[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.
This. Superman is traditionally such a moral compass is because he was raised with the values of good, salt of the earth people who instilled in him the virtues of truth, justice, and the (idealized version) American way - equality, freedom, etc. He was brought up believing that you should always lend a hand to someone in need, stand up for the weak, and to put your abilities to a good purpose. Without that moral grounding - if the Kents had, say, instilled in him paranoid and selfish motives, then we'd have a very different and much more dangerous being.
Basically. Superman is amazing because he's a living god who decides to be benevolent instead of tyrannical (something completely within his power). If he's being benevolent despite being told to be whatever he wants, that's still kind of amazing, but it also makes no fucking sense.
Superman summed up in one panel:
Also I know this is obvious by now, but I'm really not looking forward to having to deal with fans of this franchise again. There's never been a fight between the two that hasn't been horribly contrived to make it seem like Batman has a chance, and then your throw in Man of Steel HOPEman and I'm not really sure why Batman just doesn't wind up dead with his head looking backwards like he's an owl.
Also I know this is obvious by now, but I'm really not looking forward to having to deal with fans of this franchise again. There's never been a fight between the two that hasn't been horribly contrived to make it seem like Batman has a chance, and then your throw in Man of Steel HOPEman and I'm not really sure why Batman just doesn't wind up dead with his head looking backwards like he's an owl.
Superman defaced the moon? What a dick.
At least he finished what he was writing. It's definitely better than CHA
I think there's a bit of gray area between not owing the world a savior and going full maniacal superviallian. I mean, maybe not in a DC movie, where all are beholden to the power of Grimdark (why this isn't already a Marvel character is a crime), but in general, you can teach someone to be a decent person without telling them that they exclusively live to serve others, which is all I heard her say. He doesn't owe them his existence and can live his life on his own terms.[DOUBLEPOST=1436898044,1436898009][/DOUBLEPOST]
This would have made a better comic.
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Staff member
It's probably been done before, but they should have Zod and Faora crack up when Hoperman first shows up. He's all like, "What?!?" and they're all like, "Your shirt!" and he's like, "Only villains would laugh at the Kryptonian symbol for Hope!". Then they pause for a second and laugh again harder. Then he's like "WHAT!?!" and they're like, "Dude! That's the Krytonian symbol for I Love Horse Penis!" or something. I don't know why they'd have a whole symbol for that, but maybe things got really weird on Krypton at one point.
Shhhhhh! Don't tell comic book nerds that a product made for mas s consumption caters to the masses!
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Staff member
Or how about just the fact that only Superman feels the need to wear his last name on his chest?
They could've explained the "hope" thing better if they'd used some of Mark Waid's explanation in Birthright. Which I'm almost certain they cribbed it from without explaining why it's a symbol of hope:
Krypton had experienced a massive civil war long before Kal-El or even Jor-El's time. It was more a symbol of unification. As described:
"At first I thought it was a family crest of some sort - but if it was, it certainly came to mean more than that to these people. Wars were fought over it. Entire cities were built on it. Over the course of time, it became a...a promise. A sign of people fighting to make a better world. A symbol of hope."
Instead, we get a silly, throwaway line that winds up being made fun of. Because Goyer is a terrible, terrible writer.
What I like about Waid's explanation is that the "S" isn't just something Ma & Pa helped him come up with (because there's no connection to his Kryptonian self in it). And it isn't a symbol of the House of El like in the Donner movies, because he's not called The Last Son of the House of El. The "S" represents all of Krypton.
Krypton had experienced a massive civil war long before Kal-El or even Jor-El's time. It was more a symbol of unification. As described:
"At first I thought it was a family crest of some sort - but if it was, it certainly came to mean more than that to these people. Wars were fought over it. Entire cities were built on it. Over the course of time, it became a...a promise. A sign of people fighting to make a better world. A symbol of hope."
Instead, we get a silly, throwaway line that winds up being made fun of. Because Goyer is a terrible, terrible writer.
What I like about Waid's explanation is that the "S" isn't just something Ma & Pa helped him come up with (because there's no connection to his Kryptonian self in it). And it isn't a symbol of the House of El like in the Donner movies, because he's not called The Last Son of the House of El. The "S" represents all of Krypton.
I really like what Byrne's did with it. The S stands for Superman.
That said discussing his costume decisions I really love what Lois & Clark did.
[EDIT] Here's the page from Man of Steel. It's after his first public appearance when he determines that he needs a secret identity, where the papers are already calling him the mysterious Superman.
That said discussing his costume decisions I really love what Lois & Clark did.
[EDIT] Here's the page from Man of Steel. It's after his first public appearance when he determines that he needs a secret identity, where the papers are already calling him the mysterious Superman.
GasBandit
Staff member
The classic lantern jaw and kind of broad face is apparently associated with higher levels of testosterone during development, meaning that guys who are more likely to be large and muscular would have that type of face. With positive upbringing, it's also associated with being a good team player and brave; with negative upbringing it's someone who doesn't feel bound by rules and is more aggressive - a bully, for example. Hence why Superman, Batman, Captain America, etc, all have that classic rugged square-jaw face.
I used to like that explanation, but Waid explains his side very well: "If the 'S' is just something Jonathan Kent cobbled up out of thin air so he could call his son 'Superman,' not only does it have no resonance, it makes no sense. Why would Clark think he needs something like that on his shirt? He's a humble man."
I like that the symbol represents all of Krytpon, but also doubles as the "S" for Superman, where Lois coins the term. Personally, I like mixing it with how Lois coined the name in the Animated Series:
And here I thought it was coincidentally the same as the symbol on the hilt of a sword forged during the big bang.
--Patrick
--Patrick
Yep, they wanted to bring back the idea of him as an orphan, like he was I believe up until post-Crisis.
Pre-crisis the Kents were an old couple in the Superboy stories and dead by the time of Superman. Byrnes kept them alive for Clark's adulthood to reinforce the theme of Clark Kent not Kal El, and because there was no Superboy anymore. Grant Morrison killed them off again 4 years ago for whatever reason. I never heard of any editorial stance on it, and am pretty sure it's been over 15 years since he listened to an editor's story suggestions.
Post Crisis, Pa Kent died of a heart attack during the Death of Superman run. Ma Kent didn't die until much later. I actually liked the storyline because in the aftermath, Superman had to deal with the fact that he wasn't there when Johnathan died, and even if he had been, there would have been nothing he could have done about it. All the power Superman possesses couldn't do anything to save one of the people he loves most.
I know the reason they did it in the New 52 was to Batman him up some more, because their editorial mandate since the Christian Bale movies has been "make everyone Batman."
I know the reason they did it in the New 52 was to Batman him up some more, because their editorial mandate since the Christian Bale movies has been "make everyone Batman."
Pa Kent was resuscitated. He came out of it saying to Ma that he brought their boy back. Which kicked off Reign of the Superman. Then he died for real during Johns' run, in the Brainiac story.
Ma never died.
I must be mixing my storylines up. I remember Johnathan freeing Clark from Blaze in the underworld.
No, you're right, that's the same story. But that all took place in Adventures of Superman #500, and the doctors brought him back to life right at the end of it.
I have come to the realization that Holding out for a Hero makes everything better. Hell, if they put it in the Suicide Squad trailer, I'd be hyped for the movie.