GasBandit
Staff member
Which means we're sure to see him die clutching his own intestines soon
Which means we're sure to see him die clutching his own intestines soon
show Arya is pretty great. Wasn't such a great fan of her in the books. Haven't seen seasons 4 and 5 yet, though.
...Also, am I alone in being a fan of Littlefinger? I mean, he's an evil bastard, but the kind I like as an evil guy. He's the opposite of Tyrion in many ways.
Come into my comfy solar.
He is not even a little bit chaotic. He also tends to stay within the bounds of the law, while manipulating other people into choosing for themselves to perpetuate acts that would fall outside of that boundary. Lawful Evil.
I don't count Lysa, because dat bitch be cray cray, and was definitely going to kill Sansa at some point.
And Lobo always stays within the word of a contract... if not its spirit.
Obeying the law because you don't want to have to deal with the consequences does not make one lawful...
LF is simply trying to advance himself by any means necessary (while being very, very careful not to expose himself), with no regard for any sort or rules or morals...
Varys is the one claiming to try and impose order and shit.
....
Then again, i've always been partial to the B5 interpretation, where the question of chaos is "What do you want?", while order has "Why are you here?"...
I'm sorry, but where in the books is LF ever shown to care about tradition, loyalty, and order?
Like i said, he's most likely neutral evil: http://easydamus.com/neutralevil.html
But to be lawful he actually has to respect the system / it's existence... and he makes quite a point about how he hates it, but will take advantage of it if he can.
...
As an aside, the actual Game of Thrones is being played between him and Varys... everyone else is just a piece, even if they're not pawns.
Yup, my situation too.
GasBandit
Staff member
Really? Your respective girlfriends declared this a bridge too far, but were still watching after Jaime forced himself on Cersei by their dead child's funeral bier?
Hell, they were still watching after Season one Drogo and Dany? I mean, really, that was practically the same situation, shown much more explicitly... only difference was Jason Momoa is hunkilicious I guess.
Hell, they were still watching after Season one Drogo and Dany? I mean, really, that was practically the same situation, shown much more explicitly... only difference was Jason Momoa is hunkilicious I guess.
Yeah, this was the final straw there. She might change her mind later, but as it stands, she was like, "Yeah, I'm done with this."
Drogo and Dany made sense, it established their roles early on. Even Jaime and Cersei, as poorly executed as it was, and it was, was poorly trying to communicate something other than rape. We know Ramsey is a sadist and we know Sansa is the ultimate constant victim. That whole scene was done for nothing but unsurprising shock value and was completely unnecessary.
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GasBandit
Staff member
And this was the natural culmination of everything that Sansa has been up until this point - a pretty puppet whose destiny had always been from day one to be married off for political reasons. The only difference between how Drogo first took the virgin Danaerys and how Roose took the virgin Sansa is Roose made Reek stand there and watch because he knew it would torment the both of them, and he's a monster. Well, that and, as I said, this time it happened off camera.
Books or no, anybody who didn't see this on the way seasons ago obviously forgot what show they were watching.
She read the books so she knew that Cersie and Jamie thing was just them botching it terribly and the showrunners were idiots in how they responded to it. But for this one they took a storyline that she actually liked Sansa learning to play the game and trying to get some happiness and protection for herself and instead of that story of her trying to rebuild some sense of normalcy they took her and had her raped.
She said it early on that if they hurt Sansa in the changes she's done with the show. She was on the fence due to the downturn in quality for her so it's definately easier to step off now than it is to step off last season or even the first season.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, she's entitled to her opinion, and it's her prerogative to watch or not, but I disagree that there's been a downturn in quality in the show. Or did you mean in the books? So far the show's actually been a marked improvement, IMO.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic to you guys' situation, though. There were similar moments when I was reading the books to Pauline, where she decided she didn't want to hear it any more - so I had to put it on hold. Didn't have time to read it for myself back then, because that time was taken up reading something else to her instead.
Well the show has been a marked improvement on the books no doubt about that but compared to other seasons it's not doing so great. I mean a good portion of that is them having to wade through the Bullshit that GRRM left but still the Intrigue hasn't been all that intriguing and I've found the episodes to be a bit of a slog despite the great acting and dialogue.
I'm actually kind of surprised that Littlefinger didn't attempt to teach her to use sex as a weapon. Or something. Then again, I also feel like Littlefinger is so in character and yet so off character in the show at the same time that I can't even...
I really have a hard time believing that book Littlefinger would leave Sansa with ANYONE he didn't already have in his pocket, much less the Boltons, so seeing him doing what he did today/last week has me completely irritated.
I mean, I know Sansa was a virgin and all, but I feel like she would have learned better than to show her fear like that. I guess that the show was just giving us another illusion (aka that Sansa could potentially be more than the perpetual victim) I really had hope after she told off Ramsay's jealous lovetoy.
I really have a hard time believing that book Littlefinger would leave Sansa with ANYONE he didn't already have in his pocket, much less the Boltons, so seeing him doing what he did today/last week has me completely irritated.
I mean, I know Sansa was a virgin and all, but I feel like she would have learned better than to show her fear like that. I guess that the show was just giving us another illusion (aka that Sansa could potentially be more than the perpetual victim) I really had hope after she told off Ramsay's jealous lovetoy.
The review on tor.com summarized my feelings pretty well.
" I feel like I’ve been duped by Benioff & Weiss. They really wanted us to believe this new Sansa was more powerful, smarter, less of a victim. And for a moment when Ramsay’s plaything was helping her in the bath, it seemed like Sansa was showing some teeth at last. I know she pretty much had to consummate her marriage to Ramsay in order to keep things going according to plan, but then why not let her have the upper hand in the situation, let her have a bit more control? (If you’ve ever readJacqueline Carey’s Kushiel’s Dart series, you’d know that which yields isn’t always weak. There are ways to submit and be strong.)"
http://www.tor.com/2015/05/18/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-6-unbowed-unbent-unbroken/
" I feel like I’ve been duped by Benioff & Weiss. They really wanted us to believe this new Sansa was more powerful, smarter, less of a victim. And for a moment when Ramsay’s plaything was helping her in the bath, it seemed like Sansa was showing some teeth at last. I know she pretty much had to consummate her marriage to Ramsay in order to keep things going according to plan, but then why not let her have the upper hand in the situation, let her have a bit more control? (If you’ve ever readJacqueline Carey’s Kushiel’s Dart series, you’d know that which yields isn’t always weak. There are ways to submit and be strong.)"
http://www.tor.com/2015/05/18/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-6-unbowed-unbent-unbroken/
Dave
Staff member
Interestingly enough, Sansa was never at Winterfell at all in the books, which confuses me why they took someone and put them thousands of miles from where they are. Bolton knows that the girl he is raping is not Arya Stark. I'm not sure why they felt they had to do this to Sansa, unless they thought that since Maisie is only 18 and Arya is even younger, that it would have been less appropriate to have her double being raped.
But at least they didn't have Theon joining in.
But at least they didn't have Theon joining in.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, that would have been very, very difficult from a logistical standpoint.
I should be horrified, but I'm just laughing because between some of the shit I've read for last season and this new shit for this season, I'm glad I stopped watching this trashy show in season 3. HBO knows the show's reputation is built on killing and rape, and they want to keep drawing in that audience, so more character deaths, more rape. They know what keeps people watching and push for that. The deviations early in the show were only irksome, but at this point it comes off as an adolescent boy's fanfic.
I hope they kill more characters and throw in more sexual violence involving pre-established characters that wasn't in the books. The more they deviate from the books, the better. Let it be its own thing and I won't have to worry about it spoiling book 6 and 7 if they ever come to be.
I hope they kill more characters and throw in more sexual violence involving pre-established characters that wasn't in the books. The more they deviate from the books, the better. Let it be its own thing and I won't have to worry about it spoiling book 6 and 7 if they ever come to be.
Dave
Staff member
In the book, Reece has Theon "get her ready".
The worst part is that the Sansa storyline totally eclipsed probably the best line in the series (paraphrased):
Slaver 1: Cut off his cock! Dwarf cock fetches a pretty price.
Tyrion: You can't just cut it off! You have to show them the dwarf to prove it!
Slaver 2: They'll know. It'll be a dwarf cock.
Tyrion: Guess again!