A kid is suspended for pretending her finger was a gun at school

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Hylian

Hylian

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/04/taylor_trostle_13_accused_of_b.php


If you're worried about the sphincteric state of the American educator, this one will blow you through the roof. Taylor Trostle, a 13-year-old student at Bleyl Middle School in Texas, was playing cops and robbers with her friends at school...

Every kid has played this before. You pretend your finger is a pistol barrel, you run around chasing each other, and you say things like \\\\\"bam\\\\\" and \\\\\"pow.\\\\\" It's been a staple of playtime for American children ever since there was an actual America.

But a math teacher at the school claims Taylor pointed her very menacing finger gun in the teacher's direction. And that caused the teacher to fear for his/her life. So he/she ratted little Taylor out of making \\\\\"terroristic threats.\\\\\"

Alas, the principal of Bleyl suffers from terminal sphincterism too. He decided to suspend Taylor for three days for her nefarious acts of finger terrorism.

Under the school rules, a terroristic threat is akin to assault, lewdness or selling dope on campus. Now the 13-year-old honor student is stuck with a blemish on her record, which makes her mom furious -- while she's not busy being incredulous that administrators could be this damn dumb.

\\\\\"I mean, terroristic threat, to me that's a serious statement,\\\\\" Kristin Trostle told ABC-13. \\\\\"That's one of the most serious things you could say to somebody.\\\\\"

In related news, engineers admit they've been unable to loosen the tight asses of either educator, despite the use of hydraulic tools and heavy explosives.
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Shakey

Shakey

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

When you do nothing you wonder how someone could have overlooked the warning signs. When you do something you are overreacting. It's a 3 day suspension, big deal.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

Shakey said:
When you do nothing you wonder how someone could have overlooked the warning signs. When you do something you are overreacting. It's a 3 day suspension, big deal.
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I thought you had to actually do something bad to get suspended.
 
CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

Would it be over reacting if you did it to a six year old in kindergarten?

---------- Post added at 03:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 AM ----------

Because ya know That's happened too either way, I think it's absurd over-reacting.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

Even after watching the news video, I don't know what side to come down on. I don't really see enough to really feel informed enough to know if this is bureaucratic crap or a manipulative little punk who is getting what she deserves. Yes, I'm serious, there are two sides to this story.

On one hand, the stupidity of Houston area schools and zero tolerance policies is legendary. One of my friends in high school was suspended for having asprin in her backpack. Other students have been suspended because they raised their arms to block punches when getting beaten up, and that was enough to count as fighting back. The rules are absurd.

On the other hand, I've run into some of the lying little insects who teachers have to deal with. I have no idea if this young lady is one of them, but they're like Eddie Haskell crossed with Mr. Hyde. They act all sweet as long as they're getting their way, but if you don't give them what they want they can become very nasty. Put them in front of their parents, or a TV camera, and they'll swear up and down "it was just a game. I'm a poor little goodie-goodie who being misunderstood for trying to have a little fun!" When in actuality they did threaten to kill the teacher, who was right to fear for her life.
 
Shakey

Shakey

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

TeKeo;374117][QUOTE=Shakey said:
When you do nothing you wonder how someone could have overlooked the warning signs. When you do something you are overreacting. It's a 3 day suspension, big deal.
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I thought you had to actually do something bad to get suspended.[/QUOTE]

What if it was the creepy kid who no one liked that did this? Would it have been different? Why should the honor student get a break? The kid should know better if he's that damn smart. It's just a stupid thing to do. Maybe they were overreacting, but really, it's a 3 day suspension in jr high. Who cares?
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

figmentPez said:
On the other hand, I've run into some of the lying little insects who teachers have to deal with. I have no idea if this young lady is one of them, but they're like Eddie Haskell crossed with Mr. Hyde. They act all sweet as long as they're getting their way, but if you don't give them what they want they can become very nasty. Put them in front of their parents, or a TV camera, and they'll swear up and down "it was just a game. I'm a poor little goodie-goodie who being misunderstood for trying to have a little fun!" When in actuality they did threaten to kill the teacher, who was right to fear for her life.
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If the only thing she did was point a finger in his general direction, which is what the written school report (apparently) claims, then I'm not remotely sympathetic to school's position.

Also, any school that actually has something called a "terroristic threat" meaning "assault, public lewdness, selling alcohol/drugs at school" should have their funding taken away and be charged with being criminally negligent in its mental care of the children under their supervision. That's fearmongering if there ever was.

---------- Post added at 12:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------
Shakey said:
What if it was the creepy kid who no one liked that did this? Would it have been different?
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Um, no. Why would it be?

EDIT: Meaning that, IMO, it makes no difference if it was the creepy kid or the honors student. Suspending someone for pointing a finger is just stupid. Calling it a "terroristic act" is such a grotesque abuse of power, language, and reality, it shocks me that these people are even considered acceptable as instructors of children.

---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

Do you guys want to move this to the political forum?
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

But he was going to shoot... and then the teacher would have been "OUT"... we, as a species, can't let stuff like that happen.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

Me too. I'm so disappointed.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

Well God knows there have never been honor students that have shot up a school.... oh yeah, what was yesterday's anniversary?
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

So you are saying the administration was right? Really?
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

sixpackshaker said:
Well God knows there have never been honor students that have shot up a school.... oh yeah, what was yesterday's anniversary?
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Is this a reply to me? Because I thought I made it clear it doesn't matter whether the student is an honors student or not.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

Dave said:
So you are saying the administration was right? Really?
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Look at it from the adult's point of view. A teenager walks up to you and points their finger in your face and makes the gun motion. That would be considered a threat anywhere.

Using the "t" word is a bit much. But it is a threat just the same.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

I *AM* looking at it from the adult's point of view. I think that adult is a fucking pussy who overreacted.
 
Shakey

Shakey

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

Dave said:
So you are saying the administration was right? Really?
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I think calling it a terroristic threat is over the top. But pretending to shoot anything in school? You really think that's OK?
 
Shakey

Shakey

A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

I read that. I still think pretending to shoot anything in school is just plain stupid.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
A kid is suspended for pretending his finger was a gun at school

But neither is it criminal nor is it terroristic.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Shakey said:
Like I said, calling it a terroristic threat is over the top. The kid isn't an innocent victim though.
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:facepalm:

Thank god the kid didn't make an actual threat. They might have nuked the school to contain the infection. [/sarcasm]

Part of the other problem here is that if the school is freaking out about stuff like this, actual bad stuff is probably going down without the teachers having the slightest idea because they're too busy freaking out about pointed fingers. 'Cause you know the drug dealers don't walk through the halls yelling, "Anyone want some pot? I've got a free period after lunch!"
 
Shakey

Shakey

So, because other bad things are happening we should ignore this?

And yeah, I'm sure that's exactly whats happening. All the teachers are so paranoid about fingers they ignore everything else. The school can't possibly deal with more than one student issue at a time.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
So this kid had no previous discipline issues, was a model student, no history of violence or threats. When does common sense enter into these equations? When do school administrators say to themselves, "This is stupid and alarmist!"?

They were not falling on the side of caution, they were overreacting in the name of fear. Not fear of the student or a shooting spree, but of lawyers and the media's representation of students run amok.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Shakey said:
And yeah, I'm sure that's exactly whats happening. All the teachers are so paranoid about fingers they ignore everything else. The school can't possibly deal with more than one student issue at a time.
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I think that's a valid question. If a teacher loses his shit because a student points her finger at him, I severely doubt his ability to control the rest of the students who aren't running around pointing fingers.
 
strawman

strawman

1. Students with no detectable problems have gone off the deep end.
2. There's no video, and quite frankly a written report cannot convey the actual situation in terms of facial expressions, events leading up to the incident, and the mental and emotional frame of mind the individuals were in at the time it occurred. If the teacher says, "I feared for my life" are we simply to dismiss that?
3. The teacher may not have a choice - they may be required to report even simple incidents like this, and the school may not have a choice - they may be required by policy to take certain actions. The policy may be poor, and unfortunately this is usually only detectable once an incident like this happens. Fortunately these incidents usually result in changes to the policy, and the granting of additional discretion to those required to report and/or act.
4. Like talking about bombs at the airport, there are simply some things you don't do/talk about/act out at school. The list may have changed over time, and the punishments may have changed, but it used to be that talking back at the teacher resulted in corporeal punishment. Is this any better or worse? Does it matter? You have the same rules at work. People get fired for talking about shooting their gun collection at the gun range because their cubicle neighbor is frightened. In many areas swearing in public, especially in the presence of women and children is still illegal and punishable.

We live in a society with sets of rules in given situations, and we are expected to live by them. They change over time, and right now we're in a particularly oppressive period, which will eventually swing the other way.

Chances are good the students are taught what behavior is allowed and expected at school. Threatening gestures are certainly disallowed.

If nothing else, this event will push the pendulum back in the other direction at least a little bit. And if her "permanent record" (laugh) includes this suspension, it was a small price to pay for having people look more critically at the policies of the schools.

But for those defending a student's _right_ to point their hand at a teacher and say, "bang" without repercussions, you're swinging way too far to the other extreme.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

First Lady Puffinstuff said:
1. Students with no detectable problems have gone off the deep end.
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By this argument, all kids should be locked up and kept separate. Because you never know when one of those ticking time-bombs might go off.

Also, not trying to imply that you're one of them, but this is also the sort of thing people love to say about the Columbine killers and that Virginia Tech guy, but for at least those two cases, that there were "no detectable problems" is definitively not true.

2. There's no video, and quite frankly a written report cannot convey the actual situation in terms of facial expressions, events leading up to the incident, and the mental and emotional frame of mind the individuals were in at the time it occurred. If the teacher says, "I feared for my life" are we simply to dismiss that?
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I would question it very, very, very hard. That's a serious accusation to make. In the real world, there can be legal consequences to making it inappropriately. Why should teachers or school administrators be exempt from that?

3. The teacher may not have a choice - they may be required to report even simple incidents like this, and the school may not have a choice - they may be required by policy to take certain actions. The policy may be poor, and unfortunately this is usually only detectable once an incident like this happens. Fortunately these incidents usually result in changes to the policy, and the granting of additional discretion to those required to report and/or act.
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Fair point. The fact that the school has a "terroristic threat" category may well have placed this issue far beyond the control of the teacher's intent in writing it up.

4. Like talking about bombs at the airport, there are simply some things you don't do/talk about/act out at school.
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Comparing a school administration's level of efficiency and competency to the TSA is not bolstering your argument. :p

If there was any indication that she made an actual threat, or had ever spoken about hurting anyone or herself, this would be completely different.

They change over time, and right now we're in a particularly oppressive period, which will eventually swing the other way.
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All the better reason to not meekly accept it.

Threatening gestures are certainly disallowed.
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The problem is the definition of threatening gestures. Don't forget it's because what she did is considered a "terroristic threat" that she received her punishment. If she got detention for goofing off, it wouldn't even be in the local paper. Do kids who get caught giving one another the finger also get 3-day suspensions? If they do, at least that would be consistent.

And if her "permanent record" (laugh) includes this suspension, it was a small price to pay for having people look more critically at the policies of the schools.
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Don't laugh, her permanent record is going to say, "terroristic threat" on it. That's the sort of thing that could actually follow someone, and someone who founds out about it is going to immediately assume that she threatened to blow up the school or brought a gun to show off at lunch.

But for those defending a student's _right_ to point their hand at a teacher and say, "bang" without repercussions, you're swinging way too far to the other extreme.
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We could very well be, it's true. But when a school is actually stupid enough to classify some of those things as "terroristic threats", I think the burden is on the school to justify their actions, not the student.
 
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