remember when you guys mocked me when I called the US a police state

also just floored that Steinman is on the side of the white authority group
 
surprise, Officer Charon is an unapologetic fascist. Spoiler - all your carefully researched words are still going to be evil bullshit no matter how many citations, save your strength to fire tear gas if a protest comes to Georgia

also remember when you guys mocked me when I called the US a police state

also just floored that Steinman is on the side of the white authority group
Whelp, that's that, abandoning thread. Ta ta now.
 
good, no one should read Officer Charon's tacit endorsement of state-sponsored murder, god bless the blue shield, please protect darren wilson from being taken off PAID ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVE, the fucking HORROR[DOUBLEPOST=1408523589,1408523418][/DOUBLEPOST]Wait, actually, I take all of the above back if you're joking. I just thought about it and having an avatar that literally says "I SUPPORT DARREN WILSON" on a police badge is a pretty good troll. So if you're joking, then hah, good job man
 
surprise, Officer Charon is an unapologetic fascist. Spoiler - all your carefully researched words are still going to be evil bullshit no matter how many citations, save your strength to fire tear gas if a protest comes to Georgia
Correction: I'm a moderate, which looks like a fascist to a leftie, and a commie to a right-winger.

Go soak your head, Charlie. With the knowledge that I have of this incident, I would have probably reacted the same way as Officer Wilson, ceasing firing only after the threat was ended. Because at the end of the day, if the choice comes down to him going home to his family, or me to mine, I know for certain that I'm going home.
 
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And this thread was going so well.

With Brown being as tall as he was, I'm curious how Wilson got a shot to enter through the top of his head and out of his neck while Brown was charging him.

 
And this thread was going so well.

With Brown being as tall as he was, I'm curious how Wilson got a shot to enter through the top of his head and out of his neck while Brown was charging him.

Picture a man charging, lowering his head and shoulders to tackle at the midsection.
 
Or picture a man, on his knees with his arms raised, pleading for his life and saying "don't shoot", and getting shot in the arm two or three times, and bending over in pain
If his hands were raised, how did the bullets strike the front of his arms? This is the autopsy from the family.

So far the "eye" witness accounts are total bull shit.
 
Lets keep it civil guys. This is an important story and one we should be discussing for a variety of reasons. @Charlie Don't Surf I get that you are upset, take it down a notch buddy. If you can't have a conversation without freaking out take a break. I say that as someone who actually thinks your views on this are something people need to hear. They won't hear them though if you don't drop from an 11 to something in the 5-7 range.
 
Wow, this last day has been a bit active on this thread.
Sure there seems to be a bit of trolling going on in this thread, but it seems to be confined to one or two people. Also, OC appears to not be taking the bait. Riled by it, sure, but not biting...a useful skill in a public servant.

--Patrick
 

Dave

Staff member
surprise, Officer Charon is an unapologetic fascist. Spoiler - all your carefully researched words are still going to be evil bullshit no matter how many citations, save your strength to fire tear gas if a protest comes to Georgia
Really?!? Fucking really?!? O_C has done absolutely nothing to have you attack him like that. He's never - NEVER! - shown you anything that would put him in "unapologetic fascist" territory. Not a god damned thing. I believe you owe that man an apology.
 
Really?!? Fucking really?!? O_C has done absolutely nothing to have you attack him like that. He's never - NEVER! - shown you anything that would put him in "unapologetic fascist" territory. Not a god damned thing. I believe you owe that man an apology.
Here, here. Don't take your anger out on the only police officer you know. Charlie's whole...thing reeks of shit stirring.
 
Yeah... I may not share @Officer_Charon 's views, but I can at least understand why he has them and respect the decorum he usually shows us in the "Fuck the Police" crowd. He's also done nothing to deserve the kind of personal attack you made Charlie.

So... Shut up, Charlie.
 

Dave

Staff member
I'm not even saying Charlie needs to shut up. He's allowed his opinions, even if I disagree with them. But like everything else with free speech, you are responsible for the content of your actions. So while he doesn't need to shut up, he does need to apologize.
 
For those of you who don't know how HARD it is to be a cop sometimes, this little story should get you up to speed. I borrowed it from an answer a cop gave regarding his personal experiences dealing with such things.


At about 01:30 in the morning, I pulled up in my cruiser to a medical office building to follow up on a theft case I was working on. The parking lot is not very well lit. As I step out of my cruiser, a man runs towards me, holding something in his right hand. It's dark, and all I can make out is that it's thin, about 6" long, and one half is wrapped in cloth. He starts swinging it around, yelling "I'll fucking kill you! I'll eat you! I'll fuck you!"

I draw my firearm, point it at him, and start giving loud verbal commands. At the same time, I radio dispatch for help. He's not responding to my commands. He's still yelling, swinging the item, making stabbing motions, making threats. He starts approaching slowly, I back off to keep distance. We start moving into the street. About that time my backup shows up. Other officers draw down on the man, start giving verbal commands. He's still not responding.

At this point, it would have been prudent to tase him, but my department doesn't equip us with tasers.

We finally end up in a well lit area across from a restaurant (and boy oh boy, were the cell phones out.) As we're continuing to go back and forth with this guy, one of my backup units gets in close enough to see that what he's holding isn't a knife, and doesn't look like a shank, either. He hits the guy with OC spray to no effect, and then moves in with a baton, striking the hand holding the object. The guy finally drops the object, we all move in and take him down.

Bonus: He's covered in feces and urine.

So what was the object? All that time? A ninja turtles toothbrush.

Here's the thing: At any time during that encounter, from the time he initially approached me aggressively to the time we were finally able to see what the item was, had he charged at me or another officer, or a bystander, I (we) would have shot and killed him. Now I did have the presence of mind during the encounter to wonder if the item was in fact a knife, because I've had similar experiences before. But given his behavior, and the way he was brandishing it, I had perfectly good reason to believe that it was a weapon. More importantly, I'm not going to let my own doubts get me killed.

So what if I had killed him?

Well, the cell phone videos would be out. The media would report, initially, the most simple version of the story:
Townsville Metro Police Kill Man Wielding Toothbrush.

Reddit is pretty quick with things like this, so shortly thereafter on the front page:
Police officer MURDERS man over ninja turtles toothbrush.

The initial news headline would play out for a bit, until they got a few more details.
Townsville Metro Police Shoot Young Black Man Wielding Toothbrush.

Another media outlet, upset that they didn't get the initial scoop, goes with something a bit more sensational to grab the media consumer's attention:
Townsville Police Kill Unarmed Young Black Man.

There you have it. The average media consumer's opinion has already been formed by the headline - many won't even bother to read the story. Even if they did, the story will contain the most basic of details. Cops shoot guy, guy only has toothbrush.

Here's what the stories won't contain: My thoughts and feelings upon the initial encounter. The things that I can (or can't) see. My fear. My wondering if I'm about to kill a man, and how I'm going to deal with that. Am I going to break down like so many others? Become an alcoholic? What if it doesn't stop him? What if he kills me? I need help. Where are they? What's taking them so long? Who is this man? Why does he want to kill me? What if a bystander walks into this? I can't let him take a hostage. Goddamnit where is my backup?!

And then later: My god, I almost killed a man over a toothbrush. Would it have been justified? Maybe the courts would have exonerated me, but would I still get fired? Could I forgive myself?

Great, I've got someone else's shit and piss all over me for the third time this week.

And then, much later...well, just imagine, after all that, how it feels to see someone watch a massively abbreviated news report on the incident, form an entire opinion based upon that miniscule amount of information (and their complete lack of qualified expertise or experience) and condemn me for my decisions. As weird as it sounds, this is my job - my expertise. Criticizing me for how I deal with a shit covered maniac is no different than you walking in on an open heart surgery and telling the surgeon he's using the wrong scalpel.

Don't let the media form your opinions. Understand that investigations can take a very long time. Most importantly, understand that these situations are often so massively complicated that no journalist could ever truly convey all of the details - especially what's going on in my head when I have to make that critical, life altering decision.
When it comes down to it, if it's between a cop's life or a threat, the threat will nearly always get neutralized. Cops are humans to and have a home to go to.

So if you're not a cop and don't listen to what a cop says you should do, odds are, it won't end very well for you.

When it comes down to what is happening down there, many people are at fault.

First, the protesters not being more organized. Secondly, the rioters who aren't even from that place taking advantage of the situation. Thirdly, the police for escalating the problem with their militarization and lastly the big wigs of that place of having a mostly white police force with less than a handful black cops in a place where 75% of the population is black.

John Oliver covered it nicely.



The whole situation is dreadful, a joke... but don't take it out on other folks who do this for a living like Frank and OC.
 
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