[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.
Seems Wonder Woman's reception and success has given the Warner Bros heads reason to doubt themselves, maybe question whether they really know what they're doing. The new game plan has changed from "super-reactionary announce anything and everything that might work" to "wait and see."
Essentially, a lot of announced projects are being put on pause until after Justice League. Some of them, like Aquaman, are already underway and so can't, but a bunch of the announcement pile will have to wait. New perspective seems to be for Justice League to be the establishing movie going forward instead of Man of Steel. Some retooling is going on behind the scenes, with Justice League determining how heavy WB wants to get into future projects, as well as gauging audience interest in particular characters determine what films they'll make, similarly to how Harley Quinn's reception from Suicide Squad got a greenlight for Gotham City Sirens.
I don't think deciding future projects that way is best, but any limitation is best. More interesting is the idea that Justice League will be the springboard based on its tonal shift. They really want a movie that people will like, will go see, will not react like, as Redlettermedia put it, like it's another Zack Snyder Nightmare. If anyone can pull that movie out of a ditch, it's Whedon. I really don't see it yet, but it's not impossible.
Essentially, a lot of announced projects are being put on pause until after Justice League. Some of them, like Aquaman, are already underway and so can't, but a bunch of the announcement pile will have to wait. New perspective seems to be for Justice League to be the establishing movie going forward instead of Man of Steel. Some retooling is going on behind the scenes, with Justice League determining how heavy WB wants to get into future projects, as well as gauging audience interest in particular characters determine what films they'll make, similarly to how Harley Quinn's reception from Suicide Squad got a greenlight for Gotham City Sirens.
I don't think deciding future projects that way is best, but any limitation is best. More interesting is the idea that Justice League will be the springboard based on its tonal shift. They really want a movie that people will like, will go see, will not react like, as Redlettermedia put it, like it's another Zack Snyder Nightmare. If anyone can pull that movie out of a ditch, it's Whedon. I really don't see it yet, but it's not impossible.
Reshoots went on in April, maybe May, which implies they still had a ways to go with post-production. It's the post- time table that'll really dictate what they can and can't do. We've seen about five minutes of movie, with no idea how much of that will end up in the final film.
I'm not saying anyone should get their hopes or expectations up--hell no. Right now, Wonder Woman is really just a standalone film and a standalone success. You could see it without needing to watch any DCEU movie that comes before or after (the hint of Bruce Wayne in there suggests a Batman that's closer to the Justice League cartoon version than the psycho from BvS). I'm just saying, there's stuff going on behind the scenes, and for once it just might not be bad stuff.
Didn't Suicide Squad go through considerable reshoots to make it more "fun"? Which was then subsequently one of the major criticisms against it? In that the it didn't feel like the same movie at points?
So my own thoughts on the Wonder Woman movie:
So first, I want to say that Gal Gadot was perfectly cast. I thought she did a terrific job of making the character come to life, and I'm glad my impressions of her in B v S were correct. I also thought a lot of the action was fantastic (although too many 'slowdowns'). I came out of the movie generally enjoying it. The rest of my family who have seen it all that it was just awesome.
Criticism time!
I wasn't really into most of the beginning. The whole Themyscira section of the movie didn't grab me, and I was actually starting to get concerned when watching the film. I thought it was a little too full of typical movie cliches. You know, the disapproving mother, the training in secret, the discovery of training which had apparently been happening for years but just now was being discovered even though they seemed to be training in broad daylight right out in the open, and then, naturally, the death of the mentor. Of course.
Also, I didn't 100% understand her mother's beliefs or motivations.
1. She clearly believes Ares is still around. Or not. I think. At least the movie seems to imply that she believes it enough to not want to tell Diana anything about her origins.
2. She does not trust/care that Diana can actually kill Aeries as a 'weapon to slay gods'.
3. 'Men'--or I guess, non-Amazons, aren't worth the effort in saving.
Was then, trying to make sure Diana wasn't trained or knowledgeable in her origin (even though she flat out says- u r not amazonian lol), just a giant middle finger to Zeus' last saving through against Ares in an effort to protect Diana or what? Also what was the basis that knowing how to fight or knowing her origins would 'allow Ares to find her'? Even if it was true, would the Final Fantasy victory fanfare play over the island's loudspeakers if the world turned to ash due to Ares influence and Themyscira was left untouched?
Where is Themyscira anyway? So he's in Turkey and flew away right? First, hope he was flying to a nearby allied base, because he isn't flying to England in that thing. Second, that might put it somewhere in the Mediterranean or Black sea, but if that were the case, you kind of assume people would be running into the island all the time throughout history. Perhaps its Amazonian policy to simply shoot anyone on sight--but I kind of wish they had said something to that effect. It gets more muddied when they sail from Themyscira and right into London. There is a 0% change he flew anywhere near the English channel in that plane (and if Themyscira was in the English Channel, that would raise more questions), but they just seem to sail there overnight. I mean, I guess we're going to have to go with "magic" here.
Also, why can she never come back again? Was that established in the movie at all? It is just something you nod your head and say, 'Well yes, if you leave the secret island of Amazon warriors, you can't ever return for reasons. Makes sense". I mean, in the DCAU I recall her going back to Themyscira on more than one occasion, so I don't know if this is its own movie lore coming out, or is there something I don't know?
I thought they should have done more with the WW I setting. I don't like the fact that the essentially turned the Germans into Nazi stand-ins. Having omg gas as the doomsday weapon was silly, when gas was being used by all sides for years. It wasn't a German-only thing. There wasn't some "doctor poison" running around--and it's highly unlikely that even if the gas in the movie had been used--that it would have done anything to win the war, especially since we're apparently a day or so away from signing an armistice. Also, Luddendorf, what did they do to you? Historical Luddendorf was a much more interesting person (oh, and anti-Nazi prior to his death), than the Saturday-morning cartoon villain they used him as in the movie. In fact, it was over the top enough that I saw the "twist" coming a mile away. The whole "super gas" he sniffed to give him a chance vs Wonder Woman was a bit silly too.
I had issues with Ares as well. I liked the whole "I'm behind the scenes feein' ur thoughts" aspect, but other parts of the character fell short. I don't like the fact that he's apparently looked like a British Lord since...well forever. That cheeky mustache peeking out from behind that helmet was hilarious in the wrong way. They should have went all the way and gave him a shadowy face and red eyes.
I thought Chris Pine did pretty well, although I kept seeing Captain Kirk. The other supporting characters were OK, but not very much was done with them. Perhaps much didn't need to be done with them.
Other than that, I thought it was pretty good
Criticism time!
I wasn't really into most of the beginning. The whole Themyscira section of the movie didn't grab me, and I was actually starting to get concerned when watching the film. I thought it was a little too full of typical movie cliches. You know, the disapproving mother, the training in secret, the discovery of training which had apparently been happening for years but just now was being discovered even though they seemed to be training in broad daylight right out in the open, and then, naturally, the death of the mentor. Of course.
Also, I didn't 100% understand her mother's beliefs or motivations.
1. She clearly believes Ares is still around. Or not. I think. At least the movie seems to imply that she believes it enough to not want to tell Diana anything about her origins.
2. She does not trust/care that Diana can actually kill Aeries as a 'weapon to slay gods'.
3. 'Men'--or I guess, non-Amazons, aren't worth the effort in saving.
Was then, trying to make sure Diana wasn't trained or knowledgeable in her origin (even though she flat out says- u r not amazonian lol), just a giant middle finger to Zeus' last saving through against Ares in an effort to protect Diana or what? Also what was the basis that knowing how to fight or knowing her origins would 'allow Ares to find her'? Even if it was true, would the Final Fantasy victory fanfare play over the island's loudspeakers if the world turned to ash due to Ares influence and Themyscira was left untouched?
Where is Themyscira anyway? So he's in Turkey and flew away right? First, hope he was flying to a nearby allied base, because he isn't flying to England in that thing. Second, that might put it somewhere in the Mediterranean or Black sea, but if that were the case, you kind of assume people would be running into the island all the time throughout history. Perhaps its Amazonian policy to simply shoot anyone on sight--but I kind of wish they had said something to that effect. It gets more muddied when they sail from Themyscira and right into London. There is a 0% change he flew anywhere near the English channel in that plane (and if Themyscira was in the English Channel, that would raise more questions), but they just seem to sail there overnight. I mean, I guess we're going to have to go with "magic" here.
Also, why can she never come back again? Was that established in the movie at all? It is just something you nod your head and say, 'Well yes, if you leave the secret island of Amazon warriors, you can't ever return for reasons. Makes sense". I mean, in the DCAU I recall her going back to Themyscira on more than one occasion, so I don't know if this is its own movie lore coming out, or is there something I don't know?
I thought they should have done more with the WW I setting. I don't like the fact that the essentially turned the Germans into Nazi stand-ins. Having omg gas as the doomsday weapon was silly, when gas was being used by all sides for years. It wasn't a German-only thing. There wasn't some "doctor poison" running around--and it's highly unlikely that even if the gas in the movie had been used--that it would have done anything to win the war, especially since we're apparently a day or so away from signing an armistice. Also, Luddendorf, what did they do to you? Historical Luddendorf was a much more interesting person (oh, and anti-Nazi prior to his death), than the Saturday-morning cartoon villain they used him as in the movie. In fact, it was over the top enough that I saw the "twist" coming a mile away. The whole "super gas" he sniffed to give him a chance vs Wonder Woman was a bit silly too.
I had issues with Ares as well. I liked the whole "I'm behind the scenes feein' ur thoughts" aspect, but other parts of the character fell short. I don't like the fact that he's apparently looked like a British Lord since...well forever. That cheeky mustache peeking out from behind that helmet was hilarious in the wrong way. They should have went all the way and gave him a shadowy face and red eyes.
I thought Chris Pine did pretty well, although I kept seeing Captain Kirk. The other supporting characters were OK, but not very much was done with them. Perhaps much didn't need to be done with them.
Other than that, I thought it was pretty good
That there was no Doctor Poison in real life WWI is the weirdest criticism I've seen for this movie.
fade
Staff member
Geez. "I do not hate women, but here's a list of reasons I hate women." What.[DOUBLEPOST=1496848177,1496848040][/DOUBLEPOST]
Eye-wagging Milhouse.gifI have seen Wonder Woman.
Someone fetch me my Underoos!
Something was brought up as a plot hole
Did Wonder Woman retcon BvS? Not that I'm complaining.
BvS has Wonder Woman saying she told the world to get rekt for 100 years, but WW implies she has been saving the world all that time
Did Wonder Woman retcon BvS? Not that I'm complaining.
And the little bitch is using a machine that would not have been possible without Ada Lovelace...
GasBandit
Staff member
He was pretty much HNIC of the german army, along with Von Hindenburg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Ludendorff
Huh. In Canuckistan, that would make him Don Cherry.
This, the character I saw in Wonder Woman wouldn't have just fucked off doing nothing for 100 years. She would have done exactly the opposite. Just another reason Snyder's cynical, gloomy, mopey fucking super heroes are the fucking worst.
Latest fanwank diatribe I read on BvS was about how its true depth was about the flow of information and how that's the power in the world of today, not superheroes ... which, no shit? We don't go to a Superman movie to see how the real world has to handle problems. And you know what movie did that idea better? Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Not only does it have that subtext, but it's a great movie. Unlike BvS.
Justice League reportedly set for 3 months of “significant” reshoots
Well ... a couple of Wonder Woman characters will be in flashbacks and I have a feeling that decision was only made because of this past weekend. This isn't just reshooting existing scenes; Whedon is writing new material.
Three months is beyond normal production time. I have a feeling there will be multiple, very diverse cuts of this movie later on considering they already had most of the movie shot before. I'd wonder if they're going to make the release date, but WB will push for it. There's no knowing if this will be another Suicide Squad mess or another Rogue One success.
I'm not saying Whedon can magically fix everything, but his worst is better than Snyder's average.
Alien Resurrection would have words with thee.
Against Suckerpunch?
In all fairness, really Whedon writing new scenes isn't him fighting back Snyder crap. Snyder didn't write BvS. Now, he was given control of the project by WB, so it was his responsibility to see a slopfest script and demand better, but that didn't happen because Snyder only cares about his visuals and whether the script gives him those moments. Still, he didn't write it. Whedon's really severing us from David Goyer. I know Goyer wasn't on Justice League, but I mean ... we're in better hands than Goyer.[DOUBLEPOST=1496893145,1496893022][/DOUBLEPOST]I guess there's no point fussing over it right now; the cameras just started rolling again. We're not going to know shit for a while yet.
Right; I mean, look at the Lord of the Rings material. For a lot of those reshoots, they couldn't even get the same actors at the same time due to scheduling and had to find ways to film around that.
That said, three months of reshoots is excessive. Rogue One reshot 40% of the movie. Fan4stic seemed to have changed half the movie. In Justice League's case, there's also the unusual circumstance of the director leaving between production and extensive reshoots, with another director coming in to write/create new material.
The only other example there I can think of is Superman II, when Richard Donner was fired halfway through filming because the producers hated him. I like Superman II, but it really shows there's a complete clashing. The other director, Richard Lester, was known more for his comedy. I think the hokier, sillier bits of the movie came from him. He went on to also do Superman III.
Should i be offended that you assumed i didn't look him up to confirm he was real before i posted?
Yeah, that's another good example. And I'm not saying the end result will be a good movie. Movies like Brave and The Good Dinosaur that had big creative shifts aren't bad movies but they are a little weak compared to other Pixar movies. I don't expect Justice League to come out clean, but maybe they can Frankenstein a decent movie together.
This news has driven BvS fans pissy with denial or disdain. Well, I say driven, but the DCEU fan base seems to exist in a pre-pissed state. Like pre-cooked frozen meatballs--no need to cook them, just gotta heat them up.
All three of them?
GasBandit
Staff member
I just like to be complete for the studio audience.
I was browsing the trades section at my local comic store yesterday and there was a gaping empty space on the shelf. To one side were a couple Azarello volumes and one copy of Rebirth vol 2. Everything else, the other Rebirth copies, older Rucka, Perez, other Axarello, Earth One--all the rest of their Wonder Woman books had been purchased. I thought it was cool; it's nice to see her getting popular like this.
Dude... that's just JCM's canned laughter...
So a cinema had a "women only" viewing of Wonder Woman, and had goodie bags for the ladies.
Now, come on, what kind of goodies would you give to an all-female audience?
...
....
No, not tampons, they didn't make it quite that cringey...
...
....
Yeah, not much better or arguably worse, though. Kitchen sponges, squeegee, window wash and a coupon for diet pills.
Now, come on, what kind of goodies would you give to an all-female audience?
...
....
No, not tampons, they didn't make it quite that cringey...
...
....
Yeah, not much better or arguably worse, though. Kitchen sponges, squeegee, window wash and a coupon for diet pills.
Swing and a miss
Dick pics.