[TV] Netflix's Daredevil (With Spoilers)

Dave · Apr 10, 2015

Okay, I'm on the fifth episode and can I say I'm loving it?

The end of episode four is just holy fucking shit. Fisk finally comes onto the show for read and he's just the biggest badass you can imagine. He fucking brutally kills this Russian guy in the most gruesome way possible.

filmfanatic · Apr 10, 2015

Dave said:
Okay, I'm on the fifth episode and can I say I'm loving it?

The end of episode four is just holy fucking shit. Fisk finally comes onto the show for read and he's just the biggest badass you can imagine. He fucking brutally kills this Russian guy in the most gruesome way possible.

Gotta agree. I'm really liking what they've been doing with this show and Vincent D'Onofrio is great as Wilson Fisk. It's an interesting take on Kingpin, as he seems to have this awkwardness and insecurity to how he carries himself, particular when he's with Vanessa...

...Then we get a reminder of his ruthlessness when he smashes Anatoly's head in until there is no more head to smash. I have to admit, I gasped at Marvel going the distance for that moment and embracing just how brutal the world of Daredevil is.

fade · Apr 10, 2015

I can't tell you how pleased I am that they acknowledged the existence of superhuman powers in the first episode. The whole "let's pretend like the rest of our shared universe doesn't exist" bit is getting old.

Dave · Apr 10, 2015

I'm not sure I like the new Fisk. And it's hard to look at him without thinking of Private Pyle.

fade · Apr 10, 2015

Whoa, the kid's reaction to Jack's death. That was a little too good.

CynicismKills · Apr 11, 2015

Dave said:
I'm not sure I like the new Fisk. And it's hard to look at him without thinking of Private Pyle.

I finished the show at 4am today. Trust me, this Fisk is fucking fantastic.

In fact, this show is so well-casted, well-shot and well-written that I can't even believe it's in the same universe as something like AoS and the Thor movies.

Dave · Apr 12, 2015

Yeah, I just finished it. I am liking this Fisk as well. I really don't think this is an origin story for Daredevil, I think it's also an origin story for the Kingpin. It shows him starting out in business kinda tentative and by the end his doubts and humanity is slowly slipping away until at the very end I don't think there's anything left. I do wish he were more physically powerful than he is in the show. In the comics he's really, really strong - like super strength. But here he's just a man.

But yeah, this series is amazingly good from start to finish. Yes, I think some of the dialogue at times is hokey and cliched, but the characters are 3-D, man. I wish they wouldn't have killed Ulrich off as he's a major player in the comics at times, but I think it moved the story along enough. Great series.

CynicismKills · Apr 12, 2015

Dave said:
Yeah, I just finished it. I am liking this Fisk as well. I really don't think this is an origin story for Daredevil, I think it's also an origin story for the Kingpin. It shows him starting out in business kinda tentative and by the end his doubts and humanity is slowly slipping away until at the very end I don't think there's anything left. I do wish he were more physically powerful than he is in the show. In the comics he's really, really strong - like super strength. But here he's just a man.

But yeah, this series is amazingly good from start to finish. Yes, I think some of the dialogue at times is hokey and cliched, but the characters are 3-D, man. I wish they wouldn't have killed Ulrich off as he's a major player in the comics at times, but I think it moved the story along enough. Great series.

He seemed pretty strong to me, that last fight where he's just kinda tossing DD around like a ragdoll. It's no super strength, but he's by no means a normal guy either. I also enjoyed watching not only his fall to darkness, but Vanessa's as well. That look on her face when he tells her "those responsible will suffer" was chilling.

I was surprised to see Urich die, they really did a great job of leading you to think Karen was going to bite it first.

Frank · Apr 13, 2015

I wonder if we'll get Kingpin (from what I THINK is from Punisher during Garth Ennis' run) that goes to these kinds of vindictive (ridiculous) extremes.

Also, dat corridor scene in episode 2. Yeee

Old Boy

haw! Also, still madly in love with Rosario Dawson.

Dave · Apr 13, 2015

Jesus fucking christ. Yeah I'd say that was evil.

CynicismKills · Apr 13, 2015

I have to admit I was a little sad to see Dawson wasn't in the show much after that first arc with the Russians.

I'm really hoping we get another season, there were so many little easter eggs for other villains (the two biggest I noticed were the cards in the roof sniper's bag - possibly Bullseye - and Stilt Man's legs in Potter's shop). On top of that, Kingpin finally falling to evil for real means we could very well see the kind of things Ennis would write him doing.

filmfanatic · Apr 13, 2015

CynicismKills said:
I have to admit I was a little sad to see Dawson wasn't in the show much after that first arc with the Russians.

I'm really hoping we get another season, there were so many little easter eggs for other villains (the two biggest I noticed were the cards in the roof sniper's bag - possibly Bullseye - and Stilt Man's legs in Potter's shop). On top of that, Kingpin finally falling to evil for real means we could very well see the kind of things Ennis would write him doing.

I hope we get another season as well. In addition to all of the little easter eggs of other villains, there was the mention of Elektra and there's the presence of the Hand. In fact, the show's creators have even said that they want to do something involving the Punisher in another season of Daredevil.

BananaHands · Apr 13, 2015

Buckets, my friends.

I came buckets.

fade · Apr 13, 2015

Dave · Apr 13, 2015

And he's really hurt going in to that fight.

CynicismKills · Apr 13, 2015

filmfanatic said:
I hope we get another season as well. In addition to all of the little easter eggs of other villains, there was the mention of Elektra and there's the presence of the Hand. In fact, the show's creators have even said that they want to do something involving the Punisher in another season of Daredevil.

Yeah, they mention something about Nobu being set up for "what comes next" or thereabouts even though he's very, very dead, and Stick mentions a war here and there which could easily focus on The Hand and the other faction that I can't remember. Beyond that, nearly every major player in Daredevil's continuity, DD included, has belonged to The Hand at some point.

filmfanatic · Apr 13, 2015

CynicismKills said:
Yeah, they mention something about Nobu being set up for "what comes next" or thereabouts even though he's very, very dead, and Stick mentions a war here and there which could easily focus on The Hand and the other faction that I can't remember. Beyond that, nearly every major player in Daredevil's continuity, DD included, has belonged to The Hand at some point.

I'd easily guess that we see the Hand gain more of a presence in the next season (if we get one) of Daredevil.

I have to say, though, I wasn't quite expecting to see some elements to set up Iron Fist. The name of that form of heroin, Steel Serpent, is the supervillain name of Iron Fist's primary rival, Davos. Also, considering that Madame Gao could knock Daredevil on his ass with ease and her home is apparently quite farther than China, odds are she probably hails from the mystical city of K'un-Lun.

BananaHands · Apr 13, 2015

Dave said:
And he's really hurt going in to that fight.

I absolutely love the fights on this show. The baddies get up and continue to fight instead of just being one-shotted - even to a point where you can see some of the guys just writhing on the floor too exhausted or too afraid to get up after being knocked down again. Matt is constantly getting smacked around and you see him having to lean up against the wall to get some composure before getting back into a fighting stance as someone approaches.

It's going to cheapen when Black Widow or Hawkeye fight hydra soldiers in Avengers 2 and they just knock them down right away.

checkeredhat · Apr 13, 2015

Just finished it. Loved it. Loved how real the fights felt. I did feel it was paced a little uneven, but the good things way outweigh that. I don't know much about this side of the marvel universe but from what I've read online, and even in this thread, there were a lot of ties to set up Iron Fist. I was hoping for some kind of end of credits type thing to set up Jessica Jones though. I'm prettypumped for that series just because Kristen Ritter.

On the subject of Rosario Dawson returning for a second season: I suspect we'll see more Night Nurse in the other Netflix series and maybe even in Civil War.

CynicismKills · Apr 13, 2015

BananaHands said:
I absolutely love the fights on this show. The baddies get up and continue to fight instead of just being one-shotted - even to a point where you can see some of the guys just writhing on the floor too exhausted or too afraid to get up after being knocked down again. Matt is constantly getting smacked around and you see him having to lean up against the wall to get some composure before getting back into a fighting stance as someone approaches.

It's going to cheapen when Black Widow or Hawkeye fight hydra soldiers in Avengers 2 and they just knock them down right away.

This is a good point. At least SHIELD has the Icers to fall back on when people get shot, but with how absolutely visceral DD is, watching Hydra goons flop around like Power Ranger thugs is going to look silly.

BananaHands · Apr 14, 2015

CynicismKills said:
This is a good point. At least SHIELD has the Icers to fall back on when people get shot, but with how absolutely visceral DD is, watching Hydra goons flop around like Power Ranger thugs is going to look silly.

AoS could definitely learn a thing or two from this. The May fights are good, but it would definitely benefit from some raw fights like this when it comes to Ward or something.

Also - apparently Agents of SHIELD is getting a spin-off? Deathlok maybe?

BananaHands · Apr 14, 2015

CynicismKills said:
Yeah, they mention something about Nobu being set up for "what comes next" or thereabouts even though he's very, very dead, and Stick mentions a war here and there which could easily focus on The Hand and the other faction that I can't remember. Beyond that, nearly every major player in Daredevil's continuity, DD included, has belonged to The Hand at some point.

I wonder what's going to happen with Leland. Is he dead? Is he going to live in the sewers in fear, eating rats and becoming more like his comic book counterpart? Or is his son Leland Owlsley Jr.?

CynicismKills · Apr 14, 2015

BananaHands said:
I wonder what's going to happen with Leland. Is he dead? Is he going to live in the sewers in fear, eating rats and becoming more like his comic book counterpart? Or is his son Leland Owlsley Jr.?

I'm leaning more to his son being The Owl, especially now that there's the revenge on Kingpin angle to fuel his own takeover of Hell's Kitchen.

Dave · Apr 14, 2015

Spoilered because it's a comic spoiler:

I had no idea Karen Page went on to become a drug-addicted porn star. Frankly, I'm going to be looking forward to that arc if they do it right. /sexistpig

Adam · Apr 14, 2015

Dave said:
Spoilered because it's a comic spoiler:

I had no idea Karen Page went on to become a drug-addicted porn star. Frankly, I'm going to be looking forward to that arc if they do it right. /sexistpig

I think they kinda implied that's where she came from already. Episode 5 I think with her visiting the lawyers office for United?

filmfanatic · Apr 14, 2015

Adam said:
I think they kinda implied that's where she came from already. Episode 5 I think with her visiting the lawyers office for United?

When she met with Ben Urich, he did mention that he dug up some info of her past to learn about her. Odds are Karen has had that as her past, and it wouldn't surprise me if it gets dredged back up in another season.

phil · Apr 14, 2015

loved it! I think this show did a lot right. I loved in the first two end-of-episode fights where you could really see him getting exhausted by the end of it. The 2nd episode, I felt, really showcased this when he would just lean against the wall as the henchmen came to him. They didn't really do this as much later on when he took some truly brutal beatings that, I'll admit, lasted through several episodes but it was still a full recovery outside of an actual hospital. STILL THOUGH! The fact that he didn't just shrug off every punch that got in was cool.

There were a few decisions by the bad guys that didn't really sit right with me. In the episode where it's him and the russian mob boss in the building with the rookie cop tied up, the bad guy cops come in and kill the rookie. I kinda get it, like it's just another thing they can pin on DD but I feel like it was still unnecessary and the part where the guy radios in that the cop is dead before killing him felt a little too "evil for the sake of evil" to me.

Also I just strait up didn't get James Wesley's last scene where he kidnaps Karen for...reasons instead of just killing her.

I'm excited to see what else they do with this and the other netflix/marvel series.

CynicismKills · Apr 14, 2015

phil said:
loved it! I think this show did a lot right. I loved in the first two end-of-episode fights where you could really see him getting exhausted by the end of it. The 2nd episode, I felt, really showcased this when he would just lean against the wall as the henchmen came to him. They didn't really do this as much later on when he took some truly brutal beatings that, I'll admit, lasted through several episodes but it was still a full recovery outside of an actual hospital. STILL THOUGH! The fact that he didn't just shrug off every punch that got in was cool.

There were a few decisions by the bad guys that didn't really sit right with me. In the episode where it's him and the russian mob boss in the building with the rookie cop tied up, the bad guy cops come in and kill the rookie. I kinda get it, like it's just another thing they can pin on DD but I feel like it was still unnecessary and the part where the guy radios in that the cop is dead before killing him felt a little too "evil for the sake of evil" to me.

Also I just strait up didn't get James Wesley's last scene where he kidnaps Karen for...reasons instead of just killing her.

I'm excited to see what else they do with this and the other netflix/marvel series.

I think Wesley was hoping to scare her into working for him and Fisk, not expecting her to have the courage to kill him.

Or, now that I think about it, he says something about not being stupid enough to give her a loaded gun, basically goading her into firing a few into his chest. Maybe he planned to die there, hoping his death would finally set Fisk on the path to beating DD and his people, and in doing so becoming free to mold Hell's Kitchen as he saw fit. He knew after the poisoning incident that Vanessa was capable of being the emotional rock and friend Fisk had, before her, only had in Wesley.

phil · Apr 14, 2015

CynicismKills said:
I think Wesley was hoping to scare her into working for him and Fisk, not expecting her to have the courage to kill him.

Or, now that I think about it, he says something about not being stupid enough to give her a loaded gun, basically goading her into firing a few into his chest. Maybe he planned to die there, hoping his death would finally set Fisk on the path to beating DD and his people, and in doing so becoming free to mold Hell's Kitchen as he saw fit. He knew after the poisoning incident that Vanessa was capable of being the emotional rock and friend Fisk had, before her, only had in Wesley.

I'll have to re-watch it but at the time it felt like a bluff gone bad. Oh no I'll have to see this episode or maybe whole series again! woe is meeeeeeeeee

checkeredhat · Apr 14, 2015

I think Wesley...

A) needed to find out if she had spoken to anyone about what she learned, same reason Fisk questioned Ulrich before killing him, and
B) didn't want to have to kill her if he could help it. I think he was the less ruthless, less violent foil to Fisk. This also explains why he didn't tell Fisk about it and why he didn't bring along any of the armed men. He believed the situation could be diffused without bloodshed, but was prepared to resort to bloodshed if it came to it. And from a story persepctive, that's why he had to go. Fisk was never going to really be Kingpin as long as his best friend was there to keep him on a (very long) leash.

fade · Apr 14, 2015

I am rather hoping they avoid Miller's Karen the way they avoided Miller's Jack.

LittleKagsin · Apr 15, 2015

I feel like I have nothing to really add to this thread that hasn't already been mentioned, but chiming in agreement that it's pretty stellar. The fight scenes!! :heart:

I'm only halfway through (just finished episode 7), but I can tell I'm going to be pretty impatient waiting for season 2.

@Li3n · Apr 15, 2015

You know, i prefer the cartoon version of Fisk, who was abandoned to the cops by his father because he was too fat to climb up a fire escape... it's pretty fucked up without being so typically gritty.

BananaHands · Apr 15, 2015

CynicismKills said:
I'm leaning more to his son being The Owl, especially now that there's the revenge on Kingpin angle to fuel his own takeover of Hell's Kitchen.

Actually I saw somewhere that he mentions his son is named 'Lee'. Leland Owlsley Jr.?

filmfanatic · Apr 15, 2015

BananaHands said:
Actually I saw somewhere that he mentions his son is named 'Lee'. Leland Owlsley Jr.?

Entirely possible. That could be a way to get a version of the Owl more like the comics. Maybe he decides the "costumed individual" route is the path of the future, after Daredevil comes in and makes his impact?