[Movies] The Upcoming Movies Trailer Thread

[Ravenpoe]

What makes you think it’s racism at all? He’s got a funny name. Just like other examples in this very thread. Get offended by actually offensive things not just perceived ones. Intent is a real thing.

A few things.

One: I don't think anyone has stated they are offended. Nick said he was tired of an awful joke, I and others agreed. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not offended, and telling people what they should or shouldn't be offended by is a straw man at best since offence is an emotional reaction and not one you really have control over.

Two: Intent. It's lack of intent that makes this casual racism and not just racism. If someone's old Grandpa refers to all Asian people as chinks just because he grew up hearing that word and thinks that's what they're called, that doesn't make it not racist. The racism is baked into the society.

I don't know why you're getting very defensive over this dumb joke, but no one is saying you are racist for saying it. No one's trying to cancel grandpa Dave. No one is even saying you can't still make it, instead we're pointing out the reasons why maybe you shouldn't want to, and if you still insist after that then fine, maybe Netflix will give you a special about it

 

[Shawn]

Because this is LITERALLY what you're doing. You just defined what you're doing. You think because you don't throw an obvious slur in there, isn't suddenly NOT racist? You are making fun of not being able to pronounce his name correctly. If you we actually making fun of his work, you'd be calling him "M. Night ShALLMYFILMSUCK" or "M. Night SaWTHATTWISTCOMING" or "M. Night ONETRICKPONY". "Shaymalamadingdong" has nothing to do with his work and everything to do with his "weird" last name.

The lack of cleverness of the name is not in dispute. Just the intent. It's a bullying cheap-shot either way.
I am sorry that I upset you. Based on things you mentioned you clearly have a right to be upset over this matter.
I think you're right and there should be no need for it. Being clever about it would have made it sound more individual targeted and less in-general targeted.

 

[Celt Z]

I can't believe I've spent two pages defending a guy when I'm the only person here he's actually negatively affected in real life. You guys don't like his work? That's fine. But he prevented me from getting to my dorm, getting to my classes, getting to my job, getting to my apartment...twice! The man follows me and messes up my life! I should have the ax to grind!

But yeah, in the future, let's mock people's shitty choices, not how they were born.

...Avatar sucked.

 

[Shawn]

I can't believe I've spent two pages defending a guy when I'm the only person here he's actually negatively affected in real life. You guys don't like his work? That's fine. But he prevented me from getting to my dorm, getting to my classes, getting to my job, getting to my apartment...twice! The man follows me and messes up my life! I should have the ax to grind!

I have clearly not heard this story. That's insane.

 

[GasBandit]

I can't believe I've spent two pages defending a guy when I'm the only person here he's actually negatively affected in real life. You guys don't like his work? That's fine. But he prevented me from getting to my dorm, getting to my classes, getting to my job, getting to my apartment...twice! The man follows me and messes up my life! I should have the ax to grind!

But yeah, in the future, let's mock people's shitty choices, not how they were born.

...Avatar sucked.

M. Night Shyamaroadblock

 

[PatrThom]

I don't feel like his last name is being lampooned because of its/his national origin or race. I feel like his last name is being lampooned because it uniquely identifies him among his field, he is a famous person who frequently draws criticism and/or derision, and because of its obvious similarity to the substituted term (which is not itself a slur), which is a reference to a well-known nonsense song lyric.

Making fun of someone's name has to have been one of the earliest forms of ad hominem attacks to ever emerge, and training that skill starts early, in the crucible of elementary school, where every possible negative permutation/association of your name is dug up and thrown in your face in an attempt to yes, "get a rise out of you." Is it racially motivated? Well, technically I suppose it is, if only because specific names (especially familial ones) tend to have their origins with specific cultures/regions, BUT I absolutely cannot see this coincidence as some kind of guarantee that all name lampooning as a whole MUST somehow at its core be racially motivated, no exceptions.

Are there people who deliberately misname him because they hate all brown people and refuse to say his actual name because they don't want it crossing their lips? Probably. Just like there are people who deliberately misgender someone and then follow it up with a loud "Oops! Ha haa! <big ol' knowing wink>," or yes, people who take the very questionable step of writing their little microaggressions openly and in tangible form on a coffee cup (where it can be used against them later? Not very smart!). As a few people have already said, unless the misnomer has BLATANTLY been constructed to be racist (like that coffee cup), we should be applying some kind of mens rea test before automatically assuming racism must have been a factor.

tl:dr; I agree he's being made fun of, but because he's a famous director, not because he's a famous brown director.

--Patrick

 

[Shawn]

I don't feel like his last name is being lampooned because of its/his national origin or race. I feel like his last name is being lampooned because it uniquely identifies him among his field, he is a famous person who frequently draws criticism and/or derision, and because of its obvious similarity to the substituted term (which is not itself a slur), which is a reference to a well-known nonsense song lyric.

Making fun of someone's name has to have been one of the earliest forms of ad hominem attacks to ever emerge, and training that skill starts early, in the crucible of elementary school, where every possible negative permutation/association of your name is dug up and thrown in your face in an attempt to yes, "get a rise out of you." Is it racially motivated? Well, technically I suppose it is, if only because specific names (especially familial ones) tend to have their origins with specific cultures/regions, BUT I absolutely cannot see this coincidence as some kind of guarantee that all name lampooning as a whole MUST somehow at its core be racially motivated, no exceptions.

Are there people who deliberately misname him because they hate all brown people and refuse to say his actual name because they don't want it crossing their lips? Probably. Just like there are people who deliberately misgender someone and then follow it up with a loud "Oops! Ha haa! <big ol' knowing wink>," or yes, people who take the very questionable step of writing their little microaggressions openly and in tangible form on a coffee cup (where it can be used against them later? Not very smart!). As a few people have already said, unless the misnomer has BLATANTLY been constructed to be racist (like that coffee cup), we should be applying some kind of mens rea test before automatically assuming racism must have been a factor.

tl:dr; I agree he's being made fun of, but because he's a famous director, not because he's a famous brown director.

--Patrick

Better explained than mine. Thank you.

 

[Celt Z]

I don't feel like his last name is being lampooned because of its/his national origin or race. I feel like his last name is being lampooned because it uniquely identifies him among his field, he is a famous person who frequently draws criticism and/or derision, and because of its obvious similarity to the substituted term (which is not itself a slur), which is a reference to a well-known nonsense song lyric.
...tl:dr; I agree he's being made fun of, but because he's a famous director, not because he's a famous brown director.

I think you're missing the point a bit. He's not above criticism or derision. He doesn't get a pass because he's one of the only brown directors we have. But mispronouncing someone's last name and calling it "criticism"?-Is leaning towards mocking his ethnicity and not what he does. And while maybe the person doing it has no idea that is can be racist, it doesn't mean it didn't start that way and should continue. How many times have people said they grew up using terms like "jewwed" or "gypped", etc. and had no idea they were meant to insult an entire group of people? Just because we do something without ill intent doesn't mean we should keep doing it.

This isn't something that just happens to Shaymalan. It's happens to Indian people a lot. A LOT. Mr. Z works at a company that is, like 95% ethnically Indian and he has to book travel, stay arrangements, etc. almost daily, and he runs to people doing shit like that on a way too frequent basis. Are all these people intending to be racist? Mostly not. Usually having a laugh at tripping over a very long and complex last name. But is it still insulting? Absolutely.

The whole point of this was to say, whether you mean it to or not, just making fun of someone's last name for it's ethnic sound isn't something we should do anymore. Be critical of the person and mock from that. Gas posted a good one above.

I have clearly not heard this story. That's insane.

I posted about this somewhere in the past, and it's not worth me hunting down because you got the jist. It was a weird coincidence that it happened twice. Short version: don't live in Philadelphia.

 

[GasBandit]

Short version: don't live in Philadelphia.

That just seems like a good solid piece of generic advise for a number of reasons.

 

[Tress]

"M. Night SaWTHATTWISTCOMING"

I agree with you in general, but I specifically had to say that this is delightful and I’m totally using it from now on. Thank you.

 

[PatrThom]

making fun of someone's last name for it's ethnic sound isn't something we should do anymore.

Agreed, and I addressed that. Mispronouncing his name is not constructive criticism, it is an ad hominem the same way someone might make fun of Ron Howard's baseball cap or Woody Allen's glasses. It is motivated by a desire to demean/deride the subject the same way someone might say "Sleepy Joe (Biden)" or "Moscow Mitch (McConnell)" because these are famous people and so they are in the very public crosshairs of anybody with something uncomplimentary to say about them. Is drawing a caricature of Woody Allen with extremely thick glasses racist because having thick glasses is a Jewish stereotype? The answer is a definite "maybe" depending on whether the intent/shorthand of showing him as "undesirable" in this way was to invoke that specific stereotype or merely to depict him as myopic (or just with ugly glasses, I guess). Like Shyamalan's name, it is a characteristic iconic to that specific individual. To me, calling him "Shyamalamadingdong" is functionally equivalent to calling him "Shyamawhateverthehellhisnameis." Personally, if I meet someone whose name I don't know how to pronounce and don't have any opportunity to find out before having to use it, I will do my best attempt even if it means murdering their name unto death, and I will rely on them to correct me if I am wrong, and then I will use the corrected version from then on. It only took 2 or 3 repetitions to learn how to properly say "Mukopadhyay" in college, and I have not forgotten how. I grew up around thousands of Poles, Chaldeans, Jews, and so on, and being surrounded by unpronounceable names is part of my heritage.

Again, no matter how I squint at this, I don't see the cause as derogatory to his ethnicity nor the ethnic origin of his name, I see this as derogatory to HIM, personally. The one specific person. MNS. The director. Not his family, relatives, country, etc. Just one guy. Mind you, I am leaving myself open to the possibility that there IS a big systemic racist undercurrent to what appears to me to be an ordinary malapropism, but if there is one, it's subtle enough that I haven't detected it as such anywhere I've seen it.

--Patrick

 

[drifter]

God, this thread makes me so tired.

 

[Celt Z]

I don't see the cause as derogatory to his ethnicity nor the ethnic origin of his name, I see this as derogatory to HIM, personally...if there is one, it's subtle enough that I haven't detected it as such anywhere I've seen it.

... I had no idea how to say it. And yes, there's a cultural element to that, because it's not a common name to me. But the times I've said "shamalamadingdong" out my mouth it's because the conversation turned to his movies, and I said "M. Knight shhhh.....uh.." and realized I was surely about to butcher his name. So I turned that into a cheap laugh

There's something these two statement that have something in common. Hmmmm... can't put my finger on it...

But let's take that out of here for a second. How often do you butcher Scorcese's name when his film suck? Spielberg's? Coppola? Scorcese and Coppola has the same amount of syllables as Shyamalan. Tarantino has more. Villeneuve? Kurosawa? I'm having trouble coming up with one director whom people change their name when they're talking about their latest failure.

And maybe you're right. It's just harmless ribbing and not at all disrespect for the man's "uncommon" name. Let's hear how that sounds in the wild:


Or maybe it's just because it's so commonplace to do it, most people thought it could be taken another way. Borrowed from an article from a few years ago:

It became so publicly accepted to mock Shyamalan that blatantly racist mispronunciations and mockery of his name were welcomed by the masses. An infamous Robot Chicken sketch doubled down on this shtick and gave their Shyamalan stand-in a stereotypical Indian accent (Shyamalan grew up in Philadelphia and has an American accent.) He's faced the kind of harsh cruelty and scathing public condemnation that simply doesn't happen to much less talented white dudes whose films bomb time and time again. It doesn't seem coincidental that arguably the most well-known Indian American director on the planet is subjected to this sort of nastiness in a way his white counterparts aren't.

What I don't understand is that from the beginning, the whole point is that, "Hey, while you don't mean it in a racist way, this kind of thing has racist origins and has been said to be racist, so we shouldn't do it" to the hill some people insist on dying on, which is "I, a white dude, don't see how this is racist and while other people might use it to be racist, I don't mean it that way, so it must be okay!". Like it never occurred to you, with all the garbage he puts out and all the things you could rightly mock him for, the first thing you go after how to pronouce his name?

 

[Vrii]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around "I make fun of his name as a criticism of his movies, obviously!"

 

[Ravenpoe]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around "I make fun of his name as a criticism of his movies, obviously!"

This run in the thread is at least a fantastic way to showcase why these things are so hard to change. People get defensive when they learn that maybe they're doing something hurtful, even if it's just a little. It's natural to think oh, I'm not racist, obviously I don't mean it as racist, therefor it isn't racist, and now my only defense is to pick a fight against those wrong people telling me that maybe, just maybe, there's some racism there.

And I'll be the first to admit that I'm guilty of the same thing. Everybody is. But I also think that once you move past that kneejerk defensive response, it's time to actually reflect, and ask yourself if there's actual merit in the criticism. Our society as a whole is built on racism, oppression, othering, etc, and it can seem like a lot of work to change that. So much, that I get why some people would rather just ignore what they perceive as small stuff. But that's the trap, that's how it propagates, it's so insidious that it infects the lexicon and perfectly well meaning people repeat it like the virus it is without ever giving it any thought, and even defending it when it's pushed back against.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around "I make fun of his name as a criticism of his movies, obviously!"

Right? Like, at least "what a twist!" is saying SOMETHING about his work. Although he doesn't really do "twists" anymore like he started his career with.

What criticism is there behind "M Night Shaymalamadingdong"?

 

[drifter]

 

[PatrThom]

How often do you butcher Scorcese [et al]'s name when [their] film[ s] suck?

/I/ don't, but I'm pretty sure I've seen Tarantino's name 'shopped onto a box of pizza rolls on imgur. I know Coppola's name has been butchered as "cupola." I have seen more than one person refer to Spielberg as "Steven Schlemielberg." Are these racist? That last one probably is, but the Coppola and Tarantino ones probably aren't racist other than via the convenience that their Italian names unsurprisingly sound remarkably similar to other Italian words*. Besides, you don't make fun of Tarantino's name, you make fun of his foot fetish. You don't make fun of Nick Kyrgios' name for sucking at tennis, you make fun of his temper. So in an attempt to end my derailment of this thread, I'll state the following and move on:

• Making fun of someone's name is not always racism. They could just have a name that's easy to make fun of (e.g., Rodger Bumpass).
• Sometimes, making fun of someone's name absolutely IS racism, and this is unequivocally A Bad Thing and should be corrected.
• In cases where it could conceivably be either/both, the speakers intent should be determined before throwing any rotten tomatoes.

--Patrick
*Which, yes, could be considered by some to be "racist." But is it? Is it really? Yes, I really am asking this as a serious question, one that deserves its own discussion (but not in this thread).

 

[Vrii]

• In cases where it could conceivably be either/both, the speakers intent should be determined before throwing any rotten tomatoes.

The point that's hopefully being conveyed here is that, even in situations where the person doing it has no intention of racism, it can be a shitty thing to do. I don't think that anyone on the side of "it's fine to make fun of his name" is taking that stance because they hate Indian people and want to convey that through their shitty, low-effort jokes, and I don't think anyone else is interpreting their words that way either. The point is that his name is registering for those people as easy to make fun of because it's an Indian name and sounds very different from "English" or "American" names - the message being conveyed by targeting it is, to some extent, "your heritage is silly and deserves to be made fun of" which...is pretty transparently shitty, right?

Intent matters, but so does self-reflection and a willingness to learn and grow when someone points out that what you're doing is hurtful, even if only slightly and only to some people.

 

[figmentPez]

Damsel


I am intrigued.

 

[evilmike]

Dead Boy Detectives

 

[figmentPez]

The Garfield Movie


Everything about this trailer looks mediocre. I have no opinion on the movie, but holy shit as soon as I saw that Chris Pratt is voicing Garfield... UGH, social media is going to be flooded with people complaining about it. I'm so sick of hearing it.

 

[Piotyr]

Honestly, Pratt works as Garfield just fine, and is the least objectionable thing about that movie trailer.

 

[GasBandit]

At least it's not Seth Rogen.

 

[Shawn]

I’m already convinced it’s going to be a far better movie than any of the live action ones.

 

[bhamv3]

Wouldn't it have been more appropriate for Jon to be eating lasagna in the restaurant?

 

[Shawn]

Wouldn't it have been more appropriate for Jon to be eating lasagna in the restaurant?

He appears to be eating everything in the restaurant. I'm guessing when he gets to the lasagna he's going to have a scoobie snack moment.

 

[figmentPez]

Merry Little Batman


This is the weirdest version of Batman I've seen in a while.

 

[chris]

Merry Little Batman


This is the weirdest version of Batman I've seen in a while.

It's on my Christmas Movie list now.

 

[Celt Z]

Merry Little Batman


This is the weirdest version of Batman I've seen in a while.

While it doesn't have the biting meta commentary of The Lego Batman Movie (and let's be honest; it's going to be hard to ever top that), it seems like a cute, kid-wish-fulfillment adventure. I'm ok with Goofy Batdad.

 

[Shawn]

They drop-kick Coyote Vs Acme to oblivion and keep this?

 

[AshburnerX]

They drop-kick Coyote Vs Acme to oblivion and keep this?

Apparently the people who made it get to shop Coyote Vs ACME around to different people, in order to find someone who will put it out.

 

[figmentPez]

While it doesn't have the biting meta commentary of The Lego Batman Movie (and let's be honest; it's going to be hard to ever top that), it seems like a cute, kid-wish-fulfillment adventure. I'm ok with Goofy Batdad.

I'm more bothered by the art style than the Goofy Batdad, though the combination of the two is why I find it so different from other Bats. But I can be picky about what animation styles I like, and I try not to let my criticism of an art style keep me from enjoying a show.

 

[Celt Z]

I'm more bothered by the art style than the Goofy Batdad, though the combination of the two is why I find it so different from other Bats. But I can be picky about what animation styles I like, and I try not to let my criticism of an art style keep me from enjoying a show.

It reminds me of a children's book, rather that more traditional comicbook design.

 

[Shawn]

It reminds me of a children's book, rather that more traditional comicbook design.

This. But i agree with Pez that it’s not something I’d want as an animation style. It feels cheap and the designs are distracting. I’m sure I’ll give it a try as the story sounds like it could be fun, but I wish they put more effort into the look of it.