So I'm trying to rid myself of my 4e books...

[coolbeans]

But I have to agree that magic users got a major buff is spell usage with 4e. Usually 1st level mages get 1 level spell (3 if you have high int) same with cleric but with Wis and you are done (per rest) and have to rely on your crappy combat skill or good RP to participate.

Until you levelled up and became a GOD OF DESTRUCTION in comparison to those crappy fighters and rangers and things, Evans spiked tentacles of forced intrusion ftw (can you ID that reference?)

Also you cant use your familiar to deliver touch attack spells, I miss my taser ferret

Like I said, its a fun board game, but not a patch on the previous iterations.

 

[Mr. Lawface]

In the 4e games I have played, I have had some of the best rp in any game I have ever played. However, this probably had to due with the fact that I was playing with much more mature, experienced players than usual.

All this deep rp would end the minute combat started. It was like playing two completely different games, one of deep interactions with others in a fantasy world and one a tactical wargame. When rp was attempted in combat, it often broke down as some powers characters used were difficult or impossible to explain in character.

I don't remember the difference between ooc and ic to be quite so jaunting in 3.5.

 

[Shawn]

RP is an odd concept, because sometimes the best RP doesn't come from following the rules given in a book. This makes one wonder if we need ANY edition whatsoever to successfully RP. The answer is that if you want a rule system that counts for failure and successes within the game you probably do.

But where do successes and failures matter the most? Combat. That's where 4th edition excels in my opinion because it's made to make combat quick and uncomplicated. Whereas in 3.5 it would take hours for a single combat, 4th edition can take an hour tops if the players are on top of things.

Sure there are non combat rolling such as for skill challenges, but those are one of the few things about 4th that I do not like. I feel they have too much potential to take away from RP, unless they are only used as an outline for a string of role-playing encounters.

 

[RealBigNuke]

If your DM is starting you above 3rd or so level, casters are fun!

4 halfling sorceress battle plan: Summon four level one animals, when the enemy horde runs up against them have your familiars(weasels or bunnies, I'd hope) and have them all unleash burning hands into the masses simultaneously. Fluffy bunny and cutie munchkin deathsquad ftw.

One thing I loved in 3rd ed was going into a fight with a character that sucked at combat and coming out on top due to scrappy movie hero wits from doing things like playing the environment(roll under a cart, idiot pursuer tries to follow, strike the axel and crush him. Run up a wall and drop an explosive on the guy below me and not take any damage, that kinda thing). I feel like I can't do that so much in fourth ed because my character is automatically a 'striker' and stabs about as well as any other striker by default. And he has points in 'thievery' so he's a perfect utility rogue too, without trying.

My gripe is the same as stated before - no non-combat characters.

Again, I don't hate 4th ed, it's a very fun and pretty well balanced board game. One of my favorite experiences in all dnd was pissing off my DM by being a fey fey warlock and just solving all of his puzzles through rampant and abusive use of teleport. But I do like 3rd ed a lot more as a fantasy rp system.

Of course, gurps is better still

 

[Mr. Lawface]

I don't know where the quicker combat in 4e is coming from. I've had combats in 3.5 last an hour or more when the players knew exactly what they were doing. I've had the same exact thing happen in 4e. I've had incredibly on top of it players, who had brilliant strategies and always knew what they wanted to do on their turns, but I've had sessions that consist almost entirely of one combat.

My group has complained about the length of battles in 4e on multiple occasions. I don't remember if we did the same thing with 3.5, as we played it a while ago.

 

[coolbeans]

I guess whats been said previously is that the roleplaying is determined by the quality of players and DM, I just feel that 3-3.5 encouraged a bit more non-combat stuff, more condusive to roleplaying.

Oh and I'll echo rolemaster as the evilness of all roleplaying games.

Those crit tables were freaking hideous

"the orc stabs at you with a spear"

roll

"He hits"

roll

"and crits"

roll

"piercing your..."

roll

"left"

roll

"testical"

"You collapse, receive medical attention within....."

roll

"5 minutes, or die from shock"

 

[Deschain]

Hmm.

Human Cleric L10 Cha 18 - Reliquary Holy Symbol - Turn Undead: 3 +4cha + 2symbol + 8feat = 17
Human Feat: Extend Spell
1st Level: Persistant Spell
3rd Level: DM[Persistant Spell]
6rd Level: Extra Turning
9th Level: Extra Turning

5th level spells:
Spell Resistance
Monstrous Regeneration

DM[Persistant Spell] + Spell Resistance: 22 SR for 24 hours
DM[Persistant Spell] + Monstrous Regeneration: All damage is nonlethal, healed at 4HP/round. Can only be killed by acid or fire.

Hmm.

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------

Oh yea I'm going to give my opinion regarding why 4e is cool and innovative and new so we can all have enlightened discussions of our favorite gameplay system and mechanics over tea and crumpets.

Oh wait, no I'm not because it'll just degenerate into a trollfest.

 

[Chibibar]

well back to Dave's original post

4e IS a good system and easy system for new players to get into D&D. It is not a bad system for the "new WoW players" IMO. It is a good transition type game.

But if you are looking for more deep RP, there are many RP type games (and even older editions D&D) out there that kinda "flesh out" your character.

Of course if you are playing D&D on the competition level, then you would want to get into 4e since that is the main sourcebooks you will be using and no "homebrew" rules. This means you would want to have as much info at your finger tip as possible

 

[fade]

Hmm.

Human Cleric L10 Cha 18 - Reliquary Holy Symbol - Turn Undead: 3 +4cha + 2symbol + 8feat = 17
Human Feat: Extend Spell
1st Level: Persistant Spell
3rd Level: DM[Persistant Spell]
6rd Level: Extra Turning
9th Level: Extra Turning

5th level spells:
Spell Resistance
Monstrous Regeneration

DM[Persistant Spell] + Spell Resistance: 22 SR for 24 hours
DM[Persistant Spell] + Monstrous Regeneration: All damage is nonlethal, healed at 4HP/round. Can only be killed by acid or fire.

Hmm.

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------

Oh yea I'm going to give my opinion regarding why 4e is cool and innovative and new so we can all have enlightened discussions of our favorite gameplay system and mechanics over tea and crumpets.

Oh wait, no I'm not because it'll just degenerate into a trollfest.

Well it might if the 4e people didn't come out guns blazing with snippy language. It's like the people who didn't like 4e are somehow insulting the people who do personally just because they discovered they didn't like it.

 

[Allen who is Quiet]

Hmm.

Human Cleric L10 Cha 18 - Reliquary Holy Symbol - Turn Undead: 3 +4cha + 2symbol + 8feat = 17
Human Feat: Extend Spell
1st Level: Persistant Spell
3rd Level: DM[Persistant Spell]
6rd Level: Extra Turning
9th Level: Extra Turning

5th level spells:
Spell Resistance
Monstrous Regeneration

DM[Persistant Spell] + Spell Resistance: 22 SR for 24 hours
DM[Persistant Spell] + Monstrous Regeneration: All damage is nonlethal, healed at 4HP/round. Can only be killed by acid or fire.

no persisting Divine Might?

 

[Deschain]

Do I look like I'm made out of fucking turnings?

Best I could think of is going RSoP, picking up 4 more turnings, if I read it properly. That or spam nightsticks, which is pretty gay.

 

[Reverent-one]

Well it might if the 4e people didn't come out guns blazing with snippy language. It's like the people who didn't like 4e are somehow insulting the people who do personally just because they discovered they didn't like it.

No, it's insulting when people say that 4e is just a board game, or that you can't RP (or RP well), or that all the classes are exactly the same. If you don't like 4e, that's fine, but don't go making objective statements like that (note: the "you" here is a hypothetical you, not you, fade).

 

[Allen who is Quiet]

So awesome.

Also, one more anecdote from that one World of Synnibar session.

I used one of my class abilities to punch a dragon and give it cancer. I was invisible and it was chatting away with the more socially-specced party member. It realized it had cancer, told the person it was talking to that it would be right back, and then teleported away to go to the doctor to get the tumor excised.

While it was gone, we took its treasure and left. We got the description of the dragon coming back, seeing it had no hoard, and going "...Fuuuuuuuuuck."

 

[Jay]

Well it might if the 4e people didn't come out guns blazing with snippy language. It's like the people who didn't like 4e are somehow insulting the people who do personally just because they discovered they didn't like it.

No, it's insulting when people say that 4e is just a board game, or that you can't RP (or RP well), or that all the classes are exactly the same. If you don't like 4e, that's fine, but don't go making objective statements like that (note: the "you" here is a hypothetical you, not you, fade).[/QUOTE]

BUT THE BOOK TELLS ME THIS HAS TO BE THE WAY 4E NEEDS TO BE PLAYED, I CANNOT BEND! AARRGHGHHGHGHGHGHHGHGHHGHGHGHGHHGHHHH

 

[Krisken]

Wow. Just wow. There's almost nothing worth replying to in this thread. Congrats guys. This could be the most immature thread we've had in a while.

 

[Jay]

Really? You're easily insulted then.

Let's make sure we hold your hand next time.

 

[Krisken]

Really? You're easily insulted then.

Let's make sure we hold your hand next time.

Your trolling is weak sauce, sir. I argue with GasBandit. It takes more than a guy who complains about Koreans to get me upset.

 

[Reverent-one]

Wow. Just wow. There's almost nothing worth replying to in this thread. Congrats guys. This could be the most immature thread we've had in a while.

D&D Edition wars! More divisive and immature than political and religious discussions!

 

[Allen who is Quiet]

Other editions suck. You don't get your gold as experience? What shitty games.

 

[Rubicon]

2E has always been my favorite

 

[Krisken]

Wow. Just wow. There's almost nothing worth replying to in this thread. Congrats guys. This could be the most immature thread we've had in a while.

D&D Edition wars! More divisive and immature than political and religious discussions![/QUOTE]
Hey, it surprised me more than anything! I expect religion, politics, and race to be hotbed issues.

We should argue about whether the old White Wolf universe or the new one are better, too.

 

[Reverent-one]

Wow. Just wow. There's almost nothing worth replying to in this thread. Congrats guys. This could be the most immature thread we've had in a while.

D&D Edition wars! More divisive and immature than political and religious discussions![/QUOTE]
Hey, it surprised me more than anything! I expect religion, politics, and race to be hotbed issues.

We should argue about whether the old White Wolf universe or the new one are better, too.[/QUOTE]

...no, not that, anything but that!

*runs for cover*

 

[wana10]

aw yeah....'sup /tg/. nothing like edition wars to give a me a good laugh while at work.
btw, that ice cream anology really fits for the hack job gw gave csm with their latest codex. fucking companies always screwing with good things.
and all you 4e players, play a real game. if you are really that hard up for WoW play the real thing and leave dnd alone.
and all you 3.5/3e players, it doesn't do anything that adnd2 didn't already do better
and that one gurps guy, have fun in a system where a laser blast and a knife wound are treated the exact same except for a couple of words of dialogue.

risus for the win!!!!
:whatever:

 

[RealBigNuke]

Well it might if the 4e people didn't come out guns blazing with snippy language. It's like the people who didn't like 4e are somehow insulting the people who do personally just because they discovered they didn't like it.

No, it's insulting when people say that 4e is just a board game, or that you can't RP (or RP well), or that all the classes are exactly the same. If you don't like 4e, that's fine, but don't go making objective statements like that (note: the "you" here is a hypothetical you, not you, fade).[/QUOTE]

Okay, this thread's deteriorating pretty rapidly now, but I've got to throw in on this.

If someone says X sucks and is for idiots, and you like X, this is an insult against you. They're jerks.

If someone says X is okay but they liked Y a lot more, personally, this is not an insult. It wouldn't be an insult to you if they thought X sucked, either. If you are insulted by that, it's your own fault.

Also, screw this, I'm throwing out all our books and we're going to be playing GURPS Bunnies & Burrows now.

 

[Dave]

All because I don't like 4e?

 

[doomdragon6]

Dave: Changes worlds.

 

[Krisken]

All because I don't like 4e?

Yeah, you're a big jerk, and I hear your mom pees standing up, too.

 

[Rubicon]

All because I don't like 4e?

Yeah, you're a big jerk, and I hear your mom pees standing up, too.[/QUOTE]

[Johnny5]Your momma was a snow blower![/Johnny5]

 

[Deschain]

Hey guys, how do I make a paladin fall?

 

[RealBigNuke]

So a paladin was on his way to work when he started to feel like road raging. This was really strange to him because, well, he was a paladin, and very good about sticking to his oaths. However, after a few minutes he was practically frothing at the mouth in his automobile, laying on the horn and flipping off other drivers. Eventually, he stopped at an automotive shop and asked the repair guy what was wrong.

He walked over to the car, looked under it, then looked back up at the paladin.

"Well, boy, I see your problem right there." He said. "You got a shifting alignment!"

 

[Dave]

Hey guys, how do I make a paladin fall?

Have them going into battle and before they get there they find some greenskin children/infirm/injured. They know that if they kill them it's an evil act but if they leave them then it's very probable that the monsters will alert other combat-oriented bad guys and the party will be caught between opposing forces.

No matter what they do it's a bad choice and SHOULD cause a paladin to not want to do it. Make there be a number of the monsters so that tying up and the like is not an option. And if they resort to killing them, you should go into great detail about the way that the monsters died, pleading for their lives and trying in vain to run away. Have one of the other characters stop and start to argue.

Plan B:

Have the characters start to do missions for the Paladin's God. But what they don't know is that the orders are coming from a corrupt clergyman who is trying to sew seeds of discord. The longer the party does these tasks the more heinous the crimes they are committing become. Finally (after starting to drop hints) they are sent to outright murder someone. they think it's retribution or something but if they investigate at all find that it's not on the up & up. So they either kill the target or go back to the clergyman to confront.


These scenarios give a lot of chances for a goody-two-shoes to slip up.

Or just make the choices easier - if you do THIS (bad thing) you get THIS (great reward) and see if greed overcomes RP...

 

[AshburnerX]

This just in: Dave is racist against green people.

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

Hey guys, how do I make a paladin fall?

Have them going into battle and before they get there they find some greenskin children/infirm/injured. They know that if they kill them it's an evil act but if they leave them then it's very probable that the monsters will alert other combat-oriented bad guys and the party will be caught between opposing forces.

No matter what they do it's a bad choice and SHOULD cause a paladin to not want to do it. Make there be a number of the monsters so that tying up and the like is not an option. And if they resort to killing them, you should go into great detail about the way that the monsters died, pleading for their lives and trying in vain to run away. Have one of the other characters stop and start to argue.

Plan B:

Have the characters start to do missions for the Paladin's God. But what they don't know is that the orders are coming from a corrupt clergyman who is trying to sew seeds of discord. The longer the party does these tasks the more heinous the crimes they are committing become. Finally (after starting to drop hints) they are sent to outright murder someone. they think it's retribution or something but if they investigate at all find that it's not on the up & up. So they either kill the target or go back to the clergyman to confront.


These scenarios give a lot of chances for a goody-two-shoes to slip up.

Or just make the choices easier - if you do THIS (bad thing) you get THIS (great reward) and see if greed overcomes RP...[/QUOTE]

Plan C: Push him off a cliff.

 

[Allen who is Quiet]

One party member gets behind the paladin, the other pushes.

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

Show him some goblin porn?