Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats

There's at least 6 or 7 factions active in Syriah - Al Qaeda is still there, the Kurds are a faction on their own, there's al-Nusra, there are both Islamist and non-religious(ly motivated) "pro-Western" local insurgents/rebels, one can easily make a case that Turkey, while a NATO member, is only following its own course,....

this particular fighter had received 10 warnings prior to the Turks opening fire.
Considering a team of aerodynamics professors has studied their trajectory and said the Turks couldn't have done that, because the plane was only on a "clear trajectory" towards the border for about 10 seconds and in Turkish airspace for about 10 seconds, good luck. They also proved the Russian flight path as given was physically impossible, and that the "warning" recording was fake, so have fun there.
 

Necronic

Staff member
I have a very hard time believing that the Saudis or Kuwaitis would back Daesh.

Also, one of the major problems with using the Kurds as our launching point is that Turkey hates the kurds and does NOT want to see an independent Kurdistan. Good times.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I have a very hard time believing that the Saudis or Kuwaitis would back Daesh.
I can't say as far as the royal family goes, but the Arab on the street (from the polling I've seen), about 50% oppose Daesh, 35% may not necessarily support it but don't want the west to get involved either, and 15% agree with/support Daesh. It's pretty uniform across just about all the Arab nations, and among Syrian refugees, give or take 5%.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Latveria is a legitimate nation in the Marvel universe, and Mr. Fantastic convinced Doom to not be entirely a bad guy for years before he "saved" the world in Secret Wars.

So really, we just have to keep Iran away from Marvel's editorial choices once we get far enough.
Alright, I should have known better than to try and use a Marvel example.

Let me rephrase. That's like saying the Orks could be the Imperium's greatest allies against the Necrons.
 
As long as the West - both Europe and the USA - keep considering Saudi Arabia an ally and sell them ridiculous amounts of weapons for ridiculous amounts of oil, we won't get anywhere. Sadly, political minds seem slow to grasp this.

Iran hasn't been a terrorist breeding ground for years, and certainly not on the scale of SA. Iran may be a geopolitical adversary but isn't actively trying to kill any Westerners for the moment. The Saudi hate preachers are pretty much entirely devoted to convincing Western Muslims to blow themselves up.
 
Alright, I should have known better than to try and use a Marvel example.

Let me rephrase. That's like saying the Orks could be the Imperium's greatest allies against the Necrons.
Some clans of Orks are indeed used as allies against the enemies of the Imperium. Most notably, the Blood Axes, have been, and are, hired as mercenaries in battles against the Imperium's foes.

:troll:
 
Alright, I should have known better than to try and use a Marvel example.

Let me rephrase. That's like saying the Orks could be the Imperium's greatest allies against the Necrons.
The indominable self-regenerating fungus versus the in-universe racial approximation of death/oblivion? Throw in the 'Nids, and that sounds like the perfect plan.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
As long as the West - both Europe and the USA - keep considering Saudi Arabia an ally and sell them ridiculous amounts of weapons for ridiculous amounts of oil, we won't get anywhere. Sadly, political minds seem slow to grasp this.

Iran hasn't been a terrorist breeding ground for years, and certainly not on the scale of SA. Iran may be a geopolitical adversary but isn't actively trying to kill any Westerners for the moment. The Saudi hate preachers are pretty much entirely devoted to convincing Western Muslims to blow themselves up.
Iran still wants Israel dead. They're still indoctrinating their people against the west as a matter of course. They're still killing gays on sight and arresting tourists and charging them with espionage. And yes, they're still funding terrorist groups such as Hamas. Let's not pretend Iran is just some misunderstood beleaguered nation of moderates.
 
Iran still wants Israel dead. They're still indoctrinating their people against the west as a matter of course. They're still killing gays on sight and arresting tourists and charging them with espionage. And yes, they're still funding terrorist groups such as Hamas. Let's not pretend Iran is just some misunderstood beleaguered nation of moderates.
Yet even Iranian I've ever met (and I've met quite a few), have been extremely moderate. Maybe that's a function of meeting them aboard in China, rather than speaking to Iranians within Iran itself though.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Yet even Iranian I've ever met (and I've met quite a few), have been extremely moderate. Maybe that's a function of meeting them aboard in China, rather than speaking to Iranians within Iran itself though.
Hey, Iran almost had a revolution a year or three ago due to the government crackdowns (which it was briefly suggested we support so as to help topple said government, but we didn't and it was quashed). I'm sure there are plenty of moderate Iranian people, but its oppressive government is doing everything it can to marginalize them.
 
Iran still wants Israel dead. They're still indoctrinating their people against the west as a matter of course. They're still killing gays on sight and arresting tourists and charging them with espionage. And yes, they're still funding terrorist groups such as Hamas. Let's not pretend Iran is just some misunderstood beleaguered nation of moderates.
Saudi Arabia still wants Israel dead. They're still indoctrinating their people and Westerners against the west as a matter of course. They're still killing gays on sight and arresting tourists and charging them with espionage. And yes, they're still funding terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda. Let's not pretend Saudi Arabia is just some misunderstood beleaguered nation of moderates.


See the difference? 'cause I don't, really. Iran is still very much a theology and politics go fairly towards the right; their position wrt Israel is about as subtle and neutral as yours is about Palestine. I'm certainly not saying Iran is, geopolitically, a "good guy"... but neither is Saudi Arabia, by a long shot. But one's treated as a Rogue State by the USA, and the other as a "trusted ally" and "valuable partner"...A difference that is far from justified by their actions.
 

Dave

Staff member
This is my brother on Facebook. He votes.

Just watched douche bag, excuse me, John Kerry on Today. I now understand why these idiots need to go away. 99.98% of the citizens of this country know that ISIS is the problem. How in the hell are these so called leaders, including the leader of the idiots in MY White House, believe they can defeat ISIS when they are talking about the other groups like ISIL or DASH. if you don't know what the name of the enemy is, what makes you think you can beat them?
Just another clue as to the disconnection between us and the government.

Come on people it's time to get pissed off and get these uninformed assholes out of way and take our world back.
Guess what party he votes FOR. (Even though he's poor and a carpenter...)
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Saudi Arabia still wants Israel dead. They're still indoctrinating their people and Westerners against the west as a matter of course. They're still killing gays on sight and arresting tourists and charging them with espionage. And yes, they're still funding terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda. Let's not pretend Saudi Arabia is just some misunderstood beleaguered nation of moderates.


See the difference? 'cause I don't, really. Iran is still very much a theology and politics go fairly towards the right; their position wrt Israel is about as subtle and neutral as yours is about Palestine. I'm certainly not saying Iran is, geopolitically, a "good guy"... but neither is Saudi Arabia, by a long shot. But one's treated as a Rogue State by the USA, and the other as a "trusted ally" and "valuable partner"...A difference that is far from justified by their actions.
Well, when you're right, you're right. Saudi Arabia definitely runs counter to our values and our aims in most areas except they DO differ from Iran in one important aspect - they're not chasing nuclear weapons. If not for that, I think we'd probably be a lot less concerned about Iran.
 
The correct response would be to inform him they are all the same thing. Knowledge spread, knowledge gained.
No better to keep others ignorant and marginalized, so you can better justify your own positions as the opposition is sub-human neanderthals.
 

Dave

Staff member
The correct response would be to inform him they are all the same thing. Knowledge spread, knowledge gained.
No response from him after I did. You have to know my brother, though. You know that loud know-it-all that is somehow always wrong yet always doubles down on their bullshit, only more loudly? That's him. Looks like this:



Last time he was in town he was ranting about starting laws the would "keep people off the streets if they didn't work". And by off the streets he meant they should not be allowed to drive except certain times of the day other than rush hour. And he was totally serious. He's a completely self-absorbed narcissist. Ask me sometime about his child support dodging for his five kids. He's quality. (And he hates gay marriage because someone a committed homosexual relationship is lesser than his third marriage.)[DOUBLEPOST=1448909060,1448908936][/DOUBLEPOST]
No better to keep others ignorant and marginalized, so you can better justify your own positions as the opposition is sub-human neanderthals.
Hey look, a response from someone who doesn't know anything about the subject (my brother) or my response!

My actual response (which was summarily ignored) was:

ISIS & ISIL are the same thing depending on translation. DAESH is a name that is given to them in the Middle East and is apparently an Arabic acronym that ISIS/ISIL hates. And I rather think those in the business of foreign relations knows a bit more than you or I.
 
Hey look, a response from someone who doesn't know anything about the subject (my brother) or my response!

My actual response (which was summarily ignored) was:
Silly me, commenting on a post you made based on content and context given.
 
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/11/20/the-saudi-connection-to-terror/

In other words, the Islamic State is not homegrown and self-reliant, but a product and beneficiary of larger forces, essentially a proxy, paramilitary army of Gulf state sheiks. Evidence of broad regional support is abundant even if news outlets like The New York Times have done their best to ignore it. Some of the highlights of this money trail:
–In a 2009 diplomatic memo made public by Wikileaks, then-Secretary of State Hillary Clintonstated that “donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.”
(On Thursday, in a hawkish speech to the Council on Foreign Relations, Clinton, now the frontrunner for the Democratic presidential nomination, focused on her plan for military escalation, including a U.S. invasion of Syria to “impose no-fly zones” and secure what she called a “safe area.” But she added a brief and exasperated reference to the financial reality, saying: “once and for all, the Saudis, the Qataris and others need to stop their citizens from directly funding extremist organizations as well as the schools and mosques around the world that have set too many young people on a path to radicalization.”)
–The Times’s own report two months earlier stating that the C.I.A. was working with the Muslim Brotherhood to channel Turkish-, Saudi- and Qatari-supplied arms to Sunni rebels in Syria.
–Vice President Joe Biden’s remarkable admission at Harvard’s Kennedy School in October 2014 that “the Saudis, the emirates, etc. … were so determined to take down Assad and essentially have a proxy Sunni-Shia war … [that] they poured hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of tons of military weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad – except the people who were being supplied were Al Nusra and Al Qaeda.”
–A Times editorial just last month complaining that Saudis, Qataris and Kuwaitis were continuing to channel donations to Islamic State.
 
I'm curious what these memes might be that we haven't already created ourselves?

Also, I suspect that this secret SA-esque forum is populated solely by alts of JCM.
 
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