I think at this point I have all the skins I really want in general. I just recently got Paragon for Rein, though I also have Bloodhardt so it's a tough choice.
[Gaming] Overwatch (#boycottblizz)
- Thread starter Ravenpoe
- Start date
The two Reinhardt skins I wanted was Stonehardt and Bloodhardt, and thankfully I got lucky and got both of them early on!
Though that new one coming out with the new map, sexy AF.
Holy shit those are amazing, I hope I've got some coin to blow when they release.
Genji was such a pain in the ass even in the hands of a mediocre player that I'm glad to see him get slammed with the Nerf Bat.
GasBandit
Staff member
Seems pretty accurate. I'd just like to say I think all "combos" that rely on animation cancelling are bullshit and animation cancelling should be done away with as a rule.
Honestly most of the changes I think are perfectly fine. He simply had too much mobility, way more then even Tracer, due to the fact he can vertically move with double jump, wall-climb, and dash. They actually attempted to balance him in beta by lowering his health to Tracers, but people bitched so much they put his old health back and instead nerfed his damage. You know he used to have a bleed on his dash? Yeah, fun stuff.
The animation cancel should have also never been a thing. They should have made sure to fix it after they realized people were abusing the Widowmaker animation cancel. Hopefully they got all of them at this point.
The animation cancel should have also never been a thing. They should have made sure to fix it after they realized people were abusing the Widowmaker animation cancel. Hopefully they got all of them at this point.
Blizzard is inept at balancing, in other news the sky is blue and water is wet.
Yeah. Everyone knows competitive players only pick the 3-star characters. That's how they got to be competitive, right?
--Patrick
The goal is always to have something that can be viable at both the low end and high end to some degree. Right now Mei is "Okay" at the low end and "Bad" at the high end, so they would rather have her "Good" at the low end and "Okay" at the high end. Honestly the buffs are not even that huge, the extra radius will be annoying, but I can understand it since it's very rare I get stuck in a Mei ult these days. The times I have gotten stuck was because she threw it at my shield and I suddenly became the epicenter of the ult on Rein since I blocked it down to my feet. Now I might have a little more of a chance of escaping it if she wiffs it far behind me.
GasBandit
Staff member
I've probably said this in ventrilo a lot lately, but just to get it down in print, the balancing that I think needs to happen now is:
1) Remove Mei's icicle attack. Possibly increase snowblower damage slightly to compensate, but IMO the queen of crowd control doesn't need to get solo kills.
2) Junkrat's grenades need to do full damage to himself (IE, when used point blank or bounce off a wall and come back to him), and the damage off his jump mine needs to be removed. Lucio and Pharah don't do damage on their knockbacks, so it'd be brought in line.
3) Ryugatekiwagofuckyourself needs to build slower (Sorry, Snuffles).
4) Tracer's rewind should not affect her health.
and finally,
5) Pharah might need 25-50 more health. Maybe 25 armor or 50 normal health (hey, she looks like she has armor). I've rarely heard the complete audio of "Justice Rains from Above" in like the last month, without it being cut off by "AUGH" in the middle. 25 armor would make S76 and other low-damage-spamming heroes less her counter, but high damage range such as Widowmaker and McCree still be very effective against her.
All that, of course, aside from removing any and all animation cancelling.
1) Remove Mei's icicle attack. Possibly increase snowblower damage slightly to compensate, but IMO the queen of crowd control doesn't need to get solo kills.
2) Junkrat's grenades need to do full damage to himself (IE, when used point blank or bounce off a wall and come back to him), and the damage off his jump mine needs to be removed. Lucio and Pharah don't do damage on their knockbacks, so it'd be brought in line.
3) Ryugatekiwagofuckyourself needs to build slower (Sorry, Snuffles).
4) Tracer's rewind should not affect her health.
and finally,
5) Pharah might need 25-50 more health. Maybe 25 armor or 50 normal health (hey, she looks like she has armor). I've rarely heard the complete audio of "Justice Rains from Above" in like the last month, without it being cut off by "AUGH" in the middle. 25 armor would make S76 and other low-damage-spamming heroes less her counter, but high damage range such as Widowmaker and McCree still be very effective against her.
All that, of course, aside from removing any and all animation cancelling.
I'm sure her ult is really meant to be like Zarya's, not really intended to do damage itself, just more of a signal for your team to come in and pick off the helpless victims.
2) I have done jump mine without getting damaged already?
3) we'll see once the data start coming in
4) No. Keep the health.
5) I got no problem with this one. Pharah could use a little extra survivability.
And yes, anything that relies on animation canceling is by definition a bug, not a feature.
--Patrick
1) Mei should get to keep her icicle attack. Otherwise she has no long range.
2) I have done jump mine without getting damaged already?
3) we'll see once the data start coming in
4) No. Keep the health.
5) I got no problem with this one. Pharah could use a little extra survivability.
And yes, anything that relies on animation canceling is by definition a bug, not a feature.
--Patrick
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1. Without the icicle Mei has zero range and would be 100% useless. If you're getting frozen that's on you, not her headshots.
2. Do you mean damage to other people with the mine? Personally I think Junkrat is mostly fine, he's one of the only Defense heroes worth picking in any situation thanks to his toolkit.
3. Hanzo has zero mobility outside of wall climbs and his arrow hitbox has been somewhat fixed. The Ult is pretty slow-moving and anyone with a dash/mobility cooldown can easily dodge dragonfaces.
4. Tracer can be oneshot by most hard-hitting abilities and if you stop her movement she melts. Losing the HP regen from her rewind kills what is basically the biggest plus in her toolkit for harassment and best uses of her Ult (which is nearly impossible to use well without taking some hits).
5. This one I don't see a huge issue with, I think her hp/armor should equal to 250. She has to be up in the mess or near it as often as Reaper, almost, and if not is almost always out in the open.
All in all it really feels like your proposed fixes are coming from a place of "why did he kill me" more than "this character is OP."
Animation cancelling, like Patr said, is definitely a bug and should be gone. I admit I've abused it with Roadhog, but I wouldn't be mad if they fixed that sort of thing all around.
GasBandit
Staff member
Bullshit. She's winning sniper duels against hanzo right now (pre-hanzo-rebuff).
Yes, damage to other people with the mine needs to go away.
It is literally building every 30 seconds. Hope you don't like standing on the payload if the enemy has a hanzo. Cry me zenyatta-shaped tears about his mobility.
Tracer one-shots are a myth. The only thing that could do that is Roadhog (even pharah rockets only do 120 on a direct hit), and his crap is slow moving and widespread. There is no counter for a skilled tracer. None.
I am the lone fucking voice of reason in this screeching insane balance shitshow.[DOUBLEPOST=1471906673,1471906499][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, the force guy was right - nerfing Lucio's speed burst is going to do shit for him being a must-pick. Speedboost is too essential a game changer, especially on KOTH maps (90% of the time whoever gets there firstest with the mostest keeps the point). Nothing will change his "must pick" status other than pretty much completely removing the speed buff, at which point there's no point in picking him at all.
If Mei is killing snipers that tells me either the sniper is an idiot sitting out in the open, or that at the absolute worst her icicle travel time needs to be a bit longer. Removing it completely is an awful idea.
GasBandit
Staff member
Another idea I bounced off Terrik a few weeks ago was that frozen players take reduced damage.
That doesn't seem so bad, maybe not a huge bump but like 15% or so. If a well-used Mei Ult leaves you vulnerable to her whole team that's not any worse than Zarya's, really, so it could still work out. Roadhog/76/McCree or even Junkrat/Pharah could easily help melt people at that point.
GasBandit
Staff member
Or another idea, make her M1 no longer completely freeze enemies, instead, get them to a maximum of, say, 80% snared (moving at 20% speed and apply that to turn speed as well) and slightly boost the damage. Only the ult would do 100% frozen.
Or change the icicle to do much less damage but cause the first hit to 50% snare and the second hit (within 3 seconds) to completely freeze.
There are a number of ways to potentially fix Mei.
Of course, simplest of all would be just to delete her.
Mei is fine, just don't get close. She doesn't have any mobility and if she ice blocks just walk away.
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As for junkrat, if you take the damage off his mine you nerf his damage too much. I personally don't want them to up his grenade damage.
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They can't remove Junkrat's mine damage. Doing so would eliminate the trap+mine combo, and then they'd have to think up some other way to make him annoying.
Mei is good for what she's supposed to be...a character who picks off stragglers. If you're away from your group and Mei catches up with you, Mei is supposed to win if she catches you unawares...assuming you can't get away from her, that is. Last night I played as Lúcio against a team that had a Mei. By timing my sonic push or my ult just right, she was absolutely useless at keeping us off the payload. I could keep her pushed back frequently enough that she couldn't freeze anyone, and even when she did, I would either pop my ult or raise the volume before I got frozen, and the payload heal + either one was enough to keep her from getting kills. In my opinion, the way to deal with Mei is to get her health down to where she is forced to use the ice block, and then two-shot her when she breaks out or, as @Snuffleupagus says, you run away. If she heals full, she'll be far behind, and if she breaks the ice block early, her health will be low and block will be on cooldown so you can finish her off.
--Patrick
Mei is good for what she's supposed to be...a character who picks off stragglers. If you're away from your group and Mei catches up with you, Mei is supposed to win if she catches you unawares...assuming you can't get away from her, that is. Last night I played as Lúcio against a team that had a Mei. By timing my sonic push or my ult just right, she was absolutely useless at keeping us off the payload. I could keep her pushed back frequently enough that she couldn't freeze anyone, and even when she did, I would either pop my ult or raise the volume before I got frozen, and the payload heal + either one was enough to keep her from getting kills. In my opinion, the way to deal with Mei is to get her health down to where she is forced to use the ice block, and then two-shot her when she breaks out or, as @Snuffleupagus says, you run away. If she heals full, she'll be far behind, and if she breaks the ice block early, her health will be low and block will be on cooldown so you can finish her off.
--Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
All arguments like this hinge on you being in a situation where walking away from Mei isn't surrendering an objective to her team.
Oh, I've even toned DOWN my Junkrat nerf. Previously I said "no damage on the mine AND the grenades explode on first contact with any surface/player." No more bouncy area denial. His shit is just too easy.
Oh he's plenty annoying without it. Just spam grenades in the other team's general direction and rack up the kills.
I realized something else while in QP the other day.
Any other character can shoot through your own team. But not Ana. Try that with Ana and you just overheal your teammate. Get stuck behind a Roadhog and the rest of your team can accidentally die because you can't shoot around his fat butt. You practically have to ult him just so he'll run off into the fray and give you a clear shot at everyone else.
--Patrick
Ugh, series of games where I feel like I'm playing well, but my team is a bunch of windowlickers.
Seriously, last night was just horrible. I joined a series where no matter what we did it just felt like my team didn't care to do anything and everyone was a coward.
My most frustrating was switching to Reinhardt and leading a charge through a side corridor on Anubis. Was followed by a Mercy, Roadhog, and Reaper. I go up and block two Bastions so hopefully the Roadhog can hook one and I can get an opening to charge the other (I had a good spot to cover till he wasted his full clip). I notice no hook coming so I think I didn't give him a good shot, so I try to be more aggressive pushing forward but the Bastions by that point were being supported by a Symmetra. They killed me, and I notice I was completely alone with the enemy, my three allies from earlier chickened out or something because they had left and moved all the way back to the choke, leaving me to die.
After a good five steamroll losses in that series, I left it and started a new game, which was an amazing one in which we lost one round but defeated them handily the next two rounds. I decided to leave the game on a high note and logged off to go to sleep after that.
Yeah, played two games as 76 where I was the only one standing in the objective 90% of the time, and then another as Zarya where I felt like I never needed my ally shield, just my own. Gave up after about 6 games and only one win. Easily the worst night of the game I've had.
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Should also mention I am dreading the Hanzo changes now. Last night I had to deal with three different "Hanzo mains" that were annoying and nearly impossible to kill during my losing streak. It's just going to be harder come patch day. I am going to have to adjust the approach.
Spent some time last night grouped up with a former coworker (who is lvl 172), didn't do too badly. I might be better than I thought.
At one point he group chats (me&him), "This Mercy is F'n useless."
Match ends.
I get bronze in healing as Bastion...with 165.
I'd say he was right.
--Patrick
At one point he group chats (me&him), "This Mercy is F'n useless."
Match ends.
I get bronze in healing as Bastion...with 165.
I'd say he was right.
--Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
I really don't understand why they are reversing their position on Hanzo. They admitted he was too powerful, they commented on the video everybody saw where he got a head shot around the corner, but now, nevermind, fuck all that shit! Hanzo Hanzo Uber Alles!
Unless you had 4 healers, and Mercy didn't medal, I'm not seeing the correlation.