If I hadn't read a review saying that, I might have noticed less....so, I guess you are already in the know and won't be able to not notice. For me I think that it was more the constancy of it. There are stretches of the film where it hops from one song to the next without taking a breath.
[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.
Wife and I got back a couple hours ago, but I had chores to do. I haven't any reviews, but here's mine:
It's not awful. The first half-hour is a sloppy mess, but after that it starts to pick up. Will Smith rescues several scenes from being terrible. The movie hits a high, then starts to get bad, bad, bad, and then gets a lot better at the bottom of the second act, which made me think it was going to be good the rest of the way, but then that wasn't true. The bad stuff didn't ruin the good stuff, but whether you like the movie or not, it's a really dumb movie. It's not a good movie, but I didn't have a bad time.
Will Smith and Viola Davis are the highlights. Will Smith as Deadshot keeps the movie grounded and human at points where it's ready to break apart. Viola Davis captures Amanda Waller near-perfectly (I'll save the gripe for spoilers, but it's a script issue, not a performance issue).
Jared Leto is absolutely terrible. I had to look away a couple times, not out of the sheer horror/audacity that David Ayer probably thought it would cause, but out of second-hand embarrassment. His performance was dreadful, pacing around people and snarling. He acted like he was in a werewolf movie. And I think 20 minutes is a generous estimate. Actual screentime, I would guess 7 minutes sprinkled throughout the movie. You could've cut the Joker out entirely, but I'll get into why in spoilers.
Which I'll do now!
In all, if you're on the fence about seeing it, you're probably fine skipping it. If you were already planning to see it, I have no intention of dissuasion. 26% on Rotten Tomatoes feels a bit low, but saying it should be higher would mean saying some reviewers should like it when they clearly didn't, and at the end of the day it's not worth defending a film with pretty sloppy pacing, directing, and writing. But again, I didn't have a bad time.
It's not awful. The first half-hour is a sloppy mess, but after that it starts to pick up. Will Smith rescues several scenes from being terrible. The movie hits a high, then starts to get bad, bad, bad, and then gets a lot better at the bottom of the second act, which made me think it was going to be good the rest of the way, but then that wasn't true. The bad stuff didn't ruin the good stuff, but whether you like the movie or not, it's a really dumb movie. It's not a good movie, but I didn't have a bad time.
Will Smith and Viola Davis are the highlights. Will Smith as Deadshot keeps the movie grounded and human at points where it's ready to break apart. Viola Davis captures Amanda Waller near-perfectly (I'll save the gripe for spoilers, but it's a script issue, not a performance issue).
Jared Leto is absolutely terrible. I had to look away a couple times, not out of the sheer horror/audacity that David Ayer probably thought it would cause, but out of second-hand embarrassment. His performance was dreadful, pacing around people and snarling. He acted like he was in a werewolf movie. And I think 20 minutes is a generous estimate. Actual screentime, I would guess 7 minutes sprinkled throughout the movie. You could've cut the Joker out entirely, but I'll get into why in spoilers.
Which I'll do now!
There are bits with a Joker phone that feel spliced into Harley scenes. Then there are flashbacks. Then there are a couple side scenes. There is ONE scene during the movie where the Joker interacts with the main characters. He rescues Harley, then his chopper gets blown up, and Harley falls back to the street. So she's separated from the squad, then reunites with them, and that could've been cut from the movie without notice. Joker shows up again at the end, but that could be cut too. Joker could be cut from this movie entirely and it would've only been an improvement.
Bar scene is the best scene in the movie. My favorite cameo was the Flash, not Batman.
Apparently magic spells can be stopped by explosives. ??? Okaaaay. The climax was really dumb, needless to say.
Amanda Waller's OOC moment was that she shoots her entire support team because they "weren't cleared for this." That is not how that kind of situation is handled, and not the way Waller would handle it, but whatever, it doesn't ruin an otherwise solid part of a very messy movie.
Bar scene is the best scene in the movie. My favorite cameo was the Flash, not Batman.
Apparently magic spells can be stopped by explosives. ??? Okaaaay. The climax was really dumb, needless to say.
Amanda Waller's OOC moment was that she shoots her entire support team because they "weren't cleared for this." That is not how that kind of situation is handled, and not the way Waller would handle it, but whatever, it doesn't ruin an otherwise solid part of a very messy movie.
In all, if you're on the fence about seeing it, you're probably fine skipping it. If you were already planning to see it, I have no intention of dissuasion. 26% on Rotten Tomatoes feels a bit low, but saying it should be higher would mean saying some reviewers should like it when they clearly didn't, and at the end of the day it's not worth defending a film with pretty sloppy pacing, directing, and writing. But again, I didn't have a bad time.
I thought it was better than it had a right to be. It was not Casablanca, but it was really fun. Margo carried the role well. I think the problem was with the writing.
Definitely the writing. I wanted to blame the directing for stupid hyper-sexualizing moments, except the camera never focused on any of that (unlike a Michael Bay movie would), so it really came down to the script. I think she did fine with what she was given.
Now that I've seen a couple reviews, I think one put it best in that it was enjoyable in a B-movie way. Doubtful that's what WB wanted, but that's better than it being an unenjoyable movie.
Far better than BvS. But dammit, comic book movies should be B-Movie fun with A-list budgets...
$135 million domestic, $132 foreign, highest August opening weekend.
Now, BvS had high numbers too, but I think what's going to make the difference on the studio level is that even though this was a below average movie and got slammed by critics, people didn't come away depressed.
So the lesson they may learn is, you can make mistakes, but don't make your audience miserable. Still, I'd like to see better caliber movies out of the DCEU.
Now, BvS had high numbers too, but I think what's going to make the difference on the studio level is that even though this was a below average movie and got slammed by critics, people didn't come away depressed.
So the lesson they may learn is, you can make mistakes, but don't make your audience miserable. Still, I'd like to see better caliber movies out of the DCEU.
I'm not sure what the takeaway will be. It's yet another middling result for the DCEU. It's a strong opening which started to soften immediately, similar to BvS. Even though it recovered on Sunday, the Saturday hold was actually worse for the Squad than it was for BvS. If I were to guess, I would not expect the movie to break $300 million domestic or $600 million total box office. It's still close to the break even point and should be an "okay" result -- unless you are a studio exec wondering why your movie couldn't beat Guardians of the Galaxy or Deadpool. And given the last "just okay" result for the DCEU prompted the studio to edit this movie by throwing the script into a wood chipper, I fear for Wonder Woman and Justice League.
I'm being optimistic because Charlie didn't like my earlier WB fanfic, so I'm trying a new direction.
We'll see how it does the rest of August. It being $5 million below the estimate seems like nitpicking for a movie of characters that a lot of people have never heard of. That said, word of mouth is a big deal and WB cares about that, and the word of mouth aside from DCEU fanatics is--well, I'm being as positive as it gets, because a lot of people really just didn't like this movie.
As far as script in the wood chipper, once you give a director free reign, their finished film is too late to meddle with that much. I think Justice League will be spared because they've got eyes on it already, but we'll see with Wonder Woman, whether it gets a lot of behind-the-scenes tampering. I don't see that director as someone who will want to play ball like Ayer though.
His hands speak fluent Italian!
I hope everyone rating my review as Informative is only doing so because I Informed them I had chores to do on Saturday.
Also, rumor has it Man of Steel 2 (real title pending) is being put into pre-production.
Also, rumor has it Man of Steel 2 (real title pending) is being put into pre-production.
The concept of the Suicide Squad works, but only in the light of what a corrupt, manipulating government would do. It's the only reasonable response to the question "Why does the government keep these people alive if they keep escaping and murdering people for shits and giggles?" because any rational government would have executed them all by now. I mean... we're willing to execute Saddam Hussein (the legitimate ruler of a country) for his crimes against his own people, but we're not willing to do the same to a known terrorist like The Joker?
But that doesn't make an interesting story by itself. The strength of the Suicide Squad has always been the inter relationships of the characters and... it kind of falls flat here. And you have to be willing to rout for the villain and that's hard to do when they aren't interesting.
The bar scene gets the character interaction. It's just that it's too late in the movie, and it's the only scene to do it.
Less successful were climax lines like:
"I lost one family, I'm not gonna lose another" and "I'd join you, but you messed with my friends!"
Failing at what they were going for--but I was laughing. It really is just a bad movie in the right ways. You can laugh at the stuff they want you to laugh at, and then laugh at the stuff that's supposed to be serious or touching because it's so inept. The only stuff I'd get irritated with was in the first half hour ("oh Harley, you so sexy but you so crazy" Ugh ... and then the song scene, song scene, song scene, like a string of music videos), and I wonder if that's what put a lot of critics in a foul mood. When I was in the theater, I kind of just chopped the opening scenes off with my brain, because after the intros they pretty much start the movie over with the "what if Superman was an evil dude" scene, and from there it's better.
We really need a Flash movie. The cold open is his Rogues Gallery showing up in the back of a bar to play cards and acting like a bunch of old friends. Then some idiot causes a ruckus in the front and Captain Cold just ices the dude before going back to the game. Fuck, we could probably get Mark Hamill to be the Trickster again!
I think they're going to avoid any cross-casting with the TV shows so there won't be any confusing the fun TV universe with the gritty movie universe. That said, there's no reason they couldn't all exist since the show has already established parallel universes. I love that fucking show. Can't wait to check out Supergirl once it hits Netflix.
Also, that cold open was a Justice League Unlimited episode, wasn't it? "We're the hardest guys in Central City" and then they all order soft drinks and milk.
Love it.
James, you're off your meds aren't you?I think they're going to avoid any cross-casting with the TV shows so there won't be any confusing the fun TV universe with the gritty movie universe. That said, there's no reason they couldn't all exist since the show has already established parallel universes. I love that fucking show. Can't wait to check out Supergirl once it hits Netflix.
Also, that cold open was a Justice League Unlimited episode, wasn't it? "We're the hardest guys in Central City" and then they all order soft drinks and milk.
Dude, as soon as you're finished your drink, turn yourself in.
"Got me again Flash!"
If anyone needed a drink that episode, it was Orion.
Never dwelled on the politics of it really, just the composition of the team. You have a guy with a gun, a guy who throughs boomerangs, a girl with a bat, a girl with a sword and a physchopath. They don't get along and all have separate agendas. How is this better than Seal Team Six?
Replace them with super powered folks and my misgivings go away.
Why did you list Harley twice?
This is a problem of modern suicide squad, and the movie itself. The original run was more nuanced, Super villains were choses for missions based on their skillsets and likelyhood of danger to the public, if you follow the rules and survived your sentence was reduced to time served, and Waller honored that. The missions were often of a sensitive political nature, and because it took place in the greater DC universe, with a high likelyhood of encountering people or things with powers. Something goes wrong look what the super-villain terrorists did!
The idea of Harley Quinn (or anyone who goes to Arkham when stopped by Batman instead of Blackgate Penitentiary for that matter) being on Task Force X is just terrible.
It's more like they have...
- The two best marksmen in the world. (Deadshot and Captain Boomerang)
- An onna-bugeisha trained by some of the most dangerous men alive around and wielding a magic sword. (Katana)
- An actual metahuman, with enhanced strength, healing factor, claws... etc. (Killer Croc)
- Another metahuman, this time with Pyrokinesis. (El Diablo)
- A mostly normal woman (she's immune to most toxins and diseases) who has not only tangled with Batman and Robin, survived, and come back for more, but has survived betrayal after betrayal at the hands of the force of nature that is The Joker. Fuck, she HANGS OUT with the Joker and comes away alive. (Harley Quinn)
- And... Slipknot. Okay, they aren't all winners.
Any one of these people can fight off the ENTIRE police force of most cities. Some of them have.[DOUBLEPOST=1471030039,1471029985][/DOUBLEPOST]
I do agree with this though. Harley isn't stable enough to stay on-mission without making things drastically worse.
HQ was likely there purely for more marketing power thanks to her consistently rising popularity, I would figure. Plus, she's an excuse to shoehorn in a Joker cameo.
I for one have always been a fan of her being a lot more stable if Mr. J isn't around. It's what made her and Ivy work.
One thing about that video: the stated offer for a mission with the Suicide Squad is you get 10 years off your sentence for a successful mission.
Updates for Justice League: Ben Affleck and Geoff Johns worked together on extensive script rewrites, both to adjust the tone and to fit continuity for what Affleck wants to do with his solo Batman movie.
Making major adjustments before having a finished cut of the movie? What a novel concept. I'm all for keeping Snyder in the role of making sure the movie looks pretty and nothing more. Justice League could still get screwed over once the editing phase hits, but everything I'm hearing sounds like good news.
Making major adjustments before having a finished cut of the movie? What a novel concept. I'm all for keeping Snyder in the role of making sure the movie looks pretty and nothing more. Justice League could still get screwed over once the editing phase hits, but everything I'm hearing sounds like good news.
I've heard that's what Christopher Nolan does with his films. It's why, as far as I know, few of his films have deleted scenes. He makes all those adjustments and changes in the script before filming anything. I don't know how true that is, but a filmmaker friend of mine told me that once.
I've heard that too.
It's okay to have scenes you end up getting rid of to tighten up the movie. It's a different problem to completely rearrange a movie after the fact because you waited until it was done to take a look at it, or chop up a film so much that it becomes a confusing mess. I admire Nolan's filmmaking style, but I can't expect that from everyone. The way the DCEU is going, competence seems to be the bar to reach for.
That works both as a Mars Attacks reference and a Suicide Squad one. Perfectly written Jared Leto Joker laugh.
Also,
Saw Suicide Squad this afternoon. Jared Leto's Joker sucks so bad. So bad.