Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats

Gruebeard

Gruebeard

Huh. Looking at that makes me want to play it.


(just the screen shot, I'm not actually bothering with the video.)


And in a total side note, in the past, I've considered writing up my DM prep (for dungeon crawls at least) as text based adventures and using that to run the game.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
That kind of illustrates what I often say about Bernie being the only "true believer" on the Democrat ticket, whereas in most areas, there's no practical difference between a D and and R.

Not to say I agree with his platform :p But if we do end up with a Democrat, I'd rather it be Bernie than Hillary.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
If young people - my daughter's agegroup - gets off their ass and votes in the primaries, Bernie has a chance. Otherwise I don't see it. And why he's not getting the black vote is just astounding to me. He's the ONLY candidate that should be getting the black vote based on voting record and actions.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
That kind of illustrates what I often say about Bernie being the only "true believer" on the Democrat ticket, whereas in most areas, there's no practical difference between a D and and R.

Not to say I agree with his platform :p But if we do end up with a Democrat, I'd rather it be Bernie than Hillary.
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And that's sort of the entire reason a lot of Americans support Bernie: his authenticity is beyond reproach. Hillary is simply a career politician at this point and while I don't doubt she has at least SOME liberal beliefs, she's been in the public eye since the 90's and it's made her seem manufactured even when she IS being authentic. She's made of Teflon and it's sort of cutting both ways now.

Dave said:
If young people - my daughter's agegroup - gets off their ass and votes in the primaries, Bernie has a chance. Otherwise I don't see it. And why he's not getting the black vote is just astounding to me. He's the ONLY candidate that should be getting the black vote based on voting record and actions.
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He's still an old white man who doesn't "get" race relations in a post-Obama world. This doesn't mean Bernie's a racist, but it's been clear that he doesn't have a clue how to approach black people on a grounded, personal level and he hasn't exactly been doing great with the Black Lives Matter stuff. Compare this to Hillary, who has an entire team of people telling her what to do.
 
Null

Null

This is pretty much where Bernie won the most recent secret Democrat debate:

SANDERS: Let me give you an example of how corrupt -- how corrupt this system is. Goldman Sachs recently fined $5 billion. Goldman Sachs has given this country two secretaries of treasury, one on the Republicans, one under Democrats.
O'MALLEY: Say it.
SANDERS: The leader of Goldman Sachs is a billionaire who comes to Congress and tells us we should cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
Secretary Clinton -- and you're not the only one, so I don't mean to just point the finger at you, you've received over $600,000 in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs in one year.
I find it very strange that a major financial institution that pays $5 billion in fines for breaking the law, not one of their executives is prosecuted, while kids who smoke marijuana get a jail sentence.
(APPLAUSE)
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GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Trump's main problem in the primary so far has been the "he's not a real conservative" factor. "Moderates" don't even really figure in at this point. Right now it's all about that base, bout that base.

The question is, does Palin still have enough clout to tamp down his history of running as a democrat and only really standing for himself, or has so much time gone by since her defeat that the bloom is now completely off the rose?
 
Null

Null

Huh. I thought Trump's biggest problem was being a brittle, egotistal xenophobic misogynist racist windbag with delusions of grandeur, no self-control, and no redeeming qualities.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Null said:
Huh. I thought Trump's biggest problem was being a brittle, egotistal xenophobic misogynist racist windbag with delusions of grandeur, no self-control, and no redeeming qualities.
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This is politics, little of that matters in elections.

Ok, non-joke reply: When I say "Trump's problem is..." I mean from the perspective of his campaign manager. The obstacles to his election. Not his failings as a person. He's still the frontrunner, though Cruz has gotten so close as to question whether he "really" is in front or not at this point. None of the above seems to make a difference to his supporters, or they don't share your opinion on the matter (or they think the others are even worse).
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Null said:
And that's terrifying.
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Well, take heart that even if Trump were to win the primary, and THEN win the general election and become president, he'd still have to deal with Congress stonewalling his kookier ideas.

Unless, of course, some shortsighted predecessor of his got tired of not getting his way and started throwing executive orders around like they were royal edicts, thus setting precedent for even further presidential overreaches.
 
Null

Null

Yeah, about that. Reagan issued 381 Executive Orders, Bush the 1st 169 (but he was only a 1 term president), Clinton issued 364, Bush the 2nd 291, and as of January 1st, 2016, Barack Obama had issued 227, averaging 33 per year. If he doubles that in his final year in office, he will just barely overtake Dubya for number of orders issued.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Null said:
Yeah, about that. Reagan issued 381 Executive Orders, Bush the 1st 169 (but he was only a 1 term president), Clinton issued 364, Bush the 2nd 291, and as of January 1st, 2016, Barack Obama had issued 227, averaging 33 per year. If he doubles that in his final year in office, he will just barely overtake Dubya for number of orders issued.
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It's not the numbers, it's the content. An executive order to "legalize" 20 million illegal aliens kinda counts more than declaring a national park.
 
Krisken

Krisken

Null said:
Yeah, about that. Reagan issued 381 Executive Orders, Bush the 1st 169 (but he was only a 1 term president), Clinton issued 364, Bush the 2nd 291, and as of January 1st, 2016, Barack Obama had issued 227, averaging 33 per year. If he doubles that in his final year in office, he will just barely overtake Dubya for number of orders issued.
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Forget it. You can do that all day and it won't matter. People remember what they want to when it comes to politics, and no amount of facts will dissuade them.


Edit: Called it.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Krisken said:
Forget it. You can do that all day and it won't matter. People remember what they want to when it comes to politics, and no amount of facts will dissuade them.


Edit: Called it.
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Again, I wasn't commenting on the volume, I was commenting on the scope. Using executive orders like they were royal decrees, IE, circumventing the legislature.

If President Trump only issues one executive order in his entire life, but that order is "Trump is now emperor and dictator for life," it's not really a defense to say "well, he has the fewest executive orders of any president, so get over it."
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
Again, I wasn't commenting on the volume, I was commenting on the scope. Using executive orders like they were royal decrees, IE, circumventing the legislature.

If President Trump only issues one executive order in his entire life, but that order is "Trump is now emperor and dictator for life," it's not really a defense to say "well, he has the fewest executive orders of any president, so get over it."
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Congress can pass legislature undoing an executive order. Yes, it's DIFFICULT, but it would be doable (and unnecessary) in an environment that was willing to perform it's function. The Supreme Court has also ruled some Executive Orders unconstitutional. These are sufficient checks on this Executive privilege. Also, another president can simply revoke the executive order if they prefer... Obama revoked 13233 in 2009. This might be political suicide in a case such as this, but that IS their prerogative.

I'd also like to point out that long reaching executive orders are nothing new. Eisenhower forced schools to desegregate in a time when it wasn't a popular decision and Truman forced the Armed Forces to integrate racially during a time it wasn't popular ether.

Trump couldn't issue such an order; it would never pass constitutional muster and would be undone by the Supreme Court, who have the authority to do such things.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Krisken said:
Like I said, called it. ;)
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No you didn't. You "called" something entirely different - that I would "remember what I want" and no "facts would dissuade me."

Quick, Krisken, name an executive order made by any president *other* than Obama that went to the supreme court.

I'll save you the trouble, it's only happened to two other presidents - Clinton (twice) and FDR (five times).

So Obama's not quite to FDR's level yet (and let's be honest, FDR overreached like a mofo and we let him for the most part because the Great Depression made us desperate for a Kingly hand to guide us), but he's passing Clinton - whose orders were really over more trifling things, like strike breakers and "press one for english."[DOUBLEPOST=1453247828,1453247741][/DOUBLEPOST]
AshburnerX said:
Trump couldn't issue such an order; it would never pass constitutional muster and would be undone by the Supreme Court, who have the authority to do such things.
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Of course he couldn't, it was hyperbole - it was an example meant to illustrate that what you attempt to do with executive orders counts more than how many you issue.
 
Krisken

Krisken

GasBandit said:
Well, if you wanna just be a troll.
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Payback is a bitch. Besides, it's not like I said anything which wasn't true. Your argument was shit. That I didn't try to spout numbers for you and waste my time feels like a win.
MindDetective said:
Not as easy as quoting a few numbers, that's true.
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Exactly. Which is why something as nebulous as 'impact" is remarkably stupid, especially when we can't agree on whether the number of executive actions a president makes matters. Everyone will have a different idea on what counts as impact and the level of impact it has.

But hey, that's how arguments on these issues work here. Everyone has their own idea and come hell or high water no one is going to listen to anyone else when it comes to the issues which actually matter.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Krisken said:
But hey, that's how arguments on these issues work here. Everyone has their own idea and come hell or high water no one is going to listen to anyone else when it comes to the issues which actually matter.
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Yes.
And what these politicians want is to keep getting elected as frequently and for as long as possible.

--Patrick
 
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