Seeing as she said absolutely nothing about death or killing, I have absolutely no idea what you're on about.
The Zoe Quinn sex-for-reviews scandal
- Thread starter GasBandit
- Start date
You fail at being a straight male gamer. Who knows, you might be gay. Or you might actually be, I dunno, a movie watcher or something.As someone who didn't enjoy Bayonetta do I fail at being male?
All right, because I actually give a shit about this stupid game, I'm going to listen to a Sarkeesian video and hope I don't become a frothing troll monster for it.[DOUBLEPOST=1413618664,1413618070][/DOUBLEPOST]"Sold over a million units in just four months." That isn't impressive.
"overly sexualized adolescent male fantasy" And this tells me she never played the game. I thought the same before I played the game, but I was wrong. At some point I need to get my wife to write up her viewpoint.
"literally strip her" Yeah, that's pretty gross. And while it is innovative, doesn't mean it's good.
Video finished. GUHEFIUFFUMENSRIGHTSEFHWQOI#HQ#()F
As I expected from what others have said, I agree with her overall message, but her examples are poorly-chosen. If I hadn't played Bayonetta ever, I'd probably be speaking agreement like Charlie, but having played the game, I know that the surface it presents is not accurate. That said, the advertising is only a surface thing and it's inappropriate and potentially harmful.
You know, she has like half a point, and then goes way overboard and completely undermines her own point.
Yes, Bayonetta is incredibly sexualized. Ridiculously so. And yet, she's in control of her sexuality rather than victimized - so isn't that empowering rather than degrading? Not to mention I'm not uncertain that her design wouldn't also appeal to women who like women, just saying...
The combat mechanics aren't all that different from Devil May Cry, God of War, or Heavenly Sword, being focused on highly stylistic combos and flashy special attacks. So she's just off on that one.
Yes, there are a lot of female character who are absurdly designed, particularly to titillate male gamers - the Soul Calibur series alone has Ivy, Taki, and Sophitia as incredibly fanservice-y, and let's not even get started on the Dead or Alive franchise. And yet, both of those were, at least initially, extremely solid fighting games in terms of gameplay.
When you make over-encompassing statements like that one, you lose credibility, and weaken a discussion that is actually fairly worth having.
Yes, Bayonetta is incredibly sexualized. Ridiculously so. And yet, she's in control of her sexuality rather than victimized - so isn't that empowering rather than degrading? Not to mention I'm not uncertain that her design wouldn't also appeal to women who like women, just saying...
The combat mechanics aren't all that different from Devil May Cry, God of War, or Heavenly Sword, being focused on highly stylistic combos and flashy special attacks. So she's just off on that one.
Yes, there are a lot of female character who are absurdly designed, particularly to titillate male gamers - the Soul Calibur series alone has Ivy, Taki, and Sophitia as incredibly fanservice-y, and let's not even get started on the Dead or Alive franchise. And yet, both of those were, at least initially, extremely solid fighting games in terms of gameplay.
When you make over-encompassing statements like that one, you lose credibility, and weaken a discussion that is actually fairly worth having.
I think starting to care about any of this was due to some madness spawned by waking up at 3:30 AM, so I'm going to make a personal choice and do healthy things like exercise, eat a salad, and go back to not caring about GamerGate, because starting to care was a huge mistake.[DOUBLEPOST=1413632807,1413632690][/DOUBLEPOST]
Though I will take offense to comparing Bayonetta's gameplay to God of War and Heavenly Sword, because God of War is a little clunkier, and Heavenly Sword is clunk-city.
That's really it in a nutshell. I've played games worth being the target of this, such as the fighting games you mention. She picked out Bayonetta because those games don't have the strip-advertisement.
Though I will take offense to comparing Bayonetta's gameplay to God of War and Heavenly Sword, because God of War is a little clunkier, and Heavenly Sword is clunk-city.
Her tweet said everything about the design and mechanics, which includes gameplay.
Again, she didn't play the game. At a few points, you fight fiery wheels. That doesn't further her point.
In other news, fighting living room furniture in old JRPGs supports FGM.
...Nope, still not making any sense. Now, if she'd been discussing Manhunt, then yes, because that is explicitly about executions and making snuff movies.
figmentPez
Staff member
There's an even more interesting point to be made there than just "Bayonetta is sexualized", if this post on Tumblr is to be believed. Supposedly the concept of Bayonetta as a sexually empowered woman was made by a woman, but then filtered through the male director (and other designers), making it a mix of empowerment and exploitation. The Tumblr poster uses this to support Sarkeesian's statement, but I find it just reinforces how Sarkeesian's hyperbole undermines her own work. She could have made a strong statement about how difficult it is for women to be empowered because society takes their intentions, runs them through filters, and the message gets twisted. Instead, she just said "everything" was done for men's pleasure, and thus made a sound-bite that riles up people who already support her, but doesn't actually say anything true or of value. She undermines herself, and the female designer who wanted Bayonetta to be a positive icon for women.
Do you...mmm...yeah...go on, what else?
do you even know what the term "snuff" even means?
That is an interesting point. I'd seen the art book in question listed on Amazon. Might be worth looking at, but those are always kind of pricey.
I think a much better example of creepy, exploitative female characters would be Metal Gear Solid. Yahtzee covers that rather nicely in his review of Ground Zeroes, but honestly, can anyone think of a female character in Metal Gear that wasn't at least partially creepy?
The Boss
Chico's sister in PEACE WALKER
Dr. Strangelove (Unless the fact that she's bisexual is a thing)
Mei Ling (she's perfectly normal... YOU are the one who creeps on her in VR Missions)
Sunny
That's about it.
GamerGaters are trying to use Bayonetta as a rallying point and wanted support from its creator. His response:
And when the shitstorm came:
And when the shitstorm came:
GamerGaters are trying to use Bayonetta as a rallying point and wanted support from its creator. His response:
And when the shitstorm came:
Hah... Zero fucks given.
The Boss: with whom Snake had a maternal, mentoral, and sexual relationship; According to Hideo Kojima, The Boss (ザ・ボス Za Bosu?) was created specifically to be a motherly character in order to emphasize the maternity theme that he was going for. This is further reflected in her original design. In it, one of her breasts was exposed. The design also featured a snake tattoo around her chest. This was so that when she fired a gun, it would appear that the snake was laughing. It was based on a legend that says that if someone sees a laughing snake, it means that their life is about to be over.
You're right about Mei Ling, though, and Sunny's like, what, 10?
Except none of that is present in Snake Eater, except the awkward feelings between two people who obviously cared/still care about one another and now have to kill each other. Whatever may have happened in the backstory, Snake doesn't creep on The Boss, she doesn't creep on him, and she's never portrayed exploitatively. All that shit happens to Eva, who's doing it INTENTIONALLY to fuck with Snake. Fuck, The Boss wears normal soldier clothes for the first part and first gen battle suit in the second... both of which are appropriate for the roles she's acting in. I'd also like to mention the tattoo isn't in the game... it's instead turned into a Cesarian scar and it's in -one- scene where she's explaining everything she had to give up to be who she is.
Something like that... even in Metal Gear Rising, where she's a few years older, she's not portrayed exploitively. This is a good thing, because Kojima totally had the main character in Snatcher lusting after a -14 year old-. Yeah, it's LEGAL in Japan but still kind of creepy.
Fixed.
And people wonder why I say he'll be a good fit for Silent Hill. Kojima could potentially make the most unsettling one in the last several games.
https://storify.com/stillgray/matt-binder-nails-gamergate-based-lawyer-mike-cern
Well, I mean, when GamerGate has such good, upstanding citizens like Mike Cernovich, there's no possible way people could look at them in a negative light, right?
It's hilariously ironic that the guy preaches anti-bullying while simultaneously practising bullying tactics.
Well, I mean, when GamerGate has such good, upstanding citizens like Mike Cernovich, there's no possible way people could look at them in a negative light, right?
It's hilariously ironic that the guy preaches anti-bullying while simultaneously practising bullying tactics.
GasBandit
Staff member
FTC:
That's basically what I said, right? No mandatory, "gaming journalism-supported" artificially injected SJ-EduTainment crusades in games?
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Also why it likely will never stop. It's been co-opted on both sides by the worst of the worst.
figmentPez
Staff member
The most important thing to remember is that Gamergate and GamersGate are two different things.
I think the larger issue here is that most gamers are somewhere in the middle of all this. I think that as a natural function of women and minorities being accepted more as equals, the old days of giant titted women and racial and sexuality stereotyped characters seem more and more quaint to gamers. It's kind of a self fixing problem if you just let society (of which gaming culture is a microcosm) adjust with the times.
GamersGate?
GasBandit
Staff member
Wow. That's an unfortunate name right now, I'd think.
It continues to stun me when people give equal blame to the two "sides" when one of them can't even say gamergate on twitter without worrying about being able to sleep in their own bed that night.
The problem is that neither side is actually arguing about the same thing.
The SJW side is talking about the exploitation (which is very real) of women in video games. There's no way you can look at something like, say, Dragon's Crown, and say that exploitation of women doesn't exist in video games.
The gamergate side is talking about truth and integrity in games journalism, which if you look at something like, say, the tight marketing machines that drive review scores, there's no way you can say that there is no bias in gaming journalism.
This is what normal, rational people can see as the issues. They are separate and distinct issues.
The problem that this was all sparked by an issue that involved one person from one group bringing up the issues in another, and now the extremists on both sides have construed both of these issues to be one in the same.
The SJW side is talking about the exploitation (which is very real) of women in video games. There's no way you can look at something like, say, Dragon's Crown, and say that exploitation of women doesn't exist in video games.
The gamergate side is talking about truth and integrity in games journalism, which if you look at something like, say, the tight marketing machines that drive review scores, there's no way you can say that there is no bias in gaming journalism.
This is what normal, rational people can see as the issues. They are separate and distinct issues.
The problem that this was all sparked by an issue that involved one person from one group bringing up the issues in another, and now the extremists on both sides have construed both of these issues to be one in the same.
GasBandit
Staff member
#Gamergate. The new "bloody mary" story. Just in time for halloween. Schpoooookers.