I thought worshiping Israel (and, by extension, respecting the Jews) was a given for the American mainstream right?
Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats
- Thread starter GasBandit
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A disturbing portion of the Religious Right want to protect Israel because they are hoping it'll trigger the End of Days, causing the Rapture and bringing forth The Second Coming of Jesus Christ. It's not because they actually care about Jews. They just want Armageddon to occur so their faith can not only be affirmed, but vindicated against the non-believers. As such, stirring up shit in the Middle East is pretty much a Holy War by proxy.
Really, if they are including the Jews, it's because they want to stir up shit with the Muslims.
Necronic
Staff member
The current state of their politics is pretty troubling though. This new PM is basically Israels Trump. Dude is flat out unapologetic about *anything* Israel does. And then gets butt hurt as fuck when the international community tries to hold him to any semblance of decency. He plays the holocaust card a little heavy handedly as well.
GasBandit
Staff member
We'd do well to be more attentive to Netanyahu's warnings. Israel's the lightning rod. If it wasn't there to happen to, it'd be happening more here. Frankly, I think Israel's the only ally we can truly 100% count on to be on our side when the shit inevitably hits the fan in the middle east, and you know it damn well is going to hit that fan really really hard.
Well, France might be a bit more on board now, too. But the US truly has no friend more ardent than Israel.
Well, France might be a bit more on board now, too. But the US truly has no friend more ardent than Israel.
Well of course not. No one's changing their Facebook profile picture to the Israeli flag. How would anyone know?
Except maybe Japan, who pretty much needs us to keep China in check, even if the Japanese Conservatives want to re-write their constitution to allow a standing army that can be... "proactive" instead of it's current self defense force. Pretty much no one wants them to have it, given Japan's history of invading their neighbors when they get bored.
Fuck Israel and Bibi.
GasBandit
Staff member
Bullshit. Israel is friendly to one nation only, and that's Israel. Any other allies they have, up to and including the USA, can go fuck themselves in a corner as far as Israel's concerned if they even dare to criticize. If and when the manure becomes air-bound, I fully expect Israel to be the one to drop a nuke on Iran and set the whole thing aflame. Israel post-WWII is very much like Germany post-WWI. They have a seriously messed up national feeling, their entire society is toxic and based on terrible trust and security issues, feeling slighted and attacked and deep-down, still the victim no matter what they may do themselves.
I'm certainly not saying Palestina or the other neighbouring countries are angels or the "good guys", but Israel's gone way off and far beyond anything reasonable to protect themselves. Plus, like the Germans in between the WWs, they still think they didn't get what they deserve and that they really are chosen and will prevail in the end. That's very, very dangerous thinking - which many in the US have been affected with, too, by the way.
GasBandit
Staff member
Palestine forfeited any right to exist when Israel and the US offered them basically everything they wanted on their list at the Camp David Accords including an autonomous Palestinian state, and Arafat walked away because the only term was to acknowledge that Israel had the right to exist.
As was mentioned previously, Israel has been under constant attack, always, since its founding. So, yes. Their natural first priority is to defend themselves. It has to be.
It is time for the so-called Palestinians to be absorbed and assimilated, either peacefully in Israel ( where many are already living peacefully) or in neighboring Arab nations. Of course that would require said Arab nations to stop their practice of refusing Palestinian refugees for the purpose of perpetuating their alleged victimhood and as a source of willing terrorist pawns.
As was mentioned previously, Israel has been under constant attack, always, since its founding. So, yes. Their natural first priority is to defend themselves. It has to be.
It is time for the so-called Palestinians to be absorbed and assimilated, either peacefully in Israel ( where many are already living peacefully) or in neighboring Arab nations. Of course that would require said Arab nations to stop their practice of refusing Palestinian refugees for the purpose of perpetuating their alleged victimhood and as a source of willing terrorist pawns.
you can't just say this and not sound like racist, imperialist scum, fyi, no matter what combination of words in every language ever created comes after "exist", hope this helps
Oh Charlie, you know if he was talking about Israel you wouldn't bat an eye.
Well, no, because I actually believe that Israel has a right to exist. Full stop. I don't think that's really ambiguous.
GasBandit
Staff member
Nations stop existing all the time, just ask The Ottoman Empire or the Confederate States of America. Or the GDR. Note the distinction between the State and the people.
Necronic
Staff member
Dude your argument only goes in my favor. Settlements are a policy of extermination. If Israel actually came out and said that extermination was their policy then at least they would be consistent. But they're suing for peace on one hand while brazenly stealing land on the other. You simply can not have it both ways. The fact is that the actions of the Israeli government (with regards to settlements) more closely mirror your...extreme...take on the situation than anything they've actually said.
GasBandit
Staff member
Hey, I'd like them to just put all their cards on the table as well and say "hey, this is how it's going to be" but you and I both know they've got to play the political game as much as, if not moreso, than anyone. They're in a tough situation where they're damned if they do and damned if they don't, but if they don't at least make noises like they're trying to appease the terrorist sympathizers/backers, then it generates more sympathy and backing for terrorists.
As I now have unexpected guests from out of town during my busiest work week of the year, I'm going to have to recuse myself from political discussions for the rest of the week most likely, as I'm no longer in a reasonable state of mind.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yeah, I'll be getting plenty of that OFFLINE
Did you miss the other conversation in the rant thread? Just buy a coloring book like me and @Squidleybits 
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.Did you miss the other conversation in the rant thread? Just buy a coloring book like me and @Squidleybits
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--Patrick
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Wow! This is powerful!
Dave
Staff member
Hey, thanks Turkey and Russia. Let's give Daesh everything they want. Russia starts to attack and flies over Turkey territory. Turkey then shoots down a Russian fighter and opens fire on a rescue helicopter. Now Obama is in the unenviable position of either agreeing with Russia that this was bad - which I think it was, even if the Russian attacks might have been a bit indiscriminate - or agreeing with Turkey - a NATO ally - against the Russians.
What this is doing is putting the NATO treaty to the test in a very bad time. Russia invading the Ukraine was bad, but we were probably not going to go to war over it. But with Turkey, we either have to intervene somehow or it completely de-nuts the NATO accords. But we don't necessarily think that Turkey is in the right. Of course, neither is Russia, but that's almost a moot point.
Daesh wants us to put boots on the ground in the Middle East. Obama knows this and really, really is trying to avoid it. Then Russia and Turkey start acting like idiots.
And yes, I know that Turkey is siding with some major league bad guys. And I don't know how this affects our options under the Accords.
Every day I'm going more and more isolationist.
What this is doing is putting the NATO treaty to the test in a very bad time. Russia invading the Ukraine was bad, but we were probably not going to go to war over it. But with Turkey, we either have to intervene somehow or it completely de-nuts the NATO accords. But we don't necessarily think that Turkey is in the right. Of course, neither is Russia, but that's almost a moot point.
Daesh wants us to put boots on the ground in the Middle East. Obama knows this and really, really is trying to avoid it. Then Russia and Turkey start acting like idiots.
And yes, I know that Turkey is siding with some major league bad guys. And I don't know how this affects our options under the Accords.
Every day I'm going more and more isolationist.
GasBandit
Staff member
It turns out that the Russians have violated Turkish airspace repeatedly - this was the third time in a matter of weeks - and this particular fighter had received 10 warnings prior to the Turks opening fire. That puts Russia pretty clearly in the wrong in the situation. On top of that, Putin claims the Russians are striking Daesh in Syria but they're actually hitting anti-Assad rebels instead, because Putin is pro-Assad. There's at least three factions in Syria right now: Assad's faction, which is anti-rebel and anti-Daesh; Daesh, which is anti-Assad and anti-rebel and consists mostly of non-Syrian Arabs; and the Syrian rebels, who are anti-Assad and anti-Daesh locals. Russia is backing Assad, NATO is backing the rebels, and the Saudis, Qataris, and Kuwaitis are backing Daesh (allegedly).
Which basically means that the real fight here is between Russia and NATO, again... Putin needs to show the world that NATO can't do it's sole job if he wants to keep up his military actions in Eastern Europe and NATO needs to push him back without starting World War 3 or the alliance falls apart. What a crappy situation.