I think Luke will be the goal of the first film. Han helps the young force users find his little buddy.
Star Wars Ep. VII has a name...
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Luke isn't Kylo Ren.
JJ Abrams went on record to say that Kylo Ren isn't even a Sith, he is a skilled fighter under the Supreme Leader of the First Order, which is basically what remains of the Empire (the Empire itself is long gone).
Plus I am pretty sure we already have a picture of the guy, who is played by Adam Driver. JJ Abrams also said that Kylo Ren was not even born till after the events of Episode 6.
JJ Abrams hinted that much of the First Order are basically fanatics who admire the lost Empire, with Darth Vader himself being seen as a Martyr, an almost holy figure, which would go a long way to explain Kylo Ren having such an odd devotion to him and what he stood for as the enforcer of the Empire, influencing everything down to his dark clothes and creepy cosplay mask.
My own little theory, one that I have seen a lot of other people catching onto recently, is that Rey and Kylo Ren are the children of Han and Leia. This would make Darth Vader the grandfather of Kylo Ren, which would push the family connection further, and would keep the overall story about the legacy of the Skywalker family, this time rather then being an internal struggle (Anakin) or one between father and son (Luke and Vader), it will become a conflict between brother and sister (Rey and Kylo). It is likely that Luke, presented as a wanderer, will take up the same role as his mentor, Obi-Wan, and will train Rey (and Finn) so that they can fight the First Order and defeat Kylo Ren.
Plus I am pretty sure we already have a picture of the guy, who is played by Adam Driver. JJ Abrams also said that Kylo Ren was not even born till after the events of Episode 6.
JJ Abrams hinted that much of the First Order are basically fanatics who admire the lost Empire, with Darth Vader himself being seen as a Martyr, an almost holy figure, which would go a long way to explain Kylo Ren having such an odd devotion to him and what he stood for as the enforcer of the Empire, influencing everything down to his dark clothes and creepy cosplay mask.
My own little theory, one that I have seen a lot of other people catching onto recently, is that Rey and Kylo Ren are the children of Han and Leia. This would make Darth Vader the grandfather of Kylo Ren, which would push the family connection further, and would keep the overall story about the legacy of the Skywalker family, this time rather then being an internal struggle (Anakin) or one between father and son (Luke and Vader), it will become a conflict between brother and sister (Rey and Kylo). It is likely that Luke, presented as a wanderer, will take up the same role as his mentor, Obi-Wan, and will train Rey (and Finn) so that they can fight the First Order and defeat Kylo Ren.
Luke isn't Kylo Ren.
JJ Abrams went on record to say that Kylo Ren isn't even a Sith, he is a skilled fighter under the Supreme Leader of the First Order, which is basically what remains of the Empire (the Empire itself is long gone).
Plus I am pretty sure we already have a picture of the guy, who is played by Adam Driver. JJ Abrams also said that Kylo Ren was not even born till after the events of Episode 6.
JJ Abrams hinted that much of the First Order are basically fanatics who admire the lost Empire, with Darth Vader himself being seen as a Martyr, an almost holy figure, which would go a long way to explain Kylo Ren having such an odd devotion to him and what he stood for as the enforcer of the Empire, influencing everything down to his dark clothes and creepy cosplay mask.
My own little theory, one that I have seen a lot of other people catching onto recently, is that Rey and Kylo Ren are the children of Han and Leia. This would make Darth Vader the grandfather of Kylo Ren, which would push the family connection further, and would keep the overall story about the legacy of the Skywalker family, this time rather then being an internal struggle (Anakin) or one between father and son (Luke and Vader), it will become a conflict between brother and sister (Rey and Kylo). It is likely that Luke, presented as a wanderer, will take up the same role as his mentor, Obi-Wan, and will train Rey (and Finn) so that they can fight the First Order and defeat Kylo Ren.
To be fair, Abrams also said Benedict Cumberbatch wasn't Khan
It's a bit different though when you actually have both the actor that plays Luke, Mark Hamil, and another actor playing Kylo Ren, Adam Driver. It would be like having Benedict Cumberbach and then somehow morphing him into Ricardo Montalbán right in the movie, which would be utterly silly. Or have Jedi now learned morphing powers? (We know it's Adam Driver because even in the trailer we can see his dark, poofy hair when he attacks Finn.)
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OK now for the first image on that list.
I even had that card in my
To be fair, that was pretty much just Mark Hamill and Kevin Smith. JJ didn't even say a single word during the conversation, so saying they talked about playing an evil Luke Skywalker is a bit misleading. Though it does make you wonder if Mark's opinion on an evil Luke will be remembered by JJ after all these years.
And now for the trolling promo...
Eh, he's the fleshy counterpart to C-3PO. Bumbling sidekick with quirky mannerisms, is ultimately quite important to the plot but generally shoved aside in favor of humans/heroes. I'm no fan of his, far from it, but his "role" is pretty standard. The humor was a bit too slapstick, perhaps, and too easy and just-slightly-racist, but really, if you look at the OT the humor between C-3Po and R2-D2 isn't always of the very highest order, either. He was more a lightning rod that attracted all of the ire and all of the let-down after TPM came out, and fans had forgotten some of the crappier, more child-friendly parts of the OT. Given the chocie between the Ewoks and the Gungans, I'd really be hard-pressed to call the Gungans the "worse" race. Jar-jar is a C-3PO/Ewok hybrid. Hated by the vocal fans, liked by a lot of people who like the easier humor and don't want to think too much, easy for merchandising (which wasn't fully done with JJ because of the backlash, I think). His role as intended was probably pretty much what it was - the doofus who hands power to Palpatine. His appearances were probably scaled back a bit, though, only to be replaced with one more scene of Anakin proving that given the wrong lines, even Nathalie Portman can't save a romance 
Has anyone read this lengthy, insane, and sincere essay on Jar Jar Binks? Here is the opening snippet/aka introduction:
"Here I will seek to establish that Jar Jar Binks, far from being simply the bumbling idiot he portrays himself as, is in fact a highly skilled force user in terms of martial ability and mind control.
Furthermore, I assert that he was not, as many people assume, just an unwitting political tool manipulated by Palpatine-- rather, he and Palpatine were likely in collaboration from the very beginning, and it's entirely possible that Palpatine was a subordinate underling to Binks throughout both trilogies.
And finally, given the above, I will conclude with an argument as to why I believe it is not only possible, but plausible that Jar Jar will make a profound impact on the upcoming movies, and what his role may be."
"Here I will seek to establish that Jar Jar Binks, far from being simply the bumbling idiot he portrays himself as, is in fact a highly skilled force user in terms of martial ability and mind control.
Furthermore, I assert that he was not, as many people assume, just an unwitting political tool manipulated by Palpatine-- rather, he and Palpatine were likely in collaboration from the very beginning, and it's entirely possible that Palpatine was a subordinate underling to Binks throughout both trilogies.
And finally, given the above, I will conclude with an argument as to why I believe it is not only possible, but plausible that Jar Jar will make a profound impact on the upcoming movies, and what his role may be."
fade
Staff member
I actually liked that essay. It made sense from a Lucas POV.
This is one of those things I bitch about all the time.
It's really a non-issue unless you're from Corusant or something. Considering the low numbers of the Jedi (we're talking maybe a few hundred to a few thousand in an entire galaxy full of TRILLIONS of people) it's unlikely most civilians ever actually met a real Jedi and the few non-clone forces that met them are likely dead by the hands of the Empire or the Trade Federation. Yes, there are probably videos of it but videos can be faked and nothing a Jedi can do is something that couldn't be done with a special effects department in a holovid studio. As such, it's entirely likely that anyone who hasn't actually met one probably thinks that the rumors of their powers are, in fact, just rumors after they got annihilated by mere clone troopers.
The matter of them being public record becomes even murkier when you realize that the Empire controls the records. Why would you believe them if they told you that they killed a bunch of dangerous space wizards who don't exist anymore... except the one working for them who could just be a walking propaganda piece? Remember, no one KNOWS that Palpatine is a Sith except his must trusted associates and it's likely no one knows of Lord Vader as Anakin Skywalker anymore except people who knew him in life. For all most people know, Lord Vader might just have been a psycho in a costume killing people with a weird laser sword as public intimidation.
So really... why WOULD anyone believe in them? If they were so powerful, why did they lose to a bunch of guys with guns?
GasBandit
Staff member
We're not talking civilians here, though, we're talking General Motti, a high ranking Admiral (yes, I know, but again, LUCAS) in the Imperial Navy, tied for second highest ranking officer on the Death Star after Grand Moff Tarkin. You'd think maybe he was a little more well informed.
None of the numbers involved in the Clone Wars make any sense. Basically, at Geonosis, there were around 10,000 Jedi, and 1.8 million clone troopers were deployed. 700,000 clones were killed or wounded, and a significant number of Jedi; hundreds at least. By the time Order 66 was given, 3 millions clones were in service. Those numbers are Word of Lucas, nevermind that they're nowhere near enough to wage a galactic war on hundreds of fronts. But then, large scale conflict was largely unknown - the Trade Federation attack on Naboo was a generally small engagement and that was considered a galactic crisis.
Given that Jedi were used as envoys, diplomats, troubleshooters, and representatives of the Galactic Republic up until Order 66, it's absurd to think that people were unaware of them.
Given that Jedi were used as envoys, diplomats, troubleshooters, and representatives of the Galactic Republic up until Order 66, it's absurd to think that people were unaware of them.
Still doesn't explain how some things can be "common knowledge" and later, not. "I'm Toydarian. Jedi Mind tricks don't work on me". You'd think 20 years later, you know, when the same Toydarians are still alive, they'd still know those mind tricks are real.
The move from "pretty much the Republican answer to the CIA" to "fabled religious order" can certainly happen....But not in 20 years, with races living well in excess of a hundred years. It just makes no sense. Jedi weren't barely known, even if there were few of them. TPM, two Jedi come to negotiate, and everyone is well aware they're Jedi and what that means.
It'd have made more sense if no-one believed in Jedi anymore because they'd died out, not because they're an archaic religion without anything to show for it. Certainly given the fact there are Force-sensitive races who can just plain prove it's real.
The move from "pretty much the Republican answer to the CIA" to "fabled religious order" can certainly happen....But not in 20 years, with races living well in excess of a hundred years. It just makes no sense. Jedi weren't barely known, even if there were few of them. TPM, two Jedi come to negotiate, and everyone is well aware they're Jedi and what that means.
It'd have made more sense if no-one believed in Jedi anymore because they'd died out, not because they're an archaic religion without anything to show for it. Certainly given the fact there are Force-sensitive races who can just plain prove it's real.
Yeah, that's the other thing. There are entire races of force-sensitives - the Miraluka, for example. And all the aboriginal inhabitants of Haruun Kal are force adepts, too.
The equivalent would be finding out someone was, say, a Knight Templar. If you're in the 16th or later centuries, yeah, that would be extremely hard to believe. If it's, say, 1330, well, not so much.
You'd think so but if you look at other Expanded Universe stuff, it's really only the Emperor's Hands (force sensitives) and his Imperial Inquisitors that are actually, 100%, in the know. The Sith have been treating the Imperials like pets and such since back in the Old Republic... the only reason they were more in the know then is because the Sith and Jedi were EVERYWHERE.
And I would, yes. But we have high-ranking people who still think that terrorist vaccines cause climate change, and all that.
--Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
Let's be honest... the explanation that everybody ties themselves into knots to make is really just desperate flailing to cover the fact that Lucas often wrote terrible dialog and couldn't be corrected.
And it's still a better explanation than midichlorians