[Movies] Captain America: Civil War (spoilers!)
- Thread starter evilmike
- Start date
I'm just trying to avoid them for the next seven days. To that end, please put your spoiler discussions here (and I'll look at this thread a week from now.)
It was the worst movie I have ever seen. Spiderman sounded (and acted) like twelve year old, Ant-man was shoehorned in and completely awkward, and they somehow miraculously made Captain America (the I-Do-Superman-Better-Than-Superman hero), a better stand-in for Hitler than Iron Man was in the comics.
2/10 (extra point for Black Widow fanservice). Would not recommend.
2/10 (extra point for Black Widow fanservice). Would not recommend.
Not sure if serious...?
We just told him he was watching Civil War. Gotta get those Batman v Superman ticket sales somehow.
And I thought I had written it too ridiculous to be real. Civil war will be awesome.
It threw me off too. Everything you wrote is theoretically possible, they did get a younger spider-man, Antman interacted much with the rest of the MCU so he could be integrated poorly, and it wouldn't be the first time a paragon of good hero has been ruined.
It's been released here in Taiwan already. Everything Terrik posted is true.
Spider-Man sounded like a 12 year old boy doing his best Deadpool impression. "*gasp* You have a metal arm? That's like the coolest shit ever, man!" I honestly would not be surprised if it was actually a young Ryan Reynolds in the costume. Ant-Man ends up saving the day in some of the deusest-exest-machinaest bullcrap ever. Two words: Giant Man. More words: Iron Man's armor withstood hits from Mjolnir, you're telling me it gets crushed like an egg from getting stepped on by a twenty-feet-tall Paul Rudd? Oh, and Cap's shocking twist in the end completely betrayed the character from the previous films, as well as his whole comics backstory. There is no fucking way that Captain America is actually Red Skull okay???
Though I will acknowledge that Black Widow's scene, where she seduces Baron Zemo for information, was nice. But she dies afterwards without actually passing on the information to everyone, which means in the context of the storyline, the sex scene was completely pointless, and therefore was only there for fanservice.
And what was with all the off-screen deaths? Did they run out of film or something, so they couldn't actually show us Hawkeye, Vision, Wanda, Black Panther, and Bucky dying? I mean, ok, we saw Natasha's death, and Rhodey's death was a big deal. And Cap, of course, gets his dramatic death scene before he miraculously revives himself and is revealed to be Red Skull. But seriously, so many characters just got a "oh he didn't make it" mention and that's it.
I'm done with the MCU now. This movie is so bad it makes all the previous MCU movies bad by association.
Spider-Man sounded like a 12 year old boy doing his best Deadpool impression. "*gasp* You have a metal arm? That's like the coolest shit ever, man!" I honestly would not be surprised if it was actually a young Ryan Reynolds in the costume. Ant-Man ends up saving the day in some of the deusest-exest-machinaest bullcrap ever. Two words: Giant Man. More words: Iron Man's armor withstood hits from Mjolnir, you're telling me it gets crushed like an egg from getting stepped on by a twenty-feet-tall Paul Rudd? Oh, and Cap's shocking twist in the end completely betrayed the character from the previous films, as well as his whole comics backstory. There is no fucking way that Captain America is actually Red Skull okay???
Though I will acknowledge that Black Widow's scene, where she seduces Baron Zemo for information, was nice. But she dies afterwards without actually passing on the information to everyone, which means in the context of the storyline, the sex scene was completely pointless, and therefore was only there for fanservice.
And what was with all the off-screen deaths? Did they run out of film or something, so they couldn't actually show us Hawkeye, Vision, Wanda, Black Panther, and Bucky dying? I mean, ok, we saw Natasha's death, and Rhodey's death was a big deal. And Cap, of course, gets his dramatic death scene before he miraculously revives himself and is revealed to be Red Skull. But seriously, so many characters just got a "oh he didn't make it" mention and that's it.
I'm done with the MCU now. This movie is so bad it makes all the previous MCU movies bad by association.
Ok, for real this time. Just got back from Civil War. Quite liked it. Spoilers ahoy.
First, I'm both surprised and unsurprised that no one died. At first I was certain that at least a few people were going to die, firstly because of how Civil War in the comics ended with Cap's death, secondly because apparently this was the last movie Chris Evans's contract runs to, and thirdly because the MCU is getting a bit overcrowded so I thought they'd thin out the roster here. Anyway, the closest we get to death is Rhodey getting paralyzed, which probably means War Machine will need to retire for the time being. One thing I liked about the movie was that it never tried to deliberately hint at upcoming deaths. Contrast that to, say, Age of Ultron, in which Hawkeye dying was foreshadowed throughout (and then subverted too). This means that Civil War audiences are constantly kept guessing at whether someone's about to die.
Secondly, I loved the nods the movie had towards the comics. Cap's famous "no, you move" speech makes an appearance. The iconic shot of Cap and Iron Man pushing against each other also shows up. Falcon gets a pet falcon, albeit a mechanical one here.
Thirdly, I liked how throughout all the battles, the hierarchy of strength among the heroes is consistently maintained. There's never a moment of, "Bullshit, there's no way A could've beaten B!" Spider-Man is shown as being much stronger and more durable than Cap and the others. Clint tries to fight Vision and Black Panther hand-to-hand, and both times finds himself completely out of his league. Bucky takes on Romanov, Sharon Carter, Falcon, and a suit-less Stark in succession, and handily wins. There's no ass-pull victory anywhere along the line.
Though I did wonder how is it Black Panther can keep up with Bucky and Cap, both having been enhanced with the super soldier serum, but I suppose this will be explained in his solo film.
Finally, Martin Freeman has a freaking part in this freaking movie!!! My dream of seeing Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch interact in the Dr. Strange movie lives on!!!!!!
First, I'm both surprised and unsurprised that no one died. At first I was certain that at least a few people were going to die, firstly because of how Civil War in the comics ended with Cap's death, secondly because apparently this was the last movie Chris Evans's contract runs to, and thirdly because the MCU is getting a bit overcrowded so I thought they'd thin out the roster here. Anyway, the closest we get to death is Rhodey getting paralyzed, which probably means War Machine will need to retire for the time being. One thing I liked about the movie was that it never tried to deliberately hint at upcoming deaths. Contrast that to, say, Age of Ultron, in which Hawkeye dying was foreshadowed throughout (and then subverted too). This means that Civil War audiences are constantly kept guessing at whether someone's about to die.
Secondly, I loved the nods the movie had towards the comics. Cap's famous "no, you move" speech makes an appearance. The iconic shot of Cap and Iron Man pushing against each other also shows up. Falcon gets a pet falcon, albeit a mechanical one here.
Thirdly, I liked how throughout all the battles, the hierarchy of strength among the heroes is consistently maintained. There's never a moment of, "Bullshit, there's no way A could've beaten B!" Spider-Man is shown as being much stronger and more durable than Cap and the others. Clint tries to fight Vision and Black Panther hand-to-hand, and both times finds himself completely out of his league. Bucky takes on Romanov, Sharon Carter, Falcon, and a suit-less Stark in succession, and handily wins. There's no ass-pull victory anywhere along the line.
Though I did wonder how is it Black Panther can keep up with Bucky and Cap, both having been enhanced with the super soldier serum, but I suppose this will be explained in his solo film.
Finally, Martin Freeman has a freaking part in this freaking movie!!! My dream of seeing Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch interact in the Dr. Strange movie lives on!!!!!!
Black Panther has some mystical shit going on in the comics, doesn't he?
I loved Spider-man. He was well introduced worked great as a secondary character (although it makes me worry a bit about how his solo movie will be). I liked his banter a lot. Also liked many other characters, and the acting was pretty good. And aunt hottie is hot (why?!).
If I had to critizice something, the battle at the airport went on for a bit too much, and at some points I asked myself: 'where is X character?'. Also, I fell that the movie does not have a story with a real beginning and end (in particular, it ends the story of Bucky... but it doesn't). Rather, it's objective is changing the status quo of the MCU, and as such it takes as its starting point aaaall the other movies and at ends pointing to many of the movies to come. Also, people at my cinema laughed way too much :/
EDIT: Oh, and I went in with low expectations because just before I read Terrik's post and took it at face value
I loved Spider-man. He was well introduced worked great as a secondary character (although it makes me worry a bit about how his solo movie will be). I liked his banter a lot. Also liked many other characters, and the acting was pretty good. And aunt hottie is hot (why?!).
If I had to critizice something, the battle at the airport went on for a bit too much, and at some points I asked myself: 'where is X character?'. Also, I fell that the movie does not have a story with a real beginning and end (in particular, it ends the story of Bucky... but it doesn't). Rather, it's objective is changing the status quo of the MCU, and as such it takes as its starting point aaaall the other movies and at ends pointing to many of the movies to come. Also, people at my cinema laughed way too much :/
EDIT: Oh, and I went in with low expectations because just before I read Terrik's post and took it at face value
I have not seen the full movie yet, but I decided to spoil myself by watching some cam footage of the airport fight. I am weak since I likely won't be able to see it for another few weeks.
It's extremely well done. Spider-Man is the best I think I have ever seen him, just nothing but youthful vigor and a playful nonchalance. It actually made me realize how... angsty the past Spider-man movies have been, even the ones with Toby.
This Spider-man is in the middle of a hugely emotional battle for some people, and he has to note how "awesome" Bucky's metal arm is, or have general curiosity about everything around him, including asking Falcon about how his wings are constructed. When taking down Scott Lang (fucking GIANT MAN) he made a comment about "Hey you guys remember that old movie empire strikes back?" making Rhodes ask Tony "Jeeze how young is this guy?", before using his web to wrap up Lang's legs for the knock down blow, ending with a "Wow that is awesome!" thumbs up before getting himself knocked out for the count.
I was also very surprised of the intensity of Black Panther. Where most of the heroes are a little more playful in their banter or fighting (even Bucky, surprisingly), Black Panther is nothing but pure focus. He wants Bucky, and anything in his way is going to move, or he will make them move. I think my favorite part is when he dodges half of Hawkeyes arrows, catching the last two and just letting them explode in his face with barely a flinch. Hawkeye converts his bow into a battle staff and goes "I don't think we met, my name is Clint" to which Panther just says "I don't care" before the fight continues. Ever moment something is not in his way he is making a line for Bucky, even appearing out of nowhere at the end.
I think my only disappointment was Vision. Honestly almost all the heroes had a ton of time fighting each other, but Vision just sort of... hung around. He appears to stop the Cap gang from escaping, then looks like he is joining the fight, but once it happens he only appears again later on to save Black Panther from a bus, bonk Scott in the chest, beam down a control tower, then makes the worst mistake of his so far short life (I don't feel like spoiling that part). At no point do they show him going toe to toe with any other hero in a one-on-one battle (unless you count him bonking Scott). I really would have liked seeing that, even if just a little.
God I want to see this movie. ARG
It's extremely well done. Spider-Man is the best I think I have ever seen him, just nothing but youthful vigor and a playful nonchalance. It actually made me realize how... angsty the past Spider-man movies have been, even the ones with Toby.
This Spider-man is in the middle of a hugely emotional battle for some people, and he has to note how "awesome" Bucky's metal arm is, or have general curiosity about everything around him, including asking Falcon about how his wings are constructed. When taking down Scott Lang (fucking GIANT MAN) he made a comment about "Hey you guys remember that old movie empire strikes back?" making Rhodes ask Tony "Jeeze how young is this guy?", before using his web to wrap up Lang's legs for the knock down blow, ending with a "Wow that is awesome!" thumbs up before getting himself knocked out for the count.
I was also very surprised of the intensity of Black Panther. Where most of the heroes are a little more playful in their banter or fighting (even Bucky, surprisingly), Black Panther is nothing but pure focus. He wants Bucky, and anything in his way is going to move, or he will make them move. I think my favorite part is when he dodges half of Hawkeyes arrows, catching the last two and just letting them explode in his face with barely a flinch. Hawkeye converts his bow into a battle staff and goes "I don't think we met, my name is Clint" to which Panther just says "I don't care" before the fight continues. Ever moment something is not in his way he is making a line for Bucky, even appearing out of nowhere at the end.
I think my only disappointment was Vision. Honestly almost all the heroes had a ton of time fighting each other, but Vision just sort of... hung around. He appears to stop the Cap gang from escaping, then looks like he is joining the fight, but once it happens he only appears again later on to save Black Panther from a bus, bonk Scott in the chest, beam down a control tower, then makes the worst mistake of his so far short life (I don't feel like spoiling that part). At no point do they show him going toe to toe with any other hero in a one-on-one battle (unless you count him bonking Scott). I really would have liked seeing that, even if just a little.
God I want to see this movie. ARG
Regarding Vision, the movie portrays him as being extremely reluctant to get involved in the conflict. Ostensibly, he's on Stark's side, but he only ever uses force against Cap's team as a last resort. If he wanted to, he could single-handedly wipe out everyone on the anti-registration side, with possibly only Wanda giving him some trouble. The thing is, though, he really doesn't want to.
One other comment on spider-man, but I am honestly super happy with his cgi. At no point did I feel he was just a 3d model flailing around, and the extra expressions it allowed with his eyes added so much emotion while in his suit. you can tell when he is surprised or focused and even just light movements when he talks. It adds a whole new dimension to his scenes that was missing in the actual worn suits from the last two versions, probably the only time I will ever give cgi a one up over practical.
Dave
Staff member
Just got back and might I say...wow. Saw it in glorious 3D (once we switched glasses to the correct 3D tech - thanks high school girl working part time!) Loved almost everything about it but I STILL can't stand it when Stan Lee comes in, especially since they've been giving him cutesy lines.
Aunt May bugged me, but Spidey was AWESOME! And please know that there are TWO credit scenes. One right at the beginning and one at the end of the credits. Most people saw the first but not the second.
Oh, and 3 hours! Did not feel like it, though.
Aunt May bugged me, but Spidey was AWESOME! And please know that there are TWO credit scenes. One right at the beginning and one at the end of the credits. Most people saw the first but not the second.
Oh, and 3 hours! Did not feel like it, though.
I liked it, overall but some things kinda bugged me. I'm not 100% sure what Cap's plan was other than to not sign the thing and also Bucky and him be friends again. Like what did they really need Clint and Scott for? Was he making an underground avengers team? Did he think winning a fight with Tony would make the legislation go away? What was his end game? I mean even right now he's just in wakanda with what seems like no plan.
It also kind of bothered me how quickly everything kind of wrapped up? Like tony and Steve almost kill each other but then just walk away....and a week or so later tony gets a phone and a letter with "we still cool though, right?" When honestly it felt like there's just no coming back from any of this.
It also kind of bothered me how quickly everything kind of wrapped up? Like tony and Steve almost kill each other but then just walk away....and a week or so later tony gets a phone and a letter with "we still cool though, right?" When honestly it felt like there's just no coming back from any of this.
Cap's position was that he would use his best judgment to decide when and where to use his powers. When the attack in Vienna happened, he decided to go after Bucky. Once he learned about Zemo's search for the other Winter Soldiers from Bucky, that's where he focused his efforts. His attention was never really on beating Tony and the other supporters of the Accords, though he knew that they would probably never leave him alone. To this end, he recruited Clint, Wanda, and Scott, because he thought he might need help fending off Tony's team, and they could also help him when he reached Hydra's Winter Soldier facility in Siberia.
I thought Aunt May being young in this was a little weird too, but I'm cool with it since Spidey was just great, real show stealer! Also REALLY glad we got to see Giant Man in this, though part of me wishes his costume would've changed like in "Earth's Mightiest Heroes".
ALSO-I find it interesting that Pepper wasn't even IN this film, yet I found the relationship drama between her and Tony infinitely more interesting than whatever they tried to make me believe Clark and Lois had in the latest debacle from Defective Comics Entertainment.
ALSO-I find it interesting that Pepper wasn't even IN this film, yet I found the relationship drama between her and Tony infinitely more interesting than whatever they tried to make me believe Clark and Lois had in the latest debacle from Defective Comics Entertainment.
The main reason for Cap to assemble his own team was because they were going after Zemo, and possibly facing 5 other Winter Soldier. He wasn't interested in fighting Tony, but he wasn't about to surrender either.
Here's a short motivation for each side:
Tony: Overcome by guilt (as we've seen in previous movies too) of civilian casualties, he accepts that there is a need to be governed, to be controlled. By signing the accords, they can still act as a superhero force but within the law.
Steve: Feeling the aftermath of Shield's/Hydra's downfall, he does not trust in politics and government that much anymore. What if they are sent to someplace they don't want to interfere with or forbidden to intervene in something that is unacceptable in their eyes? He feels that they themselves are best equipped to assess the situation and respond accordingly. Plus, the current fight was about his friend, Bucky.
The funny part here is that Tony was originally a loose cannon, playing by his own rules and generally disregarded the authorities, whereas Steve was trained to follow the chain of command due to his military background. i think this bit also reflects the comics where the characters take the opposite stand of what would be expected.
Also, things are not 'cool' between the two at the end of the movie, everything is not back to normal. Cap and his team are still wanted. Each side regrets how things have become, but they still stand by their decision. It's just that Cap sends the letter to let him know that they are not full blown enemies from now on. They are still on the 'same side', despite their different viewpoints and now the law standing in between them. And if there is ever a crisis or problem that Tony can't overcome by himself, they can still count on Cap and his team.
At first I kind of expected them to duke it out, then come back together to face a bigger threat. So the ending felt kinda anti-climactic to me too. But now I get that this more of a turning point in the series and can't wait how it will influence future movies.
Last note, about Spider-Man: I had avoided as much news and trailers before this movie, so I didn't know he would be a young kid or how he would be introduced. As such, the first shock was a bit unpleasant (I mean, why a kid? And his original costume, wow.. And then: what was the motivation for him to be in this movie, other than as a recruit for Tony's team? At least Black Panther is given an actual reason for being there.. And Tony's team isn't exactly lacking firepower..). But during the battle he quickly grew on me, he's still the wise cracking Spidey that I know and love.
Awesome movie.
It's been a week since I saw the movie, so my memory may be hazy, but if I recall correctly, Steve never uses the Hydra/SHIELD situation as a concrete example of why he doesn't like government oversight, right? He never actually says, "Hey, remember when SHIELD was taken over by Hydra? Yeah, that could happen again." That would've been a strong argument for his point of view, so its absence means the movie misses out on a key opportunity to bring people over to Cap's side of the debate. As it is, it feels like Tony's arguments feel more real and more convincing.
Marvel person A: Hey you know how we can use Spider-man now?
Marvel person B: Yeah.
Marvel person A: WELL-what if instead of casting some 24-28 year old, we cast an ACTUAL teenager?
Marvel person B: BRILLIANT!
Seriously, why did it take Hollywood THREE movie franchises to cast an age appropriate Spider-man? Granted there were OTHER problems with Tobey and Garfield's performances, but still.
Marvel person B: Yeah.
Marvel person A: WELL-what if instead of casting some 24-28 year old, we cast an ACTUAL teenager?
Marvel person B: BRILLIANT!
Seriously, why did it take Hollywood THREE movie franchises to cast an age appropriate Spider-man? Granted there were OTHER problems with Tobey and Garfield's performances, but still.
IMHO Tobey was a better Peter, Garfield a better Spiderman.
I think that Tom Holland does a great job, in a short time, of combining the two into a better whole. You get the real feeling that Peter is a science nerd and still new to the whole Spider-Man thing, while also being a real wise-acre to hide the fact that he's nervous and a little scared about everything going on around him.
Agreed on both fronts, I also like how there's a legit transformation from Peter to Spider-man albeit subtle. ALSO-there better be a cross-over with him and Daredevil, that'd be awesome.
FINAL ALSO-I like how Spidey has a REAL reason for joining up with Iron Man in this Civil War in that what Cap was doing was actually both illegal AND morally questionable, and didn't end up revealing his secret identity to the fucking public leading to Aunt May getting shot leading to the most pointless story-line of all TIME! MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE: Only the good parts.
Got back a couple hours ago. Before I get in my comments, I want to say I'm glad this thread was made. We have a main Marvel thread, but it's good to make threads like this for the big movies so we don't have pages of spoiler tags in the main thread. Someone should probably do that when Guardians 2 comes out next year.
Okay! I really enjoyed this. In contrast to Ultron, where I thought the movie was hindered by the desire to move Marvel universe stuff, I felt this movie didn't move the arc of movies much, but was more focused on just being a good movie. I appreciate that it kept the focus on Cap, Bucky, and Tony, all the way to the end, so that it didn't feel so much like Avengers 2.5 outside of the airport battle.
- Crossbones's presence made me think this was going to end like the comics, which I'm sure is why he's even in this at all. Killing him at the beginning was a fun way of telling people who know the comics "haha, you know nothing."
- T'Challa was a strong presence even before the reveal of Black Panther. Playfully mentioning the end of Winter Soldier to Black Widow was a good way to bring him in, and giving him a revenge story sealed the deal. Made me wish his movie was coming out next year instead of 2018, but I'm also excited for ....
- The other newly-introduced, Spider-man ... well, everyone's said what there is to say. He's chatty, he's awestruck, he has skills. I knew they were casting a kid, and I'm so glad. He has the right demeanor. I love the little "I have to impress Mr. Stark" bit, and when fighting Cap "that shield does NOT obey the laws of physics!" He was definitely a scene stealer and I'm looking forward to Homecoming next year based on his time in Civil War.
- Fucking General Ross. Excuse me, Secretary Ross. When I saw that stupid undersea prison, I knew he had to have blueballs over wishing he could put Bruce Banner in there and had to settle for a chunk of the Avengers. "Do you know where Thor or Banner are? Or just Banner. Anyone know where Banner is? Come on, I'd just ... I'd really like to know where Banner is. That'd really make me happy." Fuck, anyone could've gotten out of their cell if they'd known where Ross could find the Hulk. I've always hated that guy.
- One gripe I have is how quickly Scott Lang jumped on-board with Cap's side, considering they even warn him he'll be a criminal again if he helped them. I know he thought they were after assassins, but still, considering how much he wanted to be a part of his daughter's life in Ant-Man, it felt strange that he'd just throw in so quickly.
- Speaking of the five assassins/the rest of the Winter Soldier six-pack, I was kind of dreading a lame duck climax. Five no-names with Bucky's abilities did not sound like something worth giving a shit about. But it made good bait, it worked, and the Russo brothers proved themselves, because the reveal of Zemo's plan, and the results, was excellent. I really thought someone was going to die there. The good thing for Cap/Bucky is that while their abilities are part of them, they just needed to disable Tony's suit. It was a dramatic climax and you could feel everything they were going through. The scene with T'Challa and Zemo was solid; I really loved that quiet, intense moment. All of this being the work of one man's revenge, a man without an agency behind him, no superpowers, no super-tech, just as he said, his experience and determination, just felt right, the kind of tone you'd expect out of a non-superhero movie.
- I thought the end with Tony was fine. He had time to cool off and accept what Steve said, that Bucky wasn't in control as the Winter Soldier, which Tony already knew, but considering the video he'd just watched--I mean, he's only human. Maybe he could never forgive Bucky, but he could forgive Cap, even if they can't be friends anymore. Plus, fuck General Ross. He can stay on hold.
I was pleasantly surprised with the way things played out in the end. The movie didn't feel bloated like I was worried it would and I'm confident the Russo brothers are going to knock it out of the park with Avengers 3 and 4.
Okay! I really enjoyed this. In contrast to Ultron, where I thought the movie was hindered by the desire to move Marvel universe stuff, I felt this movie didn't move the arc of movies much, but was more focused on just being a good movie. I appreciate that it kept the focus on Cap, Bucky, and Tony, all the way to the end, so that it didn't feel so much like Avengers 2.5 outside of the airport battle.
- Crossbones's presence made me think this was going to end like the comics, which I'm sure is why he's even in this at all. Killing him at the beginning was a fun way of telling people who know the comics "haha, you know nothing."
- T'Challa was a strong presence even before the reveal of Black Panther. Playfully mentioning the end of Winter Soldier to Black Widow was a good way to bring him in, and giving him a revenge story sealed the deal. Made me wish his movie was coming out next year instead of 2018, but I'm also excited for ....
- The other newly-introduced, Spider-man ... well, everyone's said what there is to say. He's chatty, he's awestruck, he has skills. I knew they were casting a kid, and I'm so glad. He has the right demeanor. I love the little "I have to impress Mr. Stark" bit, and when fighting Cap "that shield does NOT obey the laws of physics!" He was definitely a scene stealer and I'm looking forward to Homecoming next year based on his time in Civil War.
- Fucking General Ross. Excuse me, Secretary Ross. When I saw that stupid undersea prison, I knew he had to have blueballs over wishing he could put Bruce Banner in there and had to settle for a chunk of the Avengers. "Do you know where Thor or Banner are? Or just Banner. Anyone know where Banner is? Come on, I'd just ... I'd really like to know where Banner is. That'd really make me happy." Fuck, anyone could've gotten out of their cell if they'd known where Ross could find the Hulk. I've always hated that guy.
- One gripe I have is how quickly Scott Lang jumped on-board with Cap's side, considering they even warn him he'll be a criminal again if he helped them. I know he thought they were after assassins, but still, considering how much he wanted to be a part of his daughter's life in Ant-Man, it felt strange that he'd just throw in so quickly.
- Speaking of the five assassins/the rest of the Winter Soldier six-pack, I was kind of dreading a lame duck climax. Five no-names with Bucky's abilities did not sound like something worth giving a shit about. But it made good bait, it worked, and the Russo brothers proved themselves, because the reveal of Zemo's plan, and the results, was excellent. I really thought someone was going to die there. The good thing for Cap/Bucky is that while their abilities are part of them, they just needed to disable Tony's suit. It was a dramatic climax and you could feel everything they were going through. The scene with T'Challa and Zemo was solid; I really loved that quiet, intense moment. All of this being the work of one man's revenge, a man without an agency behind him, no superpowers, no super-tech, just as he said, his experience and determination, just felt right, the kind of tone you'd expect out of a non-superhero movie.
- I thought the end with Tony was fine. He had time to cool off and accept what Steve said, that Bucky wasn't in control as the Winter Soldier, which Tony already knew, but considering the video he'd just watched--I mean, he's only human. Maybe he could never forgive Bucky, but he could forgive Cap, even if they can't be friends anymore. Plus, fuck General Ross. He can stay on hold.
I was pleasantly surprised with the way things played out in the end. The movie didn't feel bloated like I was worried it would and I'm confident the Russo brothers are going to knock it out of the park with Avengers 3 and 4.
I thoroughly enjoyed it and thought it blew Batman vs. Superman out of the water.
Most of what I liked has already been said. But I do have one gripe. And it was the same thing I complained about in Winter Soldier. Stop with the shaky cam already. It diminishes a movie and makes it look cheap. I get it. There's action. No, I don't want to feel like I'm part of the action. I just want to be able to see what's going on.
Most of what I liked has already been said. But I do have one gripe. And it was the same thing I complained about in Winter Soldier. Stop with the shaky cam already. It diminishes a movie and makes it look cheap. I get it. There's action. No, I don't want to feel like I'm part of the action. I just want to be able to see what's going on.
Some stuff I meant to mention but forgot (this is a packed movie):
- The political stuff reminded me of issues going on in BvS, except done well. There's even a bomb framing, but it does involve a jar of urine, and the person being framed would actually do something like that to assassinate someone. It's also interesting that both movies address a city-wide disaster, though in that case it makes more sense in BvS, because really if the Avengers had ignored saving people, they could've stopped Ultron earlier and blown up the city before it got too high in the atmosphere. Instead Cap made rescue a priority and didn't want to destroy the would-be meteor until the civilians were cleared. That Hulk footage was pretty damning though from the first Avengers movie, since more controlled attacks against the Chitari were working, so Hulk going on a rampage would lead to more unnecessary deaths. But still killed fewer people than Superman in Man of Steel, and Ross really just included that because, like I said, he's got a hard-on for Hulk-hunting.
- I appreciate that Black Widow backed up Cap at the last minute of the airport fight. That made more sense for her, especially since you could see her leaning that way earlier, but sticking with Tony because she wanted the world to trust the team.
- I know it's brought up in the movie that Vision doesn't fully understand what he is, but others in the movie understand even less and it bugged me. Particularly Tony. He treats Vision like he's going to always be on Tony's side, which is really asinine, like Tony has learned nothing from what happened with Ultron. This is not Jarvis personified. Near the end when Vision is sitting alone at the chess board, rotating one piece in his hand--you can't leave a mind like that to stew in isolation. I almost think that if Cap hadn't played prison break at the end, Vision would have. This is not an entity that thinks as highly of Tony Stark as Tony Stark thinks of himself.
- The political stuff reminded me of issues going on in BvS, except done well. There's even a bomb framing, but it does involve a jar of urine, and the person being framed would actually do something like that to assassinate someone. It's also interesting that both movies address a city-wide disaster, though in that case it makes more sense in BvS, because really if the Avengers had ignored saving people, they could've stopped Ultron earlier and blown up the city before it got too high in the atmosphere. Instead Cap made rescue a priority and didn't want to destroy the would-be meteor until the civilians were cleared. That Hulk footage was pretty damning though from the first Avengers movie, since more controlled attacks against the Chitari were working, so Hulk going on a rampage would lead to more unnecessary deaths. But still killed fewer people than Superman in Man of Steel, and Ross really just included that because, like I said, he's got a hard-on for Hulk-hunting.
- I appreciate that Black Widow backed up Cap at the last minute of the airport fight. That made more sense for her, especially since you could see her leaning that way earlier, but sticking with Tony because she wanted the world to trust the team.
- I know it's brought up in the movie that Vision doesn't fully understand what he is, but others in the movie understand even less and it bugged me. Particularly Tony. He treats Vision like he's going to always be on Tony's side, which is really asinine, like Tony has learned nothing from what happened with Ultron. This is not Jarvis personified. Near the end when Vision is sitting alone at the chess board, rotating one piece in his hand--you can't leave a mind like that to stew in isolation. I almost think that if Cap hadn't played prison break at the end, Vision would have. This is not an entity that thinks as highly of Tony Stark as Tony Stark thinks of himself.
The problem here is that it is a little harder to infiltrate 113 or so (how many countries exactly signed the accords?) governments, and if an organisation manages thát, it's pretty much game over anyway. Plus there would have to be some kind of a gut feeling or certainty for this to happen in the first place to distrust almost all the governments of the world.
The simpler reason is what Cap said: what if they send us to a situation that we don't want? Or if we're forbidden to intervene where help is needed? etc.
This movie is a disaster at the us box office, it had a smaller opening day than Batman v. Superman 
I wish this was just a joke, but there are people posting that as a critique of Civil War's performance. Civil War still had a bigger weekend, which is surprising considering the name recognizability for average Joe on Batman and Superman. I expected BvS to keep on top of it in that.This movie is a disaster at the us box office, it had a smaller opening day than Batman v. Superman
GasBandit
Staff member
Saw it today. Ditto to Ironbrig's "shaky-cam" action sequences gripe. Especially just when it's showing someone driving a car. We get it, he's driving and trying to drive faster, you don't have to have a cameraman with palsy to communicate that.
That was really my only gripe though. Great movie. Good stuff.
Although, can someone explain the "orange slices" thing when Scott Lang un-giants?
That was really my only gripe though. Great movie. Good stuff.
Although, can someone explain the "orange slices" thing when Scott Lang un-giants?
I figured it was a reference to orange slices being served at halftime at kid soccer games.
I didn't understand Stark's claim that the Avengers need to be held accountable for the damage. Yes, they should answer for their actions. But wouldn't an oversight committee be the ones accountable? "They sent us to this area to do what we do and 1000 civilians died. We were just following orders." When a sports team under-performs, you usually fire the coach.
I don't think sport analogies are the right kind here.. If a soldier in a battlefield loses control and kills civilians, do you drag him to court-martial or his CO (or even the general/government that issued the mission) that sent him there?
If you agree with Tony's claim that they should answer for their actions, then who should they answer to, if not the collective governments of the world? That's the whole point of the committee, a cooperation of all those countries that basically represent the world.
If you agree with Tony's claim that they should answer for their actions, then who should they answer to, if not the collective governments of the world? That's the whole point of the committee, a cooperation of all those countries that basically represent the world.