Whine about Empyrion thread

[PatrThom]

I have a base out there in PVP space, surrounded by four other large bases, all tricked out to the max with turrets and ammo.

I think I’ve been there.
But I’m not hunting and I don’t feel like I have something to prove, either. The server population is small enough that we don’t actually have to compete for resources, so PvP is currently really only a problem if someone decides to make it a problem.

ship design theory is really limited to two schools of thought - the "giant hunk o' cheese" school, and the "tiny maneuverable mosquito" school - and Gas' two hour long stomping by XPA shows which one works and which doesn't, rather decisively

Gas’ stomping was not a question of ship design, it was one of tactics. Three ships bring three times the firepower, the ability to attack from three directions simultaneously, and, most importantly, since turret AI will focus exclusively on whichever target it acquired first until that target is either dead or out of range, this allowed them to take turns with one soaking damage while the other two had free rein to pick off Gas’ defenses. The video’s cuts and music hide their coordination, they hide the taunting that kept Gas engaged, and they (mostly) hide the pilot’s tactic of cutting ship’s power whenever he needed a “rest” since that would force Gas’ turrets to switch and pick a new target (because turrets apparently won’t attack a “dead” ship). XPA won because they played Gas, because they brought more ships, and because they used undocumented game mechanics to their advantage.

—Patrick

 

[Dave]

They don't core their ships, they just turn them off?

 

[GasBandit]

They don't core their ships, they just turn them off?

Different fight. They decore the CV that they use to attack planetary bases. This fight was in orbit, CV on CV. I don't think Pat is accurate (turrets will continue to attack a powered off target), but turning off your ship DOES reduce the range at which its target marker shows up on enemy screens, so it makes it harder to keep track of in a 4-way furball, thus allowing him to drift away unnoticed when my turrets start targeting something he doesn't want shot, as I turn my attention more to the target markers that are still lit up bright red.

My point was, they were NOT "tiny maneuverable mosquito" ships, they were big hunk'o'cheeses, just slightly more compact than my cheese.

 

[PatrThom]

Also it is quite possible to defend a base against multiple attackers BUT the current meta requires that all static defenses be augmented by mobile defenses, i.e., if a base gets attacked...well, someone has to go defend it and go flank the attackers or something. There are just too many ways to punish a static target right now, the best a base can do is to delay the attackers until help arrives.

I don't think Pat is accurate (turrets will continue to attack a powered off target), but turning off your ship DOES reduce the range at which its target marker shows up on enemy screens, so it makes it harder to keep track of in a 4-way furball, thus allowing him to drift away unnoticed when my turrets start targeting something he doesn't want shot, as I turn my attention more to the target markers that are still lit up bright red.

I admit I haven’t tested it, but there’s that part in the video at 1:16 where it says, “initiated forced stop” and I can’t think that was done by accident (though he doesn’t dive into the menu to do it sooo...Y key?). My assumption was that it was to get the guns to ignore him for a bit.

—Patrick

 

[GasBandit]

Also it is quite possible to defend a base against multiple attackers BUT the current meta requires that all static defenses be augmented by mobile defenses, i.e., if a base gets attacked...well, someone has to go defend it and go flank the attackers or something. There are just too many ways to punish a static target right now, the best a base can do is to delay the attackers until help arrives.

Nope. Attackers attack, defender moves to flank, attackers move back out of base turret range so that the flanker is now unsupported. Flanker retreats to base defenses, lather, rinse repeat. I lived it. Believe me.

As long as bases are just CVs that can't move, they're basically sitting ducks because the mobile attackers get to define where the combat takes place. It might be different if bases had turrets that had much longer range than CVs, and specifically designed to counter them, but for the time being, the only true defense for a base is to be 30+km out into space in hopes of never being found.

I admit I haven’t tested it, but there’s that part in the video at 1:16 where it says, “initiated forced stop” and I can’t think that was done by accident (though he doesn’t dive into the menu to do it sooo...Y key?). My assumption was that it was to get the guns to ignore him for a bit.

That just means he hit Y by accident. He was trying to type "TALLY HO" in chat.

 

[PatrThom]

It might be different if bases had turrets that had much longer range than CVs, and specifically designed to counter them

But...they do.
...though in Eleon's mind(s), they must think +100-200m range is sufficient advantage.
For one base.
Against an unknown number of enemies.

--Patrick

 

[PatrThom]

[HVs] get stuck on cacti (that don't even provide wood when cut down

A while back, I screencapped this, just because I wanted to post it, for similar reasons:

Yes, that's a multi-kiloton CV being held in midair as a 2nd class lever by a single cactus. Archimedes would be proud.

--Patrick

 

[Gared]

I didn't get a screenshot of it, but my class 5 CV was once perfectly held in the air by two small, spindly trees. I couldn't get the HVs back in it so I had to dock them to the ramps of the hangar bays instead.

 

[PatrThom]

It takes two iron ingots to make one steel plate, but the blueprint factory requires me to put in 5 steel plates before it gives me credit for one iron ingot.
And yes, this applies when carried to scale. A stack of 999 steel plates credits me 200 ingots, so it's not just some kind of rounding error.

--Patrick

 

[PatrThom]

Scratch-built my PvE base out in space (cuz I like trying new things).
Got pretty much everything I wanted to fit in it and placed in a pleasing manner (aesthetically and practically).
Took a couple of days getting everything right, so didn't oxygenate it or plant anything because I kept having to knock out a wall to get things in and out and didn't want to waste air/kill plants.
Finally get everything in order tonight. Even the lighting.
Go to plant my first plant.
Can't.
Turns out my entire base is 90deg off vertical so can't place a repair bay and can't plant any of my 81 grow plots FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU....!!!

Well at least now I know how to fix it after I did the same thing to my CV. Blueprint/paste/rotate/reblueprint and now my blueprint is oriented properly, just have to multitool all the components out of the old base and feed them to the factory to cook up a new one SUCH A HASSLE RRrrrrrrrrrgghhh...

--Patrick

 

[GasBandit]

Scratch-built my PvE base out in space (cuz I like trying new things).
Got pretty much everything I wanted to fit in it and placed in a pleasing manner (aesthetically and practically).
Took a couple of days getting everything right, so didn't oxygenate it or plant anything because I kept having to knock out a wall to get things in and out and didn't want to waste air/kill plants.
Finally get everything in order tonight. Even the lighting.
Go to plant my first plant.
Can't.
Turns out my entire base is 90deg off vertical so can't place a repair bay and can't plant any of my 81 grow plots FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU....!!!

Well at least now I know how to fix it after I did the same thing to my CV. Blueprint/paste/rotate/reblueprint and now my blueprint is oriented properly, just have to multitool all the components out of the old base and feed them to the factory to cook up a new one SUCH A HASSLE RRrrrrrrrrrgghhh...

--Patrick

Always hold O before you build in space. ALWAYS.

 

[PatrThom]

Always hold O before you build in space. ALWAYS.

I did! That’s why this is so frustrating!
While trying to line up the starter block for maximum sunlight (because free power, duh), the game probably rotated me while I was turning, because in this game you can pitch all you want without a problem, but the moment you use the mouse to try to yaw, for some reason it will simultaneously roll you no matter HOW careful you are to move the mouse in a perfectly straight line.

Whatever, I’m getting good enough now at replacing cores in creative that it’s almost easy now. Plus after disassembling the one base and feeding it to the factory, my spawn time was only one second. Still gotta set up the light colors and signals and stuff, but if Eleon doesn’t want to enforce “right-side-upness” when placing the starter block, then they need to at least make it easier for the structure’s owner to fix. Something that doesn’t require Creative mode/GM powers, that is.

—Patrick

 

[Gared]

I love the idea of base thrusters, which can only be used in space, and can only propel you at .5m/s, but can be used specifically to fix shit like this.

 

[PatrThom]

I love the idea of base thrusters, which can only be used in space, and can only propel you at .5m/s, but can be used specifically to fix shit like this.

Or y’know, just being able to replace the core but in the correct orientation, which would be even easier to code.

—Patrick

 

[Gared]

Or y’know, just being able to replace the core but in the correct orientation, which would be even easier to code.

—Patrick

But not nearly as fun for players.

 

[PatrThom]

Thing is, the thrusters thing would not fix the issue with grow plots/repair pads, because every structure has its own internal “up” reference, and rotating the structure does not affect this. My reblueprinted base is now facing the exact same (non-upright) direction/orientation as it was before, the only difference now is that the core started out in a different orientation.

—Patrick

 

[Gared]

So, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that offline protection devices and land claim devices are useless now - because I had three bases in PvP territory with both devices installed, and now I have one disco and two completely destroyed bases.

 

[Dave]

I had to get online and check. I'm safe.

 

[GasBandit]

Offline Protection definitely is working, but I can't figure out if land claim devices are working properly or not.

 

[Gared]

Offline Protection definitely is working, but I can't figure out if land claim devices are working properly or not.

They may be, I was just used to the OP being good for 5 days, not two. We were offline long enough for our bases on Hoth to be without protection again.

 

[GasBandit]

They may be, I was just used to the OP being good for 5 days, not two. We were offline long enough for our bases on Hoth to be without protection again.

THAT is odd. It's always been 48 hours.

Also, I think I remember something about the land claim devices only working if they are placed above ground. Maybe like turrets.

 

[Dave]

But hasn't Shadows been on during that time? I thought that members flagged everyone.

 

[Gared]

But hasn't Shadows been on during that time? I thought that members flagged everyone.

Shadows was offline for 7 days during Hurricane Florence. Apparently I've been misremembering things though, because I could've sworn it was good for 5 days at one point. Ah well... guess I'll just eat this one.

 

[GasBandit]

I just had it confirmed by Taelyn and Rexxxus (the official server admins and EAH authors) that Land Claim devices, like turrets, will not function if you put them below ground.

 

[Gared]

I just had it confirmed by Taelyn and Rexxxus (the official server admins and EAH authors) that Land Claim devices, like turrets, will not function if you put them below ground.

They could've put that in the frickin' description. There's absolutely zero information on how those damn things are supposed to work.

Edit: Do they have to be outside for everyone to shoot at too? Fuck's sake.

 

[Dave]

I completely forgot about Shadows being gone from the hurricane. I wonder when the bases got trashed.

 

[GasBandit]

They could've put that in the frickin' description. There's absolutely zero information on how those damn things are supposed to work.

Edit: Do they have to be outside for everyone to shoot at too? Fuck's sake.

I agree, the implementation of Land Claim devices has been very poorly handled.

 

[GasBandit]

I completely forgot about Shadows being gone from the hurricane. I wonder when the bases got trashed.

The first was several days ago, the most recent (the disco) was yesterday.

 

[Gared]

The first was several days ago, the most recent (the disco) was yesterday.

Yes, and I'm still confused about how the disco worked out, since we both logged off before they started taking my turrets off. Did the OP shield not go up because the land claim device was buried? They either put the devices back or didn't disturb them during their assault, so it wasn't that they were missing, by any stretch of the imagination. Even if they flew in from below, so they missed all of the anti-aircraft turrets, the shield should have prevented them from getting in.

 

[GasBandit]

Yes, and I'm still confused about how the disco worked out, since we both logged off before they started taking my turrets off. Did the OP shield not go up because the land claim device was buried? They either put the devices back or didn't disturb them during their assault, so it wasn't that they were missing, by any stretch of the imagination. Even if they flew in from below, so they missed all of the anti-aircraft turrets, the shield should have prevented them from getting in.

They said they waited around a while for you to show up, purposely tripping your alarm to see if they'd come defend. Remember, there's also a 5 min delay when you log off before OP kicks in... and it looks like Aislynn had a conversation with them during it all, and then I guess when you logged off, they charged in and got it in under 5 mins. Not impossible, I suppose, granted how ridiculously fragile hangar doors are.

 

[Dave]

VAC?

 

[Gared]

They said they waited around a while for you to show up, purposely tripping your alarm to see if they'd come defend. Remember, there's also a 5 min delay when you log off before OP kicks in... and it looks like Aislynn had a conversation with them during it all, and then I guess when you logged off, they charged in and got it in under 5 mins. Not impossible, I suppose, granted how ridiculously fragile hangar doors are.

Honestly, the biggest issue I have in all of this was that we specifically told them we couldn't defend it, and they kept trying to taunt us into coming out anyway. I was prepared to just hand the whole thing off to them - after all, a found base is a dead base - I was just pissed because I'd literally just paid the 2 million credits to establish the teleporters. But, with Aislynn's laptop pulling at most 20 fps right now (and usually something closer to 3), and me by myself without a decent PvP ship on planet because my tank spent 10 minutes stuck to an invisible rock that didn't exist anymore, there was no way we could fend them off. We hadn't even had time to get the other four base cores up (otherwise the top of the mountain they perched on wouldn't've been available).

I couldn't care less about the physical contents of the base - they're all pixels in the wind at the end of the day - it was the "come out and fight and we'll let you keep your base, but if you don't we'll call you pussies and take everything you have." Then they painted everything pink, renamed the base, and left. I put up with that sort of bullshit behavior long enough, and I'm not overly keen in continuing to subject myself to it in my attempt to garner entertainment.

 

[PatrThom]

VAC?

Captain Durall, et al.

—Patrick

 

[GasBandit]

IE, VAC.

 

[PatrThom]

IE, VAC.

Thanks, I wasn’t sure (since I’m not in game atm).
I do plan to set up in PvP, but not until I can drop an entire setup all at once. These guys keep showing up all, “It looks looks ypu are trying to get established. Be a real shame if something happened before you were firmly entrenched,” and I want to make sure that if they try, they’re going to get all the challenge they seem to want to handle.

—Patrick