Slippery something in those showers, anyway.
[Funny] xHamster blocks all porn in North Carolina.
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...banning-trans-student-from-girls-locker-room/
Transgender women students are already demanding they have access to changing and showering rooms for women, and some court cases are finding in their favor. Why are you calling them idiots?
Since you're correcting people on logic, please note that "slippery slope" is an argument, with both valid and fallacious uses. By saying that a slippery slope argument is necessarily a slipper slope fallacy, you are either begging the question or using a false equivalence (take your pick?).
I, for one, agree that desegregated bathrooms eventually leading to desegregated showers seems logical.
But this isn't even about money. It's about being treated equally. I'm cis so I don't think about it much but I'd imagine if I actually was trans, my gender identity would be on my mind a lot more, and having the government tell you "I don't care that you completely feel like a man/woman. You're wrong" would be a big slap in the face.
I guess I'd rather err on the side of treating people with respect.
Of all the movies over the last 20 years, I would never have pegged Starship Troopers as being the culturally sensitive one
Starship Troopers is a masterpiece
oh..and almost forgot Ally McBeal..also about 20 years ago
[DOUBLEPOST=1460476434,1460476224][/DOUBLEPOST]In all honesty, I think this whole bathroom thing is a minor issue compared to the other stuff in the NC law, and loss of protections based on sexual orientation and identity. But it's the one that people are talking the loudest about.
I've used the women's restroom many times in my life. I've seen women in the men's restroom. IDGAF. It's not a big deal. Being able to be denied service because you're gay, or being able to be fired because of it, is much bigger bullshit.
[DOUBLEPOST=1460476434,1460476224][/DOUBLEPOST]In all honesty, I think this whole bathroom thing is a minor issue compared to the other stuff in the NC law, and loss of protections based on sexual orientation and identity. But it's the one that people are talking the loudest about.
I've used the women's restroom many times in my life. I've seen women in the men's restroom. IDGAF. It's not a big deal. Being able to be denied service because you're gay, or being able to be fired because of it, is much bigger bullshit.
I love the little square on... Rico's? butt.Of all the movies over the last 20 years, I would never have pegged Starship Troopers as being the culturally sensitive one
GasBandit
Staff member
Actually, for it to be a slippery slope, there has to be no connection. Furthermore, there has been an observable trend/pattern in the social justice cause that shows that the goal of the struggle IS the continuation of the struggle itself.
Also, humorously enough, here, the guys use the women's room all the time just because it's a few steps closer.[DOUBLEPOST=1460477257,1460477098][/DOUBLEPOST]
Sometimes a slap in the face is warranted. Why do the rights of the Trans community - again, a fraction of a fraction minority - trump the rights of the Cis?
Commence backtracking 3...2....1..... ;-)
Very personally, while I do believe there absolutely are people whose bodies and minds don't match up and are trans, I also question authorizing such big things as hormonal therapy and such for teens. About everyone has at one time or another felt uncomfortable with their own body during puberty. It's a time of experimentation. It's also a time where people are extremely sensitive to outside influences like being told what a "man" or "woman" should be like. On one hand, parents aren't allowing their children to get their ears pierced or to get a tattoo 'till they're adults, on the other there're parents allowing their children to permanently change their body. Again, like homosexuality, I do not think it's "merely a phase" for a lot of people. I do think it's "merely a phase" for some people - the amount of people who've had one or two homosexual experiments in high school/early college is quite a bit higher than the amount of homosexuals. I'd honestly and seriously say these transitions are probably better off put off 'till after they've gone through puberty. On the other hand, of course, I assume transitioning "works" a lot better when you start hormone treatments during the formative period of the body. I dunno. It's a matter I'm confused about, I'll freely admit. Boys being told often enough they're "not real men" for liking pink toys or wanting to do ballet, may find themselves doubting their own sexuality and be confused about themselves. Does that mean they're "feminine" or "actually a woman"? I don't think so.
I dunno, gender identity politics in high school seem to me to be just another way to make sure people are bullied and pestered for being slightly different. I have no clue how to deal with it properly.
That said, unisex bathrooms aren't exactly new or weird - quite the contrary, separate bathrooms are a fairly new invention. I'm sure we can manage.
Very personally, while I do believe there absolutely are people whose bodies and minds don't match up and are trans, I also question authorizing such big things as hormonal therapy and such for teens. About everyone has at one time or another felt uncomfortable with their own body during puberty. It's a time of experimentation. It's also a time where people are extremely sensitive to outside influences like being told what a "man" or "woman" should be like. On one hand, parents aren't allowing their children to get their ears pierced or to get a tattoo 'till they're adults, on the other there're parents allowing their children to permanently change their body. Again, like homosexuality, I do not think it's "merely a phase" for a lot of people. I do think it's "merely a phase" for some people - the amount of people who've had one or two homosexual experiments in high school/early college is quite a bit higher than the amount of homosexuals. I'd honestly and seriously say these transitions are probably better off put off 'till after they've gone through puberty. On the other hand, of course, I assume transitioning "works" a lot better when you start hormone treatments during the formative period of the body. I dunno. It's a matter I'm confused about, I'll freely admit. Boys being told often enough they're "not real men" for liking pink toys or wanting to do ballet, may find themselves doubting their own sexuality and be confused about themselves. Does that mean they're "feminine" or "actually a woman"? I don't think so.
I dunno, gender identity politics in high school seem to me to be just another way to make sure people are bullied and pestered for being slightly different. I have no clue how to deal with it properly.
That said, unisex bathrooms aren't exactly new or weird - quite the contrary, separate bathrooms are a fairly new invention. I'm sure we can manage.
Not getting into the debate, it just reminded me of this:
Trans people want the existing cis right to use the bathroom that matches one's gender identity extended to them.
To me, this is akin to arguing that consensual white-black miscegenation should've remained illegal because those wishing to marry across racial lines were a very small minority, and their right to marry shouldn't trump the racially pure's rights to a society without mixed marriages.
Or, for extra fun, that bathrooms should've remained segregated because a black woman's right to use a desegregated toilet shouldn't trump a white woman's right to a non-negro-smelling bathroom (bless sci-hub):
Part of the disbelief for me is how good she looks on Supergirl, but again, modern medicine and science, etc
GasBandit
Staff member
But those aren't equivalent things. It's not talking about "desegregating" the genders of bathrooms, it's talking about putting one who is demonstrably, physically NOT into the other because they feel it suits them better. It would be more akin to saying that a "negro" should be allowed to use a whites-only bathroom because they feel they are white, but leave the segregationist system intact.
Which is a different, asinine argument.
She's 51 not 75.
You're right, the situation is worse, because trans people don't even get their own bathrooms
GasBandit
Staff member
Sure they do. And furthermore, unisex bathrooms are even a thing in some places.You're right, the situation is even worse, because trans people don't even get their own bathrooms
I'm personally all for making every bathroom unisex and being done with it, but I know there are others who don't share my views and I'm not arrogant enough to say that my solution is the only one and vilify my opposition. Not that anybody in this argument does that, no sir.
Then the situation is equivalent. [GROUP1] people want to use [GROUP2]-male and [GROUP2]-female bathrooms instead of their own separate but equal (taking you at face value here) facilities.
Bathroom desegregation wasn't about making males and females use the same bathroom, though the fear of black male rape was used to power a slippery slope argument, funnily enough. Google for sources.
E.g.
GasBandit
Staff member
I think you misunderstand. I said "sure they do," not because there are separate trans bathrooms, but because bathrooms are already available for both genders - including the genders trans people actually are.
Like was said earlier, we only segregate by gender because we are raised to do so.
My mom got mad because my daughter said her dad told her about periods for fucks sake. Because "dads shouldn't be talking about that kind of thing with their daughters." The fuck are you smoking woman?!
(I believe she asked her dad why I was complaining about something while in the bathroom, so he just told her)
My mom got mad because my daughter said her dad told her about periods for fucks sake. Because "dads shouldn't be talking about that kind of thing with their daughters." The fuck are you smoking woman?!
(I believe she asked her dad why I was complaining about something while in the bathroom, so he just told her)
(Didn't mean to partially quote you, I was going off of your post as it was when I clicked Reply.)
Unisex bathrooms are far from universal, and thus an unreliable solution. The vast majority of bathroom sets I've encountered in my travel through the U.S. have been male/female (though I've been pleased by how many male GA bathrooms have baby-changing stations).
Yeah, I'm quite glad at how civil this is all being. You're a good sport about having your opinion compared and contrasted to segregation-era ones.
Unisex bathrooms are far from universal, and thus an unreliable solution. The vast majority of bathroom sets I've encountered in my travel through the U.S. have been male/female (though I've been pleased by how many male GA bathrooms have baby-changing stations).
Yeah, I'm quite glad at how civil this is all being. You're a good sport about having your opinion compared and contrasted to segregation-era ones.
Ah.
GasBandit
Staff member
Every single public restroom I stopped in in every airport on my recent trip had a baby changing station in the men's room, too. Two in Texas and one in Colorado.
Well, and one wildly-flung "fucking idiot" accusation and some other veiled implications, but otherwise, yeah.
"average halforumite insults everyone 10 times a day" factoid actualy (sic) just statistical error. average halforumite insults everyone 0 times a day. Insults Charl, who lives in cave & posts over 10,000 each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted.
Well crap. I'm gonna have to cut back my masturbation schedule. That sucks. I'm gonna have to raise my prostitute budget. But it's worth it, I guess, so I don't catch religion.[DOUBLEPOST=1460497614,1460497034][/DOUBLEPOST]Here's my poetry homework Ms @Emrys
Surfing xHamster was a sure way to make me cum
Everyday. Twice even! Sometimes thrice! Such fun!
Then I found God
And oh my Lord!
Now I can't stopping jacking off to pictures of nuns.
(I'm so sorry, @stienman)
(and Dirona)
(and everyone else)
Surfing xHamster was a sure way to make me cum
Everyday. Twice even! Sometimes thrice! Such fun!
Then I found God
And oh my Lord!
Now I can't stopping jacking off to pictures of nuns.
(I'm so sorry, @stienman)
(and Dirona)
(and everyone else)
What about people who are beaten or even killed just for wanting to empty their bladder? I was told a story of a student who was not only severely beaten within an inch of their life, but also urinated on by their attackers.
GasBandit
Staff member
As callous as it sounds, I need to ask for citations on this one.
As for the other side of the coin...
Man Strips In Women’s locker room, Says New Transgender Rules Make It Legal
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter
California Man Dressed as Woman Busted for Videoing in Women’s Bathroom
These are not transgender people, these are predators who would abuse the loophole that is created when you let anyone decide what bathroom they get to use with only themselves as judge.[DOUBLEPOST=1460506366,1460505832][/DOUBLEPOST]
"I'm a trans-ginger. I looked it up. It means I can use the girls' shitter."
I don't have a citation for it, unfortunately. It was a story my sister relayed to me through a friend of hers. Her friend is a transgender professor at a university who also runs a support group. And they had to drive a badly beaten student to the hospital.
And really, those predators would have found a way to do their thing regardless. That's a separate issue from letting transgenders use a washroom.[DOUBLEPOST=1460506524,1460506407][/DOUBLEPOST]
*sigh* And I'm out if you're going to use images like that to mock the issue that my transgender friends are terrified over.As callous as it sounds, I need to ask for citations on this one.
As for the other side of the coin...
Man Strips In Women’s locker room, Says New Transgender Rules Make It Legal
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter
California Man Dressed as Woman Busted for Videoing in Women’s Bathroom
These are not transgender people, these are predators who would abuse the loophole that is created when you let anyone decide what bathroom they get to use with only themselves as judge.[DOUBLEPOST=1460506366,1460505832][/DOUBLEPOST]
"I'm a trans-ginger. I looked it up. It means I can use the girls' shitter."
Well, those seem to be outliers. Certainly not as prevalent as say, deaths from firearms.
And holy shit Gas, you completely missed the point of that South Park episode.
And holy shit Gas, you completely missed the point of that South Park episode.
GasBandit
Staff member
The thing is, that episode wraps everything up nicely in 22 minutes and everybody's happy.
In real life, the Cartmans win.
The difference is now, like that guy in Seattle, they have legal protection to do so. I shouldn't have to point out how much that changes things.
I'm not trying to mock the issue, and I'm not trying to belittle your point. But do you understand where I'm coming from when, in a discussion of this nature, I'm to debate a story you heard from your sister who heard it from her friend? How am I even supposed to address that?
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I don't know. I don't know why I bothered posting in here. I'm not a good debater and I'm not equipped to deal with it. Just forget I said anything.
